EHU leads

[sshortcircuit]

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-11 11:15 PM

 

sshortcircuit - 2013-08-11 8:01 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-11 7:27 PM

 

sshortcircuit - 2013-08-11 5:42 PM

 

Common sense out the window. Visited the Lamas Fair in St Andrews today which has fairground rides along the main street of St Andrews. Large generators supplying multiple attractions with cable along the ground with multiple connection. I am sure if the local authority thought there were dangers involved this would not happen and similarly with extensions on site. A real world out there

But, you do not earth a generator, do you?

 

No, however I did not pay attention to the earthing at the Lamas. The topic was about plugs and sockets being possibly damaged and exposing live terminals. Earthing of generators opens a large can of worms.

 

When I have been in Benidorm a small hall between El Raco and La Torretta is used as a studio for the Benidorm tv series and is the reception and hair dressing salon. When filming a large vehicle mounted generator similar to those at the Lamas stands outside the hall to provide additional power for lighting etc. It has a large earth spike driven into the ground, so in this situation it is deemed necessary.

Not sure if we're at cross-purposes or not, Hamish. I was responding to your comment above, about the apparently dangerous number of cable connections you saw at the Lamas fair.

 

I assume that since power stations use an earth path to complete their circuits, and generators do not, the risk to the public from the generator supplied cables/connections would be much lower than if the same supplies had been fed from the mains, as would generally be the case on a campsite.

 

I assume one would have to be in contact with both the L & N cables to receive a shock from damaged generator supplied cables/connectors whereas, being earthbound beings, one would only have to contact L to recieve a shock were the same arrangement mains fed. Is this not so? Sorry folks, it is a bit OT.

 

Way off here. I did not say that the cables at the Lammas Fair were dangerous. I was drawing a comparison with cable laid on the surface as in sites. I was also considering the suggestion that a damaged connection would provide a danger which it would whether the generator is earthed or not and similarly a damaged cable would.

Power stations do not rely on an earth to complete a circuit. The supply is normally distributed as three phase and a neutral/earth provided by a local transformer.

A neutral conductor is a live conductor and under certain fault condition will provide a lethal shock.

Sorry folks for going off tangent.

[derek pringle]

Hi All,

I carry 1 x 15mtr cable and 1 x 25mtr cable and although the 15mtr is by far used the most there are occasions when,especially in France, when we have needed all the cables in order to reach the ehu point.

Also, it should be said, when joining 2 cables together we always use a lockable waterproof connecting box. The times I have seen 2 cables connected and just lying on very wet grass and out in the rain frightens me.

cheers

derek

[sshortcircuit]

Derek, your plugs and sockets will have an IP rating normally IP44 or higher. The first digit indicates the level of protection that the enclosure provides against access to hazardous parts (e.g., electrical conductors, moving parts) and the ingress of solid foreign objects, 4 is for objects up to 1mm. most wires, screws, etc. The second digit indicates the level of protection that the enclosure provides against harmful ingress of water. 4 is water splashing against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect. Test duration: 5 minutes Water volume: 10 litres per minute Pressure: 80–100 kPa.

 

The higher the number the greater degree of protection.

 

From the above you will see that connectors left in damp or wet grass present no problems however left in a puddle is different.

 

An additional enclosure in a wet environment can do no harm, however I have seen connections enclosed in poly bag gradually filling up with water so a proprietary enclosure is ideal.

[breakaleg]

I took our 25 M cable and cut it into a one third and two third cable, being disabled and having to walk using two walking sticks I found the full cable was much too difficult and to heavy for me to handle, most sites I only need the shorter one very occasionally I have to use the longer one and I think only twice in six years did I need to join them. just spent a week away where there were no hook ups, it was great, really thought I would miss not having any leccy, just read more.

Pete

[Bulletguy]

Keithl - 2013-08-11 8:06 PM

 

If you ever consider joining mains cables then it would be wise to invest in one of these... Link.

 

 

Finally the reason bought hook up cables are made of 2.5mm2 cable is that they are made to a British Standard, BS EN 60309-2, and that states that 2.5mm2 cable must be used. If they are made of smaller cable they do not meet the BS and CANNOT be sold as hook up cables.

Here is a link to the C&CC website giving full details... Link to C&CC.

 

Keith

 

That's the answer I was looking for Keith.

 

Retailers in the UK are not allowed to sell the smaller lighter cable commonly found used by all European MH'ers. A case of H&S again. So there is absolutely no reason why someone should not purchase their own 'normal' main cable and make up their own lead.

 

I've watched vans more than double the weight of mine run over these cables on sites with no problem at all. Also, many come with their own cable coiler which, due to the smaller cable diameter, is also much smaller and neater than the big bulky jobs retailed in the UK. Think I might have a good look around Auchan at Dunkerque on the way back.

 

As for the "connector protector" thing.....i'd imagine you could use anything similar and save yourself a tenner!

 

 

[colin]

Why are you so obsessed with H&S?

It's not a H&S issue, UK hook up leads are british standard 16amp leads.

[Wirralian]

At my regular camp site in Spain every year I am having to connect an addition cable to my normal 25 metre one. I have looked into a lockable waterproof connecting box but have yet to find one that will accommodate our IP44 plugs and sockets.

 

I did post a thread last year on this subject and was pointed towards the plugs and sockets supplied by Screwfix. I seem to think that they were IP46 (?). When connected they were waterproof and I thought that I had at last solved my problem. But alas, the female plug when used without its male socket would not fit the male socket on the van. Its back to using 'gaffa' insulation tape and making sure that the connection is off the ground.

 

John

[Keithl]

Wirralian - 2013-08-12 9:56 PM

 

At my regular camp site in Spain every year I am having to connect an addition cable to my normal 25 metre one. I have looked into a lockable waterproof connecting box but have yet to find one that will accommodate our IP44 plugs and sockets.

 

John

 

John,

 

You obviously have not read my post on Page 1 of this thread...

 

Go Outdoors sell exactly what you are looking for, a lockable waterproof coupling box that will take a blue 16A plug and socket and for only a tenner.

 

Keithl - 2013-08-11 8:06 PM

 

If you ever consider joining mains cables then it would be wise to invest in one of these... Link.

 

It will comfortably take a blue 16A plug and trailing socket, adds a further degree of waterproofing and is lockable to keep prying fingers out. For a tenner surely worth the investment.

 

Keith.

[derek pringle]

sshortcircuit - 2013-08-12 8:54 AM

 

Derek, your plugs and sockets will have an IP rating normally IP44 or higher. The first digit indicates the level of protection that the enclosure provides against access to hazardous parts (e.g., electrical conductors, moving parts) and the ingress of solid foreign objects, 4 is for objects up to 1mm. most wires, screws, etc. The second digit indicates the level of protection that the enclosure provides against harmful ingress of water. 4 is water splashing against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect. Test duration: 5 minutes Water volume: 10 litres per minute Pressure: 80–100 kPa.

The higher the number the greater degree of protection.

From the above you will see that connectors left in damp or wet grass present no problems however left in a puddle is different.

An additional enclosure in a wet environment can do no harm, however I have seen connections enclosed in poly bag gradually filling up with water so a proprietary enclosure is ideal.

 

exactly and the problem is not knowing when or where a puddle will appear.

cheers

derek

[Brian Kirby]

Then buy IP67 connectors (they are available), and use where the cables will join.

[Tracker]

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-13 7:00 PM

 

Then buy IP67 connectors (they are available), and use where the cables will join.

 

Or leave the wretched lead at home and use gas and 12 volt which work perfectly well on all modern vans!

[rupert123]

Tracker - 2013-08-13 7:04 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-13 7:00 PM

 

Then buy IP67 connectors (they are available), and use where the cables will join.

 

Or leave the wretched lead at home and use gas and 12 volt which work perfectly well on all modern vans!

What! If we do that how are we going to run our cooker electric hotplate, our electric heating, electric water heater,TV, chargers for phone, camera, ipod, computer, electric razor, electric toothbrush, ereaders our electric kettle, electric toaster sometimes all at once. I could fit a few thousand pounds worth of batteries, solar panels, wind farms etc but why would you bother when for a few quid and the price of a couple of leads you can just plug in to the mains.

[Tracker]

rupert123 - 2013-08-13 7:49 PM

 

Tracker - 2013-08-13 7:04 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-13 7:00 PM

 

Then buy IP67 connectors (they are available), and use where the cables will join.

 

Or leave the wretched lead at home and use gas and 12 volt which work perfectly well on all modern vans!

What! If we do that how are we going to run our cooker electric hotplate, our electric heating, electric water heater,TV, chargers for phone, camera, ipod, computer, electric razor, electric toothbrush, ereaders our electric kettle, electric toaster sometimes all at once. I could fit a few thousand pounds worth of batteries, solar panels, wind farms etc but why would you bother when for a few quid and the price of a couple of leads you can just plug in to the mains.

 

OOOps sorry Henry - now why didn't I think of that!

 

To just plug in a lead and use it seems so simple that I have to wonder why more of us don't do it - and if you are too far from the EHU point - well simply plug in another extension cable or two and carry on!

 

How hard can it be!!

[rupert123]

Tracker - 2013-08-13 7:53 PM

 

rupert123 - 2013-08-13 7:49 PM

 

Tracker - 2013-08-13 7:04 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-13 7:00 PM

 

Then buy IP67 connectors (they are available), and use where the cables will join.

 

Or leave the wretched lead at home and use gas and 12 volt which work perfectly well on all modern vans!

What! If we do that how are we going to run our cooker electric hotplate, our electric heating, electric water heater,TV, chargers for phone, camera, ipod, computer, electric razor, electric toothbrush, ereaders our electric kettle, electric toaster sometimes all at once. I could fit a few thousand pounds worth of batteries, solar panels, wind farms etc but why would you bother when for a few quid and the price of a couple of leads you can just plug in to the mains.

 

OOOps sorry Henry - now why didn't I think of that!

 

To just plug in a lead and use it seems so simple that I have to wonder why more of us don't do it - and if you are too far from the EHU point - well simply plug in another extension cable or two and carry on!

 

How hard can it be!!

Exactly, that is why I carry my mile long cable on a reel, just reel out the bit I want, hook it up and switch the lot on. Never reel out the lot so heat generated in the reel helps in the winter. If more than a mile away would have to use my own gas and diesel but never happened yet. Another way is a couple of large bulldog clips and shin up the nearest electricity pole, better get the wife to shin up.

[Tracker]

rupert123 - 2013-08-13 8:05 PM

Exactly, that is why I carry my mile long cable on a reel, just reel out the bit I want, hook it up and switch the lot on. Never reel out the lot so heat generated in the reel helps in the winter. If more than a mile away would have to use my own gas and diesel but never happened yet. Another way is a couple of large bulldog clips and shin up the nearest electricity pole, better get the wife to shin up.

 

That's the trouble with you Henry - you get carried away and now you're just being silly.

 

Bulldog clips would never carry the current you need to power your mansion on wheels - better to use extended jump leads with proper clamps!

[rupert123]

Tracker - 2013-08-13 8:28 PM

 

rupert123 - 2013-08-13 8:05 PM

Exactly, that is why I carry my mile long cable on a reel, just reel out the bit I want, hook it up and switch the lot on. Never reel out the lot so heat generated in the reel helps in the winter. If more than a mile away would have to use my own gas and diesel but never happened yet. Another way is a couple of large bulldog clips and shin up the nearest electricity pole, better get the wife to shin up.

 

That's the trouble with you Henry - you get carried away and now you're just being silly.

 

Bulldog clips would never carry the current you need to power your mansion on wheels - better to use extended jump leads with proper clamps!

I think we should stop this discussion Rich, even given the great tips here before some pompous prat, no names, reports us to H & S.

[Wirralian]

Keith. Thank you for referring me to the link for Go Outdoors for the 'electrical connection protection box'. I do indeed have one of these but they will only accommodate the continental connections and not our British 16A (blue) plug and socket.

 

John

[PJay]

Wirralian - 2013-08-17 9:52 PM

 

Keith. Thank you for referring me to the link for Go Outdoors for the 'electrical connection protection box'. I do indeed have one of these but they will only accommodate the continental connections and not our British 16A (blue) plug and socket.

 

John

 

THanks for that info John, was going to go and get one, but as it won't be any good , you have saved me a 50 mile round trip I also like the idea of the double connector, for when all the plugs have been used

PJay

[Pampam]

Eyup you could always go to caravan suppliers and build your own to your own length with "proper"cable my granddaughter lives in her caravan in our garden ,and we went to yorkshire caravans of bawtry bought the proper orange stuff ,and made a cable 60metres long . So the op could make a smaller one if he so desired.and use that I see his point about loads of excess cable :but plugging in is my oh job and he needs the exercise to keep his biceps trim lol

[bolero boy]

When I made my reverse polarity( lead 1 foot long) I got the connectors and the lead from our local caravan centre. When I decided to make up a 2nd, shorter, EHU cable the had the connectors but didn't stock 16A cable any more. Presumably to stop Joe Public making a cable instead of buying a ready made up one......for H/S reasons or profit, I wonder?

[Bulletguy]

Wirralian - 2013-08-17 9:52 PM

 

Keith. Thank you for referring me to the link for Go Outdoors for the 'electrical connection protection box'. I do indeed have one of these but they will only accommodate the continental connections and not our British 16A (blue) plug and socket.

 

John

Most interesting given the reason for the rather excessive cable diameter and that no suppliers can sell any other EHU lead. It makes a bit of a nonsense to be selling these 'protector boxes' which are only of any use to 'johnny foreigner'!

 

Whilst on the subject, a Dethleffs Globetrotter pulled on site just a few hours after me and is parked up a good 40 metres away from the nearest electricity point. He ran two lengths of "ordinary" mains cable in order to hook up with three parts of it regularly being run over by all manner of vehicles every day.

 

He's had no problems.

 

[Brambles]

Strikes me some engineers designed some outdoor plugs and sockets for use in rain and wet weather and to be trailed on the ground and then when half you lot on the forum get hold of them you think it is not good enough and are really implying the engineers have not done their job right and you have to redesign it with not only protective covers (probably untested and not approved) it has to be lockable, raise cables off the ground, and redesign the whole concept of a splash and rain proof connector system. Deary me, just get out there and enjoy using your Motorhomes on site and plug it in have fun. If you need as longer cable just get one, if you need shorter then make or get a shorter one.

Stick to the simple concept, if it is a light weight looking cable then uncoil it so the coiled cable does not overheat.

I have seen people on sites use covers on cable joins, then wrap in a bag, secure on top of a block or pole in the ground to lift it off, and then when it rains the bag strangely enough fills with water, these connectors if left alone on the ground will not flood with water, and so what if they do. It is not going to kill you if you apply common sense and unplug at the supply post 1st. People cutting grass are not blind, they will see your cable, and move it out the way and even if it is wet weather will not sustain an electric shock because they do not cut grass in the wet. When was the last time you saw a kid playing with an electric cable as if it was a toy, never probably. What health and safety has to do with leaving joint in a cable on a roadway on a campsite I have no idea as common sense says that is daft, but I forgot.....tripping over a cable is a MUCH bigger hazard than any chance for electrocution from a cable.

 

Darn, did I really casually walk out of my motorhome, trip over a cable laid on the ground I failed to see, as I fell I landed on the cable join which was wet, it gave me an electric shock, I jump up and catching my neck on a guy rope for the awning, I then proceeded to fall and landed on a guy rope peg in the ground and it slashed my leg. Blood everywhere, which made pool around the connector and blood being very conductive allowed me to get another electric shock, again making me jump banging my head of the fire extinguisher box next to me. It hurt so much I became faint and fell over again this time landing on the edge of a concrete box for the water supply tap drain. I grabbed the tap to steady myself accidently turning it on and fainted under it. The water from the tap ran into my mouth and I drowned. All because someone ran a cable in front of my motorhome to the next pitch. If only it had been an orange cable I would have seen it.

 

I am sorry, there is more danger from caravan steps, proof of this is when I stepped out of the van on holiday this summer, it collapsed and I was unable to walk properly for a week as a result. Moral here is if you have an old plastic caravan step affected by sunlight making it brittle… buy a new one. (Only true part of this post).

 

(p.s. - The above is firmly tougue in cheek, just practicing getting back into the swing of posting again and no doubt wil regret the above post)

 

On a side track and to catch up. Had a great Trip round Europe this year, usual Germany Austria regions but found lots of new places and routes and by good fortune came across loads of festivals and various other events by chance. One highlight being the Street Art festival in Linz, and final one being at end of tour meeting Seasick Steve after playing live for a live TV chat show, in Veurne. What a great guy he is and got a great photo of Steve and my son together who seemed to be having a great chinwag.

 

[Tracker]

Brambles - 2013-08-18 9:40 AM

Darn, did I really casually walk out of my motorhome, trip over a cable laid on the ground I failed to see, as I fell I landed on the cable join which was wet, it gave me an electric shock, I jump up and catching my neck on a guy rope for the awning, I then proceeded to fall and landed on a guy rope peg in the ground and it slashed my leg. Blood everywhere, which made pool around the connector and blood being very conductive allowed me to get another electric shock, again making me jump banging my head of the fire extinguisher box next to me. It hurt so much I became faint and fell over again this time landing on the edge of a concrete box for the water supply tap drain. I grabbed the tap to steady myself accidently turning it on and fainted under it. The water from the tap ran into my mouth and I drowned. All because someone ran a cable in front of my motorhome to the next pitch. If only it had been an orange cable I would have seen it.

 

It is a shame that you choose to make light of such a serious matter Jon and no doubt you will be taken to task by someone for this cavalier attitude to EHUs.

 

Meanwhile, welcome back, glad you had a good trip, and I agree totally with everything you say!

 

How so many people can make such an issue of such a simple matter is beyond me but symptomatic I think of the Elfan and PC society we are becoming, and I am surprised that anyone is still allowed to plug in their own cable without it first being tested and certified by a qualified electrician.

 

As I said many days ago - if the lead is too long - shorten it - cut it into two sections - and if you are worried about water in yer joints - stand the plug on a block of wood - how hard can it be?

[Camperdude]

Best not join two cables on a Caravan Club site or you might get a visit from the warden as I did.

 

I now carry two different length cables and use the shorter one most of the time.

 

Lifted from the CC website:

 

"Shorter cables may not reach from the bollard to your van on some sites and extra connector cables to add length are NOT recommended. The Club cannot accept responsibility for any damage or injury caused by the use of extra connector cables"

 

John

[Brambles]

I must admit, one thing which does bug me on campsites is the nerd on pitch next to you who runs his cable in front of your pitch to the supply point when he has plenty of length to neatly run around the back of the pitches out of the way and out of site. Of course there is a serious side to the discussion of cables but really it has all been said in previous posts. I suppose us British like to think we have more campsite etiquette and are more safety conscious than some of our foreign friends but there are some things which I consider bad manners. I also do quiver when I see the cheap light weight extension coil most of it coiled and a heater sitting under the awning burning full pelt. Fortunately most of these extension reels have thermal cut-outs or should have. I think it was Brain (apologies if not) who mentioned the cable should at least match the supply current available, and is a good point. If less then it should have its own protection at the supply end plug. For long distances from the supply as is common on some European sites it is really not practical to carry a heavy weight cable so a lighter one is more practical. The additional volt drop is not much and most on board equipment should be happy with it, however fridges may not perform so well on mains with a larger volt drop as already struggling in hot climes on mains.

Talking of fridges struggling in temps above 30 degrees I have discovered the simple action of hanging a towel over the door makes a massive difference to the heat loss or should that be gain in the fridge.