Let's Hear It For The UK

[RogerC]

Gwendolyn - 2013-08-24 11:28 AMBrock, I love this sentence from your post:"I go away in the van to relax, not to get over excited at the realisation the country isn't run entirely for my benefit."Perfectly phrased!CheersGwen

 

I like that quote.

 

In all honesty, with all the moans, complaints and negativity one reads here about the state of motorhoming in the UK, (most of which I have yet to encounter) it beggars belief that there is anyone having the courage to venture out.

 

We don't 'wild camp' because we prefer to set up, get the awning out and relax without the 'considered fast escape' some 'free spirits' mention. However each to their own and if this 'floats your boat' I wouldn't deign to criticise.  We don't object to paying site fees, inclusive of elektrickery or not, we have yet to meet the 'Basil Fawlty' wardens, we simply enjoy our time out and about.  If there are places we are not permitted then so be it...........relatively speaking 'we motorhomers' are a minority and we shouldn't expect consideration for this, that and the other.  There's plenty of lovely places in the UK to visit without banging your head against the immoveable objects of rules and restrictions.

 

My only real gripe has nothing to do with 'officialdom' although it could be allied to it.  DOGS....noisy dogs.  No matter where you go, unless it is a 'no dogs' site there is always at least one irresponsible owner who allows their 'mutt' to bark, bark, bark destroying the peace and tranquility.  Site rules say:

 

f Pets

 

i Pets are welcome on site but the Owners are responsible for the behaviour of their animals.

ii We do not allow on site any breed of dog listed under the Dangerous Dogs act 1991.

iii No animal is allowed to be loose on site and must be kept on a lead no longer than 2m.

iv Proprietary pet cages are only allowed within the confines of the unit including an awning.

v Pets should be exercised in the areas provided; where available or off site.

vi Owners must ensure that their pets do not foul the site and are responsible for cleaning up after them.

vii If it is deemed a pet is creating a nuisance or causing disturbance to others, their owner will be asked to remove them from site.

viii With the exception of guide dogs, pets are not allowed in the toilet block or other buildings.

 

 

On a recent visit to a CCC site a number of dogs were on those extending leads, some of which are up to 8 mtrs.  A couple camping close to us had two dogs that crapped outside their palatial tent and on three occasions dogs were loose.  It was a rare event to have 30 minutes of unbroken peace and quiet with owners incapable or not bothered about their dogs barking and disturbing other people.  So while there are those that deplore the over assertive wardens/rules/regulations and restrictions this is one area where I really do wish they would enforce the rules..in particular vii above.

 

Rant over..........

 

[Brian Kirby]

Mike88 - 2013-08-24 8:39 AM..........Brian. The late arrivals area at Exeter Racecourse is (or at least was a few years back) outside the site but part of the racecourse. It is on the opposite side of the track and to the right as you look towards the entrance................

Then I don't understand why the CC say in their latest sites directory that there is not one - unless, of course, things have changed in the meantime. But, they never do that, do they? :-D

[Robinhood]

Gwendolyn - 2013-08-24 10:39 AM

 

Mike, the departure time slot offered is always 10 – 12 on every CC site when you book on-line.

 

........

 

You will be able to leave as early as you wish.

 

Cheers

Gwen

 

......indeed. I've been on a CC site for the last three nights, booked on line at short notice with a (no-choice) departure time of 10:00-12:00. I've never interpreted this as an earliest departure time, simply a vagary of the online system.

 

Indeed, if we stay on CC sites, we are invariably on our way well before 10:00. This morning we left site shortly after 08:00 to head home (as the weather had turned overnight there was no incentive to hang about).

 

Now, these three nights are an interesting example; a CC site (not a CL, though admittedly "bogless") and electricity for £11 per night (even over the BH weekend!); Immaculately maintained, well-spaced, out in the country (luvverly!), and with ample cycling and walking to occupy more than the time we had booked. Nice villages with tea-rooms/coffee shops at affordable prices, and country pubs to drop into on our travels and have a pint at reasonable price. Weather wasn't bad either.

 

I like (much of) the UK, and enjoy touring round it.

 

I sometimes do book sites, but really this is because our route is usually more predictable in the UK, there is no language barrier on the 'phone, and knowing you have a pitch waiting for you is useful. It is normally done on the day we move on, however, and more prevalent when the destination may be a bit of a "honeypot".

 

When we haven't booked, we've rarely had any issue (though in the main School Holiday period we have tended to use CL/CSs and THS sites).

 

Being someone who (when I worked and the kids were with us) habitually had weekends away, necessitating late arrivals, we've arranged to arrive on club sites after 8pm (and I've never stayed on a late-arrival pitch in my life!). We've often, but not invariably, been allowed to stay after the advertised departure time.The caricature of the "little Hitler" warden (whilst I've certainly met some who are less friendly than others) is something I just don't recognise. (I do sometimes wonder if "attitude" given receives "attitude" in return).

 

There is certainly something different about motorhoming abroad, but there is something different about holidaying abroad in any manner (and that's largely why people do it). I can certainly see that some people are "blinkered" enough (;-)) to only perceive one way of holidaying in a motorcaravan, and to denigrate the opinions of others (especially ex-or current "tuggers" B-) ), but quite frankly this is, IMO, facile.

 

In going abroad, we adapt to each country, and fit our holiday around each one's peculiarities. I suspect, in the case of the UK, for some people familiarity has bred contempt. When I can stay on a THS in the Trough of Bowland with its marvellous walking and cycling (and village facilities a couple of hundred yards away), a similar in Ripon, walkable to the town and with Fountain's Abbey a short walk away (and the best Fish and Chips I've had in a long time for only £4.50), and my recent weekend away, all in the space of a Month, and for an average of less than £8 per night, then I'm certainly not going to knock the UK.

 

(Interestingly enough, we had a tour in the car of some of the English Heritage properties in North Yorkshire a week ago. Despite there being some tight access (e.g. Rievaulx Abbey where there were two motorhomes in the car park) it really didn't seem that motorhomes were discouraged, with 'vans in all bar one location. (some of the car-parks were chargeable, though, so some people on here might have been put off ;-) )

[Brian Kirby]

Mike88 - 2013-08-24 8:39 AM.....................the point I was making is that camping in the UK is not the free and easy process that you find abroad.

No it is not, but the UK (I think more specifically England) is a different country, with a different population.

 

England is relatively densely populated, but has never learned to live accordingly. A colleague once commented of Nepal, where he had spent some time, that the Nepalese were town dwellers with the sanitary habits of nomads (sorry Bruce! :-)). England is a bit like that socially.

 

Our population has expanded rapidly into towns and cities, but we have never embraced the social graces necessary for peaceful co-habitation. Mainland Europeans, on the other hand, seem to have handled this rather better. There are conventions about noise at night and other times, and general consideration for neighbours, that are scoffed at in England as the work of a nanny, doo gooding, state.

 

So with club sites. The "rules" are only necessary because uncouth, anti-social, selfish people behave in ways that spoil the peace, quiet, and harmony others value. These rules merely set out what most would consider normal, respectful, considerate, behaviour. To the uncouth, anti-social and selfish that they seek to restrict, they appear onerous and interfering, but only because those people are uncouth, anti-social, and selfish.

 

In crowded places one has to behave differently to the way one can behave in empty spaces, if one is to avoid disharmony. If that were more widely understood, the rules would become irrelevant. That they remain relevant, says it all. If we would behave as others tend to behave, we could have a country, despite is high population density, that was as easy to inhabit as is much of mainland Europe, but we should have to exercise far more self-restraint and discipline to get there. In the meantime we remain as we are, and have the rules to match. Sad, isn't it?

[747]

Hi Brian,

 

Some would say I am uncouth but I am definitely anti social and selfish. I am those last 2 because I don't like how many Brits behave on sites. That is why I only do THS. I get as far away from them as possible. :D I may be selfish but I have peace and quiet.

[RogerC]

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-24 1:19 PM

Mike88 - 2013-08-24 8:39 AM.....................the point I was making is that camping in the UK is not the free and easy process that you find abroad.

No it is not, but the UK (I think more specifically England) is a different country, with a different population.England is relatively densely populated, but has never learned to live accordingly. A colleague once commented of Nepal, where he had spent some time, that the Nepalese were town dwellers with the sanitary habits of nomads (sorry Bruce! :-)). England is a bit like that socially.Our population has expanded rapidly into towns and cities, but we have never embraced the social graces necessary for peaceful co-habitation. Mainland Europeans, on the other hand, seem to have handled this rather better. There are conventions about noise at night and other times, and general consideration for neighbours, that are scoffed at in England as the work of a nanny, doo gooding, state.So with club sites. The "rules" are only necessary because uncouth, anti-social, selfish people behave in ways that spoil the peace, quiet, and harmony others value. These rules merely set out what most would consider normal, respectful, considerate, behaviour. To the uncouth, anti-social and selfish that they seek to restrict, they appear onerous and interfering, but only because those people are uncouth, anti-social, and selfish.In crowded places one has to behave differently to the way one can behave in empty spaces, if one is to avoid disharmony. If that were more widely understood, the rules would become irrelevant. That they remain relevant, says it all. If we would behave as others tend to behave, we could have a country, despite is high population density, that was as easy to inhabit as is much of mainland Europe, but we should have to exercise far more self-restraint and discipline to get there. In the meantime we remain as we are, and have the rules to match. Sad, isn't it?

 

Well put Brian.  Your comments tie in nicely with my observations posted a little earlier.  In a nutshell there are 'unfortunately' too many inconsiderate 'I'll do what I want types' around who have no concept of 'harmonious' living.

 

[Mike88]

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-24 1:52 PM

 

Mike88 - 2013-08-24 8:39 AM..........Brian. The late arrivals area at Exeter Racecourse is (or at least was a few years back) outside the site but part of the racecourse. It is on the opposite side of the track and to the right as you look towards the entrance................

Then I don't understand why the CC say in their latest sites directory that there is not one - unless, of course, things have changed in the meantime. But, they never do that, do they? :-D

 

Brian. You will see from the pdf below taken from the Caravan Club webpage for Exeter Racecourse that there is a late arrivals area. As I had stayed there on the night before our big move to the South West I knew I wasn't mistaken.

 

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/4411178/exeter_racecourse_site_plan_au_13.pdf

[Brian Kirby]

Interesting Mike! In view of the folowing from their website, "We would like to advise that additional security has been installed at Exeter Racecourse. If you are arriving after 8pm, please park in the late night arrival area" it seems the directory entry is incorrect. Shocking!! :-D

[rupert123]

To all those who think no one holidays in the UK anymore. Yesterday my wife and I drove over to the north Wales coast to look at houses, we do not normally venture out at holiday weekends. The three campsites we passed were all full with a mix of tents, caravans and m/h's, all the carparks around us were full, the village we live in has no space anywhere and judging by the traffic pouring in on the A55 North Wales is going to have to put the full up signs out today. The weather today is lovely and the carparks in Beddgelert already chocker, I noticed a couple of vans parked up overnight, no one seems to take much notice. As I have said before the number of euro vans around is well up on anything I have ever seen so our lack of aires does not seem to put them off. I suspect they are fully aware before they arrive of the lack of aire type parking and adapt, pity some uk residents are incapable of doing the same. Anyway must get down to watch tv, Brit rider on pole for motor gp and brit driver on pole for the Belgium GP. Lewis Hamilton is of course driving a Mercedes but a Mercedes totally based and built in the UK, Germans, it would seem, do not have the engineering skill to do it themselves, up the UK.

[Rayjsj]

Mike88 - 2013-08-23 6:33 PM

 

Bolly1965 - 2013-08-23 6:12 PM

 

I love caravan club sites. OK the prices are getting towards those of commercial sites and are even more expensive than some but the standard at the CC sites are always excellent.

 

My only gripe is the difficulty I have finding somewhere at either short notice or peak periods.

 

I've booked into Exeter House CC Site next week as I'm due to get my suspension raised early the next day. I cannot arrive before 1PM and can't leave until 10am so hopefully will be able to spend the night in the late arrivals area - a bargain for £23 I don't think. The CC is full of rules and to hell with the customer. No wonder we have given up on the UK.

 

If you do have to stay in the late arrivals area, you won't have to pay the 'pitch fee' for that night, (part of 'the rules' ) So, a lot less than the Full price. I have been told by a UK commercial site, 'That if I didn't arrive before 'Closing time' ? then my booked pitch would be given to someone else. So, make sure you get a move on ' AND that my deposit would be forfeit if I didn't turn up. very nice people!. With the club, they at least treat you with understanding (in MY experience) Which, like above the above, is why I like them. Ray

 

PS. The length of Tether for Dogs on CC sites is 3 metres. I know this because I carefully measure my 2 labradors Tether, and place the spike so that they cannot 'intrude' onto other pitches or the road.

A water pistol is a good 'Training Tool ' for a barking Dog, they HATE it, and you are doing them no physical harm. Try it.

[teflon2]

When we 1st started motorhoming we did the Europe bit then as we retired and the budget for travelling became less we saved the cost of ferries etc. and stayed in England the west country and the lakes etc. as money for diesel became less available we reduced our trips to more local areas and found varied and interesting places almost on our doorstep now the cost of keeping the motorhome has grown too much it's gone but our memories will last for the rest of our lives, without our motorhome we would never have travelled to the places we have or met the people we have you can't put a price on it. John B-)

[the general]

Very nicely put ! Sounds like you did what you wanted to do which is main thing .

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

After reading through this thread I've come to the realisation that many on here use their motorhomes as a touring caravan, with the same mindset as tuggers. Park up on a site, then go off on public transport for the day, or go off on their bicycles. thereby avoiding the pitfalls of motorhome use that the UK motohome user encounters.

 

The whole point for us of owning a van is to be able to have access to our own facilties all day, not just part of it, of course there are certain places that is not practical, nor desirable, but in the main especially with my wife having mobility issues that is what we aim for, and that is what is increasingly difficult in the UK.

 

Compared with with the sheer convenience of parking up within a city that you can do in many parts of France, Blois, Metz, Angers,Tours, and so on, together with lovely villages, and tourist "hotspots" Oradour, Le Mont St Michael, Bayeux, and so on, and enjoy an evening stroll and soak up the ambiance is what does it for us, not having to check what time the last bus back to the site is, but each to their own, as Frank said, I did it my way.

 

As for Ruperts123 comments about Euro vans here, we live in one of Wales premier resorts in Snowdonia, and I can tell you we have only seen a couple of Euro vans all summer, and trust me they would find nowhere to park this weekend in any event, even the car drivers are resorting to parking in the trees ;-)

 

Anyway some of you will be pleased to hear that moaning 1foot is off next week to France and Spain once again, and apart from maybe the odd wi-fi spot access you will not hear my "moans" until November. :D

[rupert123]

1footinthegrave - 2013-08-26 6:43 AM

 

 

 

As for Ruperts123 comments about Euro vans here, we live in one of Wales premier resorts in Snowdonia, and I can tell you we have only seen a couple of Euro vans all summer, and trust me they would find nowhere to park this weekend in any event, even the car drivers are resorting to parking in the trees ;-)

 

Anyway some of you will be pleased to hear that moaning 1foot is off next week to France and Spain once again, and apart from maybe the odd wi-fi spot access you will not hear my "moans" until November. :D

Obviously not as popular or well known as Beddgelert then but pleased to see you confirm the UK is very popular as a holiday destination. If your area is full why would they need M/H owners who insist on doing everything foc including clogging up the layby's and carparks. We to are off to euro land in a couple of weeks but as we stay on sites and aires will avoid you (lol), hope you find lots of nice free laybys to enjoy yourselves in.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

rupert123 - 2013-08-26 10:46 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-08-26 6:43 AM

 

 

 

As for Ruperts123 comments about Euro vans here, we live in one of Wales premier resorts in Snowdonia, and I can tell you we have only seen a couple of Euro vans all summer, and trust me they would find nowhere to park this weekend in any event, even the car drivers are resorting to parking in the trees ;-)

 

Anyway some of you will be pleased to hear that moaning 1foot is off next week to France and Spain once again, and apart from maybe the odd wi-fi spot access you will not hear my "moans" until November. :D

Obviously not as popular or well known as Beddgelert then but pleased to see you confirm the UK is very popular as a holiday destination. If your area is full why would they need M/H owners who insist on doing everything foc including clogging up the layby's and carparks. We to are off to euro land in a couple of weeks but as we stay on sites and aires will avoid you (lol), hope you find lots of nice free laybys to enjoy yourselves in.

 

Never stayed on a layby in my life, so you could well meet up with us, look out for an 03 reg IH Savannah pvc with Cymru on the rear boot door.

 

And yes the UK is popular with UK citizens, who have never ventured much further than Bognor Regis

 

I doubt in the popularity stakes Beddgelart is anywhere near Aberdyfi, or has it got miles of sandy beaches as well. BUT everyone that I have seen clogging up the car parks and even parked on the footpaths are almost all UK car visitors,mainly Brummies judging by their accents and perhaps you should size some of the vehicles that pass for cars nowadays, many as equally as large as a PVC so what's the difference, and as I've said before leaving their tons of litter behind and discarded dog poo bags, but lets not get facts stand in the way of your opinions eh..us motor home users are the real problem, ;-)

and I do have to ask why you have such an apparent nasty demeanour that shines through like a search light, there really is no need is there ?

[Gwendolyn]

Oh pack it in you two. Aberdyfi, Beddgelert, both lovely places and no doubt popular with many people.

 

Pembrokeshire, where we live, seems to be awash with Dutch this summer – but that proves nothing as most campsites I use seem to be awash with Dutch – yes, motorhomers as well as caravanners.

 

1foot – that remark about UK being popular with people who have never ventured further than Bognor is a wild generalisation

 

I like what the UK has to offer, and it offers a lot. BUT>> we also go off to Europe for 3 x 2 month trips every year. As, no doubt do many, many others. And yes, we know that there are no Aires, and that UK touring [perhaps] requires more planning. But it’s hardly an arduous task for heaven's sake. If you want to tour in the UK you’ll make things work; if you don’t, fine.

 

But to sneer at people who like the UK, and make a wholly unproven remark about not passing Bognor does not advance your ‘argument’ one little bit.

 

This thread seems to have come full circle with my asking for info about enjoyable UK trips and please ‘no France is better’ stuff because we know about Aires and suchlike already…. But there have been some interesting posts along the way. So thanks for that.

 

Cheers

Gwen

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Gwen, the thing that frustrates me, and many others through numerous "real" conversations with people is with just a little imagination it could be mutually advantageous to local authorities, and organisations such as English heritage, and the National trust to get past the blinkered idea that we as a group are somehow less than desirable than any other member of the public, imagine an extension to NT membership for example to allow and provide facities for M/home users both from here and abroad for a ball park figure of £10 a night, considering the land they have it could provide a welcome boost to their finances, Kent have done it at Dover road, so why not some others too, oh well.

 

[Gwendolyn]

1footinthegrave - 2013-08-26 1:06 PM

 

Gwen, the thing that frustrates me, and many others through numerous "real" conversations with people is with just a little imagination it could be mutually advantageous to local authorities, and organisations such as English heritage, and the National trust to get past the blinkered idea that we as a group are somehow less than desirable than any other member of the public, imagine an extension to NT membership for example to allow and provide facities for M/home users both from here and abroad for a ball park figure of £10 a night, considering the land they have it could provide a welcome boost to their finances, Kent have done it at Dover road, so why not some others too, oh well.

 

Why don't you do something about then, rather than keeping on repeating the same old thing on here? No doubt, most regular readers of the Forum know your opinions by now. But airing them continually will achieve nothing. Unless you think that somehow your ideas will sink into a collective consciousness and, after time, councils, NT, EH, and supermarket chains will wake up one morning and provide Aires, having had an Eureka moment, because, by osmosis, your posts have sunk in.

 

Much better, surely, to start a campaign and enlist supporters, and actively lobby such organisations. Cast your ideas before a wider audience.

 

But, as it is, you will seize every opportunity to rehearse your ideas again and again, even when threads have really nothing to do with it.

 

I know that OPs do not own threads and the threads will go off at tangents as in real conversations, but I really was hoping to read ideas about achievable motorhome UK trips, and not have to re-read your usual litany of anti UK complaints.

 

Gwen

 

[Gwendolyn]

teflon2 - 2013-08-25 8:09 PM

 

When we 1st started motorhoming we did the Europe bit then as we retired and the budget for travelling became less we saved the cost of ferries etc. and stayed in England the west country and the lakes etc. as money for diesel became less available we reduced our trips to more local areas and found varied and interesting places almost on our doorstep now the cost of keeping the motorhome has grown too much it's gone but our memories will last for the rest of our lives, without our motorhome we would never have travelled to the places we have or met the people we have you can't put a price on it. John B-)

 

That is very elegiac. I hope that when we come to hand in the motorhome keys for the final time that we will look back as contentedly and happily as you do. Thank you.

 

Cheers

Gwen

 

[RogerC]

1foot.....regarding your 'Bognor Regis' comment you might like to consider those who have spent a working life predominantly overseas who are fed up with 'distance' holidays.  I spent around 30 years in aviation flying literally all over the world (usually spending up to 9 months of the year abroad) and to be honest I am totally fed up with 'abroad'.  Hence I have little inclination, for the present, in driving thousands of miles just to 'see' something different.  I/we do still venture abroad(flying) as my good lady still requires her dose of guaranteed sun.

 

I consider the UK to have a great deal to offer and has some of the most beautiful countryside in the world which motorhoming allows me to see.  Scotland for example has a great 'pull' for me as I have seen most of it from 250ft flying low level and would love to experience it close up and personal.  We did two weeks up there 2 yrs back and have it on the 'must do' list for the future.

 

Whether your 'bent' is for home or abroad motorhoming it's all about how/where you get your pleasures..........it's not a one size fits all method of recreation.

 

 

 

[747]

RogerC - 2013-08-26 1:25 PM1foot.....regarding your 'Bognor Regis' comment you might like to consider those who have spent a working life predominantly overseas who are fed up with 'distance' holidays.  I spent around 30 years in aviation flying literally all over the world (usually spending up to 9 months of the year abroad) and to be honest I am totally fed up with 'abroad'.  Hence I have little inclination, for the present, in driving thousands of miles just to 'see' something different.  I/we do still venture abroad(flying) as my good lady still requires her dose of guaranteed sun.

 

I consider the UK to have a great deal to offer and has some of the most beautiful countryside in the world which motorhoming allows me to see.  Scotland for example has a great 'pull' for me as I have seen most of it from 250ft flying low level and would love to experience it close up and personal.  We did two weeks up there 2 yrs back and have it on the 'must do' list for the future.

 

Whether your 'bent' is for home or abroad motorhoming it's all about how/where you get your pleasures..........it's not a one size fits all method of recreation.

 

 

+1 on that sentiment.I have seen a lot of places. The UK is not one of them. :D I don't have a passport (current one) anymore and I even refuse to take or pick up anyone from an Airport. I hate the places, I have already wasted enough of my life sitting around in them. *-) My adventures came when I was young and fit (who said daft as well? ) :-D Retirement is for choosing what you want to do, what pleases yourself. I have my way, others have theirs. ;-)

[maggyd]

As we were driving from home to Marquise at Birtley on Thursday, just before the M1 from Sedgefield there was about a dozen French Motorhomes lined up waiting to fill up at a Petrol station :-S I couldnt help myself saying "poor beggars" or words to that effect " I hope they are booked in somewhere "

or else they are in for a BIG disappointment .

[ips]

Send em up here we will fit them in, well 5 of em anyway :-D

[Rayjsj]

1footinthegrave - 2013-08-26 1:06 PM

 

Gwen, the thing that frustrates me, and many others through numerous "real" conversations with people is with just a little imagination it could be mutually advantageous to local authorities, and organisations such as English heritage, and the National trust to get past the blinkered idea that we as a group are somehow less than desirable than any other member of the public, imagine an extension to NT membership for example to allow and provide facities for M/home users both from here and abroad for a ball park figure of £10 a night, considering the land they have it could provide a welcome boost to their finances, Kent have done it at Dover road, so why not some others too, oh well.

[/quote

 

 

 

 

The National Trust already have 2 CL's on their property, The Stourhead Estate, nr Warminster, which we have stayed on, very nice and handy for the Gardens. Nice restuarant. And Kingston Lacey Nr Wimborne, Dorset, not visited this one yet. So, they are not anti-motorhome, and the precedent is there. I am a member, so perhaps I'll send a letter. Ray

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

ips - 2013-08-26 4:35 PM

 

Send em up here we will fit them in, well 5 of em anyway :-D

 

As long as they have membership cards of course to stay at your cl, a rather alien idea to the average Frenchman. ;-)

 

I'm not going to keep banging the drum, life's too short, but this was the scene in Aberdyfi today on a bank hoilday Monday on the one car park that allows motorhomes from anywhere to park up ( at least in the daytime), you can see it was rammed with motorhomes,all two of them, no wonder we pose such a problem parking everywhere and dumping our crap, and perhaps all these mythical foreign vans don't think Snowdonia and Aberdyfi is up to much, as they are rarer than rocking horse s**t around here.. ;-)