Kenny Campervan Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I am just about to have a 60 litre gas tank fitted under my motorhome by a local company called AAG (Arun Alternatives Group). Has anyone used them before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Hi Kenny, Must say I have not. However, if I were to get one fitted I would consider an earlier thread regarding if you wish to travel on the eurotunnel. In with the fitting I would consider access to 'on/off' valve. good luck derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnerontheroad Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Get them to fit stainless steel holding straps as there have been cases of tanks dropping off where straps have rusted through. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Don't these things make a big hole in your payload? And is there any need for such a big tank now that re-fillables are available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I see they are an alternative fuel supplier for motor vehicles and not a leisure vehicle equipment supplier so make sure it is the correct type of tank. Tanks for alternative fuel engines supply liquid whereas tanks for cooking and heating supply gas. If you get the wrong type it will lead to a catastrophic failure! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Kenny Campervan - 2014-06-03 7:04 AM I am just about to have a 60 litre gas tank fitted under my motorhome by a local company called AAG (Arun Alternatives Group). Has anyone used them before? Bit late in the day to be asking, don't you think? Excuse the pun, but are you getting cold feet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Keithl - 2014-06-03 12:11 PMI see they are an alternative fuel supplier for motor vehicles and not a leisure vehicle equipment supplier so make sure it is the correct type of tank.Tanks for alternative fuel engines supply liquid whereas tanks for cooking and heating supply gas. If you get the wrong type it will lead to a catastrophic failure!Keith. Keith I am at a loss trying to understand your comments. Gas for cooking/heating is liquid in the tank and remains liquid under pressure. It becomes gasseous when allowed to flow to the burner. I understood that gasseous fuel supplies for vehicle propellant worked on the same principle......it is called LPG (liquid petroleum 'gas') ergo it is the 'gas' that is burnt not the liquid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 RogerC - 2014-06-03 2:01 PMKeithl - 2014-06-03 12:11 PMI see they are an alternative fuel supplier for motor vehicles and not a leisure vehicle equipment supplier so make sure it is the correct type of tank.Tanks for alternative fuel engines supply liquid whereas tanks for cooking and heating supply gas. If you get the wrong type it will lead to a catastrophic failure!Keith. Keith I am at a loss trying to understand your comments. Gas for cooking/heating is liquid in the tank and remains liquid under pressure. It becomes gaseous when allowed to flow to the burner. I understood that gaseous fuel supplies for vehicle propellant worked on the same principle......it is called LPG (liquid petroleum 'gas') ergo it is the 'gas' that is burnt not the liquid.Roger,To try and clarify my post, the gas take off point for propulsion is actually a liquid take off and is only allowed to change state to a gas right before injection into the engine.In contrast the take off for heating/cooking is already in a gaseous state, ie it has been allowed to 'gas off' in the cylinder.If you where to use a propulsion tank for heating/cooking there would be no point in the system that could allow the liquid to revert to gas and hence this would occur at the burner jet as the liquid emerged.From memory gas in its liquid state expands to something like 100 times its original volume when allowed to revert to a gas so that would be an awful lot of gas in your appliance with disastrous consequences!Does that make sense?Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Campervan Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Hi Stalwart. Yes - hence my thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 what van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Campervan Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Thank you all for your kind comments. I have considered all the above and I have no doubts about the tank. I clearly phrased the question wrong. I am more concerned about the company fitting the tank. Anyone had any dealings with AAG (Arun Alternatives Group)? They started out as Arun Autogas Group but were shafted by one of their directors. A customer bought the company and they have been operating since 2012. However, I have not seen any reviews on their reliability/workmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Campervan Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Knaus Sky Ti 700 MEG. The payload can cope at 650Kg (the gas full weighs 25Kg plus kit - whatever that weighs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 that's a 7.5 metre German van with presumably a 2 x 11 kg gas bottle capacity? Why are you going for an under slung tank...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Campervan Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Went thru France and around Spain last autumn for 3 + months. Ran out of gas and had to buy French bottle (much cheaper than here). Regulator fitting is different. However, you have to buy the contract as well (like here). Travelled to Spain and the fitting is different here too. With a tank, I just call at a station and fill up. The adaptors are available. 6Kg bottle compared with 6Kg work of LPG is a no brainer. i.e. £37 vz £10 and LPG readily available on the continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yes understood......but what most people do is just fit 2 X 11Kg refillable bottles from a company like GasIt or Gaslow. That way you can remove and fit to your next van, and gas readily available most places......what you are intending just seems unnecessary.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-06-03 8:00 PM Yes understood......but what most people do is just fit 2 X 11Kg refillable bottles from a company like GasIt or Gaslow. That way you can remove and fit to your next van, and gas readily available most places......what you are intending just seems unnecessary.... Could you not also remove and refit an underslung tank (or have it done) to a replacement van? It is something I have considered, partly for the benefit of refillable LPG, but also to gain a decent sized externally accessed locker. But I'll probably not do it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Keithl - 2014-06-03 2:16 PMRogerC - 2014-06-03 2:01 PMKeithl - 2014-06-03 12:11 PMI see they are an alternative fuel supplier for motor vehicles and not a leisure vehicle equipment supplier so make sure it is the correct type of tank.Tanks for alternative fuel engines supply liquid whereas tanks for cooking and heating supply gas. If you get the wrong type it will lead to a catastrophic failure!Keith. Keith I am at a loss trying to understand your comments. Gas for cooking/heating is liquid in the tank and remains liquid under pressure. It becomes gaseous when allowed to flow to the burner. I understood that gaseous fuel supplies for vehicle propellant worked on the same principle......it is called LPG (liquid petroleum 'gas') ergo it is the 'gas' that is burnt not the liquid. Roger,To try and clarify my post, the gas take off point for propulsion is actually a liquid take off and is only allowed to change state to a gas right before injection into the engine.In contrast the take off for heating/cooking is already in a gaseous state, ie it has been allowed to 'gas off' in the cylinder.If you where to use a propulsion tank for heating/cooking there would be no point in the system that could allow the liquid to revert to gas and hence this would occur at the burner jet as the liquid emerged.From memory gas in its liquid state expands to something like 100 times its original volume when allowed to revert to a gas so that would be an awful lot of gas in your appliance with disastrous consequences!Does that make sense?Keith. Thanks Keith........got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Campervan Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Are Gassit/Gaslow refilables available on the continent? Also the combined weight of the 2 11Kg bottles and gas will be marginally heavier and, with a tank I have the locker space available for by BBQ storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Kenny Campervan - 2014-06-03 11:01 PM Are Gassit/Gaslow refilables available on the continent? Also the combined weight of the 2 11Kg bottles and gas will be marginally heavier and, with a tank I have the locker space available for by BBQ storage. Re-fillable bottles are re-fillable on the Continent - you just pull into a petrol station or LPG depot and connect the autogas filler, press the button and the bottles fill up safely and automatically - as easy as buying diesel! I have two 11kg bottles with automatic switchover but actually I should have got one 11kg and a smaller one as the back-up bottle, because it's so easy to refill and there is no point in carrying the extra weight of two 11kg bottles. 650kg of payload will disappear quickly as you put your stuff in so I suggest you think again about fitting such a big lump as a 60 litre tank, even if you have already bought it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 A 60 litre tank is quite big, is there actually room enough for it to be mounted underneath? Be aware the tank should be mounted on a frame and the straps are only there to secure it to the frame, the straps should not be carrying any weight at all. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 If you use Eurotunnel I'm sure that it was mentioned on here previously that their is a limit on size of LPG tanks. Most people go for refillable bottles, cheaper and easier. Undeslung tanks normally the choice of those with limited internal space.....but in a 7.5 metre van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 There's very little on-line about Arun Alternatives Group and, as planning to have a fixed LPG tank fitted to a motorhome (rather than choose more easily installed refillable bottles) is pretty rare, the chances of obtaining feedback about AAG from a motorhome forum are very low indeed. I echo what has already been said. Unless there is a very good reason to have a fixed LPG tank - like it's absolutely essential to free up the gas-locker space for extra storage, or the motorhome has a tiny gas-locker that's too small to accommodate a refillable bottle - selecting the LPG tank option over the refillable LPG bottle option is a debatable choice. A refillable LPG bottle (and I'd question the logic of carrying two bottles if the gas-locker is able to handle 11kg (22 litre) containers) will be much cheaper initially than a tank installation, much more easily transferable to another motorhome, probably more easily refillable and more versatile if there are any subsequent problems. Choosing to have a 60 litre LPG tank on a motorhome, instead of a 22 litre refillable bottle, is (in my opinion) like choosing to have an expensive 60 gallon petrol tank on a vehicle instead of a considerably cheaper 20 gallon one. If the vehicle uses a huge amount of petrol, or will be driven long distances in countries where petrol-stations are few and far between, a 60 gallon tank may be justifiable. But, if petrol usage is not enormous and there are plenty of petrol-stations in the countries where the vehicle will be travelling, it's difficult to see the attraction of the big expensive tank. Similarly for a motorhome's LPG reserves - why pay more for a big container when a smaller, cheaper, lighter one should be perfectly adequate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Campervan Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Hi all. Thanks for all your responses. Very interesting. Well, I've had it fitted and AAG (Arun Alternatives Group) are great. I was worrying needlessly. I would recommend them to others who are considering fitting an underslung tank. I hear what you are saying re Gaslow bottles. I just think that an underslung tank is lighter, out of the way, provides plentiful gas - particularly in countries where it is difficult to find - I've had a BBQ point fitted, so I'll run my BBQ from it and weight distribution is great as it's fitted just behind the axle. It is bolted to the chassis. Also, the Kg equivalent to 60ltr is 24Kg. The maximum allowance for the tunnel and ferries is 47Kg (93ltr). Incidently, no hybrid conversions are allowed if you are thinking of converting your engine. We plan to keep the van for at least 5 years (as it's only two years old now) and I think I'll easily make up the £750 it cost to fit it. Love your photo Judge Mental! Where can I get a couple of those fitted?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 If you do have a tank fitted you will have a locker where the cylinders would have been to store something else. Go for it. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 The specification of a typical 60 litre LPG tank is given here http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/motorhome-lpg-tank-60-ltr-269-p.asp and of a typical 11kg LPG refillable bottle here http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/11kg-refillable-gas-bottle-with-contents-gauge-633-p.asp Even ignoring the weight of the tank's mounting-kit , there'd be an 'equipment' weight-saving of around 11kg with a 2-bottle LPG system, and some 33kg weight-saving if just one LPG bottle were chosen. Potential financial savings for refillable LPG systems have been discussed here in the past. It is certainly possible to skew the statistics to give the impression that considerable savings can be made, but that means choosing the most expensive exchange-bottle prices and the cheapest autogas. As any saving involves the price difference per litre of gas, the more expensive the cost of the refillable LPG system the longer it will take to recoup the cost. The cost per litre of the LPG in a Calor 13kg propane bottle is about £1.05 and the cost per litre of UK autogas (when I recently refilled my bottle) was about £0.63. So, for every litre of LPG I use in my motorhome, I 'save' £0.42 against the Calor price. If I had spent £750 on a refillable system, to recoup that cost I'd need to use 1785 litres of autogas, which is equivalent to sixty-eight 13kg Calor bottles. As my average LPG usage is about one litre per day, I could break even if I used my motorhome EVERY DAY for about 4.9 years. However, as I use the motorhome only for about 8 weeks per year (and ignoring the fact that some of that usage is on campsites where the vehicle is on mains hook-up), to 'save' £750 would take 31.8 years. Now, there's a very slim possibility I'll be around in 2046, but the chances are nil I'll be motorcaravanning. The fact is that, to make significant monetary savings with a refillable LPG system in a motorhome in a reasonable time-frame, you either need to be refilling exchange-only bottles, or use a helluva lot of gas coupled to having paid as little as possible for the original equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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