Burstner solano t727 2011- tyre pressures/weight limit

[DJ62]

Struggling a little with the tyre pressures and weight limit on the motorhome after buying it secondhand 9 months ago - went to a local weigh-bridge and was very surprised at the total weight which was 180kg over the plate at 3500kg. Then started to look at the weight in more detail to see where we can save on the payload, totally emptied the water tank and took out 20kg of excess items in the van but previous owner has put on an air suspension system and with the roll out awning and spare wheel the payload is rapidly disappearing….. Does anyone have any tips for saving payload or had the same issue?

 

Also struggling with the correct tyre pressures which might be that the load on the rear axle is at its maximum - and have experienced some "wandering" on the motorway… any help would be most welcome

[Brian Kirby]

It is a 7.5 metre van with a very low manufacturer's published payload of 380kg. (MIRO 3120kg). That MIRO is likely to have been calculated with one German aluminium 11kg gas cylinder, possibly 90% fuel, and 20 litre of fresh water only. It will have omitted an awning (30kg?), the spare wheel (25kg?), possibly about 80kg of water and, I rather suspect, the difference in weight between two 13kg steel gas cylinders and the one 11kg aly one (36kg?). Say roughly 140kg in all. However, I doubt the air suspension has added significantly to the load problem.

 

I'd suggest you look for the original Fiat plate to see if that also states 3,500kg. If not, it is possible Burstner have plated it down to 3,500kg so that it can be driven on a car licence. If so, and a call to Burstner UK should confirm this, it would be possible to get the original MAM reinstated. The only snag with that would be if your licence doesn't permit you to drive over 3,500kg.

 

It seems you didn't get the individual axle loads when at the weighbridge, which is a shame, since I rather suspect the rear axle was then significantly overloaded, and its rear axle limit will prove the Achille's heel of the van. If the van is on 16" wheels this may be simply resolved by re-plating as above, but otherwise will be liable to require tyres with greater load carrying capacity as well as supplementary springing to increase its payload. Unless this is done, you will not get any usable benefit from increasing MAM.

 

The wandering is probably due in part to overload at the rear, coupled with a relatively lightly loaded front axle running on tyres at an unsuitably high pressure. If you can get, and keep, the rear axle load within legal limits, and get a weighbridge value for the front axle load, you can reduce the front tyre pressures to suit. This should reduce, and may completely eliminate, the wander.

 

Since the van is not that old, I rather suspect the original owner discovered what you now know, and decided to cut his losses by trading it for a van with a more workable payload, in preference to spending money trying to rectify what is, IMO, a heavily compromised van. Not a palatable course, but likely to be the best, most trouble-free, way out of your present position, IMO. Sorry!

 

If uncertain which way to jump, get a detailed costing of the price and practical implications (i.e. differing tyre sizes front and rear, or cost to change all 5) of increasing MAM and rear axle load before finally deciding, and then consider how close to the wind you'd have to sail to travel comfortably even with the enhanced loadings.

 

That same van was probably originally available on an optional 3,850kg chassis, on which it would have been a practical proposition.

 

If you have to stay at 3,500kg I would suggest looking for a smaller van, ideally somewhere less than 6.5 metres long. Much above that length, and the MIRO will rise to a similar value to your Solano. The longer the van, the more bodywork and interior fitments, the heavier it becomes. It is inescapable. Sorry again!

[Keithl]

Hi Debbie and welcome to the forum,

 

First a question, are you certain that your Burstner is plated at 3,500 kg and not something higher?

 

I only ask because our Auto Trail is up-rated to 3,800 kg but still wears it's Mercedes plate stating 3,500 kg. However under the bonnet is an Auto trail sticker advising of the increased weight and then the log book (V5C) quotes 3,800 kg and the vehicle is in VED tax band 'PHGV' again quoting a revenue weight of 3,800 kg.

 

So what does log book quote for revenue weight and what VED tax band is shown on the tax disc?

 

If all this comes back as 3,500 kg then I'm afraid I have to agree with Brian that you have been sold a pup :-(

 

Keith.

[betsy]

Hello,

Sorry to hear about your concerns over the weight of your Solano

I have a 2010 Solano t728 (with Ducato 3 litre engine and comfortmstic box) she also has the very stable Alko chassis and is on 16" wheels/tyres. She is plated by Burstner at 4,000 kg.

I have not yet taken her to a weighbridge and your query makes me think that I should, soon. After that I will be contacting the tyre manufacturers for advice on pressure. We are now running at the maximum recommended by Burstner.

From her documentation and our enquiries of a UK Burstner dealer, the original payload capability leaving the factory was supposed to be 850 kg but with lpg cylinders, awning and spare tyre (did not come supplied with one!) etc this is bound to be much reduced.

When we are away (usually in Europe) the 'van handles faultlessly and is very stable in corners and at speed. It is, in fact, the best, handling of the four vans that we have had (two Hymers and a big Rapido).

 

I too would be interested to hear what chassis you have and what size wheels/tyres you are running on. For the last owner to have fitted air suspension certainly, under the circumstances, raises an eyebrow. If you bought it from a dealer and it is virtually at its maximum weight it would seem to be not fit for purpose as it presently stands.

I hope you are able to resolve your issues.

Good luck

 

[StuartO]

You've had some excellent advice so i won;t repeat any of it - but you also asked about tyre pressures.

 

The maximum load which a tyre will take, at a specified maximum pressure, is shown on the tyre itself. Obviously you find out what that i and pump them up to the maximum to get th maximum load carrying ability.

 

Tyres of the same size ca have quite different load ratings, and with a second hand van it is possible that someone has replaced with a cheaper tyre which has a lower rating - so check.

 

Taking your tyres seriously is especially important to motorhomers because they are often the limiting factor on the vehicle's load carrying capacity. We knew nothing of payload when we bought our first MH, a 1989 Laika 57S, and we found out th hard way when we blew out a rear tyre.

 

The speed had built up abpve 65 mph, mayb even to 70 mph for about 60 seconds max as we ran down a hill on a motorway and bang! One of the yres simply exploded.

 

I replaced it, thinking it was just a bad tyre but the same thing happened again (in similar circumstances) a few months later. The increased speed (at overlaod weight) was enough to cause the tyre to fail. The penny dropped about payload and I started doing the relevant sums.

 

The motorhome was hopelessly short on usuable payload so I got rid of it and bought one which did have some payload!

[Derek Uzzell]

A Burstner 2011 technical file can be found here

 

http://www.buerstner.com/fileadmin/2011/Download/Reisemobile/Großbritannien/Buerstner_Technical_Data_Motorhomes_UK_2011.pdf

 

and includes the formula for how the Mass in Running Order is calculated.

 

A 2011 Solano T727 was evidently built as standard on a 3500kg ‘light’ Ducato chassis, with the 4000kg ‘heavy’ (Maxi) chassis as an option. Realistically, it’s unlikely that a 4000kg version could be operated legally if down-plated to 3500kg, but in Debbie’s case, if her T727 has 15”-diameter wheels, her motorhome will definitely have been built on a 3500kg chassis.

 

Assuming that the weighbridge was not over-reading (!), if it proves impracticable to operate the motorhome at 3500kg, it should be possible to ‘up-plate’ it to a higher figure. The SVTech company can advise on this

 

http://www.svtech.co.uk/motorhomes.html

http://www.svtech.co.uk/pdfforms/4x2ConvForm.pdf

 

Although the T727 model is quite long, it’s built on a 4100mm wheelbase and Debbie’s has rear-axle air-assistance. If the wheels are 15”-diameter, the tyres are likely to be 215/70 R15CP type and the Continental VancoCamper pattern. Given the motorhome’s specification, with those tyres I’d want to be using 5.5bar/80psi for the rear tyres and 5.0bar/72psi for the fronts.

 

If the vehicle ‘wanders’ occasionally on motorways, this is more likely to be due to the road surface than to any inherent fault with the vehicle. It MIGHT be possible to reduce the wandering by reducing the inflation pressure of the front tyres (though, frankly, I’m doubtful) but with this size and weight of motorhome I’d be reluctant to attempt that approach. I believe the front-tyre pressures would need to be lowered a lot to have any appreciable affect on wandering and doing this would have negative effects on cornering and braking. Basically, if the vehicle sometimes wanders on motorways, it’s better to live with that than try to improve matters by experimenting with significantly lowered tyre pressures. What it would be worth doing however, is to have the vehicle’s tracking professionally checked as, if that’s incorrect, a vehicle’s straightline stability (and tyre wear) can be badly affected.

 

 

[DJ62]

Hi Brian, Keith, Betsy, Stuart and Derek

 

Firstly can I say a massive thank you for the replies, just confirms what a helpful group you all are!!

 

So here is the update, I did get a front and rear axle weight on the weigh bridge , was a little nervous about posting it as with a MAM of 3500kg, the vehicle weighted 3680kg with a front axle weight of 1600kg and rear axle weight of 2080kg, with limits on front of 1850kg so OK , but 80kg over on the rear limit of 2000kg… so over the weekend, a massive weigh everything in the motorhome exercise and severe cutting back of some of the items….

 

So have dumped the water (60kg), dumped 2 full 5l bottles of drinking water (10kg) , dumped (20kg) of excess stuff in the cupboards, most on the back axle, taken out the spare wheel and support blocks (31kg), lost around (19kg) in the garage of things not necessary taking me to a net loss of around 140kg. I have also repacked some things in the garage into some empty space towards the front axle and can save another 10kg by dumping the water in the water heater. This would take me much nearer the limit of 3500kg with a full tank of field. There are some tins, wine and food stuffs that I could jettison if necessary. However the payload is very tight and not sure how we would fare if we decided to go on a long trip down to Spain which we have been considering :(

 

I was very interested to go and see what the front plate in the engine said (after the helpful comments) and the fiat plate is blank with an Alco plate detailing the same as the Burstner plate on the side i.e. 3500kg, 5500kg, (1) 1850kg and (2) 2000kg. We have shied away from over 3500kg as whilst I have a C1 licence my husband doesn't after being ill in 2002, but contacted the DVLA who said that with a doctors medical report and another form they could look to put the C1 class back on - we always thought that you had to take an additional test to have that reinstated so this is a plus and will look to see if he can get back his C1 class. Meanwhile Keith the V5 has the weight at 3500kg and I am going to phone Burstner with the chassis number to see if it can be replated upwards.

 

In terms of the tyres we have 215/70 R15 CP 109R 69 PSI so not sure what size wheels these are ?? As to the previous owner the reason for selling it was he was very ill with cancer ( which you could see from looking at him) and this was their pride and joy from new- they took it all the way to Spain with a mobility scooter onboard and the spare wheel, hence probably why they used a Kampa rally awning!! We have since added the 4 M Fiamma F45S and Isabella awning increasing the weight.

 

So we will see what Burstner have to say and see if the DVLA will put the C1 class back on - will keep you all posted

 

Debbie

 

[DJ62]

Hi Betsy

 

I should have said in the following post that he fitted the air suspension system to improve ride handling and also for taking it over on the ferry to Spain so that it raised the rear of the vehicle when driving onto the ferry…

 

Debbie

 

[Brian Kirby]

First thing is I don't think there is any point talking to Burstner, it is SV Tech you need for the re-plating. However, you will need to tell them your van is on an AlKo chassis.

 

As you were overweight at the rear, and comfortable at the front, it is the rear on which you need to concentrate. You can raise the MAM by whatever extent, but your limittaion will still be that rear axle.

 

It may be worth contecting AlKo UK with the details of their plate to see if they can advise on increasing the rear axle limit. They do produce air assistance units to suit their chassis and axle, but I don't know if they would permit a higher load, or whether the whole axle would need to be replaced to achieve that - assuming the chassis is adequate. The main trick of the AlKo chassis is that it is light, so I'd imagine the loading tolerances are not that great. However, they make them, and no-one else will know more about their limitations than they do, so I think pretty well the only place to get expert guidance.

 

Your wheels are 15", which is what the 15 in the tyre size indicates. The maximum axle load your tyres can support is 2060kg, which means that any increase in the rear axle load will need new tyres. I think your best choice from Continental would be 225/70 R15 C 112/110R, that will support 2240kg. It is slightly larger diameter than the existing, so would slightly increase overall gearing and may make the speedometer a little slow, but it may be possible to correct that on the vehicle electronics.

 

However, I suspect any of the above are going to be quite costly exercises, so I advise making sure you know how much the lot will cost before you commit to the first step. My point is that you really need a van with a higher payload, so that dodging overload isn't a major consideration every trip and, since you are presently limited to 3,500kg (with only the possibility of gaining more), that really points to van with a lower MIRO which, in turn, points to a smaller van. My personal view is that it may be better (and not necessarily that much more costly overall) to just cut you losses and trade what you have for something that will work better for you. Sorry!