Brian Kirby Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 An alternative to leaving the heating on at all times would be to leave the water heating on. Depending on the actual location of the dump valve, this should create enough warmth in the vicinity of the heater to prevent the dump valve opening. Same principle, but should consume less gas. Otherwise, a sprung type wooden clothes peg placed around the neck of the red valve button should hold it in the closed position as Derek suggests, with the proviso this is only left in place during cold spells if either heating, or water heating, are operating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think just having a Truma C-Series heater switched on overrides the operation of the electric safety/drain valve, and it doesn’t matter whether air or water heating has been selected or what the temperature at the drain valve is. The Operating Instructions for C-4002 and C-6002 heaters include the following advice: "The safety/drain valve is held closed by an electrical coil. To save battery power, we recommend to open the valve if the vehicle is not in use for a prolonged period." "If the temperature at the safety/drain valve is less than 4°C, the water contents may discharge on its own accord if the appliance is not in operation (also if there is a failure). To avoid water loss, switch the device on (summer or winter operation) and close the safety/drain valve at the actuating button by raising it up. Without heater operation, the safety/drain valve can only be closed again at temperatures above 8°C”. "Filling the water heater - Close electrical safety/drain valve at the control knob by lifting up. At temperatures of around 8°C and less, switch on the heater or water heater first, to make sure the valve does not open again.” If the above is correct, then switching the heater on and selecting ‘Winter operation (heating without hot water requirement” (ie air-heating only) on the control-switch and with the rotary ‘room temperature’ dial at its mininum setting should allow the safety/drain valve to be closed and not reopen, but not use any gas unless the motorhome’s interior is at ice-box temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grmps Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Thanks, folks. I guess I just have to consider the syphon action as a "feature". I have noted the options to bypass the problem. I will investigate the cowl thing further. Currently I don't understand if it safe to travel with the gas heating on, so I have not done so - and as a consequence spilled all my fresh water over the road at Glencoe. Better than blood, I suppose ;-) Thanks...Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 All Truma ‘combination’ air/water heaters are certified to be capable of being operated safely in a moving vehicle provided that they have been installed according to Truma’s instructions. In practice, there is more of a ‘legality’ issue than a ‘safety’ one. Truma’s advice (in the Installation Instructions for C-4002 and C-6002 heaters) is as follows: “INTENDED USE This appliance is designed for installation in mobile homes, caravans and boats. The equipment must not be installed in busses or vehicles for transporting hazardous goods (vehicle classes M2 and M3). if the appliance is to be installed inn special vehicles, always observe the respectively valid regulations. Other forms of use are also possible after consultation with Truma. APPROVAL A safety shut-off device is required in accordance with directive 2004/78/EC Annex VIII if motorhomes or caravans are being heated whilst driving. The Truma SecuMotion gas pressure regulator meets this requirement. Throughout Europe, a type-tested liquified-gas heating system may be used while driving (according to the EU directive 2001/56/EC) if the system includes a regulator with an appropriately configured gas installation.” An example of a SecuMotion gas-regulator + special hose is shown here http://www.southdownsmotorcaravans.co.uk/accessories/truma_drive-safe_secumotion.php (There are later, different variants.) If your Champ has a SecuMotion system, it should be legal and safe to operate the heater when travelling - though it has to be said that the idea of running a gas-heater in a moving vehicle will be frowned on by many motorcaravanners (though not by me!) Have you got Truma Installation and Operating Instruction documentation for your heater? If not, you should be able to downoad the relevant documents from here http://dealer.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma-Katalog/index_gb.html?&language=en_gb&dataLanguage=en_gb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-02-06 1:35 PM I think just having a Truma C-Series heater switched on overrides the operation of the electric safety/drain valve, and it doesn’t matter whether air or water heating has been selected or what the temperature at the drain valve is. The Operating Instructions for C-4002 and C-6002 heaters include the following advice: "The safety/drain valve is held closed by an electrical coil. To save battery power, we recommend to open the valve if the vehicle is not in use for a prolonged period." "If the temperature at the safety/drain valve is less than 4°C, the water contents may discharge on its own accord if the appliance is not in operation (also if there is a failure). To avoid water loss, switch the device on (summer or winter operation) and close the safety/drain valve at the actuating button by raising it up. Without heater operation, the safety/drain valve can only be closed again at temperatures above 8°C”. "Filling the water heater - Close electrical safety/drain valve at the control knob by lifting up. At temperatures of around 8°C and less, switch on the heater or water heater first, to make sure the valve does not open again.” If the above is correct, then switching the heater on and selecting ‘Winter operation (heating without hot water requirement” (ie air-heating only) on the control-switch and with the rotary ‘room temperature’ dial at its mininum setting should allow the safety/drain valve to be closed and not reopen, but not use any gas unless the motorhome’s interior is at ice-box temperature. Thanks for this Derek. On reflection, it must be the case that merely having the heater turned on in whatever mode will override the operation of the dump valve. So, heating on in winter or summer mode should prevent the problem once sited, with only the problem of excessive chill when travelling to cause trouble. Under those circumstances, providing the Secumotion/Drivesafe regulator is fitted, leaving the heating running is either mode would prevent the water dumping in transit. Using a peg in really cold weather may not be the most prudent option, so I guess getting the regulator and pigtail/s changed for the version incorporating the safety cut-offs would be the best permanent fix. I understand these are now available for retro-fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Been reading this thread with interest. My anti-frost dump valve is the original electric type, so as long as it lasts I should be able to fill up with water when the MH is very cold, simply by switching on the heating, which overrides the dumpvalve and forces it to stay closed, even before the MH has started heating up. But the electric dump valve has been superceded by a non-electrical and completely independent one, which presumably is not held closed when the heating is switched on. If you have one of these you will need to heat the MH up to provide an ambient temperature around the valve above the critical temperature before you can fill the boiler with water. Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 If you read further back on the thread you will see this has already been discussed. There is an optional electrical heater for the new valve. The new valve has the advantage that it does not dump until temp down to 3 deg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myfanwy Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 I think I’m addressing this to Derek who seems to be the OAAL guru... My dripping Truma frost protection valve is getting worse. I suspect my use of two clothes pegs to keep it closed has exerted too much force on the seal. I see that manual valves are available but not necessarily for my 2007 Hobby with Truma C4002. The big question for me is - what happens to the 12v supply? Can I just leave it tied up to a local pipe/cable? Any recommendation for the replacement manual valve? Cheers, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Myfanwy - 2021-08-07 2:06 PM I think I’m addressing this to Derek who seems to be the OAAL guru... My dripping Truma frost protection valve is getting worse. I suspect my use of two clothes pegs to keep it closed has exerted too much force on the seal. I see that manual valves are available but not necessarily for my 2007 Hobby with Truma C4002. The big question for me is - what happens to the 12v supply? Can I just leave it tied up to a local pipe/cable? Any recommendation for the replacement manual valve? Cheers, Pete Pete, It appears that your post here has largely gone unnoticed so I would suggest you repost your question as a new thread under MotorHome Matters where it should get more visibility. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Pete When a Truma electrical safety/drain valve has begun to leak, it’s often been suggested on forums that this may be due to muck/debris within the valve preventing the seal from ‘seating’ properly and that repeatedly ‘flushing’ water through the valve may dislodge the obstruction and stop the leakage. But, as your valve is now 14 years old and the leak is worsening, I’m doubtful that approach would be effective. My 2005 Hobby’s water system used Jubilee hose-clips on the water hoses throughout and the hoses connecting to the Truma valve used that attachment method as shown in the 1st image below. If your 2007 Hobby also uses Jubilee hose-clips, whatever valve you choose for replacement should have a ‘barbed’ inlet and outlet on to which the water hoses are pushed. Your best choices are either Truma’s Frost Control valve (example advert here and 2nd image below) https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/gas/caravan-gas-water-heater/truma-combi-4-6-l.p.-gas-and-electric-heater-spare-parts/truma-release-valve-kit or Truma’s (much cheaper) basic safety/drain valve that has no anti-frost protection feature (example advert here and 3rd image below) https://leisurelines.net/truma-safety-drain-valve-28-bar-barbed-for-hose-4625-p.asp As you’ve been accustomed to disabling your current valve with clothes pegs, you might as well go for the latter. The 4th image below shows a drain valve’s wiring.The red cable would be connected to a continuous-current (+) 12V fused vehicle power supply. (1Amp fuse). The brown cable is provided for an (optional) control-unit for remotely opening the drain valve. The white/red and white/green cables go into a plastic plug/socket with the two cables leading onwards from that plug/socket eventually ending up in a plug that connects into the heater’s PCB that is under a cover on the heater’s side. To remove the electric safety/drain valve, you’ll need to disconnect the plastic plug/socket and do what’s necessary with the red cable. This might mean removing the fuse, cutting the red cable and tying it up, or you might be able to disconnect the red cable if Hobby has fitted a connector on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 A ‘for what it’s worth’ follow up... This 2017 French forum thread discussed repairing a Truma electric safety/drain valve https://www.campingcar-bricoloisirs.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=40771 There was no real conclusion other than that obtaining replacement seals (presumably from Truma) wasn’t possible, but a photo (copy attached below) shows the valve’s interior. It looks like it’s not too difficult to disassemble the valve and I suspect the water sealing principles will be similar to that of the “Frost Control” valve. But - as the French thread says - if substitute seals were fitted - the only way to check if the valve then worked properly would be by trial and error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexsmith Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Anyone have any advice on propane truma water heater.Pulled Into Yellowstone National Park and filled my propane tank it was halfway.Stayed at a park with full hookup The low at night was about 28ﾟ Park Manger suggested disconnecting the water so that their pipe did not freeze They had a separate heater on it. And the water was ice cold.Everything was fine until the 1st morning taking a shower the water started out hot and then went to Luke warm and never recovered.If I shut it off for about 15 seconds and then turn it back on it comes back hot but then immediately goes to lukewarm Again.I spoke with a representative from the company Any took me through a series of troubleshooting Techniques.To which neither gave any indication Of a problem for a solution.The last suggestion he gave me is to have LP service man adj. The regulator to a higher pressure.I have not done anything yet ..the coach is only 1 year old and never had this problem before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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