Jonboymentalhealth Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Hi all, I'm new to your forum and to the world of motorhoming. My gf and me put a deposit down on a ci riviera 171 07 plate nearly four weeks ago for our selves our chocolate lab and hopefully at some point family. Hit a minor hick up at mo as the dealer called me yesterday to say whilst carrying habitation check they found some damp, he said its fixable but may take some time so if we wanted our deposit back. I said we would wait as it took us 6 months to find this van, he then went on to say he is selling for a third party so will contact them to see if there happy to pay for the work. Fingers crossed this will get sorted as I have got carried away and already bought all the plates towels toiletries bedding etc and even sorted a space in storage facility. So hopefully be joining you all on the road soon, if there are any other 171 users any tips advice greatly received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think you would be well advised to get over to the dealer PDQ, to see what he is talking about, both in terms of the damp and its extent, and also how he thinks it can be fixed. You are the person with the greatest interest in how this work is carried out. If the seller is being asked to fund the work, his interest is likely to be minimising cost. So too will the dealer, if the present owner is reluctant to bear the full cost. Damp ingress that is only "cured" with a couple of cartridges of silicone sealant is not damp ingress that has been cured at all. It has just been postponed for a while. If I may say, I think you are being dangerously (in your own interests) relaxed about this. Damp ingress destroys motorhomes. It can be cured, but depending on how far it has penetrated, and for how long, it is a time consuming and expensive job. You really don't want to inherit that liability through badly executed cheap repairs. It is obviously your call, but unless you are fully satisfied that the ingress is minor and relatively recent, I'd take up his offer and get your deposit back. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Welcome, the dealer must be complimented on sorting out the issue before you were even aware if it. Who was it? I hope the seller is happy to pay for it, they probably didn't know either. I wish I had read through this forum before I bought what is a big investment. I was lucky, even though payload is an issue I have still to sort properly. If the sale stalls, don't worry, there are plenty of MH's for sale and experience is an invaluable asset.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I personally would thank them very much for bringing it to your attention, then look elsewhere, you've got all winter presumably, and because of the time of year a very good chance of bagging a bargain, and seeing dealers ( or private sellers ) breakdown in tears because of the price you offer is always heartwarming. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I agree with everything said so far. As the van is now 7 years old chances are the damp has been there for years just waiting for the opportunity to be discovered and all credit to the dealer for doing just that. Are there any records of previous habitation checks which should have but may well not have picked it up? Any chance of speaking to the owner to find out why he is selling it and what he knows of the history? I too would want to ensure the work is carried out to perfection as a botched job will return to haunt you in years to come and that would include seeing and photographing it in it's taken apart condition and a watertight (sorry!) guarantee that should the problem recur within a year they will resolve it for you - and then make darned sure you get it professionally damp checked after 11 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Joe90 - 2014-10-30 7:21 PM I personally would thank them very much for bringing it to your attention, then look elsewhere, you've got all winter presumably, and because of the time of year a very good chance of bagging a bargain, and seeing dealers ( or private sellers ) breakdown in tears because of the price you offer is always heartwarming. ;-) Personally I would consider a properly repaired and warranted van to be as good if not better bet than an unknown quantity which may or may not have a hidden problem just waiting to surface as damp affects far too many new and used vans for comfort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboymentalhealth Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 To be fair I took it as a positive he told me and was thinking the same a we'll repaired van is better than an unknown, they are a big dealership and also take care of their own warranty work in house. What made me more confident was when he offered my deposit back he said I need to know when I sell a van it is right. My biggest concern is now if the owner won't agree to fix it I think he will not sell the van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboymentalhealth Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Oh and yes it had full service and habitation history apart from one year in 2011 and one owner since new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Jonboymentalhealth - 2014-10-30 7:56 PM Oh and yes it had full service and habitation history apart from one year in 2011 and one owner since new Sounds promising, but when the damp is fully uncovered you will see the extent of staining if you are lucky or rot if you are not that will become apparent and this will tell you whether the leak is new or old. Should be an interesting learning curve for you so do let us know how you get on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I won't bother telling you my experience of a VERY large dealership, and their impressive sounding warranty..............................until I'd paid my cash. and the problems soon emerged, but good luck whatever you decide, you may get lucky.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Joe90 - 2014-10-30 7:21 PM I personally would thank them very much for bringing it to your attention, then look elsewhere, you've got all winter presumably, and because of the time of year a very good chance of bagging a bargain, and seeing dealers ( or private sellers ) breakdown in tears because of the price you offer is always heartwarming. ;-) I would agree, take back your deposit 'Gratefully' and thank your lucky stars for an honest (ish) dealer. I have read (in the MMM) of several ' CI Coachbuilts' with Leaky Overcabs, from that era, and the photo's were ' Scary' of the damage caused. It can be hard, but I would walk away. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 A question, if the dealer is selling for a third party is he offering any kind of warranty or is it 'Sold as seen'? If the latter then walk away now. If he is offering a warranty then check the small print for any exclusions and conditions. Many times a warranty is only an insurance policy and is not worth the paper it is written on. And before anyone chimes in, Yes I know there are also good ones, but buyer beware!!! Another question, you mention 'hopefully a family later' so how many belted travel seats does this MH have? If none in the rear then it is not suitable for a family. Walk away and find one that does. Good luck with whatever you do buy, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboymentalhealth Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 It has 4 belted seats that was part of the criteria and the warranty is with them so they fix any issues not send of to another company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I would hardly call water ingress a minor hiccup. Whilst the repairs may well be done to a good standard, short of actually overseeing the work you will be none the wiser, and it begs the question - why was there a failure in the first place. Remember, some van designs are inherently flawed, and whilst CI seem to have stepped up their structural build quality in the last couple of years, I would suggest that some of CI's earlier assembly procedures were certainly 'old school' The dealer has to be applauded for at least bringing it to your attention, but personally I'd take the money and look elsewhere. Take a look at all the horror stories on here and other websites and think yourself lucky you have the option to walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I would be inclined to walk away. I have had experience of damp in caravans. The difficult bit is finding out where the water is getting in as water will capillary through the polystyrene insulation and the damp will often surface quite a few meters from the ingress point. You often find yourself repairing one area and a year or so later you find another area with damp and it often just goes on. I really do not think it is worth taking the risk, you could end up with an unsaleable van a few years down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Take the money and run. There will always be another van somewhere that does not have this problem. If you read the archives damp and water ingress is the worst thing possible. Say thank you to the nice dealer on your way out. Quick search on AutoTrader shows that Oaktree Motorhomes has the same model for sale right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The problem that faces the OP is that this model from this maker seems to be the only one that fits what he feels are his specific needs and that alone restricts his options. Given that CI were never a 'high end' converter and they do have something of a reputation for leaky vans might well prevent the more experienced amongst us from ever buying one there are also plenty of other makers with similar lack of quality and construction integrity. So it all hinges on whether 'tis better to know the problem, have the source of the ingress sorted and start off with a watertight van and warranty or whether 'tis better to take a chance on another that might or might not be any better because damp ingress can be present for a long time before it shows up. At the very least I would get my own cheap damp meter, something like this maybe, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prosteruk-Digital-Moisture-Humidity-Detector/dp/B00L7B7H34/ref=sr_1_2?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1414754689&sr=1-2&keywords=damp+meter and make a point of checking everywhere in this or any other van and if he decides to stay with this van follow closely the repair sequence to see where the ingress starts and the resultant damage ends. Most coachbuilt and A class vans leak sooner, later or eventually it seems and some are rather more prone to sooner than others and buying a new or used van is often little more than a lottery. As an example, many years ago (1980's) I had a Bedford CF Dormobile Deauville which had a 'small damp patch' in one corner. It took me several months of removing furniture etc to trace and seal the leak and it involved replacing part of the floor, one side wall, one side window frame and several square feet of ceiling. Leaving it sealed but open for a month in winter showed that once done it did not leak again in the two years we kept it but there was never any guarantee that it would not leak again at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboymentalhealth Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 This was my thinking, yes there are other vans the same on the market but the dealers may be less honest at least with this I would be starting okay and with a dealer warranty. My thinking was if I do go ahead go get another habitation check done in 6 months elsewhere for impartial opinion and if any problems found take it back whilst still under warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 How long would you intend keeping the van? If only a year or so, your thinking is probbaly safe enough. However, if you want to keep it several years, I still think taking it on is an avoidable risk. You really need to know where the water is getting in, and why. If it is a combination of poor workmanship and inadequate materials, consider that the same will be true more generally, so it would be wise to plan for more, similar, leaks in the longer term. If it identifiably just an area of damage, or an isolated instance of a sealant miss, and you can be confident of that, OK. I think you may be being lulled into a false sense of security by the dealer's honesty, which is commendable, but there are few vans with unique layouts, so it should be possible to locate others that will be suitable. Maybe ask him if he can find you one? Look at the manufacturer's group products, most "clone" their vans under different badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboymentalhealth Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm waiting for a call back, so I can go see the van for myself to see what the extent of the dampness is , I won't decide till I've seen it in the stopped back state in the workshop, as all the suggestions have been very useful. I just presume buying any second hand van will carry the same risk as it is said it can take along time to spot damp. If I go elsewhere and buy a van with a clear habitation check there's still no guarantees could just be a less honest sales man. Personally I wouldn't be confident spending my money on a private sale either which narrows my options further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 You are clearly set on buying this van - and I'm not sure you could be persuaded otherwise...... If that is the case, then I suggest you go and take a good hard look at it again. And I mean look everywhere - inside, outside and most importantly, underneath. Get the dealer to show you the extent of the damage, but remember what you might be viewing is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg..... You may think this appears to be scaremongering, but believe me if the damage is excessive, or you cannot guarantee the remedial work has really isolated the problem your woes will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 If you would like to name the dealer concerned others on here may have experience of them that they could share with you as there is sometimes a lot of difference between what dealers say they will do and what dealers actually do, particularly with warranties once they have your money. It pays to be politely cynical rather than overtly trusting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboymentalhealth Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 The dealer is go european in gailey Staffordshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Jonboymentalhealth - 2014-10-31 12:28 PM The dealer is go european in gailey Staffordshire next to Dobbies garden centre (!) Do they have a workshop there now, only a couple of portacabins when we looked at some of their stock a while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboymentalhealth Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yes that's the one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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