tonyfletcher Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Hi I am getting close to requiring a new clutch on my 12 plate Ducato 2.3. Anyone got any ideas on costs? I have been informed that I may require a new slave cylinder as a precaution. Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 ...don't know about the cost, but if I'd seen a clutch off in something less than 3 years, I be wondering about the cause (or worried about my driving skills :-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyfletcher Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 I've got that part of the theory covered. It's the worse case scenario I'm interested in. Thanks for your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-Ducato-Clutch-failer-9400-miles/29068/ whilst for an earlier X250, may give an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Hello If the vehicle has an internal/concentric slave cylinder/release bearing. It is recommended to replace it. It is always recommended to replace the release bearing when replacing a clutch. The type I mentioned above is one in the same and requires removing of the transmission to replace. The last thing you would want is to have to pay the labour again, should it fail later. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Wasn't Me - 2014-11-12 10:02 PM Hello If the vehicle has an internal/concentric slave cylinder/release bearing. It is recommended to replace it. It is always recommended to replace the release bearing when replacing a clutch. The type I mentioned above is one in the same and requires removing of the transmission to replace. The last thing you would want is to have to pay the labour again, should it fail later. Hope this helps That sounds expensive ?8-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polo Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I have found the main dealer price for large items like that are often very good as they are a set price deal. Also genuine parts and guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 tonyfletcher - 2014-11-12 5:29 PM Hi I am getting close to requiring a new clutch on my 12 plate Ducato 2.3. Anyone got any ideas on costs? I have been informed that I may require a new slave cylinder as a precaution. Cheers Tony I have a 2012 Autotrail as well, could you tell me how you know that your Clutch needs replacing ? and how many miles have you covered (not being sarcastic), just a bit concerned, as I have to reverse up a steep drive every time I park my van at home, and have never had to replace a clutch before. At least not on a 'nearly new' vehicle, I have on 'old bangers' in my youth. ;-) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I would certainly seek a second opinion as a 2/3 year old motorhome needing a new clutch suggest something drastically wrong. When changing a clutch one should replace clutch plate, pressure plate and thrust bearing. Changing the slave cylinder on mine would be a 20 minute job and unless leaking fluid would leave well alone. Just get the feeling you are being taken advantage of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I have to agree with 'Wasn't Me', most modern slave cylinders are of the Concentric type and are fitted directly behind the release bearing, around the gearbox input shaft, and replacement necessitates removal of the gearbox exactly as for clutch replacement. As an example 5 or 6 years ago I had the slave cylinder on a Ford Ka fail and the best price to replace it was from a local dealer who had clutch replacements on offer at 'Only' £450, plus the cost of the slave cylinder obviously! So if I had not done it myself I would have had to fork out over £500 for a simple slave cylinder replacement. Best advice is to replace a concentric slave cylinder at the same time as the clutch. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Cup Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Is it an engine out job on these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Tea Cup - 2014-11-13 2:42 PM Is it an engine out job on these? As far as I know the gearbox is on one end of the transverse power unit and can be removed from below leaving the engine in place. It's not a five minute job though! I had a word with my local garage. Can't remember doing a Fiat but they've done lots of Renaults because they look after a fleet o private ambulances. Clutch job takes about 5 hours, they always replace the dual mass flywheel as well as the clutch and thrust bearing parts. My local Fiat Professional garage quoted £500 for labour and £760 parts including VAT. The dual mass flywheel costs £430 plus VAT, twice as much as the clutch kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 It will only have a dual mass flywheel it it is a Comformatic manual version has a solid flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Is the Comformatic gearbox the answer to the clutch issue? Apart from using common sense and not abusing it, is there any special maintenance required with this box or can it just be forgotten Lenny? I'm curious really as automatics seem to be the future especially in the Hgv world. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Hawcara - 2014-11-13 5:47 PM Is the Comformatic gearbox the answer to the clutch issue? Apart from using common sense and not abusing it, is there any special maintenance required with this box or can it just be forgotten Lenny? I'm curious really as automatics seem to be the future especially in the Hgv world. :-D Walton Summit Trucks at Walton-le Dale, Preston service a large fleet of Fiat 3ltr Comfortmatic Ambulances that run 24 hours a day 7 days a week. They cover a minimum 250,000 miles before any major work is required. The clutches are doing in excess of 100,000 miles before they need changing and some do many more than that. What needs to be considered is that they won't always be running at maximum weight like motorhomes are. I have a Comfort-matic and think it's great. I will be taking delivery of another one in a couple of weeks time. 3 ltr powered of course. As regards HGV's, automatics have been on large fleets for some considerable time and run trouble free covering extremely high mileages. I'm not aware of any clutch failures in any fleet that I'm familiar with. My favourite HGV is Volvo which has the best exhaust brake in the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Thank you Rolandrat for that. Your 3 ltr unit drives which motorhome? I understand from a relation in the Hgv world that the new auto boxes on Hgv's are up to 1mpg more efficient than a driver using a manual. This person operates Renaults which is owned by Volvo I understand and they rate this box higher than that fitted to the Daf equivalent. I just wondered about servicing or other points of note to do with the Comformatic. Sadly one mostly hears of faults with Fiat, very few state the positive and those that have the Comformatic seem rare, thus first hand experience is of value. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Hawcara - 2014-11-13 5:47 PM Is the Comformatic gearbox the answer to the clutch issue? Apart from using common sense and not abusing it, is there any special maintenance required with this box or can it just be forgotten Lenny? I'm curious really as automatics seem to be the future especially in the Hgv world. :-D Never had a clutch issue on my last van which was a 2008 2.3 130 multijet. The Comformatic works well the clutch take up when pulling away is not noticeable, very smooth. Like the manual it's not too keen on being reversed onto ramps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-11-13 8:17 PM Hawcara - 2014-11-13 5:47 PM Is the Comformatic gearbox the answer to the clutch issue? Apart from using common sense and not abusing it, is there any special maintenance required with this box or can it just be forgotten Lenny? I'm curious really as automatics seem to be the future especially in the Hgv world. :-D Never had a clutch issue on my last van which was a 2008 2.3 130 multijet. The Comformatic works well the clutch take up when pulling away is not noticeable, very smooth. Like the manual it's not too keen on being reversed onto ramps. I'm intrigued. What special maintenance is required on a Fiat with Comfortmatic gearbox? To my knowledge there is absolutely no additional maintenance required. Any problems that have occurred with the Comfortmatic seem to be mainly electrical issues and nothing to do with the box itself. As for reversing I have never had a problem despite the fact that I have a steep drive to negotiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southender Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 8 years and 44,000miles and mines still fine, think you need to look at your driving technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Mike88 - 2014-11-13 9:08 PM lennyhb - 2014-11-13 8:17 PM Hawcara - 2014-11-13 5:47 PM Is the Comformatic gearbox the answer to the clutch issue? Apart from using common sense and not abusing it, is there any special maintenance required with this box or can it just be forgotten Lenny? I'm curious really as automatics seem to be the future especially in the Hgv world. :-D Never had a clutch issue on my last van which was a 2008 2.3 130 multijet. The Comformatic works well the clutch take up when pulling away is not noticeable, very smooth. Like the manual it's not too keen on being reversed onto ramps. I'm intrigued. What special maintenance is required on a Fiat with Comfortmatic gearbox? To my knowledge there is absolutely no additional maintenance required. Any problems that have occurred with the Comfortmatic seem to be mainly electrical issues and nothing to do with the box itself. As for reversing I have never had a problem despite the fact that I have a steep drive to negotiate. Nick Fisher (euroserv) mentions a 2-year requirement to change hydraulic fluid on the ComfortMatic transmission fitted to 3.0litre motors http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/3-0-comfort-matic-gearbox-failure/34325/ though the information in the Fiat ComfortMatic supplement suggests that the fluid should be checked then, but not necessarily replaced. It’s also become evident that (at least with the latest Ducato X290) that the gear ratios of ComfortMatic gearboxes differ from those fitted to manual transmissions. As far as clutch problems are concerned generally, it’s very often the driver that must bear a high percentage of the blame. Robotised manual tranmissions (like ComfortMatic) largely remove the driver from the clutch-operation equation and it should be expected that this will help with clutch longevity. The potential downside of this type of transmission is the extra technical complexity needed to automate the gear-changing process. The future looks like involving a return to the traditional torque-converter transmission with lots more ratios than in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-11-13 3:38 PM It will only have a dual mass flywheel it it is a Comformatic manual version has a solid flywheel. Do you know that for sure Lenny? It will make a big, big difference to the cost. I gave the Fiat garage my reg number to look up the cost of parts so they should have got it right. My local garage said that all diesels have dual mass flywheels these days - but he couldn't remember doing a Fiat so he might be mistaken. I looked on the Fiat forum and on there is says the 244 Series Ducato has a solid flywheel - but no mention of Comfortmatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 2.3 engine has solid flywheel but cam belt. Swings and roundabouts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 StuartO - 2014-11-14 8:55 AM lennyhb - 2014-11-13 3:38 PM It will only have a dual mass flywheel it it is a Comformatic manual version has a solid flywheel. Do you know that for sure Lenny? It will make a big, big difference to the cost. Yes, 2.3 Fiat X250 Manual has a solid flywheel, the 2.3 Fiat Comformatic X250 has a dual mass flywheel, all 3Lt Fiat X250 engines have a dual mass flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 This is a twin axle van with an MAM of 4,250kg and a MIRO of nearly 3,500kg - probably more with options. It is going to be a bit hard on clutches. Tony tows a Hyundai Hyundai i10 on an A frame. So, it is going to be a bit harder on clutches. I assume Tony is aware of the state of his clutch because it has begun to slip. Given the total load he is shifting he may have been better off with a 3 litre rather than a 2.3, as the added torque would have enabled lower revs to be used to drive away. But, he is where he is. I assume he has by now asked his garage (possibly others) for an estimate of the cost. There will be a standard time allowance for the job, to be charged at local rates, plus parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 To change the clutch on a 3ltr Comfort-matic I was told by Walton Summit Truck to allow for a minimum of a full day, it's the most costly work to carry out at about £1,300, but there again how many owners do high mileages. My mileage this year is just under 8000 miles which included Southern Spain then on up through France to Calais and onward home to NE Lancs. Apart from having to have a nearside window mechanism replaced the tour was trouble free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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