E bikes in Spain .... again

[Gwendolyn]

Spotted this [re electric bike public liability insurance in Spain] on the Caravan Club Forum tonight:

 

"Does the ACSI membership ID card, or the Camping Key Europe ETC, cards with liability insurance not cover you for this?"

 

HMMMM>>> Can't you just picture the scene:

 

Act 1: Scene 1: A Street In Benidorm. Policeman apprehending 2 e-bike riders:

 

Mrs, looking on nervously, fingering her pearls, patting her perm and clutching her handbag; Mr, wearing Rohan shorts and Cotton Traders sandals and socks, moustache at the bristle, offering his Camping Carnet to the Spanish cop:

 

By Gad Sir, I am English, and, what is more, a member of THE CARAVAN CLUB!

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Looks like you've met a few of us CC members Gwendolyn :D ..............Although I tend not to wear my pearls in public now days ;-).............

[Guest JudgeMental]

How many times does this have to be said?

 

If bike has independent throttle it is outside european EPAC rules and NOT strictly legal in Spain?

 

you cant just copy any old COC and pass it around, as they are specific to manufacture and model of bike. if bike is complaint it will have an EN sticker on the frame...I must have said his 20 times on here... its like talking to a wall!lol

 

if the man with the gun bothers to stop and bike not compliant, pearls and CC membership wont do you much good!lol He will be looking for moped insurance? NOT third party ( a potential 1500€ fine)

 

http://www.bike-eu.com/Laws-Regulat...al-legislation-and-CEN-standards--BIK004232W/

 

"As for marking:

a) the frame must be visibly and permanently marked with a serial number at a readily visible location;

 

b) the frame must be visibly and durably marked, with the name of the manufacturer or the manufacturer's representative and the number of European Standard, i.e. EN 14764;

 

c) the vehicle must be durably marked with the following words: EPAC according to En 15194;

 

d) xx km/h, i.e. cut off speed;

 

e) xx W, i.e. electric motor maximum continuous rated power."

 

 

Sorry..but would hate to see anyone end up at the wrong end of a fine. You may well be OK as people are saying its only isolated cases. What ever you decide surely better to travel being aware of the situation and potential risk.....

[malc d]

Gwendolyn - 2014-12-06 12:12 AM

 

Spotted this [re electric bike public liability insurance in Spain] on the Caravan Club Forum tonight:

 

"Does the ACSI membership ID card, or the Camping Key Europe ETC, cards with liability insurance not cover you for this?"

 

 

 

Sounds like a matter of not reading the small print.

 

I would assume that any ACSI insurance is similar to Camping Carnet third party insurance which ( if I remember correctly !) just covers accidents on camp sites.

 

 

;-)

[Gwendolyn]

JudgeMental - 2014-12-06 10:11 AM

 

How many times does this have to be said?

 

If bike has independent throttle it is outside european EPAC rules and NOT strictly legal in Spain?

 

you cant just copy any old COC and pass it around, as they are specific to manufacture and model of bike. if bike is complaint it will have an EN sticker on the frame...I must have said his 20 times on here... its like talking to a wall!lol

 

if the man with the gun bothers to stop and bike not compliant, pearls and CC membership wont do you much good!lol He will be looking for moped insurance? NOT third party ( a potential 1500€ fine)

 

http://www.bike-eu.com/Laws-Regulat...al-legislation-and-CEN-standards--BIK004232W/

 

"As for marking:

a) the frame must be visibly and permanently marked with a serial number at a readily visible location;

 

b) the frame must be visibly and durably marked, with the name of the manufacturer or the manufacturer's representative and the number of European Standard, i.e. EN 14764;

 

c) the vehicle must be durably marked with the following words: EPAC according to En 15194;

 

d) xx km/h, i.e. cut off speed;

 

e) xx W, i.e. electric motor maximum continuous rated power."

 

 

Sorry..but would hate to see anyone end up at the wrong end of a fine. You may well be OK as people are saying its only isolated cases. What ever you decide surely better to travel being aware of the situation and potential risk.....

 

Yes... message had been received and understood by me. Not sure to whom the "you" is directed.

 

I was merely quoting a post on the CC forum, which people on here may find amusing, or alternatively scary, in its naivety.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I just copied what I said from another thread as sick to death repeating myself, but still would hate to see anyone fall foul of the law. A load of waffle being spouted on this subject on all forums.. while looking for your CC thread found one on MHF running to six pages. One chap very simply and diplomatically explains the situation early on, but people seem incapable of taking the info in..presumably because they dont like what they here...extraordinary!

 

The latest seems to be "stick a self tapping in screw in throttle" this along with 3rd party insurance wont work as bike still not compliant. As I said above they will be looking for a compliant bike with EC sticker or production of a specific COC which certain UK bike do not have....they will want to see a serial number to support any paperwork.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Found it and you are right..the nonsense is legion!lol surprised there was not a call for the kippers to get us out of Europe right now! some people can be real thick and caravanners by the looks of it thicker than usual :D

 

Maybe now they will start to realise how crap the majority of there cheap chinese bikes are...... :-D

 

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/community/discussions/sites-touring/overseas-sites-touring/Electric-bikes-in-Spain/rt/1006576/

[Guest pelmetman]

JudgeMental - 2014-12-06 6:34 PM

 

Found it and you are right..the nonsense is legion!lol surprised there was not a call for the kippers to get us out of Europe right now! /

 

Get us out of Europe right now :D ........................happy to oblige Eddie ;-) ..........

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

happy to supply you a one way ticket

[Guest pelmetman]

JudgeMental - 2014-12-06 7:42 PM

 

happy to supply you a one way ticket

 

:D ..........I'll be happy to accept a free ticket to Europe ;-) .................I love Europe B-) .........just don't need them telling me how to live :-| ............. Have we not "Had Enough" home grown out of touch loonies doing that >:-) ..........

[witzend]

If I needed to get moped insurance for a ebike would I need to register it and pay road tax and possibily MOT at home.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Zero tax on electric vehicles.....but still have to apply I guess

[sshortcircuit]

 

Maybe now they will start to realise how crap the majority of there cheap chinese bikes are......

 

As usual your way over the top generalisation.

[antony1969]

Eddie without doubt knows a fair bit about ebikes ... What he doesn't know however is how much others want to or can afford to spend on the choice they make

It's a little upperty yourself to dismiss anything other than the high end of the market ebikes

Just an opinion

[Guest JudgeMental]

Yes well........30-60K on a van and a few hundred on a bike, for a pile of Chinese junk on the most part...not looking such good value now are they. They are horrible to ride, initally impressive due to a throttle to the uninformed.

 

The better ones like Wisper bikes are totally legal as throttle only works while peddling, and their latest bikes giving the germans a run for their money. But honestly if people bothered to at least try some bikes at a few proper e bike shops, instead of buying on impulse junk from motorhome shows, where they are not allowed to see and compare what's available due to restrictive practices from the established retailers.

 

A UK company tried to exhibit at UK shows and was refused due to others resented the competition!lol.......These the same companies who are now washing their hands regards legality in Europe, an inconvenient truth that was never mentioned in the sales BS

[sshortcircuit]

Eddie you appear not to be able to understand FIT FOR PURPOSE. I have a cheap and cheerful electric bike and it has done all I have asked of it. Would I be silly enough to purchase a bike for £1000s just to do the same? Please get your brain in gear and realise that its not all about how much you spend.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Nonsense..how can it be fit for purpose if you can't use It on holidays, if you want something to ride around the site or down to the shops it still don't stack up, they are not going to improve your fitness or really help in serious hill climbing. like I said earlier most have not even bothered trying the better end of the market, as I'm resonably confident that they wouldn't bother if they did.......

 

most of these real cheap bikes hardly compare to a proper bicycle let alone a decent e bike. I have always stayed well clear of junk bikes prefering to buy used early on as I like cycling and they offer a far nicer cycling experience. I prefer to spend my money on quality whatever we buy. And good centre drive bikes can be had around £1-1.2k mark, the same price as good chinese bikes.....so junk makes little sense.

[artheytrate]

sshortcircuit - 2014-12-07 10:32 AM

 

Eddie you appear not to be able to understand FIT FOR PURPOSE. I have a cheap and cheerful electric bike and it has done all I have asked of it. Would I be silly enough to purchase a bike for £1000s just to do the same? Please get your brain in gear and realise that its not all about how much you spend.

 

Here, Here, I also agree what sshortcircuit says I bought a Pro rider wayfarer which has front suspension, and suspension under the seat very comfortable to ride and I don't think a bike costing £1000s more would give me any more pleasure.

 

In the past I've owned Harley Davidsons, no better to ride than some of the cheaper made motorcycles. Last Bike I owned was a Triumph Rocket 111 2300cc, But I've had more pleasure with my Pro rider whilst being in Benidorm than I had with my last year of motorbikeing.

 

John.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Just look at it, the frame an abomonation.......Like I said chinese junk and illegal in Spain.

 

http://www.proriderleisure.com/Leisure/electric-bikes/e-voyager-electric-mountain-bike-red.html

 

Rather walk!

 

:D

[artheytrate]

JudgeMental - 2014-12-07 11:39 AM

 

Just look at it, the frame an abomonation.......Like I said chinese junk and illegal in Spain.

 

http://www.proriderleisure.com/Leisure/electric-bikes/e-voyager-electric-mountain-bike-red.html

 

Rather walk!

 

:D

 

This is the one I bought Judge if you want to criticise more.

 

John.

 

 

http://www.proriderleisure.com/leisure/electric-bikes/e-wayfarer-electric-folding-bike-silver.html

 

 

 

[sshortcircuit]

Your post is so off the mark that it questions your creditability. I will repeat it does exactly what I want and is therefore FIT FOR PURPOSE. Unless you can understand what FIT FOR PURPOSE is there is no point in continuing posted as you are so blinkered to £1000s

[hallii]

I have refrained, until now, on commenting. However..... I will continue to ride my cheap and cheerful Chinese ebike in Spain and everywhere else. No CoC and no EC marking. Given the rarity of policing cycling in Spain, and given that I tend to ride on cycle paths etc I don't feel worried at all.

 

I have seen lots of ebikes all over the EU and not many conform fully to the regs. If 2 stroke mopeds can ride the cycle paths with impunity I am sure I can ride my 250w ebike.

 

Yes, I run a risk, but I feel the risk is so small as to be simply disregarded, I have yet to find details of any prosecution in Spain apart from reports in local papers. Those reports are short on detail, I would like to know how powerful the ebikes in question were, (I have seen some with some massive motors doing 30 mph). So there we are, I will break the law, but then I do that every time I go to Spain WITHOUT riding my bike.

 

Dog not in a proper restraint in the vehicle? That's a fine.

Driving in "unsuitable" footwear? That's illegal as well.

Parked on the other side of road? Illegal.

Failed to come to a complete halt on a deserted road at a "STOP" sign? That could be €600.

Not carrying your passport? Illegal.

The Policemen is Judge and Jury, you pay the fine on the spot or he can impound your vehicle.

 

Do I worry? Not much. If I am caught I will pay the fine. If I am caught.....

 

H

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

But at last you now know the possible consequences of your decision..and thats what any of this is about!

 

incidentally harmonisation with EU epac law has not happened due to shortage of time in Parliament. Time has now apparently been found and due to happen before Christmas

[Mel B]

I would like to thank Eddie for posting the information for ebike users so that they are FULLY INFORMED of the implication of using ebikes in Spain and the possibly consequences if bikes does NOT meet the Spanish laws regarding COC/insurance etc.

 

However ...

 

Eddie, not everyone spends £30,000 on a motorhome, not everyone has the money to buy expensive ebikes, not everyone NEEDS expensive ebikes with their super duper motors and built quality ... some people only want a cheap and cheerful ebike that does what they need when they need it.

 

I fall into the latter category - I certainly could afford expensive ones but have no desire to spend that sort of money on something that won't get used massively when something cheaper will do just as well. We actually got a couple of the Pro Rider Wayfarers ourselves and whilst you may think they are an abomination, I do not, they actually are very nice to ride both with and without using the power and when you bear in mind that they are 20" folding ones that is saying something as many 20" unpowered folding bikes are awful to ride. Due to their being heavier than we wanted the company took them back (it was their mistake as the weight we were told was quite a bit less than they actually were couldn't put them on our bike rack) if not though we'd have happily kept them. We now have a couple of Evora folding ebikes which may meet more with your approval (note that they are actually 250w, not 200w as the ad states):

 

http://bicycles4u.com/collections/electric-bikes/products/evora-electric-explorer

 

We did consider other much more expensive bikes but due to the size/weight restriction we couldn't find anything to match what we got without spending a lot more money and even then there were some aspects that were still not right so they would not have been as suitable as those we got! We also seriously considered the Woosh Zephyr CDN but as the battery could only be charged on the bike it wasn't any good!

 

http://www.wooshbikes.co.uk/?zephyr-cdn

 

I appreciate that you think that these cheap bikes are rubbish but that is when considered against bikes costing 8-10 times as much as we paid! If we were going to use the bikes day in and day out at home then obviously our choice would have been different as we'd have gone for full sized wheels etc, but we don't and didn't.

[Guest Joe90]

Are these E Bikes the halfway house on the way to mobility scooters.

 

I thought the idea of cycling was to get some exercise,and burn off the calories, mind you as I see some give rider weights of up to 18 Stone they've probably left it too late, probably the majority now Diabetics with dodgy hearts ;-)

 

under those circumstances perhaps a good idea to buy the cheapest ones possible, it may not get much use :D