yoko8pups Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I have been importing a Hymer motorhome to Portugal, it has been in storage for 3 months. We were using the gas just before it went into storage but when we took it out and tried to turn the gas on there is no response, fridge cooker and water heater can't get any gas. We are sort of newbies to motorhomes although we have had a Hymer caravan for some years. I have looked on the internet and it seems most likely that it could be the regulator, second most likely the solanoid. My question is, before I try to find a gas expert, am I missing something really obvious? I'm assuming that as in Portugal the yellow tap is in the on position when it is parallel to the pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Turn the yellow lever so that is in line with the pipe. Please feed back Edit. Check valve on cylinder is also open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 There are usually gas isolation taps to each appliance within the MH. Have you found and checked these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 In your photo the pressure gauge appears to be on the inlet side of the regulator and is registering zero pressure. If my assumption is correct this means that either the cylinder is empty or the valve on the cylinder is closed, or very possibly you have a flow protection valve in the hose which needs resetting? So, have you mistakenly closed the cylinder valve instead of opening it or is the cylinder actually empty? If you do not get a reading on the gauge you need to find out why before chasing your tail any further. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Thank you everybody, I know the guage is in the off position but after I had uploaded the photo it wouldn't let me upload that. We took the bottle out to be sure that we were turning the cylinder correctly to open and close it so that is correct. We checked with the manual and all the gas isolation taps were correctly in the on position. The cylinder is not empty, we had a reading of 8 when everything was open Where would the flow protection valve be? Can I see it on photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timabob Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Maybe this too obvious, but on my Hymer when you switch on the gas tap you must simultaneously press and hold a small green button, which is on the regulator but not in a particularly obvious position. You must hold this little button in for a short period after the tap has been switched on otherwise gas will not flow. It is presumably some kid of safety feature or it could be because I have a DuoControl system. I just looked in my Hymer manual and there does not seem to be any mention of this, so it's a good job it was explained to me at handover and I've got a good memory. Even so the first time I switched the gas system on properly it took me several attempts to get it right. I hope this helps, but it could be this is just specific to certain types of Hymer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 The most likely position would be in the connecting high pressure "pigtail" hose, immediately adjacent to the cylinder connection. Look for a press button of some sort set into an extended rigid coupling, as in green in this picture. Turn on the gas at the cylinder, and then press down on the button. It should depress by a couple of millimetres, and will then be held open by gas pressure even after the cylinder cock is closed. However, it will close again if, for example, you try to light a gas appliance with the cylinder cock closed, as doing so will release the residual pressure in the system, so you'll need to give it another press after re-opening the gas cock. Whose gas are you using? The (un-connected) cylinder in the picture looks like Calor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timabob Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Thanks Brian, that's exactly what I was trying to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Yes Brian, the gas is calor. When we go back to England we will change it for Alugas as we spend most of the year here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong but if there is a 'valve' which needs resetting at the cylinder connection then surely the gauge would still read zero. Can you connect a manometer to the pressure tapping point on the regulator (the brass nut behind the yellow tap) and check the delivered pressure? Something like this http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p85691 or even DIY with a loop of plastic pipe filled with water? Keith. Edit. Or even, being really careful, just check for gas flow at the pressure tap point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 On the lower side of the regulator there is a yellow button which can't be seen in the photo. Would there be any harm in pressing that in after the gas is connected or is that something else completely? Keith, you are right, and there is no green button there, it is 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Keithl What would I look for if I tried to use a piece of plastic pipe? not being in the UK the manometer might be difficult to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Have you actually checked to see if you have gas in the bottle. A simple check without a manometer would be to remove the connection to the cylinder then crack the valve open very slightly and for a very short period and you should hear a hiss of gas. Put cigarette out befor doing this. If ok connect regulator, remove output hose from regulator and try again although you may have to reset regulator as previously mentioned. If ok, reconnect. Normally there will be a manifold where all the gas appliances are fed from. Check valves are open and then try to light cooker, allowing time for air to be ejected and gas to come through which you should hear. If not, try reversing valve position at manifold and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 yoko8pups - 2015-08-26 7:27 PM Keithl What would I look for if I tried to use a piece of plastic pipe? not being in the UK the manometer might be difficult to find. If you look at the picture in the link you will see a 'U' shaped pipe alongside a scale with both ends open at the top. The manometer is filled with water to approx the zero, halfway, mark. Both sides will be at exactly the same level whilst they are open to the atmosphere. As 30 mbar pressure is approx equal to 12 inches of water if you apply the regulator output pressure to one side of the 'U' then the DIFFERENCE in level should be approx 12 inches. Hence you will need at least that height of 'U'. I would think you need something like 5 or 6 mm bore tubing to work satisfactorily and possibly a short length of rubber tubing to connect on to the tapping point. Maybe try Googling for how to make a gas manometer? HTH, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Yokopup’s motorhome is a 2005 Hymer and the photo shows an ordinary Truma/GOK bulkhead-mounted 30mbar regulator with pressure-gauge of the type that would have been fitted as original equipment 10 years ago. A reading of 8 bars on the pressure-gauge would be appropriate for propane and would indicate that there’s no problem with the gas feed from bottle to regulator. If the yellow tap is turned so that it is in line with the regulator’s outlet section and it’s evident that no gas is reaching the motorhome’s gas appliances, everything points to the regulator needing replacement. I went through 3 of these regulators with my 2005 Hobby motorhome and the symptoms of the problem seem to be a gradual reduction in the gas-flow if the vehicle’s gas system is being used regularly with complete failure eventually occurring, or complete failure after the vehicle has not been used for a significant period (eg, when it has been overwintered or been in long-term storage) despite the gas-system working OK previously. As yoko8pups’s Hymer’s symptoms are so classic of the way this type of regulator fails, my advice would be not to bother with further checking and just get a new regulator. Obtaining exactly the same regulator may prove tricky as I think the design has been modified somewhat over the years, but the installation shown in the photo suggests that any motorhome/caravan dealership should be able to carry out the task very easily (and probably wil have done it many times in the past!) In the mid-late 2000s this Truma/GOK regulator gained a notorious reputation for failure and received wisdom was that it was better to replace it with the Clesse-made regulator shown here http://www.clesse.co.uk/product/000893ah/ that was claimed to be immortal. (It’s perhaps worth adding that a replacement regulator's outlet will need to be appropriate for the diameter (8mm or 10mm) of the motorhome’s gas pipework.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Although you have an 8 bar reading do you have gas? Gauges have been known to stick so does needle move when you turn cylinder off/on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Yes, the pressure gauge moves when we turn the gas on and off so I fear we need a new regulator, almost impossible to get here I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 If the pressure falls back to zero when you turn the gas off something isn't right. It would settle back over time, but that should take a day or two. If it falls back quickly there is a leak. Try turning off all the gas taps on your system, including the one at the regulator, then turn on the gas at the cylinder, and immediately off, and watch what the pressure gauge does. If it falls noticeably within an hour the pigtail hose, or one of its connectors, is leaking. If that holds pressure, open the tap at the regulator, when the pressure gauge should record a drop, then turn the gas on and off again at the cylinder to pressurise the next leg, and watch the gauge again, and so on until you get the the appliance taps. Anywhere the pressure drops quickly on any leg with the gas off at the cylinder there is a leak along that section. If the system holds pressure up to the appliances, turn on one of the hob burners, but allow time for the gas to get through: the hob burner will hiss for quite a while as the gas drives the air out of the pipe. If all sections appear to hold pressure, but no air/gas emerges at the hob, I'd guess the regulator has jammed and must be replaced. Truma products are widely available around Europe, so getting a replacement should be relatively straightforward. Have a look on Truma's website for a stockist near where you are. PS, just seen Derek's post above, which I previously missed. On the evidence of what he says about the particular regulator, probably best to do as he advises and cut out any further testing and just go straight for a replacement regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 If the OP needs to replace the regulator, I would certainly recommend the Clesse as suggested by Derek. It comes with a 5 year warranty against failure and is relatively inexpensive. I carry a spare, just in case. The main EU supplier is located in France but I'm sure the caravan dealers in Portugal probably stock this item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Thank you everyone. We have decided to go with Derek's idea and buy a new regulator. I rang Cleese and they put me on to their distributor who will send parts out, certainly all over Europe, within 3-5 days. This seems a really useful link for anyone who is stuck in the middle of nowhere and can't source a part. https://www.bes.co.uk phone 0044 121 3226400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 yoko8pups Don’t overlook the caveat at the end of my last posting - that the regulator’s outlet needs to match the motorhome’s pipework. The Clesse 30mbar regulator shown in the BES Ltd catalogue has an outlet with a compression fitting suitable for connecting to 10mm-diameter pipework. If your motorhome has 10mm pipework that will be fine, but if it has 8mm pipework, you’ll either need a ‘reducer’ or the 8mm-outlet version of the regulator. http://www.gaslowdirect.com/Gaslow-Clesse-30mbar-Regulator (As far as I’m aware the Clesse regulator does not have its own 5-year warranty against failure. The warranty is provided only if the regulator is obtained from Gaslow and used with Gaslow’s stainless-steel gas-hoses. The warranty is Gaslow’s, not Clesse’s.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 I bought the 10-8 reducer as well to be sure, it was only 1.65, thanks for all your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Suddenly thought!! Did i need 2 reducers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 No, you don't need 2 reducers. You only need to match the size of your outgoing pipe size (ie. to the habitation side). Yes, you are correct Derek, the 5 year warranty I mentioned was offered on the Gaslow website. Still, it does offer some comfort if they are prepared to back this product with such a generous warranty period. I did purchase the Clesse reg from Gaslow and do have the stainless steel connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 In the mid-2000s when problems began to be reported with Truma/GOK and Cavagna bulkhead-mounted 30mbar regulators in the UK, the Clesse regulator was (if I remember correctly) only used in Avondale leisure vehicles. The Clesse product gained a reputation for being immune to the sort of problems that were afflicting the other two makes, but as the number of Clesse regulators in use was small compared to the Cavagna regulators and tiny compared to the Truma/GOK regulators, the statistics involved were always questionable. Concern was also expressed at the time that the simpler design of the Clesse regulator might allow the oily residues in the gas (claimed to be at the root of the problems) to pass through the regulator and on to (expensive) gas appliances like fridges and heaters, rather than be ‘collected’ within the regulator as seemed to be happening with the Truma/GOK and Cavagna products. I’m not going to claim that the regulator ‘clogging’ problem has completely disappeared and that the latest Truma/GOK regulators will never suffer from it, but the incidence of the problem is clearly much lower nowadays and (I suspect) this is largely due to regulators now being mounted above the gas bottle and with the gas hose always going upwards from bottle to regulator. I also suspect that - if Truma warranted its current regulators for 5 years with the proviso that the installation complied with their advice and a gas-filter was fitted - they would quite likely not get any under-warranty claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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