aka4ajax Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Hi All, I am a newbie to this motorhome experience so please be gentle with me. However I am fairly technical and DIY savvy so should be ok with most stuff, but I do need a bit of your expertise guidance. I have a Burstner 820i Elegance fitted with 2 x 110AH (fitted in parallel for 12v) leisure batteries which are charged via the mains hookup and alternator while engine is running. There is also a 1000W inverter connected to the leisure batteries, but nothing connected to it for 240v. So everything works great and as it should, but when i am away from hookup 240v I can only get 240v from the inverter if i am to plug in an extension lead, keeping it separate from the main 240v ring of the motorhome. If i was to connect it to the motorhome 240v ring main, it would try to recharge the batteries via the ebox i think, or am i ok to somehow wire it into my motorhome mains circuit so I can use the same plugs, rather than an extension lead? Thanks in advance and I eagerly wait some advice. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 You are looking for trouble if you connect your inverter to your 230 v system, IMO it can be done but why bother, just fit a few sockets connected direct to the inverter and use them sparingly as you will only have about 4 amps from a 1000 watt inverter , probably less depending on cable runs and cable sizes and condition of your batteries , keep it simple stupid is my mantra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Many thanks, I am hedging towards exactly that, maybe re-wiring one or two of the sockets and marking them as Inverter supplied ones. So i will have 3 options of power; 12v, 240v via inverter and 240v via mains hook up. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 aka4ajax - 2015-09-13 6:38 PMMany thanks,I am hedging towards exactly that, maybe re-wiring one or two of the sockets and marking them as Inverter supplied ones. So i will have 3 options of power;12v, 240v via inverter and 240v via mains hook up.Thanks again. You never mentioned Solar Panels either which you will need if you are going to power an inverter for anything substantial as the draw on your battery will be big, ,most items we have in our vans will run happily on 12 volt anyway ie lap top and phone chargers , TV , radios kindle chargers,what else do you hope to use on an inverter of 1000 watts? not a lot , I can run a domestic Spin Drier on my 600watt inverter as it only needs 150 watts a must for our wild camping life.I do have 2 x 100watt solar panels and 2 X 120 amp hour batteries connected and we wild camp for months on end never on hook ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 The simplest way would be to make up a short hook up cable with the 16a plug replaced with a 13a plug to connect into your inverter. You would switch off your charger when is use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 Thanks Shortciruit, I have considered this too, but would not know how to turn off the charging system as its an internal part of the ebox. Do you know how to isolate it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 Thanks Vindiboy, Solar panels are on my list of questions to ask about, but i wanted to get the inverter question out the way without complicating the answer. As i have read many posts on here and they vary so far off track you loose sight of the question. So I am now leaning towards, ensuring most my electrical stuff is 12v rather than relying on the 240v mains. This is an easy solution, just wished I had considered it before buying new kettle, toaster and TV. But these new items can get reused in the house somewhere. Onto SOLAR PANELS Please can you pass on your experience on these too, i will be looking to copy your setup of 200w on tap. The main questions I have bouncing around my head are; 1. Is the quality and production of the panel directly related to the cost, as i have seen some 100w panels for as little as £150 and up to £250 2. Would you recommend a high watt panel, as i have also seen 300w panels available (£350) 3. The control box that connects them has an output connection, would you move the existing output from the batteries to the motorhome panel to this, or just connect up the solar panel and battery? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 aka4ajax - 2015-09-14 7:42 AMThanks Shortciruit,I have considered this too, but would not know how to turn off the charging system as its an internal part of the ebox.Do you know how to isolate it? You see , you are now beginning to complicate a simple job, just fit a couple of extra sockets as aforementioned and mark them with a red dot sticker to denote inverter, I would not recommend messing with the electrobox, I had to replace one on a Hymer I had, loads of dosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 It would pay you to speak to a company called Solar Solutions in Poole they are experts on solar solutions as their name suggests, I had a panel fitted by them at my home in Southampton 100 watts and a new controller as I would then have 2x 100watt panels on stream £250 total job, as for size/ output of the panels you are looking for, I would suggest you get the biggest you can fit but be aware of weight, my old dad used to say "buy cheap ,buy twice "always worked for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 You would need at least 2000 watt output continuous Forget your toaster and kettle on a 1000 watt inverter, your TV however probably works on 12 volt as most do these days the voltage is stepped down to this, so you can get a 12v lead for it from someone like Maplins or on line or from the TV maker, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 From solar panel cables go to the controller, then through a fuse to the batteries, you do not need to alter any cabling already in situ , this is the simplest way to do things , that is how my system is wired, Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 vindiboy - 2015-09-14 9:51 AM aka4ajax - 2015-09-14 7:42 AMThanks Shortciruit,I have considered this too, but would not know how to turn off the charging system as its an internal part of the ebox.Do you know how to isolate it? You see , you are now beginning to complicate a simple job, just fit a couple of extra sockets as aforementioned and mark them with a red dot sticker to denote inverter, I would not recommend messing with the electrobox, I had to replace one on a Hymer I had, loads of dosh. What ! one simple extension and switch off charger as against additional sockets red dot stickers etc, come on. Have you checked your handbook as to what the MCB do as there will more than likely be one solely for the charger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I fitted a double socket just on the inverter. But the tv was across the other side of the caravan so I made a very naughty lead up with a 13a plug on both ends, this livened up the whole ringmain from a socket near the inverter. My charger had a switch on it so I made sure that was off as well as the fridge. I only did it this way because I'm stupid, It works but I wouldn't recommend it. When I sold the caravan I unmade the lead and put the plugs in the shed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 Thanks, i had thought of this too and properly will do the same, just need to pull the 20A charging fuse on the ebox. The advice is all good and I do not want to complicate things too much, so the double plug option will do for me, bearing in mind i need to remove this option when i or if i sell the motorhome. Now having read this. http://www.atlanticmotorhomeservices.co.uk/solar-power.php and this: http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/solar-panels.php I am getting a negative feeling about solar panels and may opt for a 1000w Honda silent generator to run as a top up supply, obviously as i would have pulled the fuse to the charger, this will not charge when the inverter is in use.... or is there a way to do this too???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 How easy is it to put in a couple of extra sockets on the inverter loop rather than 240v external feed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Charles - 2015-09-14 10:44 AMI fitted a double socket just on the inverter. But the tv was across the other side of the caravan so I made a very naughty lead up with a 13a plug on both ends, this livened up the whole ringmain from a socket near the inverter. My charger had a switch on it so I made sure that was off as well as the fridge.I only did it this way because I'm stupid, It works but I wouldn't recommend it. When I sold the caravan I unmade the lead and put the plugs in the shed.I cannot believe I am reading this, I cannot believe anyone could be so stupid , no explanation should be necessary to anyone . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 vindiboy - 2015-09-15 9:55 AM Charles - 2015-09-14 10:44 AMI fitted a double socket just on the inverter. But the tv was across the other side of the caravan so I made a very naughty lead up with a 13a plug on both ends, this livened up the whole ringmain from a socket near the inverter. My charger had a switch on it so I made sure that was off as well as the fridge.I only did it this way because I'm stupid, It works but I wouldn't recommend it. When I sold the caravan I unmade the lead and put the plugs in the shed.I cannot believe I am reading this, I cannot believe anyone could be so stupid , no explanation should be necessary to anyone . I totally agree and that particular post should have been removed, particularly as I was chastised for stating there is no danger with reversed polarity in a healthy circuit provided you do not dabble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 I am going to adopt his method but add a bit of safety to it and not using the plug into the socket method but wire it to the consumer board and hopefully put in an isolation relay of breaker of some type. I have started a new thread to see if anyone has information on this or done similar. Excuse my lack of technical knowledge on the subject; I have a motorhome that has a 1000w inverter connected to a couple of leisure batteries. But at present I have not connected the 240v supply to the ring main for the sockets. As these are directly connected to a consumer panel that also when hooked up to mains supplies a charger to the batteries. By connecting it to the ring main it would energise its own charger causing all sorts of issues. So i intend to isolate the socket ring main and connect the inverter to this using an inline selector switch. My question is could i use a relay to automate this supply? 1. normal operation the inverter supplies the ring main and is isolated from the rest of the consumer unit. 2. When mains hook up is supplied the relay kicks in and switches off the inverter supply and uses the mains. Is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Everything is possible but whether it's correct or not is the question. A basic question that should have been asked in the beginning is why are you doing this? I only use a 150w inverter to run a TV and charge phones etc when no cigarette connection is available for direct charging. I also have a 3000w inverter that supplies one socket for the proverbial hair drier. If you make it complicated your inviting trouble and possibly dangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 The motorhome came with a retrofitted 1000w inverter hard wired directly to the leisure battery bank. It has an on/off switch so can be isolated here. I would like to run the TV, Freesat and other bits and bobs that are 240v, including a kettle. I know i could replace the lot and buy 12v items, but for now thats what i have and do not want the expense to replace the tv satellite and kettle. I think i already know what to do and how to make it, just wondered if anyone had an off the shelf solution. A 3 way switch, 2 small contacts The 3 way switch will be pos 1 - Mains 240v, pos 2 (Middle) off, pos 3 Inverter 240v With smaller contacts i will need auxiliary contacts or slave relays for the prevention of both contacts coming in the same time. At any one time it can only ever be 1 contact for Mains 240v- or the other for Inverter 240v. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach2000 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 As I said in the other thread, don't mess with 240 volts unless competent. For what it would cost, you could get a local registered Electrician to do a proper job with certification. Clive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 aka4ajax - 2015-09-15 11:37 AM I would like to run the TV, Freesat and other bits and bobs that are 240v, including a kettle. Don't bother even trying to run a kettle on a 1,000 Watt inverter. The best you will run is something like an 800 Watt travel kettle and from experience these take the best part of 5 minutes to boil a reasonable quantity of water. The drain on your battery will be massive, 1,000 Watts at 12 Volts is over 80 Amps! Can your leisure batteries and inverter wiring stand that current for that length of time, I seriously doubt it. And remember your inverter will have a low voltage cut-off, so if the battery voltage falls the inverter will shut off and everything will go off! Use your inverter for low power devices like your TV and Sat and use gas for any heating job. Just my opinion. Keith. PS And I second other peoples advice, if you aren't absolutely 100% certain of what you are proposing then DON'T DO IT! Electricity kills! You DO NOT get a second chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Thanks for the advice on the Kettle, maybe i need to rethink the use and get a 12v travel one, keeping the inverter for the TV as you mentioned. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 The box to do the switching is being built for me by a certified electrical engineer and I will get my Habitation company to fit it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I am delighted to see you have a team with the required competences to carry out electrical installation work? Some "Certified Electrical Engineers" I would not trust to fit a 13A plug and yes there is a proper way of doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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