aka4ajax Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Hi All, I have recently bought a shiny Burtsner 8201 based on a Fiat Ducato van. Its 2004 but real low miles 34000 and the interior /exterior is in superb condition, so i did not fully look over the vehicle as was smitten as soon as i seen all the gloss. However i had to recently change the Alternator, well I tried to, in the end paid £320 to have it done as i could not undo any of the bolts. Onto my problem, the underneath is very rusty, i think its mostly surface and no big lumps falling off, but the bolts to things like the alternator and other lumps are rusted solid. Would anyone or has anyone had the underside sand blasted then painted? Would you recommend this and / or use waxoyl? Thanks, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Some people will swear by waxoyl but unless you're doing the job properly and removing ALL rust and dirt you might as well not bother, I know from experience (Land Rover Defender) it just drops off after 6months. You can get spray cans of White Grease on eBay and that will stick on, go all dirty and hard (ish) and repel moisture for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 this: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=261699467504&alt=web Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 Charles - 2015-09-26 4:43 PM Some people will swear by waxoyl but unless you're doing the job properly and removing ALL rust and dirt you might as well not bother, I know from experience (Land Rover Defender) it just drops off after 6months. You can get spray cans of White Grease on eBay and that will stick on, go all dirty and hard (ish) and repel moisture for a few years. Thanks, would you employ a sand blasting company to give it a good clean or is that a bit excessive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I'd say that's a bit excessive. It just wants pressure washing and drying first. Sand blasting will just take what's left of the paint off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 Your right, Seen sense, so no easy way to it just get underneath clean it and wax or grease it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Neil, Check your engine sump very carefully for rust! On this age of Fiat they are VERY prone to rust and if not caught in time can deposit all your engine oil onto the road with disastrous consequences. Have a look at this recent posting on the AutoTrail OC website... Link to ATOC. Keith. PS And the crossmember supporting the radiator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Whats this? 8-) ......... A Fiat rusting :-S ........... I thought only old Transits did that :D ......... Never mind ;-) ...........Rust can be fixed with a hammer and a welding torch, and for probably less than the cost of a pair of new Fiat headlights (lol) ........... But I reckon a trip to the rustproofers would help........I'm planning a trip there myself someday B-) ........ Although I have a long history of shutting the stable door after the horse has rusted *-) ............ Its still a dam sight cheaper than PX'ing :-> .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Charles - 2015-09-26 4:47 PM this: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=261699467504&alt=web Yes, that's good stuff, or it can be had from Toolstation at £3.20 a can, similar grease, and easily sprayed. Good for locks too. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Cheers Chris, I did notice the sump was looking a bit sad for itself, it was that that lead me to look closer at the bottom and yes the crossmember is rusty too. At the moment it looks like a bad case of surface rust, but that is the start of rot. Maybe a bit of heavy wire brush or light sand blasting will remove this and the paint, but i will respray the areas after then also treat with waxoyl. Thats what i love about forums, i would never have known about this, i of course do know the Fiat history regarding rusty vehicles, but hoped they had sorted this.... obviously not. Thanks Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Are Rust Proofers any good? any idea on the cost, or could a capable DIY do the same job at half the price. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Are Rust Proofers any good? any idea on the cost, or could a capable DIY do the same job at half the price. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 You don't say where you are based but we had the underside of ours steam cleaned and Waxoyled by a local company that advertises in both mmm and Caravan Club magazine, they did an excellent job all for a cost of £145. Providing the rust is only surface then the Waxoyl will actually adhere better and I can say after 3 years there is absolutely no sign of flaking and the treated surface looks as good as the day it was done. In my opinion it is not worth getting in a mess for the sake of £145. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 The problem with any coating that dries - even waxoyl, is that existing rust can work away underneath it. Wheras a coating of (gear) oil does not dry and will soak into any rust, preventing it spreading. I have often found rust beneath underseal, but never beneath oil! Its also a lot quicker and easier to go over it once a year with fresh oil, than to remove a dried coating, clean and re paint. Who wants to lie under an old van preparing a surface and painting. Wheras brushing a bit of oil around is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Exactly Peter, but as I said in my first post above some people think waxoyl is great.. let them get on with it and learn their own experiences.. in ten years time they'll be telling people to use grease or oil B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 28, 2015 Author Share Posted September 28, 2015 Well all good advice agin chaps. I am based down on the south coast near Portsmouth. So, check, clean and de-rust sump. Then jet wash underside and a liberal coating of white grease or oil seems to be the order of the day. I will be getting on with this job in a couple of weekends i think, before weather turns a bit too damp to do properly. Thanks again. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Charles - 2015-09-28 7:30 AM some people think waxoyl is great.. Well thats the power of marketing expensive rust treatments isn't it (lol) No money to be made in telling people to use cheap gear oil :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 aka4ajax - 2015-09-28 8:30 AM Well all good advice agin chaps. I am based down on the south coast near Portsmouth. So, check, clean and de-rust sump. Then jet wash underside and a liberal coating of white grease or oil seems to be the order of the day. I will be getting on with this job in a couple of weekends i think, before weather turns a bit too damp to do properly. Thanks again. Neil I suggest new cheap gear oil, instead of used engine oil. New oil doesn't stink, and its easier to clean up the inevitable drips. Clean oil washes out easily with modern detergents, its the black stuff in used engine oil that won't wash out. Gear oil is a bit thicker, and formulated to stick to metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 In the old days oil was always used as a rust preventative but that never stopped cars from rusting. My father always treated his cars with oil - he swore by it - but just about every vehicle he owned was rusty within 3 - 4 years. The other thing I recall is that the car always stank of oil and gear oil is particularly smelly. Surely nobody would not want to live in a vehicle with the underside covered in oil as smells will percolate? Waxoil is also smelly but soon disappears. It is reasonably effective as long as the surface is adequately prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Waxoyl stops smelling when it dries out, it's based on a turps like thin oil that evaporates slowly at room temperature, which you can smell. Oil and grease are very much thicker and evaporate VERY slowly at room temperature. If metal rusts when it's covered properly with oil or grease, I'll eat my hat. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Waxoil is best used on new metal, eg, sills or any new panels, very little else to beat it when used this way. The only 99.9% way of beating rust is to cut it out and replace with new, then Waxoiled. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Charles - 2015-09-28 10:34 AM Waxoyl stops smelling when it dries out, it's based on a turps like thin oil that evaporates slowly at room temperature, which you can smell. Oil and grease are very much thicker and evaporate VERY slowly at room temperature. If metal rusts when it's covered properly with oil or grease, I'll eat my hat. ;-) Believe me it takes a very long time for the smell of grease and oil, especially gear oil, to disappear. There will be residual smells for very many months especially in hot weather. Imagine putting up with that while you eat your meals and sleep. Are you really suggesting that using oil and grease is suitable for a motorhome? And Peter James assertion that new oil doesn't smell is simply not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I wouldn't use oil on a motorhome that's why I suggested white spray grease that has no smell. Incidentally it isn't white it's clear, same as white wine isn't white lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka4ajax Posted September 28, 2015 Author Share Posted September 28, 2015 Ok so there are two choices here and all really depends on how bad the rust is, well thats as far as I can see it. I think the sump will require a proper clean and repaint, as maybe the cross member will. I am leaning towards the white grease or waxyol treatment, and may just employ a company to do it for me. as someone quite rightly said no point getting all messed up for a couple of hundred quid, as long as they do it properly. I will come back with how it stands week ater next when the MH is being rolled out for inspection. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 aka4ajax - 2015-09-28 2:13 PM I think the sump will require a proper clean and repaint, as maybe the cross member will. . Not at all. The sumps and crossmembers on old cars never rusted as they were always lathered in oil. Rusting sumps and crossemembers is an entirely new phenomenon caused by engines that don't leak oil Just brush away the loose muck, then brush some gear oil over it. You can get a litre of gear oil in Wilkos for less than a fiver, which will be ample. No need for hard work on the cleaning when you are using oil - which will attract more muck anyway. In fact a bit of rust will have roughened the surface so the oil sticks better. Just so long as its not so caked in muck and old paint that the oil can't penetrate down to the metal it will be fine. This is an easy ten minute job, and today looks ideal dry weather to do it :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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