Wallynnette Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Morning all, I've had to retire early due to poor health but can still drive. We were thinking of coming down in length to approx 6mts, hopefully a fixed bed (we do like our fixed bed). My wife drives an automatic car for her work as she has a left shoulder problem that seems to reappear on occaisions even after two operations. She can't drive the Bailey due to this problem, so she's had the bright idea of downsizeing but also one with an auto box so we can help each other to continue our hobby. Any ideas for what to start our search with would be greatly appreciated, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 If you like a fixed bed and are getting a bit less agile and want to get close to 6m then look for a layout like our Globecar 636SB, clambering in and out of our bed is much easier with its steps than most Twin type arrangements, you can get a similar layout with fixed bathroom or even coach built from other manufacturers. You can also get similar longitudinal fixed beds in 6m but I think if downsizing you might find the dinette too cramped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Downsizing from a 7.5 m wide bodied coacbuilt to a 6.00 m much narrower panel van is a big ask when you have become used to so much space and clutter carrying capacity. We tried downsizing from a 6.8 m Autotrail coachbuilt to a 6.00 m Warwick Duo panel van and stuck it out for two years before splitting the difference to a 6.00 meter coachbuilt which is much easier to live with and in and not a lot different to drive and park. I'm not saying it won't work as plenty of folks do make the down size and live happily ever after but do be aware of the risks and the possibility that maybe a compact coachbuilt might work for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallynnette Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 Hi Tracker, yeah thats going to be our 1st hurdle to overcome and can't really imagine what we could cope with. We thought we'd gather some ideas on here and go and have a look at them all and try and get a feel of whats feasable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Drew Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 We have a Benimar Mileo 202 5.99 mtrs, that has a electric bed that if you remove the seat backs descends fully made up to a normal bed hight, you can seat 7 round the table, large fridge freezer and loads of kitchen worktop space. The minus points a bit tight on storage, and the bathroom facilities are a bit cramped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebeaches Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 We have enjoyed a 6-metre coachbuilt van with a fixed bed (Chausson Flash S2) for the last five years. We found it an excellent compromise between internal living space and reasonably convenient driveability and parking. However, we decided we would now prefer a narrower MH and so are downsizing to a 6-metre panel van conversion. It will be a bit of a squeeze concerning living space, but we're confident it will work for us. Additionally, we want twin longitudinal fixed beds, which we know will mean further compromise. We have a motorhome because we enjoy travelling, and a smaller vehicle will make driving and parking less stressful, especially when exploring down narrow country lanes etc. On the subject of automatic gearboxes - in our experience they are a bit like the famous 'hens teeth'. We were adamant we wanted one on our new van, and therefore needed a new-build factory order, which for us means at least a 7-month wait for delivery. We had a very specific and rather unusual layout requirement in such a short van (Rapido Dreamer D58). There are obviously a few automatics around in the market, provided you're prepared to be flexible concerning the size and layout you'll accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I have driven several Fiat auto vans in the last year whilst I did some part time delivery driving for a local dealer and I must say that I found the gear changes to be slow and dim witted compared to any half decent auto car. It might suit your style of driving more than mine but it is crucial that you have a long and meaningfull test drive before you commit to any auto box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallynnette Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 Thats interesting, I must admit I was wondering how an automatic performed under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 When driven gently they are fine but if you want to pass a tractor you need to give it 3 seconds notice before it accellerates and negotiating roundabouts and complex junctions can be downright hair raising! Perhaps I am biased as both our cars are CVT which, whilst they do have their own foibles that not everyone likes or would live with, do respond instantly when you plant your foot on the go pedal and are incredibly smooth and relaxingly easy to drive! Just personal views of course and others may well have differing views? Now if only I could transplant a Toyota hybrid CVT engine and transmission into a van! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Wallynnette - 2016-02-03 1:51 PM Thats interesting, I must admit I was wondering how an automatic performed under load. The gearbox is absolutely no problem but I am used to a panel van with a 3 litre engine eliminating any performance issues but I would have to say a Comfortmatic with a 2.3 litre engine is probably more than OK. You will find that virtually all Comfortmatic owners are more than pleased with the gearbox so I wouldn't place a great deal of value on the comments of those who haven't owned one or driven one for only a few miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Mike88 - 2016-02-03 2:34 PM The gearbox is absolutely no problem but I am used to a panel van with a 3 litre engine eliminating any performance issues but I would have to say a Comfortmatic with a 2.3 litre engine is probably more than OK. You will find that virtually all Comfortmatic owners are more than pleased with the gearbox so I wouldn't place a great deal of value on the comments of those who haven't owned one or driven one for only a few miles. So basing your experience of a 3.0 litre, but without any experience of the 2.3, you like the auto - but how can you be sure that the 2.3 has no performance issues for you if you have no experience of driving it? It is true that I have not owned one, and are never likely to, but I have covered some 400 miles in newish 2.3 auto pvcs and lightweight coachbuilts. Whilst I have a lot of experience of car autos, I have no experience of the 3.0 litre autos so I cannot comment on their performance and all I am saying, without in any way criticising anyone else, is for anyone considering buying one to give it a jolly good drive over varying conditions and traffic levels before committing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry1956 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I downsized from a hymer to a globecar. and yes I had the worry that we would not get all the kit in. But in truth most of the said kit was still in their boxes un used. we have the van with the two singles at the rear or one large double. the space under the bed is easy to get to and takes the outside table and chairs, dog bed, windbreak, and extra drinking water and a suitcase, and cobb. what more do you need. the beds are great, lots of room and much better then the hymer. downsizing can be done and painlessly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-03 2:55 PM Mike88 - 2016-02-03 2:34 PM The gearbox is absolutely no problem but I am used to a panel van with a 3 litre engine eliminating any performance issues but I would have to say a Comfortmatic with a 2.3 litre engine is probably more than OK. You will find that virtually all Comfortmatic owners are more than pleased with the gearbox so I wouldn't place a great deal of value on the comments of those who haven't owned one or driven one for only a few miles. So basing your experience of a 3.0 litre, but without any experience of the 2.3, you like the auto - but how can you be sure that the 2.3 has no performance issues for you if you have no experience of driving it? It is true that I have not owned one, and are never likely to, but I have covered some 400 miles in newish 2.3 auto pvcs and lightweight coachbuilts. I have no experience of the 3.0 litre autos so cannot comment on their performance and all I am saying, without in any way criticising anyone else, is for anyone considering buying one to give it a jolly good drive over varying conditions and traffic levels before committing. I was not commenting on your contribution but if the cap fits. My point was that there have been threads on here about the Comfortmatic with my perception being that the majority of adverse comments coming from those who have never owned one. With regard to your comment wondering why I think the 2.3 litre version is suitable that is because my 3 litre is 160 bhp and the 2.3 with Comfortmatic is 150 bhp meaning in all probability that there is unlikely to be that much difference in performance between the two. Of course it will be necessary to try one out but I doubt whether performance will be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Small differences in engine power output, and in particular torque, as well as the overall transmission gearing ratio and the way the engine and gearbox are set up to balance the performance versus economy (aka less pollution) equation can make a big difference to the way that even the same gearbox, if it is the same, can behave. By performance I mean the way it behaves as in, changing gear, putting you in the right gear at the right time an general smoothness and, like many modern cars, I find it sorely wanting in those respects. Accelleration once it has found a gear and speed and cruising wise it is fine and very relaxing but even downshifts on a uphill gradient were hardly ever smooth. Perhaps with a few more years development it might be good enough to begin to compete with a BMW or VW self shifter or a good Japanese CVT but as of right now - sorry - I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-03 3:38 PM Small differences in engine power output, and in particular torque, as well as the overall transmission gearing ratio and the way the engine and gearbox are set up to balance the performance versus economy (aka less pollution) equation can make a big difference to the way that even the same gearbox, if it is the same, can behave. By performance I mean the way it behaves as in, changing gear, putting you in the right gear at the right time an general smoothness and, like many modern cars, I find it sorely wanting in those respects. Accelleration once it has found a gear and speed and cruising wise it is fine and very relaxing but even downshifts on a uphill gradient were hardly ever smooth. Perhaps with a few more years development it might be good enough to begin to compete with a BMW or VW self shifter or a good Japanese CVT but as of right now - sorry - I don't think so. But you have never owned one so how can you comment? As it happens I have an Audi with a "self shifter" and, while I agree the Comfortmatic is not as good, it is more than adequate for driving across the Pyrenees, Alps and just about everywhere else I have driven. Are you suggesting the OP doesn't buy an automatic even though health determines otherwise? In essence your post is exceedingly unhelpful as the original poster needs an automatic for health reasons and I simply don't get how a person who has never owned a Comfortmatic panel van motorhome can comment with any authority even if the intention was to be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-03 2:55 PM Mike88 - 2016-02-03 2:34 PM The gearbox is absolutely no problem but I am used to a panel van with a 3 litre engine eliminating any performance issues but I would have to say a Comfortmatic with a 2.3 litre engine is probably more than OK. You will find that virtually all Comfortmatic owners are more than pleased with the gearbox so I wouldn't place a great deal of value on the comments of those who haven't owned one or driven one for only a few miles. So basing your experience of a 3.0 litre, but without any experience of the 2.3, you like the auto - but how can you be sure that the 2.3 has no performance issues for you if you have no experience of driving it? Hi I changed to a Globecar 2.3 automatic last April. Have taken it to Holland for 10 days touring, then Iceland away for 5 weeks, plus various shorter trips in the Uk. I absolutely love the auto box and would not change back. The only time I had a problem was on a very very steep gravel road in Iceland when it wanted to change up inappropriately, I just popped it into manual and it went a dream. Mine has no cruise control but I found it very relaxing to drive on the Autoroutes. Re downsizing, we moved from a 6m Autotrail to a Globecar. The Globecar swallowed our gear with space left over. That being said we never stay anywhere for more than 3 nights so don't carry masses of extras. We purchased seats that folded down small and carry our bedding, Duvalays, on the back seats when we are on the road and throw them on front seats when we stop. We travelled from Gibraltar to Finland in our last Globecar ( but that was manual). Hope that is helpful Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Please read what I originally and subsequantly posted again and do try to stop distorting it. Just for you, as no doubt everyone else has got the message by now, what I said was that personally I do not like the confortmatic and would not buy one and I gave my reasons for this. Then I suggested that anyone considering buying one might not feel the same as me and might really like it, so best to give one a very good trial beore buying. Having driven over 400 miles in them I do feel qualified to comment as that is many more miles than most people would do before buying and more than enough of varied traffic and road conditions to get to know any vehicle quite well. As I said, it is OK when cruising or driving gently but the throttle response and gear selection is badly flawed and under developed in comparison to other autos when it comes to rapid downshifts for overtaking and at busy junctions and I stand by everything that I have said. I did not start this by having a go at anyone, or insulting anyone who has an auto Fiat, and if you disagree with my view of the Fiat auto please just say so and state your own experience without finding any need to have a go at me under whatever pretext. Fortunately I am able to disagree with others without snide comments like 'unhelpful' ithose you have never owned one' but when you do choose to attack the messenger and not the message you will get a response. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I agree totally with Mike88 on his assessment of the unhelpful comments from Tracker. I have driven a 3 litre Comfortmatic Coachbuilt for 7 years, and for the last year a 2.3 130bhp Comfortmatic PVC and have never found the performance anything other than very very acceptable. When we start a journey, the selector goes to Auto, and when we stop, it is to Neutral and brakes on. In between, the Auto system does all the work. It is easy to give the lever a nudge to select a lower or higher gear if one wishes, but in my style of driving (which isn't Formula 1 or Rallying) this action is very rare. The ready availability of the Comfortmatic option has surely filled a large gap in the type of transmissions which were once on offer. Autos really used to be rarer than Hens Teeth. Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-03 5:19 PM Please read what I originally and subsequantly posted again and do try to stop distorting it. Just for you, as no doubt everyone else has got the message by now, what I said was that personally I do not like the confortmatic and would not buy one and I gave my reasons for this. Then I suggested that anyone considering buying one might not feel the same as me and might really like it, so best to give one a very good trial beore buying. Having driven over 400 miles in them I do feel qualified to comment as that is many more miles than most people would do before buying and more than enough of varied traffic and road conditions to get to know any vehicle quite well. As I said, it is OK when cruising or driving gently but the throttle response and gear selection is badly flawed and under developed in comparison to other autos when it comes to rapid downshifts for overtaking and at busy junctions and I stand by everything that I have said. I did not start this by having a go at anyone, or insulting anyone who has an auto Fiat, and if you disagree with my view of the Fiat auto please just say so and state your own experience without finding any need to have a go at me under whatever pretext. Thanks. You must have some kind of persecution complex. As I stated in my earlier post and I quote "I was not commenting on your contribution but if the cap fits". I repeat I was not having a go at you but anticipating comments from those that have never owned a Comfortmatic but comment adversely on them as has happened on previous threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 armstrongpiper - 2016-02-03 5:21 PM I agree totally with Mike88 on his assessment of the unhelpful comments from Tracker. Neil B Only deemed by you to be unhelpful because you disagree. Why could you simply not state 'agree with Mike on his assessment' and let it go at that without taking the opportunity to have a snide dig? It is important that any potential buyer goes into it with as many differing views as possible, much better then to know what to look for and to be able to make up his own mind. He might well love it - who knows - and I hope he does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I have a 6m long A-class 2.3 130bhp with Comfortmatic. It has a drop down cab bed and single bed at rear. I'm quite happy with the overall performance of the Fiat part although it does wheeze a little going over the hill and winding Pennine roads unless I get the 'Up' button on in time and the Comfortmatic does find itself occasionally choosing the wrong gears when in the Pennines. However, it can be used in manual mode for the few occasions its problematic. If you want a proper auto, then get a Merc or an Iveco. The Comfortmatic is good enough for relaxed motoring in a motorhome. Hymer do a decent range of short vans, Rapido and Pilote also have 6m long A-classes. Perhaps you need to think whether you want a rear fixed bed or cab drop down. Hymer have just introduced a 6m van with separate beds! As for downsizing, how much of the space in the Bailey do you actually use? We've had 3x6m long vans and 3x6.3m long vans and we've always had more than enough storage space for up to a family of 4 for two weeks and two of us for at least three weeks of touring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Firstly sorry Tracker but your wrong about gearboxes. Proper automatic gear boxes have a torque converter and for a whole host of reasons stand head and shoulders above anything else. I simply love the auto in our Honda CR-V. Secondly we downsized last year from a medium size AutoTrail to an Autosleeper Warwick XL. Wve ample room to store everthing though the bedding does get rolled up and stored on the drivers seat during the day and the large Quatro leveling blocks when not needed live in the passanger foot well. Fortunately we are both slim so the narrowness is not a problem. I must admit that when I step into a larger coach built in a dealers I do think how nice all that extra room is but driving the narrower PVC with a wheel at each corner and in our case air assisted suspension at the rear is so much better. It is absolutely stable in all conditions and with 150 engine that comes as standard makes short work of overtaking a line of lorries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Thanks Colin. I am familiar with the fundamental differences (if not perhaps the finer point of all the techy bits!) between auto boxes and I do agree that a decent torque converter box is a far better proposition than a poor automated gear change box, but they too need to kick down for a quick overtake so don't always give an instant response, especially Mercs, but Jags are better! The automated boxes seem to be popular these days no doubt because they tend to give better economy than a torque converter auto, and I believe are less expensive to make, and having driven a CRV auto I do agree that it is good - but then it's a Honda not a Fiat innit! That said for the ultimate in smoothness albeit with a bit of high revving when you do boot it have you tried a CVT? We love our Jazz CVT which is not shatteringly quick but it is nippy and does respond instantly at any time when asked. On another level entirely is our Lexus IS CVT which also responds instantly but with a lot more vigour than the Jazz - but then again it cost a lot more too! We are now considering a Honda HRV CVT as that too is a nice car - bit pricey though! We did consider the Warwick XL as the extra length over the standard Duo would have given us enough extra and more accessible storage space to make life so much easier, but then we found our used A/S Executive which at 6.00 m, and only a few cm wider than the Warwick at waist level, and more or less the same height also did everything we want of a coachbuilt but in a compact design that makes it very little larger than the Duo - so we reverted to a coachbuilt. Only managed about 4 trips and some 6000 miles last year and we are delighted with both the van, how easy it is to drive and park and the purchase cost savings which left enough over to buy a boat - albeit a small one! The Exec does take semi cross winds a bit more than the Warwick did but it is by no means unmanageable and certainly far far better than a conventional coachbuilt ever was. I also accept that the Exec layout would not be to everone's taste but as compromises go it works very well for us! Glad you like the XL, must say I do fancy air suspension and 150 gee gees but our meagre 120 humping more or less the same weight does the job very well all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campfos Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I can really comment on the downsizing issue but on the Fiat comfortmatic gearbox I can. My van is a Sunlight T66 which is just under 7 m mark with two single fixed beds the layout is brilliant for my needs. Now on this subject of the comfortmatic gear box I believe it is not a proper auto box no torque converter so to compare it to this is wrong. I have now driven 6000 miles in mine the gear change is a bit long between 1st to 2nd but if you know this drive accordingly it's a motorhome you are driving not a car. But I find it ok to drive and after its in cruise control it eats up the miles effortlessly so I think they are ok. So have a good test drive in one the only other thing I would look for is hill hold as holding them on hills can sometimes be a bit harder you can't hold it on the clutch have to use the brakes either the handbrake or left foot braking. So after you know these points the driving is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 My 2010 3 litre auto box Mercedes Benz IH J220 will be up for sale soon as we've gone brick and bought a place in Spain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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