off road moto Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Hi. We have recently purchased a 2007 swift kontiki 669 motorhome. Love it. However we have noticed the leisure batteries (2 of them) don't seem to charge well when we are travelling. In our old motorhome (and previous caravans) a journey to our destination (normally 2-4 hours travelling) would fully charge the batteries and make them last a whole weekend whilst we were there without having to start the engine. However we ran the batteries flat the first time we used it within 1 night (only using lights!!!) which seemed strange. The batteries are both brand new. Since then when we went away I plugged the van into mains 240 a few days before going away, this made them last the whole weekend no problem. The question I have is this, When plugged into mains the battery indicator shows that around 16amps (cant remember the exact amount off the top of my head) is going into the batteries, however on the move with the van obviously running, it still shows that we are actually drawing a small amount (0.5 amps) from the batteries!! This can not be right as they do charge (all be it very slowly) when driving, but it did concern me. The voltage indicator shoots straight up to 14 volts when the van is started so charging is working, It just seemed strange that a 3 hour journey is still not enough to charge our leisure batteries?? Advice and opinions are very welcome. Sorry for such an essay!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Have you got a switch, that turns from engine to cab charging? We have a swift, which is probably simular to yours, and we have one on the panel, along with the water/dump/pump switches. PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I have a 660 so much about the same. Check the fuses at the split charge relay and ensure they are nice and clean. This is in the centre of the engine bay protected by a large black cover held on by 4 nuts. There will be two relays and a 4-way fuse block. I fitted an additional 10mm2 earth from the leisure batteries to the chassis so it may have helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
off road moto Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Sorry for the slow response. Only just managed to get a look. RE: charging switch on control panel. All we have is a button the in an emergency switches off the split charge system so we can use the cab battery to power lights in rear etc. I've tried pressing this with the engine running but button is dead until engine is switched off. As for the black box in the bay I cant find this? There is a box of tricks located next to the van battery under the cab floor?? and a fusebox in the leisure battery locker which I cant find anywhere a diagram for?? As I say the van does seem to charge the batteries as we have run them flat then ran the engine for a while which has put a little charge in. But a full charge of the batteries unless plugged into 240v mains seems impossible??? Any more ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 It is not a box you are looking for in the engine bay. To the left you will have the starter battery. To the right will be a black box relating to the engine. Between the two, above the centre of the engine there should be a large plastic cover retained by four nuts. Relays and fuse should be under that. This is where it is located in my Kontiki so would have thought it should be the same. The switch on the control panel allows you to run the habitation electrics off the starter battery. It will not function when engine is running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
off road moto Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 I'm slightly confused as our started battery is under the floor in the cab (near side). Are we talking about the same cab design?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Fiat Ducato 2.8jtd ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 The average Motorhome Alternator will charge the Habitation area batteries at about 15 - 20amps. This will tail off to a lower current after about 30 mins, typically down to 10-15 amps. So a 3 hour drive at, say an average 15amps charge, is only going to put in 45Ah into two batteries, so 22.5Ah for each battery. That is less than 25% of a 100Ah battery. So while you may think a 3 hour drive is a long time, you would more likely need to drive for about 7 hours if they were 50% discharged. However, you should be seeing a current going into the batteries? The fact that the voltage at the Habitation batteries goes up to 14v suggests that everything is working as it should, but that current is in short supply for some reason. Possibly a poor connection somewhere or maybe the Fridge is hogging all the power? The Fridge can draw up to 13amps. Have you tried turning off the Fridge to see if the current going into the batteries at a fast Idle increases? If it does, possibly a bad Earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Hi John, First of all correct me if I'm wrong but as you say your vehicle battery is under the passenger floor do you have an X2/50 chassis rather than the older version? (2007 was the changeover year IIRC). Do you have a wiring diagram for your Kontiki? If not you can view (and download) one from the Sargent Electrical web site... http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/Swift_Kontiki-Bessacarr_E700_2007_schematic.pdf Looking at this diagram it appears that the only 12 volt connection to the vehicle battery goes directly to the NE184 Fuse Unit. Then from here there are separate connections to the Leisure Battery and Fridge. So the total current available to charge the leisure batteries AND run the fridge will be limited by this one connection. As Allan suggests try turning off the fridge to see if the batteries charge any better. If so you may have to look at either checking the wiring for any bad connections or damage or even improving the wiring to the battery charging side of things (possibly something like a Sterling or CTEK B2B unit?). HTH, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Keithl - 2016-02-24 6:58 AM.................If so you may have to look at either checking the wiring for any bad connections or damage or even improving the wiring to the battery charging side of things (possibly something like a Sterling or CTEK B2B unit?). HTH, Keith. Re the bold above: or just running a heavier cable to ensure minimal voltage drop on the charging circuit. You may also have to increase the "earth" side from the batteries. While at it, check how the batteries have been wired, and that all terminals etc are clean, bright, and tight. But it seems to me that Allan has the answer. The output from the alternator into the batteries is insufficient for the battery capacity installed, meaning you need to set off on any trip with fully charged batteries. You haven't said what the total capacity of your batteries is, but I'm guessing in the region of 200Ah. From this, it would only be desirable to take 100Ah, but even so you then need to put that 100Ah back into them. I doubt 3 hours driving would come close. Thus, you also risk progressively running the batteries down, as if your draw more than you put back each time the van is used, they will never reach full charge, and will eventually, end up flat. This will permanently damage them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken the kontiki Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 FWIW, our 2008 Kontiki 669 exhibits the same issues. But then again, we have 2 x 100w solar panels on the roof. In reality, and with the size of alternator fitted, 2-3 hours of driving ain't going to fully charge a depleted battery. The charge to the batteries will drop off with other on the move loads and the alternator will also have to cope with other auxiliary items - a/c, fan, headlights etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airstream Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 If your camper does not have a/c then it should not be to hard to fit a second alternator to the enegine dedicated to the hab batteries This is the norm on canal boat engines - split charging went out decades ago Or replace the standard alternator with a Dometic Travel power system 230 volts 3,5 or 7 Kw to power a proper battery charger and all your toys as well Common again on the cut M/H are still in the dark ages where mobile power is concerned Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
off road moto Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 Many thanks for the replys. I will look at the wiring side when I get the chance. turning the fridge on seems to have no effect on A/H reading. Out of curiosity do people just tend to charge their batteries by plugging into the mains before they set off?? This is fine most of the time but if we are away for a while it seems it'll be impossible to re-charge our batteries if we run them flat without plugging in somewhere or running a generator for god knows how many hours?? I appreciate the charging systems are all different, But our 1st motorhome was a van conversion we had done, 2 batteries fitted If we ran the batteries flat we could have them fully charged again within around 2 hours driving???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 off road moto - 2016-02-26 9:35 AM..................I appreciate the charging systems are all different, But our 1st motorhome was a van conversion we had done, 2 batteries fitted If we ran the batteries flat we could have them fully charged again within around 2 hours driving???? Then I think there is something that either we have not yet been told, or possibly that you have not yet appreciated. Two batteries of what size and type, for example. What was the base vehicle, and with what modifications to its electrical system? What do you mean by flat? Reason for questions? Because there is a physical limit on the rate at which a battery can be recharged, and without knowing what size and type the batteries were, it is not possible to know what that rate is. Because without knowing about the vehicle it is not possible to guess what its alternator output might have been, and so to know how fast (under ideal circumstances) it might have been able to recharge said batteries. Because "flat" can mean anything between having a voltage of 12.0V, and having no voltage at all. It is a general rule that a battery should not be discharged below 50% of its capacity (at which point it should show approximately 12.3V when resting). Taking it below this voltage will shorten it life, and taking it down to, or below, 12.0V will be likely to damage it. (There are exceptions under specific circumstances, and with particular types of battery: this is just the shorthand as to what is generally "safe".) But, generally, what you say is pretty well physically impossible, because usually two batteries are fitted to enhance "off grid" endurance, (for which reason they are usually at least 80Ah capacity each - often considerably more), and the larger the battery bank, the longer it will take to recharge. This means that even had you stuck to the maximum safe discharge of 50% (so well short of flat) you would probably have had at least 80Ah to put back (and if really flat, twice that). A standard alternator, as fitted to a standard panel van, would not reliably be able to fully recharge two heavily discharged 80Ah batteries, while also recharging the starter battery and running the fridge plus vehicle ancilliaries, in just two hours of driving. For this to have been the case you would need to have had either small batteries, a more powerful than standard alternator, some form of augmentation to the charging system, or batteries that were not as heavily discharged as you think. My suspicion is that the batteries were not in fact flat, but also that they were not fully re-charged during that 2 hour drive - or something else was going on that we do not yet know about. Sorry if this sounds a bit as though I'm standing you against a wall and throwing knives at you :-), that is not my intention, and I am not disbelieving what you say. All I'm suggesting is that the laws of physics as I understand them (? :-)), say that there is more to know than your explanation provides. If you can add to what you have said along the above lines, it will should help to explain why your Swift doesn't behave as you were expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Can we suggest that you fit an additional Earth Strap in the Engine bay, see the thread titled 'Failed Starter Motor, Battery and Alternator?" for more info. It is only a £5 fix and worth doing regardless of whether it is the issue here or not. It seems to me all the relays connecting the habitation battery to the Starter battery plus bringing in the Fridge seem to be working correctly, just that the Alternator power is not getting through. A possible reason might be a poor engine/chassis Earth, limiting Alternator output which the extra Earth strap might help with? Next step might be to put a current clamp meter on all the cables starting at the Alternator and working through to the Habitation batteries and Fridge to see where it breaks down? Up to now we have assumed that your batteries are good, maybe they are passed their best? Brian is right if you ran two 110Ah batteries 'flat' you would need to put 220Ah back into them to fully recharge them. To do that in 2 hours would require a battery destroying charge rate of over 130 amps (allowing for less than 100% conversion efficiency) when Exide suggest that 20amps is the best compromise charge rate. Such a charge rate would take even the biggest motorhome Alternators to the Brink of destruction. However, In your first post you say 2 - 4 hours? If it was 4 hours, that would make a big difference and drop the necessary charge rate down to 60 amps. It is still likely to destroy the batteries, though. But if the battery was only half discharged, then that brings it down to 30 amps and much closer to almost realistic. So as Brian says you may not be comparing like with like and the little details make a big difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.