keninpalamos Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Hi, can anyone tell me the price, give or take a few £s, how much is charged to buy and fit a new timing belt, idler, tensioner kit to a Fiat Ducato 2.5td 1999. The 2.5 water pump does not run on the timing belt. It runs on the auxiliary, or what used to be the fan belt. Last time it was changed the water pump wasn't mentioned. But now everyone wants to include it in the quotes I'm getting. I think they are under the illusion that on all Ducato engines the water pump is run by the timing belt. I thought that was only the 2.3 & 3.0 litre engines. Not sure about the 2.8. I read a bulletin of researchers report that unless the pump is faulty, ie noise, play or leaking it should not be touched as the failure rate of these pumps is very low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Hi, I paid about 140 for my stargazer fiat 2.3 last year. That was in poole at essanjay tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 My 2.8 JTD engine has a water pump driven by the timing belt and the garage were very keen to replace the pump when they did the belt job. I think it was down to relatively low cost of a replacement pump and considerable amount of labour involved in accessing and changing the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Yes, so do you have a number, an amount in £s so I can do a comparison of what I have been quoted?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Thanks Tony, the 2.3 must be easy to change at that price. I suspect that was just the belt kit price. What I'm after is an overal cost kit and fitting costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 keninpalamos - 2016-03-08 9:32 AM Thanks Tony, the 2.3 must be easy to change at that price. I suspect that was just the belt kit price. What I'm after is an overal cost kit and fitting costs Just got a price yesterday for the full kit including tensioners water pump etc £350. Only got 10000 on the clock but Fiat recommend that on our 2007 2.3 multijet that they are changed every 4 years or a certain amount of miles (can't remember how many). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 It's a few years ago but I think I paid about £450 for the belt job, including replacement water pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Thanks, I think someone is taking the P over here in Spain?? I think I'll re negotiate or get it done in the UK. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 When we had a French van (Pilote) and lived there we were quoted 550 euros and that was 4.1/2 years ago so we had it done at Lancaster on a visit back to the UK, this was on a Renault and the cost was £250 for full kit, unfortunately the Company is no longer there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Randonneur - 2016-03-08 10:16 AM keninpalamos - 2016-03-08 9:32 AM Just got a price yesterday for the full kit including tensioners water pump etc £350. Only got 10000 on the clock but Fiat recommend that on our 2007 2.3 multijet that they are changed every 4 years or a certain amount of miles (can't remember how many). We also have a 2007 version Fiat, and at the MOT for year 4 and also year 8, they would not do the MOT unless the Belt had first been changed. I think you will find all reputable garages / service centres will insist on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Just had our 2004 Ducato 1.9 JTD timing belt kit and water pump changed £380 all up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 Keith T - 2016-03-08 12:21 PM Randonneur - 2016-03-08 10:16 AM keninpalamos - 2016-03-08 9:32 AM Just got a price yesterday for the full kit including tensioners water pump etc £350. Only got 10000 on the clock but Fiat recommend that on our 2007 2.3 multijet that they are changed every 4 years or a certain amount of miles (can't remember how many). We also have a 2007 version Fiat, and at the MOT for year 4 and also year 8, they would not do the MOT unless the Belt had first been changed. I think you will find all reputable garages / service centres will insist on this. Why? This item does not come under the remit of the MOT as it stands at present and dosn't really relate to the Question asked. Thanks anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 We don't think that this is anything to do with the MOT as we bought our van at the beginning of November 2015 and the Dealer had to MOT it at the time, we asked if the timing belt had been done and they told us that because it had only done 10000 miles it wasn't necessary but my OH insists that it needs doing and according to our garage it does, we thought it was every 5yrs but on the Fiat website it is every 4yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Randonneur - 2016-03-09 10:46 AM We don't think that this is anything to do with the MOT... . It doesn't directly but does indirectly! For the 'Metered Smoke Test' part of the MOT the engine will be run to its maximum rpm in neutral for several seconds. If the belt breaks during this test the MOT testing station WILL NOT BE LIABLE for any damage. Hence to protect you, the owner, they are asking to make sure the belt is 'in date'. Quote from page 8 of the Gov.uk website... "Metered smoke test For all private cars and light goods vehicles up to and including 3500kg design gross weight first used on or after 1 August 1979, a metered smoke test will be carried out. Before checking the smoke emissions the Tester will firstly ensure that the engine inlet and exhaust system is fully purged, and the engine speed governor is functioning correctly. The engine speed will be raised to around 2500rpm or half the maximum engine speed if this is lower. Upon reaching this speed, the Tester will hold the engine speed steady for 30 seconds to purge the inlet and exhaust systems, then the engine speed will be slowly increased to maximum to check the operation of the fuel pump governor. Where the engine speed stabilises at its maximum speed indicating that the governor is working, the engine will then be returned to idle speed. Where it is clear that the governor is not working, the engine will be returned to idle speed and stopped, the smoke test will not be carried out and the Tester will be unable to pass the vehicle. " https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/348035/18th-edition-emissions-book-complete.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Keithl - 2016-03-09 12:16 PM Randonneur - 2016-03-09 10:46 AM We don't think that this is anything to do with the MOT... . It doesn't directly but does indirectly! For the 'Metered Smoke Test' part of the MOT the engine will be run to its maximum rpm in neutral for several seconds. If the belt breaks during this test the MOT testing station WILL NOT BE LIABLE for any damage. Hence to protect you, the owner, they are asking to make sure the belt is 'in date'. Quote from page 8 of the Gov.uk website... "Metered smoke test For all private cars and light goods vehicles up to and including 3500kg design gross weight first used on or after 1 August 1979, a metered smoke test will be carried out. Before checking the smoke emissions the Tester will firstly ensure that the engine inlet and exhaust system is fully purged, and the engine speed governor is functioning correctly. The engine speed will be raised to around 2500rpm or half the maximum engine speed if this is lower. Upon reaching this speed, the Tester will hold the engine speed steady for 30 seconds to purge the inlet and exhaust systems, then the engine speed will be slowly increased to maximum to check the operation of the fuel pump governor. Where the engine speed stabilises at its maximum speed indicating that the governor is working, the engine will then be returned to idle speed. Where it is clear that the governor is not working, the engine will be returned to idle speed and stopped, the smoke test will not be carried out and the Tester will be unable to pass the vehicle. " https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/348035/18th-edition-emissions-book-complete.pdf Duly noted, although we have already made arrangements to have ours done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheer lunar-see Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I have just had the misfortune to have had a belt failure in Valencia back in January, they charged ma nearly 3,000 euros to repair the engine, but the price of the belt kit was 215euros and the water pump 99euros, that was on a 2002 fiat 2.8jtd, but I wouldn't recomend the garage as they have left me with a oil leak and further damage to the van when they recovered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 Again, this item does not come under the remit of the Ministry of Transport Test at present and if the MOT test mechanic fails your vehicle on the fact that the timing belt has not been changed but all other points of the list on the MOT have proved satisfactory then he/she is acting outside the requirements and remit of the MOT. If the garage concerned refuses to carry out an MOT, for what ever reason on your vehicle, then that is a different matter. On many cars some parts that need checking are unsighted and it is not possible in the time given to remove covers etc to inspect such items. Most testers used to write this on the pass under comments on the MOT certificate. On large commercial vehicles coaches etc items such as wheel trims had to be removed by the owner prior to the MOT so testers could gain access to tyre valves, wheel nuts etc. anyway, thanks for the info on prices. I have manged to convince a Fiat garage that €500 is better than €750 & a bit closer to reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 On an engine where the water Pump is driven by the Timing Belt there can be extra loading on the Water Pump Bearings plus the Water Pump is usually located behind the Cam Belt cover and out of sight. Therefore they can weep undetected for a while. You only need a slight weep for the water to get into the Pump Bearings wrecking it in a few miles, often throwing the belt with the consequential damage noted above. Many Cam belt 'failures' are down to the Water pump going first on several cars, the Citroen Zsara Picasso is one of many. So the general advice is replace the Water pump, when it is Cam belt driven, at a cam belt change. On your vehicle, failure of the water pump should be detected early plus the damage done is likely to be significantly less and noticeable as warning lights are likely to come on. The 2.5 water Pump itself tends to have a much longer life anyway because of the lighter loads on the Bearings, provided the 'fan' belt is tensioned correctly. You might consider leaving the water pump alone, so long as the bearing feels smooth and just do the Cam belt?. While the parts for the pump are not high, the labour costs can be bigger than you expect because of the need to drain down the coolant, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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