Banner batteries again

[Derek Uzzell]

There seems to be a belief that Varta LFD batteries can never fail and are immune to how they are treated by motorcaravanners. Conversely, that the failure-rate of Banner “Energy Bull” batteries is astronomical whether or not they are used sympathetically and/or their electrolyte-level is regularly checked.

 

No major motorhome manufacturer fits Varta LFD batteries as original equipment (OE) and the vast majority of motorcaravanners who retro-fit them as leisure-batteries will be UK based and following recommendations made on UK websites. Realistically then, the number of LFD batteries retro-fitted over, say, the last 4 years will have been relatively small.

 

Several major motorhome manufacturers have, for somel years, chosen to standardise on Banner Energy Bull batteries as OE. Taking Rapido as an example, each of their new motorhomes has at least one Energy Bull leisure-battery and, as Rapido’s annual output is around 10,000 motorhomes, that means that some 40,000 Energy Bull batteries would have been installed in Rapido products over the last four years. That’s an awful lot of Energy Bull batteries and Rapido is just one of the motorhome manufacturers fitting them as OE.

 

Let’s say 1000 Varta LFD batteries have been retrofitted to motorhomes since 2012. If 1% of those batteries fail within that period, that’s just 10 batteries. But if 1% of the 40,000 Energy Bull batteries fitted as OE to Rapidos have failed since 2012, that’s 400 batteries. And if 400 Rapido owners have had their leisure-battery fail within 4 years, you’d think there would be a lot of moaning about this – but there is not.

 

Varta LFD wet-acid batteries are ‘sealed for life’: there’s no means of topping up their electrolyte-level even if you wanted to. Banner Energy Bull wet-acid batteries are not sealed: it’s possible to top up their electrolyte-level and, as with any non-sealed wet-acid batteries, it’s advisable to keep an eye on their electrolyte-level. How often that check should be carried out will depend on how the battery is being used, but the longer and ‘harder’ the usage the more regular the checks should be.

 

David has said that motorcaravanners are not made sufficiently aware that ‘non sealed’ wet-acid batteries’ electrolyte-level can and should be checked. Banner’s Energy Bull advert says

 

“MIN/MAX markings on the transparent battery casing and easy opening make the battery maintenance-friendly”

 

and

 

“Low maintenance is secured by minimum water consumption and self-discharge”

 

Me, I don’t think it’s easy to check the electrolyte-level via the MIN/MAX marking and the filler-plugs certainly can be difficultto unscrew and retighten if you do not have a suitable tool. Banner quotes >4g/Ah water-consumption, but I don’t know if that can be considered “minimum”.

 

My own experience is that an Energy Bull battery will need its electrolyte-level periodically replenished, and if a battery cannot be readily accessed (eg. a cab-seat first has to be removed) it’s likely that a check will not be carried out during a habitation service. If the motorhome’s owner is also unaware that an Energy Bull battery should be ‘maintained’ and there’s nothing in the motorhome handbook to say otherwise, there won’t be a happy ending. But if that happens, it would be unrealistic to blame the battery...

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Just to add a bit to Derek's post above, I think the Banners that have been most complained about are the AGM type. This seems mainly to be because the chargers did not provide the appropriate regime for batteries of this type. As Derek says above, but in a different context, it seems rather unfair to blame the battery when the unsuitable charger is selected and installed by the motorhome converter. I'm sure it was a mistake on their part, as they probably hadn't understood how the battery would respond to being charged as for gel. After all, there is no gain to the converter from selling motorhomes that eat batteries.

 

The whole battery issue is complicated.

First the battery must be charged in a manner that suits its chemistry.

Second, the battery needs to be used fairly frequently, to cycle its charge/discharge, or it loses the ability to re-charge fully.

Third, it should not be discharged below a certain level, or it will be damaged, but that "safe" maximum discharge level is different for the different types, and different again due to technological differences within each type.

Fourth, it should not be left endlessly attached to a mains charger, unless that charger is able to "read" its charge state, and only re-charge it when its charge level has fallen sufficiently to justify this. This applies also to solar chargers where, with the van out of use, the controller is not always subtle enough over the rate of charge it tries to feed into an already fully charged battery.

Fifth, a heavily discharged battery should be fully re-charged as soon as possible, and not left in its discharged state. (Driving to re-charge a battery that is down to 50% of its capacity requires several hours of continual driving, or the battery will not have fully re-charged before the next discharge cycle begins, meaning that over time the battery will progressively become deeply discharged and so damaged.

Then, as if the above were not sufficient, there are guidelines about the rate at which a battery should be discharged and re-charged relative to its capacity in Ah, disregarding which is also liable to cause damage. This seems to particularly catch out those who add battery capacity without paying attention to the outputs available from their alternator / solar controller / on-board mains charger.

 

It seems to me that keeping a van's leisure battery properly maintained and healthy requires a depth of knowledge that very few motorhomers posses, that cannot realistically be anticipated by converters in selecting appropriate charging devices (because they cannot know how "hard" a given owner will drive their battery), and that also exceeds the knowledge available in most (if not all!) motorhome dealership workshops. Add to this mix that the odd "duff" battery gets manufactured, and the best advice that can be given to any motorhomer is similar to that about choosing one's parents with care. Just make sure you were born lucky! :-)

[aandncaravan]

Derek, I don't think a £79 battery is ever going to get a following that will gain, "..... a belief that Varta LFD batteries can never fail and are immune to how they are treated by motorcaravanners".

 

 

Most people would not be able to buy direct from Banner Batteries so unlikely to ever see the website.

They would rely on the retailer to pass on the Info, or even better for Banner to do it via a label on the top of the battery, saying 'they lose fluid and Gas so need topping up especially on long term EHU or Solar'.

 

Even now, after all this time, why are Banner not putting a simple label on the battery warning of it's limitations?

Maybe because no one would buy them?

 

 

Brian, you are quite right. So why don't battery manufacturers put that info on the label??

Why isn't there a minimum discharge voltage on all batteries, etc.

What the battery is made of?

Why isn't there a recommended charge voltage so you can see if fits your van?

Why not openly publish the manufacture date so you can see if the battery retailer is ripping you off with old, dead, stock?

What about a traffic light system that indicates is Cyclic ability so a rough guide to it's life?

 

 

I don't understand why I can buy a packet of Sweets and read about every single ingredient, right down to a tiny flavour 'E', the manufacture date and the sell by date, etc. yet I can't tell if the battery I am buying was made two years ago and already 'dead'?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

If there’s a god, why hasn’t he/she/it put a message on the front of the moon to confirm his/her/its presence?

 

Unlike sweets there is no legislation compelling battery manufacturers to label their products with more information than they do. If they aren’t forced to do it, they won’t.

 

Even if Banner put a big label on the top of their “Energy Bull” batteries saying “The electrolyte-level should be checked every month”, that would not stop motorhome manufacturers hiding the things under cab seats.

[Mick Bajcar]

RoadPro, who do supply Banner batteries do give some advice as follows :-

 

'When used with a solar panel, a battery to battery charger or a mains charger that's on for days at a time, the electrolyte levels of Energy Bull batteries must be checked on a regular basis. This is easily done thanks to the translucent case. As with any wet lead-acid battery, if the electolyte is found to be low, it needs to be topped using distilled water. The filler caps on an Energy Bull battery are fitted with a seal which is designed to be leak-proof and so we recommend the use of the special Banner cap removal tool which enables the caps to be removed easily and without damage.

 

If used moderately and charged only by the vehicle’s standard charging system and perhaps an “intelligent” charger such as our CTEK models, evaporation of the electrolyte will be minimal but the levels should still be checked on a regular basis.'

 

There is no definition of regularly of course ! I nneeded to replace my leisure battery but as it is in a box set into the floor that advice made me realise that checking it would not be easy, necessitating its removal so I bought a different one that is supposedly maintenance free.

 

Mick Bajcar

[aandncaravan]

Roadpro, one of the biggest Banner battery retailers in the UK allegedly write :

'When used with a solar panel, a battery to battery charger or a mains charger that's on for days at a time, the electrolyte levels of Banner Energy Bull batteries must be checked on a regular basis".

 

EXCELLENT.

One of the biggest Banner retailers in the UK is now saying Banner Energy Bull don't work well with Solar or long term EHU.

 

Alleluia!!

 

Hang on though? If they really don't like 13.8v for a few days, how do they cope with 14.4v from an Alternator on a long journey to Spain? Or 9,000 miles each year?

 

 

Whatever. We finally have confirmation that Banner Energy Bull are not suited to the Motorhome industry in to which they have been introduced.

Both of the above points, maybe a third, are things that the majority of people have come to expect a Motorhome battery would be fit for.

 

So it seems lots of people have been mis sold a lot of batteries?.

I hope that those out that are responsible, refund at least 50% of the value of the batteries to those who have suffered?

 

 

Derek, you are right that manufacturers only put the minimum on a battery because that is all they Legally have to do. But no reason why we can't challenge that, is there?.

Tyres have recently been given a Traffic Light system for Grip and Efficiency, etc. lets see if can get something started for Batteries?

 

We are therefore going to lobby to have the legislation changed. This thread alone is probably enough to get 'Which' alerted. I will email them and see what response we get?

 

We will start a new Thread with the aim of collecting as much support from as many as possible.

Please can we ask all to look out for it in the next few days, and maybe support it?

 

In the mean time can we have ideas on what you want to see on a battery.

So far we have :

 

What about a traffic light system that indicates its Cyclic ability so a rough guide to it's life?

 

Why isn't there a minimum discharge voltage on all batteries, etc.

 

What the battery is made of?

 

Why isn't there a recommended charge voltage so you can see if fits your vans charger?

 

Why not openly publish the manufacture date so you can see if the battery has been in stock a long time?

 

 

 

[Steve928]

aandncaravan - 2016-11-22 3:49 PM

 

'When used with a solar panel, a battery to battery charger or a mains charger that's on for days at a time, the electrolyte levels of Banner Energy Bull batteries must be checked on a regular basis".

 

EXCELLENT.

One of the biggest Banner retailers in the UK is now saying Banner Energy Bull don't work well with Solar or long term EHU.

 

 

 

Where that's then? All I can see is them saying that you must check the electrolyte levels - surely not a big ask.

[aandncaravan]

It is when Roadpro, Bailey, etc originally stated they were maintenance free and the majority of the failed batteries were bought under that premise.

 

But I also suspect a lot of people would not have bought a high maintenance battery, as a lot of locations ARE difficult to check fluid levels.

 

Until recently most people were under the impression that all batteries were maintenance free or low maintenance. Anything different to the norm should have clearly flagged.

A thread on here not that long ago is proof of that, as we took a lot of stick saying they gassed a lot, until people starting posting they had also seen a lot of lost fluid, which clearly surprised them at the time.

I will see if I can find it.

 

 

We have seen a lot of people be out of pocket, and with major inconvenience, they think they have been misled. Many have had associated issues following the batteries failure taking out the Alternator or charger.

 

We are delighted to have brought the issue to the fore, ask those out there who have suffered if it is 'a big ask'.

[Steve928]

I think you can leave Bailey and their owners out of your list as the batteries are very easily accessed. Sure a few failures were caused initially by Bailey's poor documenation suggesting that they were maintenance free but those batteries were replaced like-for-like under warranty. The Bailey owners' group now has over 1200 members, the vast majority having solar, and the subject of Banner batteries just doesn't come up for discussion as it seems that nobody has any issues with them. Most owners, when fitting a second hab. battery opt for another matching Banner. My own is just coming up to it's second birthday and is doing just fine.

[aandncaravan]

Sorry, I am not sure what you are saying? That it is ok for Baily to misrepresent a batteries qualities, for whatever reason?

 

I am a Bailey fan, but they should have known better.

Regardless of your experience, batteries that were sold as maintenance free have now been shown to be anything but.

 

For whatever reason mistakes have been made that the companies responsible should acknowledge and put right. Bailey included.

 

Be interesting to see how they all publicly respond over the next few weeks.

[Steve928]

aandncaravan - 2016-11-22 4:29 PM

 

Sorry, I am not sure what you are saying?

 

Believe me, the feeling is mutual.

[aandncaravan]

That has been said a lot before, so is not surprising, but doesn't matter.

 

What is important is what Dr Dave's original Post states, the reply of Rolandrat and all the others who have had a bad experience with Banner batteries.

[lennyhb]

Brian Kirby - 2016-11-21 5:54 PM

 

Just to add a bit to Derek's post above, I think the Banners that have been most complained about are the AGM type. This seems mainly to be because the chargers did not provide the appropriate regime for batteries of this type.

I would agree with you BUT Banner say that the Gel charging regime is correct for their AGM batteries - Bl**dy liers.

[Derek Uzzell]

Banner’s advice regarding charging their “Running Bull” AGM batteries is

 

"Only use voltage-regulated chargers with an IU-characteristic and the AGM/GEL charging programme.”

 

As has been repeatedly said here in the past, the battery-chargers fitted to motorhomes were (until quite recently) not optimised for AGM batteries.

 

I’ve no idea if the Schaudt ‘non-AGM’ chargers fitted by Hymer (and plenty of other motorhome converters) were actually destructive to Banner AGM batteries when the charger’s gel setting was chosen, but if that were so I would have thought AGM batteries from other manufacturers would have been similarly affected.

 

If Hymer chose to combine ‘unsuitable’ Schaudt equipment with AGM leisure-batteries and standardised on Banner batteries, is it Banner’s fault or Schaudt’s or Hymer’s if the batteries start to fail prematurely?

 

 

[arthur49]

aandncaravan - 2016-11-22 7:55 PM

 

That has been said a lot before, so is not surprising, but doesn't matter.

 

What is important is what Dr Dave's original Post states, the reply of Rolandrat and all the others who have had a bad experience with Banner batteries.

 

I agree Allan, there should be better labelling. However, the problem across all business and industry is many are dominated by Marketing Departments, whose role is to market and sell and the truth/facts don't matter if it gets in the way of a sale! Trust me, I did not work in Marketing but I did have a lot of contact with them .....

:-S

[Derek Uzzell]

The NCC “Verified Leisure Battery Scheme” was supposed to help in choosing a battery based on the leisure-vehicle owner’s usage pattern.

 

http://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx

 

I hesitate to use the phrase “Leisure Batteries For Dummies”, but essentially that’s the thinking behind the scheme with just three battery ‘classes’ (A, B or C) and a simple pictorial label with symbols relating to a battery’s intended purpose.

 

I’m (mildly) amused to see that the Banner batteries in the Class A list

 

http://www.thencc.org.uk/downloads/Verified_Battery_Register_8June_2016.pdf

 

are both AGM “Running Bull” products.

 

[david lloyd]

Yes, and neither Varta LFD or the Bosch L series equivalents appear on the list.........

 

David

[Derek Uzzell]

Bosch “L”-Series batteries are listed (dunno why) as “Platinum Bosch”. Mentioned here

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Banner-Batteries-Knackered-After-6-Months/40167/31/

 

plus other (disparaging) comments about the NCC scheme.

[david lloyd]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-11-23 2:38 PM

 

Bosch “L”-Series batteries are listed (dunno why) as “Platinum Bosch”. Mentioned here

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Banner-Batteries-Knackered-After-6-Months/40167/31/

 

plus other (disparaging) comments about the NCC scheme.

 

Mmmm....the thing is, does any of that really help me make a truly informed decision about which battery would be best?

 

A bit like the new thread on the NCC Approved Workshop Scheme. If there is any truth in the experience outlined it seems a company being on the NCC list is not really any guarantee that the work will be done any better than going to a workshop not on the list.

 

As you gather, I'm not really a fan of such 'verification' lists etc. At best, they may be a reflection of what is found by the people running them on the day they look - and even then it is a subjective view of the person checking or compiling the list.

 

In the end I took the advice of an independent company (aandncaravans) in deciding which batteries to replace my Banner with and only time will tell now whether that proves to be a better way than trusting the NCC list of batteries. Fingers crossed eh.

 

David

[aandncaravan]

Just been exchanging with another poor person who suffered dead Banner Energy Bull batteries a few days ago and we said check the fluid levels.

 

Tonight they write :

"Now back to the batteries, one needed half a LTR of deionised water the other needed 2 ltrs.

So I think the lazy b*@ger that did the hab check in July didn't check the levels".

 

AND

 

We worked on a Murvi Morroco PVC for a John Coleman today who had a charging issue from the Alternator.

This is not made up, genuinely started work on it at 10:30 and finished at 14:30 today. I can supply full validated details to back this up if anyone wants the info, despite the timing this is genuinely todays major job.

 

We fixed the issue and then did a full electrical health check which includes a battery check.

 

Owner thought batteries were maintenance free.

 

To get to the batteries, you have to take off all the cushions, slide the bed right forward to expose a cupboard behind, see photo 1.

 

You then had to remove the screws, remove the panel to expose the batteries, see photo below.

Can you see how easy they are to top up?

It took 50 minutes from start to finish to expose the batteries, ease them out (they were as tight as they look).

Remove the Tops (for a high maintenance battery they make them dammed hard to undo!!) top them up and get them back in. That is not easy when they are so big and the gap so tight.

Put the cupboard back in place, then slide the bed back and replace the cushions.

Easy it was not.

Clear the PVC had not expected the batteries to ever come out till the failed.

 

I rang Murvi to see if they would pay for my electrical work as the vehicle was quite new and well in Warranty.

I also asked if they realised the Banner Energy Bull was a high maintenance battery and that expecting customers to do what I had just done every month was far from ideal. (That is my nice way of writing it) :)

 

Murvi thought the Banner Energy Bull was maintenance free. Info from the supplier.

 

They said the would 'discuss all the issues' if the owner contacted them.

 

Hopefully they will issue a recall and replace the batteries?

 

If Vic M. has Banner batteries in his Hymer when I turn up at the Tan y Bryn Caravan site tomorrow I will scream!!!

 

 

P.S.

 

Just got an email, sent 19:56 but just picked, that says :

"Hi Alan

Just to say thank you for the work done, Murvi have agreed to pay your invoice. I will send them a copy and your report".

 

Well done Murvi!! Not what I expected to happen at all.

 

 

.

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-11-23 9:41 AM

 

Banner’s advice regarding charging their “Running Bull” AGM batteries is

 

"Only use voltage-regulated chargers with an IU-characteristic and the AGM/GEL charging programme.”

 

As has been repeatedly said here in the past, the battery-chargers fitted to motorhomes were (until quite recently) not optimised for AGM batteries.

 

I’ve no idea if the Schaudt ‘non-AGM’ chargers fitted by Hymer (and plenty of other motorhome converters) were actually destructive to Banner AGM batteries when the charger’s gel setting was chosen, but if that were so I would have thought AGM batteries from other manufacturers would have been similarly affected.

 

If Hymer chose to combine ‘unsuitable’ Schaudt equipment with AGM leisure-batteries and standardised on Banner batteries, is it Banner’s fault or Schaudt’s or Hymer’s if the batteries start to fail prematurely?

 

 

Derek, A bit of background to all this which might clarify a few things, but you must not tell any one as part of this is confidential.

 

Back in 2013 it was predominantly Banner AGM we saw failing but there were the odd Energy Bull wets.

We posted on the website what we saw with the failed AGM's and a warning about the Energy Bull's gassing a lot and not being suitable inside the Hab area.

 

It was because of the webpage content that we were contacted by Paul Matarewicz, Country Manager, Banner Batteries (GB) Ltd, and Lee.

The email exchange was extensive, which I can't go into but basically it was along the lines that charging an AGM on a Gel setting would be fine and our website was nonsense. That the failed batteries must be from improper use, etc.

 

They did admit they were unaware that some Motorhome/Caravan chargers only put out a fixed 13.5v, but would update the website pages warning not to buy unless an 'expert' had confirmed the vehicle was fit for AGM to be installed.

They also said they would improve communication with retailers, as one of the very biggest was saying 'charge AGM on the Wet battery setting'.

Sure enough a warning, not to retrofit an AGM battery to a vehicle that had been rolled out with one from new, went on the Banner website.

However the Retailers kept pushing AGM's to both Caravan and Motorhome buyers, without asking what chargers they had, etc.

 

Schaudt's part:

You have to bear in mind that Hymer is a huge Schaudt customer. I would imagine that what Hymer say goes.

I got the impression that Hymer did a deal with Banner on AGM batteries. This deal, IMO, was not based on what was good for the customer, but good for the manufacturer Dealers.

Manufacturers have a big problem with conventional batteries degrading on the shelf, while the Motorhome is waiting to be shipped/sold, on the forecourt, etc. Conventional batteries not only run down, but show signs of stress when charged up after going flat. AGM are much more tolerant of sitting around. If they discharge, although it's life is severely shortened, usually appear to be ok till the Sale goes through.

 

I think Hymer did the deal and orderd trillions, then told Schaudt who had no option but to do the best they could with what they had been given.

 

One customer had an email conversation with Schaudt's top tech man, someone I have a lot of time for.

The customer sent us a copy of the email, which I still have, in which he directly told 'the Techie' that AandN were telling everybody Schaudt Elektroblock's and AGM don't go.

 

The customer directly asked should he bin the AGM in his 2 month old Hymer and fit a Varta like we said.

The Techie, obviously in a difficult position if he went against the company line, answered by saying 'no keep the AGM until it dies, then fit a conventional battery'.

Not -"AGM is good, yes use for all time".

 

Hymer must have asked Schaudt to rush through AGM optimised kit and that's where we now.

Except that Hymer have ditched Banner and now fit Varta.

 

We think the AGM's failed because they just didn't get fully charged. a) because a gel setting means it takes forever and b) the chargers were not delivering 14.7v. This meant they sat around at 80% charge for ages Sulphated and collapsed.

 

An AGM on a Gel setting takes a long time to fully charge, but the publicity from the retailers and Banner was all about 'faster charging AGM', just follow some of the old threads were we got decimated, so it is likely that Joe Public bought an AGM and didn't allow it twice as long on mains as previously that it might have needed to charge fully.

Maybe even drove shorter distances in the belief it was getting fully charged when it probably wasn't.

 

If you look at the sales of AGM batteries in 2013 - 2015 they were almost all Banner and pushed specifically into the MH market. Lots of advertising in magazines, journalists talking about fitting them to there own MH's, etc.

 

Only recently have other manufacturers AGM's become available and not really pushed into the MH market.

Just by the NCC scheme without warning about suitability to the charger. Not one comment, yet they seem to 'targeting' caravans with Motor Movers, which mostly have a 13.5v charger.

 

So the harvest of those will be in the next 24 months. They should be easy to track back to NCC verified purchasers by the manufacturer.

 

 

 

 

Obviously some of the above is true and some guess work, which is why it must stay between you and me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Mick Bajcar - 2016-11-22 9:28 AM

 

RoadPro, who do supply Banner batteries do give some advice as follows :-

 

'When used with a solar panel, a battery to battery charger or a mains charger that's on for days at a time, the electrolyte levels of Energy Bull batteries must be checked on a regular basis. This is easily done thanks to the translucent case. As with any wet lead-acid battery, if the electolyte is found to be low, it needs to be topped using distilled water. The filler caps on an Energy Bull battery are fitted with a seal which is designed to be leak-proof and so we recommend the use of the special Banner cap removal tool which enables the caps to be removed easily and without damage.

 

If used moderately and charged only by the vehicle’s standard charging system and perhaps an “intelligent” charger such as our CTEK models, evaporation of the electrolyte will be minimal but the levels should still be checked on a regular basis.'

 

There is no definition of regularly of course ! I nneeded to replace my leisure battery but as it is in a box set into the floor that advice made me realise that checking it would not be easy, necessitating its removal so I bought a different one that is supposedly maintenance free.

 

Mick Bajcar

 

 

I have found the old thread from December 2015, where someone had copied from Roadpros website what it said at the time :

 

RoadPro (who have marketed Energy Bull batteries for quite a few years) include the following in their website’s FAQ section:

 

Q) Do I need to check my Banner batteries?

 

A) “Energy Bull” batteries don’t require maintenance in normal use; however, ideally you should check the electrolyte levels a couple of times during the first year in order to ensure that they are being charged correctly. From then on, it’s a good idea to check them once a year.

 

 

“Energy Bull” batteries don’t require maintenance in normal use".

 

 

[shaggy]

This is a very informative thread on batteries however as I'm due to replace our ageing leisure battery I have the following need.

 

Our motorhome will only take one battery and no larger in size than its present one which is the same size as the Varta LFD 90. We have no solar panel like wild camping and at present with the 100ah battery can manage 3/4 days before moving on to charge the battery. Would it still be better to buy the LFD90 over a similar size battery with 110ah capacity ? Has the more efficient LFD 90 as much usable power as the larger capacity battery ?

[aandncaravan]

When a battery is constructed there are choices that have to be made on Capacity versus Durability. Generally (very broad brush generalisation) the greater the durability that is required, the lower the battery Ah capacity.

 

For example the very durable long life Exide G80 is an 80Ah battery at the physical size of L-353mm, W-175mm, H-190mm of most Motorhome battery boxes

.

The Deep Cycle Varta LFD90 is 90Ah, again in the same physical size as a G80.

 

The Bosch S5 Starter Powerframe battery that we heavily supported in 2012 was a slightly bigger 100Ah in the same physical package

 

The similar physical sized budget Lion leisure battery is a 110Ah battery.

 

We would suggest that you only shallow discharge a battery of this last type, which are usually in the budget range, if you want any sort of life out of it?

 

It has been suggested that the 110Ah, in this size, are not always what it says on the label.

 

The more 'fragile' batteries are likely to have a faster drop off in capacity than the more durable units.

 

By two years of age a more 'fragile' battery is likely to have significantly less real capacity. That is assuming it has not failed altogether?.

 

An LFD90, doesn't degrade internally anywhere near as fast as a conventional battery, so performs closer to it's max rating for longer, right to end of life, for the same use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[david lloyd]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-11-23 2:38 PM

 

Bosch “L”-Series batteries are listed (dunno why) as “Platinum Bosch”. Mentioned here

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Banner-Batteries-Knackered-After-6-Months/40167/31/

 

plus other (disparaging) comments about the NCC scheme.

 

Sorry Derek, I got myself confused with the model numbers - it was the Bosch S5 (which Alan refers to above) and the Varta LFD batteries that are not on the list.

 

David