OXY Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 This question is aimed at Nick Fisher AKA Euroserv really, as I have come across his name as being a bit of an expert on this type of thing. Or any one else who has had this problem. I have a Autosleeper Talisman on a 2.8 Peugeot which is the same van as a Fiat Ducato really. It has a turbo but no EGR valve and it has The ECU with the small Three pin plug next to the Air filter. I have had this problem since owning it. and it seams a common problem but I can't find a cure. The van runs fine, but at 2000 – 2300 rpm I get a misfire where it seems that the engine holds back then goes. At first it was a proper jerking. It makes no difference to actual speed or which gear, its in. only at that RPM. I have had several people look at it but to no avail, but a few months ago I took it to a Diesel injection specialist who had it for several weeks. He is based near Bristol and is a very knowledgeable person. He ended up fitting a new set of Injectors, a Cam belt while it was all taken apart and a new Fuel Filter. This made an improvement and cost me a lot of money. The fault is still there but not as Jerky. It seems to run for a while then when you hit that spot under load it gives that misfire. I have been researching the internet for months and can't find a solution. I have replaced the throtle peddle as I had a fault where the engine almost cut out and the injector light came on. I was excited about this as it put up a fault code and I thought this was the problem. But when I changed the peddle that fault was cured but not the original one. There are no fault codes and the Diesel people had the equipment connected up while I was driving, and with the problem happening, it showed no faults on the equipment. We use the van every Weekend and cover around 250 miles, so it don't stop us using it but when driving for a long period it becomes a real niggle and you are waiting for it to happen. This weekend I put in some Turbo cleaner but that made no difference. To me it feels like the turbo not quit coming in or sticking then it goes. The Injection people said the turbo system is too basic for this to give that fault. I hope someone can help as its really annoying..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 There are a few possibilities.... First we need to know the age and mileage. I suspect that this is an early common rail engine (Fiat call it JTD and Peugeot would call it HDi) Perhaps 2000 to 2001? There was an engine called 2.8IdTD but Fiat would not let PSA have that one and Peugeot/Citroen vehicles had make to do with their own 2.5TDi for quite a while until the common rail 2.8 engine launched and was available for the French as well. Does it ever emit any black smoke when under load and the problem is occurring? My first instinct is to suspect either the turbo waste-gate actuator might have a blocked pipe or leaking diaphragm followed by the high pressure fuel pump followed by the fuel lift pump (located in the top of the fuel tank). Lets gather as much information as we can about the problem and work through it.... Factors that limit the power output of an engine are; Poor compression (worn engine) Restricted fuel supply Restricted air supply Electrically limited due to a fault or apparent fault Turbo or intercooler restriction/malfunction. Restricted flow of exhaust gasses. That's it. It will be one of those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OXY Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 Hi Thanks for the reply... Yes it is a 2001 registered 2002. Has 85,000 MIles. It is the HDi common rail engine....No smoke emitted at all. Good compression tested by the injector people. They said the injectors were not as bad as they thought they would be, and put the new set in as a test which made the engine much better. The Jerking was nowhere near as bad but the problem was still there. The Cam belt was a tooth out so it was changed due to the age of it. The van runs very well except for this and seems worse when running on country roads with the van swaying about. On the motorway at constant speed its fine. It really is annoying and ruins the driving experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 OXY - 2016-11-15 8:30 PM The van runs very well except for this and seems worse when running on country roads with the van swaying about. On the motorway at constant speed its fine. My guess... euroserv - 2016-11-15 4:13 PM Electrically limited due to a fault or apparent fault. Possibly a loose or broken electrical connection? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I am with Keith on this one. I suspect that one of the electrical connectors to an injector is faulty. There is no history of injector faults or electrical connector faults prior to the 2002 restyle but the connectors and injectors are exactly the same, so it's entirely possible and since the plugs were all removed to swap the injectors; this is probably why you saw an improvement.... for a while. The two pin plugs for Bosch injectors can be obtained cheaply from Ebay sellers and they come with a little wire attached; which is a big help. It's a fairly easy soldering job but you MUST make sure they are connected back up correctly and that the joints are heat shrunk. I think there is a good chance that this is the answer and it should not cost more than £20 for materials and an hour of your time or that of a garage. Has to worth a go. I should add that if this were a 2.8JTD from 2002 onwards with a proper OBD socket; the engine management light (injector symbol) would be illuminated if the above diagnosis were correct. The Bosch EDC7 system on the slightly older vehicles does not indicate injector faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OXY Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 Thanks guys but the injection specialists that had it know all about the tight cable and connector issues and checked all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OXY Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 Also would this make it happen at the same RPM everytime ? why not at other revs. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap44 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Worse on bumpy roads when swaying about could point to picking up perhaps a blockage in the tank. Not enough to totally block the pick up pipe/filter then gets washed off on the next sway. Just my 2p worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OXY Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 I have done a lot of searching on the net about this and quite a few people with the same problem come up, but with no definitive answer. One guy had new injectors, new Turbo, new throttle wiring loom, new fuel Pump and injector pump, New throttle peddle, but still had the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OXY Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 Euroserv....Where are you based ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 OXY - 2016-11-17 12:27 PM Euroserv....Where are you based ? Nick is based in Leicester. This from an earlier post... http://www.ileicestershire.com/profile/455683/Leicester/Eurotruck-Hire-Ltd/ Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Oxy, I take it that you have not had the vehicle from new. I had terrible problems once with a simple diesel ( no computer) where a poor electrical connection gave the symptoms of fuel starvation. Initially it was rev related but got worse and proved to be a loose electrical connection to the 'Stop' solenoid. Vibration was making and breaking the contact turning the fuel very rapidly on and off. It will not be your problem but there has been a long history of earth strap related faults with the Ducato and its cousins that have been cured by fitting a new strap.It is essential to have a sound contact between the rubber mounted engine and chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OXY Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 No I have had the vehicle just over a year and did not really notice the problem until we done a few long journeys. I have heard the Earth strap mentioned before and will check this out. It is such an annoying thing as you are around this RPM range quite a lot. It seems there are so many things it can be. I have been leaning towards the Waste Gate Actuator for a while and was going to get this replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 It was the mention of rough roads and swaying magnifying the miss that made me think of it This is the time of greatest movement of the power unit on its mountings. The straps have be known to corrode but there are so many strands contacts are made and broken all the time so that the actual voltage available to the ECU or individual components may intermittently fall outside their operation range for tiny fractions of a second. Well its a possibility, best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OXY Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 Just an update on this problem. I changed both the Turbo waste gate actuator and had the longer leads put on the plug tops as suggested by Nick at Euroserv but this made no difference. Finally I seem to be getting somewhere.... A few weeks ago I had an MOT done and the mechanic friend of mine asked a diesel injection guy he knows to take a look, which he did and he has made a big difference. But he can't get hold of him to find out exactly what he done. The misfire is now a single stutter at exactly 2000 rpm not 2300 as before. Here is what happens.... As you accelerate it seems fine, then as you hit 2000 it takes off with no effort and the throttle is very very responsive, just a touch and it goes with no effort. Other times it doesn't and seems to hold back and you have to press the peddle more, but If you never drove the van then you would think this is normal. But when it does the blip and accelerates then it's like a different van. My friend says the guy adjusted something on the throttle at the engine end but does not know what and he can't get hold of him. It feels like sometimes it sticks and sometimes it just goes. Any ideas ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vino Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Oxy very interested in your solution as I have a 2.8JTD 2002 and does exactly the same thing Have had the nozzles replaced on the injectors and still the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OXY Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 Yes I have read a lot on the internet about this but no definitive answer. If you read my posts you will see I have had about Four specialists look at this to date and this is the only person that has made a real difference so he has found the problem but not quite cured it. Last week I covered 350 through Wales and for the First Two days or 100 miles I had no stutter but not full power but if you never knew the van, you would think this was normal. But then the next day it was doing the other thing and had responsive accelerator now and then and felt like a different van. So annoying that I can't get hold of this guy to know what he done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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