fiat dashboard lighting?

[Bryan40]

Hi Derek.

Going back to your post on 15 May we brought the motorhome back yesterday and when it got dark I checked on the lighting of the speedo and rev counter dials - without turning on the lights - and you are right both were illuminated to the same intensity. So no progress in determining that there are other problems. The fact is that the Fiat design team have made a hash of the cluster and with the addition of the binnacles the dials are shielded. The result being that in bright daylight the speedo is unreadable.

 

I too am interested in your LED option but am concerned about wiring in the suggested switch and the LEDs themselves. I am practical but do not wish to invalidate any warranty by attaching additions by crimps etc to the existing wiring. Any suggestions on how to proceed?? Thanks

Bryan

[crocs]

Yes, I too would be interested in a step by step guide to installing LEDs. Are you up for it Derek?

[Derek Uzzell]

When driving the LEDs are going to receive 'alternator voltage’ that will be above 14V and, consequently, the LEDs will get warm. It would be possible to regulate them down to 12V - when they would run cooler - but I didn’t bother and there haven’t been any signs of overheating.

 

I experimented with ordinary pointing-straight-down LEDs and the sideways-pointing versions and chose the latter. You may be able to see from the photo that there’s a black ‘strip’ visible under the cover - this is a narrow piece of thickish rubber that is directly behind the LED strip and avoids any possibility of back-glare.

 

The surface of the cover’s underside needs to be absolutely clean before positioning the LED strip on it. If this is not the case, and/or the adhesive used on the LED strip is not top quality, expect the strip to become detached when the LEDs warm up. Having decided where best on the cover’s underside to position the LED strip I removed the cover, drilled a hole to take the LED’s cable (the cover is double-walled), drilled a hole for the On/Off switch (it’s to the right of the tachometer, just out of shot in the photo). I then ran cables down to the fusebox near to the cab door, piggybacked on to an ignition-controlled fuse and connected to a handy earthing bolt.

 

The lighting arrangement only impacts on the original Fiat wiring where the supply-cable piggybacks on to the fuse. Potentially any DIY modification MIGHT invalidate a vehicle’s warranty, but this one is pretty risk-free as long as one is careful.

 

The X250 instrument-cluster design was poor when it came to readability and the X290 cluster with the chromed ‘hoods’ is worse. However, I don’t think that the X290 cluster without the chromed hoods is much inferior readability-wise to an X250’s and I’m a mite surprised such a fuss has been made about it (and even more surprised that Fiat did something about it) when all those thousands of X250-based motorhome owners didn’t seem to have been much concerned. Besides which there are plenty of vehicles with even worse in-daylight readable instruments (eg. my two Ford Transit-based motorhomes and my 2009 Skoda car).

[colin]

I've got to say, never had any problem with Fiat x250, and the Citreon x290, but not sure about chrome trim, so that may be the problem?

[crocs]

Thanks for posting the guide, Derek. That helps knowing where to run the cable.

 

I tend to agree that, if they hadn't fitted the cowl, the light level would have been sufficient.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

colin - 2017-05-16 3:19 PM

 

I've got to say, never had any problem with Fiat x250, and the Citreon x290, but not sure about chrome trim, so that may be the problem?

 

A photo of an X290’s instrument-cluster that has the chromed cowls is attached to my posting of 15 May 2017 8:27 AM above and I’ve attached another photo below where the panel’s lighting is illuminated.

 

In dim daylight conditions the cowls will tend to ‘shadow' the speedometer and tachometer dials but, when the backlighting is on, the shadowing effect may well improve dial-visibility.

 

The 29-06-2016 posting by “sharealike” in this Fiat Forum thread

 

http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/425538-new-ducato-imala-m-home-instrument-cluster-illumination-4.html

 

shows a ‘cowled’ instrument-cluster with the transparent front section removed. It will be seen that the chromed trim is stuck to the transparent front, but the speedometer and tachometer both have their own cowl as part of the panel’s black plastic moulding.

 

It should be straightforward to convert a ‘cowled’ instrument-cluster into a ’non’cowled’ one, but you’d need the necessary bits. A local Fiat Professional agent told me that, when the instrument-cluster is replaced under warranty to resolve the spurious warning-lights problem, Fiat don’t normally ask for the original panel to be returned to them. So, if anyone wanted to ‘de-cowl’ their instrument-cluster, they might try scrounging a redundant faulty cluster from a Fiat Professional agent.

[Bryan40]

Hi Derek

Thanks for the reference to the post on the other forum. The next post on that forum dated 6 July is interesting -

 

'Had the mod carried out by FIAT so that the dash lights are on all the time. Even on full brightness the dials are still hard to see, except in really dull conditions.

I have a small piece of tinfoil stuck to the top of the steering column with blue tac, mounted to reflect natural light through the windscreen onto the speedo. Works a treat.

Colin '

 

Before doing any more I am going to give the tinfoil idea a go and see what transpires.

Bryan

[Bop]

I appreciate the fact that we're all trying to root-cause the dash problem in this thread but you have to admit that this has become a comical topic (in some ways).

 

Can you imagine the scene when you hand over your £70,000 of hard earned cash for a new motorhome.

 

Customer: "I'm not accepting it unless you've done the tinfoil mod".

 

Dealer: "Sir, anything for you sir; it's all sorted sir - The addition of the tinfoil does look fantastic sir; it really finishes if off IMO - Sir".

 

:D Sorry guys

[colin]

Bop - 2017-05-17 8:59 AM

 

I appreciate the fact that we're all trying to root-cause the dash problem in this thread but you have to admit that this has become a comical topic (in some ways).

 

Can you imagine the scene when you hand over your £70,000 of hard earned cash for a new motorhome.

 

Customer: "I'm not accepting it unless you've done the tinfoil mod".

 

Dealer: "Sir, anything for you sir; it's all sorted sir - The addition of the tinfoil does look fantastic sir; it really finishes if off IMO - Sir".

 

:D Sorry guys

 

Funny enough that might be a solution, a chromed section in the column covering.

As for dash lighting, I must have posted this before, my Suzi (designed in conjunction with Fiat) has dash lighting which comes on when ignition is switched on. There are two different levels which can be set, with and without lighting, I have mine set full brightness without lights, and low level when lights are on, most of the time this works well, the exception is when I switch lights on in bright but poor visibility, in which case the dials are very hard to see.

[Bryan40]

I have had the modification done and the background lighting comes on automatically with the ignition. However it is definitely not adjustable (I queried this with the Fait Professional dealership) and can only be dimmed when the sidelight/headlights are on. This is operated via the 'mode'. button.

[Len Salisbury]

I know that this is a MH forum but what about the normal everyday panel vans around UK is there a problem with them?

As I have mentioned before with the sun coming over your right shoulder the instrument panel is lit up naturally and I don't think it could be bettered. As far as I am aware even with this modification of having the lights on the dials permanently ON when the ignition is on will not improve the illumination. I have a Peugeot 206 with white dials and the instruments are clear to see. So why don't FIAT change to white from black? Simple.

[Bryan40]

Yes - simple but costly!! I understand that the problem only applies to RHD UK vehicles.

[Derek Uzzell]

Poor in-daylight readability of an X290’s speedometer will be worse for RHD Ducatos because the speedometer (being on the left side of the instrument-cluster) will be well away from the cab side-window..

 

For LHD Ducatos (like my Rapido) the reverse is true - the speedometer is on the cab side-window side of of the instrument-cluster and, consequently, it’s easier to see the speedometer than the tachometer.

 

A secondary complaint by UK motorcaravanners is that it’s near-impossible to read the inner km/h scale of an X290’s speedometer. This is indeed so and (Dare I say it?) should be obvious from a cursory glance at the design of the dial.

 

The km/h-only speedometer of an LHD Ducato X290 marketed outside is reasonably easy to read in daylight - it’s not great, but I’ve seen worse. It would seem from earlier comments that Fiat’s software revision may now have been standardised and - if that’s so - should apply to all new Ducatos RHD or LHD. As far as I’m aware the software revision could be applied to my LHD Ducato if I asked for it to be done.

 

I’m not forever looking at the speedometer when I’m driving a car and, when I’m driving outside the UK, I rely on the km/h speed readout of my sat-nav.

 

GOOGLE searches on “speedometer design” for various manufacturers will show that there are plenty of instrument-clusters that are ergonomically probably no better (or are even worse) than Ducato’s, and much of the problem lies in trying to shoehorn a ‘conventional’ pair of round-dial speedometer/tachometer instruments into a limited space. Much better in my view to go for a digital approach with the speed shown as a simple number and a readout that can easily be switched betwen mph and km/h (as shown on attached photo).

[crocs]

Even better is one that is totally configurable by the user in terms of the shape/format of the dials and whether m/km or analogue/digital or a mixture of both.

 

My new range rover has this function as there are no physical dials, just a display screen that projects your customised configuration.

[Keithl]

Len Salisbury - 2017-05-17 10:12 AM

 

I have a Peugeot 206 with white dials and the instruments are clear to see. So why don't FIAT change to white from black? Simple.

 

 

Len,

 

Why not ask Lockwoods if they would make you a 'custom' dial in white? You never know, they may even add it to their range!

 

http://www.lockwoodinternational.co.uk/custom-dials/custom-dials-for-kit-cars.html

 

http://www.lockwoodinternational.co.uk/dials/mph/fiat/a-l/ducato.html

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

Keithl

 

Len has already done that.

 

See his posting of 19 April 2016 9:54 AM on this earlier forum thread

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-instrument-illumination/41380/

 

Len’s is a 2009 Boxer X250-based Autocruise Pace, so the Fiat software revision canot be applied to it. As current complaints primarily seem to relate to X290 models (that have different speedometer dials to X250s) I doubt there’d be much of a market for a white X250 speedo face.

 

 

[Len Salisbury]

Derek you are on the ball with Lockwoods regarding my problem I can't remember what the outcome was in the end from last year. Price!

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

No the LHD have the same problem of the dial top covers as in the RHD.

[Derek Uzzell]

Not my experience (and I have a LHD Ducato X290).

 

The instrument-cluster of LHD X250s and X290s is a) poorly designed and b) not easily readable in certain daylight conditions, but the speedometer of RHD X250s and X290s is harder to read in such conditions than the speedometer of LHD X250s and X290s because of its on-the-left position in the cluster.

 

(For monochrome colour inversion, see attached photo)

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

My dial is at 12 o'clock at 100 km/h. That is readable anything left goes darker. Unless your are a Lilliput. Not sure about the miles dial. This is a safety matter in motor-homes and need to be solved quickly by fiat. This is a legal thing not according EU type approval.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Seeing the miles dial picture now from Derek you are in the same scale and more confusing because of a dual scale. How ever it gives a sporty look. What a design misfit by fiat having nice clocks but unreadable.

[Bryan40]

I am giving up with the thought of changing dials and backlighting. I have just taken delivery of an iNeibo Universal GPS Head Up display from Amazon. This plugs into the cigarette lighter and once set up projects the speed up onto the windscreen in front of you. Ordered tongue in cheek and ready to return if it does not work as described. Although it is a rather dismal overcast day today the projection is very bright. The brightness can be adjusted if necessary. It will be interesting to see how it goes in bright sunlight. I was persuaded because there were reviews on it from driving instructors who set it up on the nearside so that they could monitor their pupils speeds. It can also be set to KPH or MPH. We are off to France so will use it extensively to keep speeds down through 50KPH villages.

 

Will report on success when we return - no internet access whilst we are away.

Bryan

[david lloyd]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-05-17 1:42 PM

 

Keithl

 

Len has already done that.

 

See his posting of 19 April 2016 9:54 AM on this earlier forum thread

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-instrument-illumination/41380/

 

Len’s is a 2009 Boxer X250-based Autocruise Pace, so the Fiat software revision canot be applied to it. As current complaints primarily seem to relate to X290 models (that have different speedometer dials to X250s) I doubt there’d be much of a market for a white X250 speedo face.

 

 

But speedo dials don't have to be white to be clear.

 

My 2015 Volvo V40 has black dials but the lighting of the numerals and indicator are bright white and permanently lit but which reduce in brightness automatically in lower light condition. Additionally, you can select a digital readout in either MPH or KPH. Not really rocket science for manufacturers I guess but likely to be more expensive than Fiat pay for theirs.

 

David

[Len Salisbury]

Just another point nobody has mentioned the other dials and the computer. I have resorted to using the brighter/more powerful LED tonight and taking the adhesive tape off the LED strip and two pieces of an old number plate super glued to the strip and mounted on a piece of wood with double side tape. I'm going for a test ride now but some of my driving will be West and into the sun.

[Len Salisbury]

The result as far as I am concerned was that the overall illumination was excellent but the kph part of the speedo dial was poor because it was smaller and would be the same reversed for mph.