Proud to be a motorhomer?

[John52]

pelmetman - 2017-01-18 9:40 AM

 

John52 - 2017-01-18 9:36 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-01-18 8:59 AM

If I recall correctly the EU banned the spreading of human waste on fields some years ago ;-) ..........

 

Seems like a lot of things we have done for hundreds of years (and some people still do) that don't comply with new Health and Safety Regulations. *-)

 

Apparently the reason was because human poo no longer contains just poo.......but traces of all the drugs we pop to 8-) ........that said farmers still spread animal poo, and they're just as dosed up with drugs as us humans :-S ..........

 

 

Ah well I suppose there is logic in that if the poo is feeding crops that we eat. But if its only feeding a hedge?

[StuartO]

John52 - 2017-01-17 10:20 PM

globebuster - 2017-01-17 9:49 PMNot sure muck spreading is the same as disposing of human excrement!And given the nice cocktail of urine, poo and toilet roll that gets churned up in a cassette, that's really unacceptable.The truth is some people are just slovenly, idle, selfish thickheads.There was even bloke who used to come on this forum who professed to crapping in a bag and throwing it in the nearest waste bin! If I recall he thought that was ok too!!!

Well you haven't explained why you think human waste in a hedgerow is worse than farmers muckspeading.Can you logically explain why bagged human waste is any worse than bagged dog waste in a dog waste bin (or an ordinary litter bin that accepts bagged dog waste?)Or are you only capable of spreading insults?

 

Spreading human waste on fields as fertiliser is still common practice in third world countries but it is associated with the spread of human disease.  Cows and sheep are vegetarians and that makes a difference too.  Either way, dumping a motorhome toilet on someone else's property without permission is slovenly and selfish - and probably also idle, even if the person isn't stupid.  It cannot possibly be a matter of human rights to exercise yourself in this way, even if you do dump it into someone's hedge rather than on their front door step.

 

But he wasn't insulting you John52, just characterising those who do

this sort of thing.  That doesn't include you does it?

 

[StuartO]

pelmetman - 2017-01-17 1:44 PMIt'll probably be some oike in a 60k motorhome who's too mean to pay for campsites :D ..........

 

Aren't they called Travellers?

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

John52 - 2017-01-18 9:10 AM

 

If chucking small amounts in a hedge is really such a terrible thing, it would be more civiised to explain why...

 

John(Peter?)..

 

Read the OP again. This isn't just some lone vehicle or some location that only gets used on the odd occasion.

It says that there have been vans there for up to 3 months (I'm assuming that they're not all the same vans? but maybe a constant flow, coming and going over that period?).

 

But either way, accumulatively, it obviously wouldn't be just "..small amounts..." would it?..

 

That's the crux of this type of issue: The "..I was only there for a couple of days...I only chucked a small amount into the hedge..I did manage to rinse most the loo paper and solids from off the side manhole culvert but didn't want to waste all my water..", is of little comfort, when there's going to be a constant stream of folk doing the same.. :-S

 

As I always say on these types of discussions: If it's supposedly okay to do it whilst out & about in their vans, well away from where they live, maybe they should try it nearer home(in their street?), just to see how they get on... ;-)

 

Sorry Stuart, I crossed your post ('got distracted midway through typing :$ )

 

[artheytrate]

pelmetman - 2017-01-17 1:44 PM

 

It'll probably be some oike in a 60k motorhome who's too mean to pay for campsites :D ..........

 

 

You just sounded like hadenough Dave. (lol)

 

John.

[John52]

StuartO - 2017-01-18 10:01 AM

dump it into someone's hedge rather than on their front door step

 

The OP said it was a hedge alongside a field behind their property, which didn't sound like it was near their front door step. Talk of dumping it on their front door step suggests trying to make it sound worse than it is. Why do that?

Human waste has been recycled into the ground for millions of years, I suppose its the most natural way of recycling it? I take the point about modern drugs in human waste feeding food crops, but isn't this only feeding a hedge?

PS: No mention of it causing a stink but if it is I suppose the campers are nearest to it?

[747]

I cannot let a good Poo thread pass by without getting involved. :D

 

I have wildcamped a lot (only in the UK) without despoiling the environment. I carry a folding spade and have only had to use it to bury my cassette contents twice in 10 years. Both burial spots were in isolated places where people and animals will not dig it up again. ;-)

 

After all these years of using my motorhome, I have settled on using C&CC THS most of the time and wildcamping much less. This is partly due to increased restrictions but also because of some of the selfish, ignorant motorhome owners and their selfish, dirty habits. I have no wish to be associated with this minority (although they are now a sizeable minority). :-(

 

No doubt some OAL member will find my actions to be downright dirty and foul. That will not bother me as I don't fraternise with other wildcamping motorhomers when on a trip. A smile and a 'good morning' is as much interaction as I want. That is my opinion after being involved on motorhome forums for some years. I think many of you are a right queer lot. :-S

[StuartO]

John52 - 2017-01-18 11:44 AM

StuartO - 2017-01-18 10:01 AM dump it into someone's hedge rather than on their front door step

The OP said it was a hedge alongside a field behind their property, which didn't sound like it was near their front door step. Talk of dumping it on their front door step suggests trying to make it sound worse than it is. Why do that?Human waste has been recycled into the ground for millions of years, I suppose its the most natural way of recycling it? I take the point about modern drugs in human waste feeding food crops, but isn't this only feeding a hedge?PS: No mention of it causing a stink but if it is I suppose the campers are nearest to it?

 

Slavery and female genital mutilation have been going on for rather a long time too but civilised people don't do them.

 

747's approach (taking a spade and burying it deep, where it won't be seen or even ploughed up) is reasonably civilised if push comes to shove but simply empyting your cassette on to the ground, even under a hedge, isn't.

 

[John52]

StuartO - 2017-01-18 12:25 PM

John52 - 2017-01-18 11:44 AM

StuartO - 2017-01-18 10:01 AM dump it into someone's hedge rather than on their front door step

The OP said it was a hedge alongside a field behind their property, which didn't sound like it was near their front door step. Talk of dumping it on their front door step suggests trying to make it sound worse than it is. Why do that?Human waste has been recycled into the ground for millions of years, I suppose its the most natural way of recycling it? I take the point about modern drugs in human waste feeding food crops, but isn't this only feeding a hedge?PS: No mention of it causing a stink but if it is I suppose the campers are nearest to it?

 

Slavery and female genital mutilation have been going on for rather a long time too but civilised people don't do them.

 

747's approach (taking a spade and burying it deep, where it won't be seen or even ploughed up) is reasonably civilised if push comes to shove but simply empyting your cassette on to the ground, even under a hedge, isn't.

I think that if you want to persuade them to your point of view you need to explain WHY it isn't acceptable. If you just go up to them all high handed and say its not acceptable they'll likely just tell you to P*ss off :-|

[globebuster]

I watched that very programme - All that transportation of human waste was in an era before sanitation, as we know it, ever existed - anywhere.I daresay peoples dietary input was far less complicated, probably more akin to todays animal waste I would imagine. The whole idea was to rid the big cities of human waste that was causing so much illness.

But this is not the dark ages is it?

 

I'll stick to my statement - I would say chucking any excrement into a hedge is totally uncivilised - by action alone, and I guess anyone who practises that slovenly attitude is probably too thick to comprehend any wrong-doing!

 

To civilised people in general, I don't think you would need to validate the argument, but I can assure you if I did encounter such any activity my words might not be quite so choice.

 

I can totally understand discreet waste disposal as 747 suggests - that does show real responsibility and respect for the environment.

 

Frankly, leaving your human crap in a hedgerow is no better than 'recycling' your old sofa in the same place - it's bloody idle, and thoughtless.......

 

[Robbo]

When I was a boy scout, we usually camped on farm land. The farmer would prepare a slit trench about 5 foot deep with his JCB. On departure the senior scouts would backfill the trench with the spoil.

 

I remember spending the least time possible in the latrines as the smell was so horendous. Happy days !!!

 

Consequently, I support the posts made by 747 and StuartO (and possibly others), providing the disposal of human waste is carried out in a responsible manner and doesn't endanger the environment such as the contamination of underground water resources etc.

 

This of course opens up another can of worms. The Environment Agency in the UK is probably the only source who will advise on what you can and can't do at any particular location.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

StuartO - 2017-01-18 10:01 AM

 

Spreading human waste on fields as fertiliser is still common practice in third world countries...

 

Just for the record, this practice continues in the UK

 

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/human-waste-robinson-contract.111300/

 

http://robinsoncontractservices.co.uk/yorgrow-biosolids/

 

I remember - quite a few years ago - sewage sludge being ‘injected’ into the soil of the field directly behind my house. We are used to the odour when chicken or turkey muck is used as manure, but the sludge treatment smelled far far worse. Later that year tomato plants appeared all over the field.

 

[StuartO]

John52 - 2017-01-18 1:29 PM

StuartO - 2017-01-18 12:25 PM

John52 - 2017-01-18 11:44 AM

StuartO - 2017-01-18 10:01 AM dump it into someone's hedge rather than on their front door step

The OP said it was a hedge alongside a field behind their property, which didn't sound like it was near their front door step. Talk of dumping it on their front door step suggests trying to make it sound worse than it is. Why do that?Human waste has been recycled into the ground for millions of years, I suppose its the most natural way of recycling it? I take the point about modern drugs in human waste feeding food crops, but isn't this only feeding a hedge?PS: No mention of it causing a stink but if it is I suppose the campers are nearest to it?

 

Slavery and female genital mutilation have been going on for rather a long time too but civilised people don't do them.

 

747's approach (taking a spade and burying it deep, where it won't be seen or even ploughed up) is reasonably civilised if push comes to shove but simply empyting your cassette on to the ground, even under a hedge, isn't.

I think that if you want to persuade them to your point of view you need to explain WHY it isn't acceptable. If you just go up to them all high handed and say its not acceptable they'll likely just tell you to P*ss off :-|

 

Not sure that's realistic.  I know that cholera can be spread by using human night soil as fertiliser but I couldn't produce exhaustive scientific evidence off the cuff to prove it and some of these head bangers will call black as white anyway to assert their own biggoted view, so you're waisting your time trying to persuade them.  It's a bit like trying to explain to a left wing socialist that Jeremy Corbyn is a loser; even if it happend (i.e. when he loses the next By Election) they'll have some other explanation - like it was an evil Tory stitch up.

 

If they can't see that emptying a toilette cassette on to someone else's land without permission, even if it isn't on the front doorstep, is uncivilised, you can't help them. 

 

[StuartO]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-01-18 3:40 PM

StuartO - 2017-01-18 10:01 AMSpreading human waste on fields as fertiliser is still common practice in third world countries...

Just for the record, this practice continues in the UKhttps://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/human-waste-robinson-contract.111300/http://robinsoncontractservices.co.uk/yorgrow-biosolids/I remember - quite a few years ago - sewage sludge being ‘injected’ into the soil of the field directly behind my house. We are used to the odour when chicken or turkey muck is used as manure, but the sludge treatment smelled far far worse. Later that year tomato plants appeared all over the field.

 

This is treated solids from sewerage works they're talking about, not toilet cassette contents or untreated cess pit contents!

 

[fesspark]

Well,i have started something here, people are find if they do not pick their dog crap up but to some think its o.k. to tip human crap around,as far as burying it, as an ex commando we dug latrines and crapped in the desert.I think that we had no other option.ha ha.

[John52]

John52 - 2017-01-18 1:29 PM

I think that if you want to persuade them to your point of view you need to explain WHY it isn't acceptable. If you just go up to them all high handed and say its not acceptable they'll likely just tell you to P*ss off :-|

 

globebuster - 2017-01-18 2:39 PM

 

I watched that very programme - All that transportation of human waste was in an era before sanitation, as we know it, ever existed - anywhere.I daresay peoples dietary input was far less complicated, probably more akin to todays animal waste I would imagine. The whole idea was to rid the big cities of human waste that was causing so much illness.

But this is not the dark ages is it?

 

I'll stick to my statement - I would say chucking any excrement into a hedge is totally uncivilised - by action alone, and I guess anyone who practises that slovenly attitude is probably too thick to comprehend any wrong-doing!

 

To civilised people in general, I don't think you would need to validate the argument, but I can assure you if I did encounter such any activity my words might not be quite so choice.

 

I can totally understand discreet waste disposal as 747 suggests - that does show real responsibility and respect for the environment.

 

Frankly, leaving your human crap in a hedgerow is no better than 'recycling' your old sofa in the same place - it's bloody idle, and thoughtless.......

 

You still just keep insulting them and saying its uncivilised without explaining why :-S

[John52]

StuartO - 2017-01-18 3:49 PM

br />Not sure that's realistic.  I know that cholera can be spread by using human night soil as fertiliser but I couldn't produce exhaustive scientific evidence off the cuff to prove it and some of these head bangers will call black as white anyway to assert their own biggoted view, so you're waisting your time trying to persuade them. 

But thats presumably where waste from people with Cholera its used to fertilise food crops. Not waste from uninfected people, or where it is used to fertilise hedgerows?

[John52]

fesspark - 2017-01-18 3:55 PM

 

Well,i have started something here, people are find if they do not pick their dog crap up but to some think its o.k. to tip human crap around,as far as burying it, as an ex commando we dug latrines and crapped in the desert.I think that we had no other option.ha ha.

 

Do you think tipping it under a hedge at the side of a road by a field is as bad as leaving dog crap on the pavement or playing field?

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Yes that time with the 20ltr boxes is over. You will get bigger tanks from the toilet makers. But in that case you can not drop the cassette in your garden hopefully whit green tablets. Since you have the brexit from europe take it home whit you on your beautiful island :-D

[747]

We are starting to wander off topic a bit by bringing Dog faeces into the argument but I feel I should mention something.

 

In many areas where the Public have access, the guardians (Park Rangers, Wardens etc.) are advising that Dog poo can be flicked into the undergrowth, as opposed to bagging and binning. As long as it is moved somewhere out of the way of footfall, it is acceptable as it will break down quickly. Long term, it is better than having abandoned plastic poo bags hanging from tree branches or littering paths.

[globebuster]

John 52,

 

Let me ask you something, if I may -

 

Do you think it's uncivilised/inappropriate/unacceptable to leave the contents of your cassette under a hedge?

[Brian Kirby]

John52 - 2017-01-18 4:18 PM

 

fesspark - 2017-01-18 3:55 PM

 

Well,i have started something here, people are find if they do not pick their dog crap up but to some think its o.k. to tip human crap around,as far as burying it, as an ex commando we dug latrines and crapped in the desert.I think that we had no other option.ha ha.

 

Do you think tipping it under a hedge at the side of a road by a field is as bad as leaving dog crap on the pavement or playing field?

I have to say, I'm puzzled, too, John. I've just read down this thread and you do seem to be arguing, quite strenuously, against every post that condemns this behaviour.

 

You have argued that lifting a manhole cover is a justified way to dispose of cassette contents, on the basis that manhole covers are only used in foul drains. This is certainly not the case in UK, they are placed at intervals along any long underground drainage run (foul or surface water) to allow blockages to be cleared. Ditto at changes of direction, ditto on abrupt changes of level. But, who knows what drainage practises are elsewhere in Europe? The only thing that can be said with certainty, is that they are liable to differ from UK practise. The only "safe" assumption is that the drain is surface water, and will discharge untreated to sea, lake, or river.

 

You have also argued that there is no real harm in emptying the cassette along the line of a hedge. The question of the risk of spread of disease has been well rehearsed above, including the fact that there are restrictions on the practise in UK, and most developed countries, for just that reason. There are also frequently ditches adjacent to hedges, and ditches frequently flow into water courses.

 

Add that it is impossible (well, not something I'd choose to ask, or sample! :-)) to know the contents of someone else's cassette. What of the chemical additives some place in the cassette, some of which contain formaldehyde? Then, what of the undigested toilet paper, possibly condoms etc, that may be included? They festoon the base of the hedge until rain etc. washes them away, and Spain, in large measure, is a dry country.

 

But, above all, what of the impression left on others who discover these unsightly and odorous discards? Who are they likely to think are the culprits, given that few vehicles other than motorhomes and caravans have cassette type toilets, and that few caravanners indulge in "wild" camping. Is it not obvious that discovery of the aftermath of such practises would generate revulsion and indignation in any member of the public, leading eventually to greater and wider restriction on motorhoming?

 

I'm not making personal judgements, nor am I casting aspersions, but I do wonder why you are persisting in defending what is, in essence, a totally unnecessary practise. It just seems to me common sense that this is, at the very least, an aesthetically repugnant practise, that can only harm the longer term interests of motorhomers in general.

[artheytrate]

Nicely put Brian.

 

John.

[Robbo]

artheytrate - 2017-01-18 7:32 PM

 

Nicely put Brian.

 

John.

 

Here, here. A good knowledge of Civil Engineering combined with common sense.

[John52]

Brian Kirby - 2017-01-18 7:09 PM

 

John52 - 2017-01-18 4:18 PM

 

fesspark - 2017-01-18 3:55 PM

 

Well,i have started something here, people are find if they do not pick their dog crap up but to some think its o.k. to tip human crap around,as far as burying it, as an ex commando we dug latrines and crapped in the desert.I think that we had no other option.ha ha.

 

Do you think tipping it under a hedge at the side of a road by a field is as bad as leaving dog crap on the pavement or playing field?

I have to say, I'm puzzled, too, John. I've just read down this thread and you do seem to be arguing, quite strenuously, against every post that condemns this behaviour.

 

You have argued that lifting a manhole cover is a justified way to dispose of cassette contents, on the basis that manhole covers are only used in foul drains. This is certainly not the case in UK, they are placed at intervals along any long underground drainage run (foul or surface water) to allow blockages to be cleared. Ditto at changes of direction, ditto on abrupt changes of level. But, who knows what drainage practises are elsewhere in Europe? The only thing that can be said with certainty, is that they are liable to differ from UK practise. The only "safe" assumption is that the drain is surface water, and will discharge untreated to sea, lake, or river.

 

You have also argued that there is no real harm in emptying the cassette along the line of a hedge. The question of the risk of spread of disease has been well rehearsed above, including the fact that there are restrictions on the practise in UK, and most developed countries, for just that reason. There are also frequently ditches adjacent to hedges, and ditches frequently flow into water courses.

 

Add that it is impossible (well, not something I'd choose to ask, or sample! :-)) to know the contents of someone else's cassette. What of the chemical additives some place in the cassette, some of which contain formaldehyde? Then, what of the undigested toilet paper, possibly condoms etc, that may be included? They festoon the base of the hedge until rain etc. washes them away, and Spain, in large measure, is a dry country.

 

But, above all, what of the impression left on others who discover these unsightly and odorous discards? Who are they likely to think are the culprits, given that few vehicles other than motorhomes and caravans have cassette type toilets, and that few caravanners indulge in "wild" camping. Is it not obvious that discovery of the aftermath of such practises would generate revulsion and indignation in any member of the public, leading eventually to greater and wider restriction on motorhoming?

 

I'm not making personal judgements, nor am I casting aspersions, but I do wonder why you are persisting in defending what is, in essence, a totally unnecessary practise. It just seems to me common sense that this is, at the very least, an aesthetically repugnant practise, that can only harm the longer term interests of motorhomers in general.

 

Well said Brian

I didn't mean to defend the practice. As I said in my first post

 

John52 - 2017-01-17 3:49 PM

Need to see it to make an informed opinion.

 

Its just that the anti motorhome / wild camping brigade often seem to invent or exaggerate problems to further their agenda. So I just wanted to establish what nuisance had actually been caused before joining in the lynch mob ;-)