VE DAY

[Guest pelmetman]

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 10:38 AM

 

I bet if the likes of John52 had posted such a view, he would've been jumped on and torn into for being a "loony La La land leftie" who was "disrespecting" those who had died during the conflict... :-S

 

 

The difference is with the loony lefties if we were attacked ;-) ..........they wouldn't fight back 8-) ......

 

Corbyn & Co are a right bunch of surrender Monkeys (lol) .......

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/22/exclusive-britain-risk-terror-attack-jeremy-corbyn-becomes-prime/

 

 

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 12:17 PM

 

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 10:38 AM

 

I bet if the likes of John52 had posted such a view, he would've been jumped on and torn into for being a "loony La La land leftie" who was "disrespecting" those who had died during the conflict... :-S

 

 

a) The difference is with the loony lefties if we were attacked ;-) ..........they wouldn't fight back 8-) ......

 

Corbyn & Co are a right bunch of surrender Monkeys (lol) .......

 

b) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/22/exclusive-britain-risk-terror-attack-jeremy-corbyn-becomes-prime/

 

 

a) Really?..and you know that of all "lefties" how?

(..."lefties", socialists etc are often derided by some for being "Commies"...and I seem recall that the likes of the communists in Russia and China etc..are pretty good at sticking up for themselves..?)

 

and from your Torygraph link.

b) "Exclusive: Britain at risk of terror attack if Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister, Tory chairman warns" shocker! *-)

[malc d]

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 9:26 AM

 

 

 

As for WW2 wasn't that all about stopping Europe from being dominated by Germany?........well that worked didn't it >:-) ........

 

 

 

Yep.

 

Sure did.

 

 

If you have any doubt I suggest you have a look at Hitlers plans for Britain if they had won WW2.

 

 

:-|

[Guest pelmetman]

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 12:49 PM

 

 

a) Really?..and you know that of all "lefties" how?

 

Doesn't matter what they think if Corbyn is PM ;-) ........

 

He ain't going to pull the trigger :-| ........Furthermore he'll scrap our deterrent *-) ........

 

 

[RogerC]

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 8:49 AM

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 8:00 AMHow very Jeremy Corbyn *-) .........No doubt he to wonders why folk aren't prepared to agree with his pacifist views ;-) .........

Apologies to everyone else but....It wasn't so many months ago that you were telling us all that we shouldn't have even got involved in WW2, as the Nazis invading Poland, "wasn't our fight"..!? (it was amongst one of your many "bl**dy foreigners.. coming' over 'ere " motivated posts) So how do you square your previous view, with your comment above..?(It'd also be interesting to hear RogerC's view on your- we shouldn't have got involved- approach..?) I would've thought that the likes of VE Day is not just a time to remember the "military" causalities/sacrifices but also a time to think of the many thousands of civilians who would've also perished..be it in a concentring camp or whilst just sheltering down in their family homes... :-S

Most definitely not a view I agree with and had I seen it in it's original form I would likely have commented as such.  Likely my reply would not be in the manner in which I would have responded to John because where a comment is made in relative isolation (not as part of an ongoing tirade of abuse towards things most of us hold dear) and is posted by someone with a degree of level headedness one can respond in a similarly civilised manner.

My responses to John have been such because of his unfailing ability to hijack most every topic he responds to with his anti this, that and everything else attitude..........except of course Chartists and Suffragettes.  

I have already posted an apology to Veronica regarding the hijacking of her well intentioned topic but I see nothing from John to acknowledge the same.

[Brian Kirby]

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 12:49 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 12:17 PM

 

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 10:38 AM

 

I bet if the likes of John52 had posted such a view, he would've been jumped on and torn into for being a "loony La La land leftie" who was "disrespecting" those who had died during the conflict... :-S

 

 

a) The difference is with the loony lefties if we were attacked ;-) ..........they wouldn't fight back 8-) ......

 

Corbyn & Co are a right bunch of surrender Monkeys (lol) .......

 

b) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/22/exclusive-britain-risk-terror-attack-jeremy-corbyn-becomes-prime/

 

 

a) Really?..and you know that of all "lefties" how?

(..."lefties", socialists etc are often derided by some for being "Commies"...and I seem recall that the likes of the communists in Russia and China etc..are pretty good at sticking up for themselves..?)

 

and from your Torygraph link.

b) "Exclusive: Britain at risk of terror attack if Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister, Tory chairman warns" shocker! *-)

I think it would also be fair to add those who went to fight in the Spanish civil war. Mostly, young idealistic, and doubtless naïve, but lacking courage?

 

Why do people assume right, and courage, only reside on their side, or in their image? Do such acts really need to be divided along party political lines? It seems to me to add nothing to the selflessness humanity of their acts, whatever the cause. They all risked, and in many cases, lost, their lives for something they believed at the time worth the risks.

 

How any of us might have behaved under the same circumstances is unknowable, however heroic an image we may hold of ourselves. When the time comes, some go toward the guns, and some turn away, and very few stop to analyse why they act as they do. Even then, some change their minds about the value of the cause, and desert, or take up arms where they previously refused. Are they more, or less, noble then those who acted in the heat of the moment?

 

In reality, very few have the luxury of choice in such matters: most are merely the victims of circumstance, whether civilian or military. Is someone who died quaking with fear less a hero than someone whose life ended in an unforeseen instant? They were all just in the wrong place, at the wrong time. So long as human beings exist, that time and that place will still be somewhere just around the corner. Never forget that, and treat the bellicose patriot with great caution.

[malc d]

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-09 2:39 PM

 

 

Why do people assume right, and courage, only reside on their side, or in their image?

 

 

 

 

I always assume it's because they don't keep themselves very well informed.

 

 

:-|

[RogerC]

malc d - 2017-05-09 4:16 PM

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-09 2:39 PMWhy do people assume right, and courage, only reside on their side, or in their image?

I always assume it's because they don't keep themselves very well informed. :-|

I would disagree with that.  Apart from countries where conscription is still in place and the government repressive I would suggest most military people are very well informed.

What I would question is what Brian said:

"Why do people assume right, and courage, only reside on their side, or in their image?"

Surely the answer is clear that those who enter into conflict do so in the belief that they are right and will win through.  One hardly goes into battle with the understanding that one is wrong and losing is inevitable.

It really is quite simple and applies equally to confrontations/conflicts/differences the world over and it is this:

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". 

If taken with a degree of latitude that can be applied to most any situation involving armed conflict.........

[pepe63xnotuse]

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-09 2:39 PM

 

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 12:49 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 12:17 PM

 

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 10:38 AM

 

I bet if the likes of John52 had posted such a view, he would've been jumped on and torn into for being a "loony La La land leftie" who was "disrespecting" those who had died during the conflict... :-S

 

 

a) The difference is with the loony lefties if we were attacked ;-) ..........they wouldn't fight back 8-) ......

 

Corbyn & Co are a right bunch of surrender Monkeys (lol) .......

 

b) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/22/exclusive-britain-risk-terror-attack-jeremy-corbyn-becomes-prime/

 

 

a) Really?..and you know that of all "lefties" how?

(..."lefties", socialists etc are often derided by some for being "Commies"...and I seem recall that the likes of the communists in Russia and China etc..are pretty good at sticking up for themselves..?)

 

and from your Torygraph link.

b) "Exclusive: Britain at risk of terror attack if Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister, Tory chairman warns" shocker! *-)

 

I think it would also be fair to add those who went to fight in the Spanish civil war. Mostly, young idealistic, and doubtless naïve, but lacking courage?

 

 

Yep, I wholeheartedly agree Brian .

(...after I'd posted,I did think of editing to add references to such anti-fascist fighters but considering who I was "debating" with, it didn't really seem worth the effort :-S )

[Guest pelmetman]

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 5:14 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-09 2:39 PM

 

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 12:49 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 12:17 PM

 

pepe63 - 2017-05-09 10:38 AM

 

I bet if the likes of John52 had posted such a view, he would've been jumped on and torn into for being a "loony La La land leftie" who was "disrespecting" those who had died during the conflict... :-S

 

 

a) The difference is with the loony lefties if we were attacked ;-) ..........they wouldn't fight back 8-) ......

 

Corbyn & Co are a right bunch of surrender Monkeys (lol) .......

 

b) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/22/exclusive-britain-risk-terror-attack-jeremy-corbyn-becomes-prime/

 

 

a) Really?..and you know that of all "lefties" how?

(..."lefties", socialists etc are often derided by some for being "Commies"...and I seem recall that the likes of the communists in Russia and China etc..are pretty good at sticking up for themselves..?)

 

and from your Torygraph link.

b) "Exclusive: Britain at risk of terror attack if Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister, Tory chairman warns" shocker! *-)

 

I think it would also be fair to add those who went to fight in the Spanish civil war. Mostly, young idealistic, and doubtless naïve, but lacking courage?

 

 

Yep, I wholeheartedly agree Brian .

(...after I'd posted,I did think of editing to add references to such anti-fascist fighters but considering who I was "debating" with, it didn't really seem worth the effort :-S )

 

So you'll still vote for Corbyn then? ;-) ........

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-09 2:39 PM

 

In reality, very few have the luxury of choice in such matters: most are merely the victims of circumstance, whether civilian or military. Is someone who died quaking with fear less a hero than someone whose life ended in an unforeseen instant? They were all just in the wrong place, at the wrong time. So long as human beings exist, that time and that place will still be somewhere just around the corner. Never forget that, and treat the bellicose patriot with great caution.

 

So do you think Corbyn would defend the UK if we were attacked? ;-) ........

 

As I fear he is severely lacking in the bellicose department *-) .......

 

BTW if I recall correctly the Nationalists won >:-) .......

 

 

[malc d]

RogerC - 2017-05-09 4:42 PM

malc d - 2017-05-09 4:16 PM

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-09 2:39 PMWhy do people assume right, and courage, only reside on their side, or in their image?

I always assume it's because they don't keep themselves very well informed. :-|

I would disagree with that.  Apart from countries where conscription is still in place and the government repressive I would suggest most military people are very well informed.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------malc dI was actually responding to Daves' assertion that " Lefties " ( as he calls anyone who disagrees with him ) - are weak.I've no doubt that the top brass in the military are very well informed - and hopefully they keep the troops informed too - but in the end they have to do what the elected politicians tell them to do - I doubt if any of them are asked for their opinions before going in to battle. :-(

[Guest pelmetman]

malc d - 2017-05-09 4:16 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-09 2:39 PM

 

 

Why do people assume right, and courage, only reside on their side, or in their image?

 

 

 

 

I always assume it's because they don't keep themselves very well informed.

 

 

:-|

 

For clarification I was referring to Corbyn & Co ;-) ........

 

 

[Violet1956]

Well this has been an interesting debate. My only intent on starting this thread was that we, the baby boomers if you like, pause and remember the very difficult times many of our parents went through. The abiding sentiment is perhaps that we have never had it so good. Not that we should abandon hope to make things better, just simply that we should acknowledge that many of our forbears paid a very high price for our freedoms.

 

Veronica

[RogerC]

Violet1956 - 2017-05-09 6:00 PMWell this has been an interesting debate. My only intent on starting this thread was that we, the baby boomers if you like, pause and remember the very difficult times many of our parents went through. The abiding sentiment is perhaps that we have never had it so good. Not that we should abandon hope to make things better, just simply that we should acknowledge that many of our forbears paid a very high price for our freedoms. Veronica

Exactly Veronica....I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments which is why I felt it necessary to apologise for letting posts from 'other quarters' which detract from those sincere and respectful sentiments. 

I'm sorry mine didn't help matters but one has to stand up for those who paid the ultimate price in the face of certain other less respectful opinions. 

[malc d]

Violet1956 - 2017-05-09 6:00 PM

 

Well this has been an interesting debate.

My only intent on starting this thread was that we, the baby boomers if you like, pause and remember the very difficult times many of our parents went through.

 

Veronica

 

 

As I understand the term, baby boomers are ( approximately) people born between 1946 and 1964 - so they are the youngsters around here.

 

My abiding memory of VE day was sitting down with my dad to listen to, what I thought, would be the last NEWS broadcast on the radio.

 

Having listened nearly every night for so long to hear how the war was going, I assumed that when the war finished there wouldn't be any more news to broadcast - so I was expecting them to say goodbye.

 

;-)

[Brian Kirby]

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 5:45 PM.............................BTW if I recall correctly the Nationalists won >:-) .......

Correct, but as to relevance? However, what a great country they then made of Spain. Did you ever go when it was under Franco? Being stopped in the early hours by a reeling drunk, automatic toting, member of the Guardia Civil was, shall we say, an "interesting" experience! Bit like the CRS under De Gaulle.

[John52]

RogerC - 2017-05-09 8:11 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-05-09 6:00 PMWell this has been an interesting debate. My only intent on starting this thread was that we, the baby boomers if you like, pause and remember the very difficult times many of our parents went through. The abiding sentiment is perhaps that we have never had it so good. Not that we should abandon hope to make things better, just simply that we should acknowledge that many of our forbears paid a very high price for our freedoms. Veronica

Exactly Veronica....I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments which is why I felt it necessary to apologise for letting posts from 'other quarters' which detract from those sincere and respectful sentiments. 

I'm sorry mine didn't help matters but one has to stand up for those who paid the ultimate price in the face of certain other less respectful opinions. 

Just to be clear I included those who served in the Arctic Convoys and Bomber Command who Churchill ignored in his VE Day Speech. And those concentration camp victims who returned to their homes to find someone else living in them who told them to go back where they came from. Which you have tried to make out was an attack on those who 'paid the ultimate price'

[John52]

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 5:45 PM

 

So do you think Corbyn would defend the UK if we were attacked? ;-) ........

 

Depends who you mean by UK.

He won't defend the likes of Sir Philip Green

Thats why he has got the Establishment worried.

[John52]

Violet1956 - 2017-05-09 6:00 PM

 

Well this has been an interesting debate. My only intent on starting this thread was that we, the baby boomers if you like, pause and remember the very difficult times many of our parents went through. The abiding sentiment is perhaps that we have never had it so good. Not that we should abandon hope to make things better, just simply that we should acknowledge that many of our forbears paid a very high price for our freedoms.

 

Veronica

 

Absolutely.

And I respect why some want to present the wars as a great success to 'justify' the price they paid.

But then that encourages them to get involved in more wars.

So I think we should be honest about what really happened, and what it achieved.

So we might learn from the mistakes and stop them keep happening all over again.

Then the sacrifice they made might be worthwhile.

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-09 10:42 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 5:45 PM.............................BTW if I recall correctly the Nationalists won >:-) .......

Correct, but as to relevance? However, what a great country they then made of Spain. Did you ever go when it was under Franco? Being stopped in the early hours by a reeling drunk, automatic toting, member of the Guardia Civil was, shall we say, an "interesting" experience! Bit like the CRS under De Gaulle.

 

Yes..... we went to Majorca in the late 60's, well before we joined the Common market B-) ......

 

From what I've read Franco appears to have been pretty benign as dictators go ;-) ........Which is probably born out by the fact he died in charge >:-) ........

 

BTW the only time I was stopped by someone with a machine gun, was in Israel, by a very attractive young lady who made the experience very memorable :D .......

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2017-05-10 7:30 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 5:45 PM

 

So do you think Corbyn would defend the UK if we were attacked? ;-) ........

 

Depends who you mean by UK.

He won't defend the likes of Sir Philip Green

Thats why he has got the Establishment worried.

 

I was referring to his refusal to push the button if we were nuked, or kill those who would kill us *-) ........

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/23/jeremy-corbyn-might-not-authorise-strike-against-isil-leader/

 

"Labour's credibility on defence is in tatters after Jeremy Corbyn ruled out **ever** using Britain’s nuclear deterrent, refused to back a drone strike to kill Isil’s leader and said he would suspend air strikes on Syria."

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2017-05-10 8:12 AM

 

John52 - 2017-05-10 7:30 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 5:45 PM

 

So do you think Corbyn would defend the UK if we were attacked? ;-) ........

 

Depends who you mean by UK.

He won't defend the likes of Sir Philip Green

Thats why he has got the Establishment worried.

 

I was referring to his refusal to push the button if we were nuked, or kill those who would kill us *-) ........

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/23/jeremy-corbyn-might-not-authorise-strike-against-isil-leader/

 

"Labour's credibility on defence is in tatters after Jeremy Corbyn ruled out **ever** using Britain’s nuclear deterrent, refused to back a drone strike to kill Isil’s leader and said he would suspend air strikes on Syria."

 

 

Listen to what he says, not the Torygraph quote of it. or the defence ''Experts' whose salary depends on Britain's military spending. *-)

What he said was no first use of nuclear weapons

How do other countries like Germany manage without them?

Who benefits most from them?

If you are royalty or the Duke of Westminster inheriting £10bn tax free, you might want nuclear weapons to defend it.

Wheras if you have nothing you might not want the Government closing homeless shelters to pay for nuclear weapons.

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2017-05-10 8:30 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-05-10 8:12 AM

 

John52 - 2017-05-10 7:30 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 5:45 PM

 

So do you think Corbyn would defend the UK if we were attacked? ;-) ........

 

Depends who you mean by UK.

He won't defend the likes of Sir Philip Green

Thats why he has got the Establishment worried.

 

I was referring to his refusal to push the button if we were nuked, or kill those who would kill us *-) ........

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/23/jeremy-corbyn-might-not-authorise-strike-against-isil-leader/

 

"Labour's credibility on defence is in tatters after Jeremy Corbyn ruled out **ever** using Britain’s nuclear deterrent, refused to back a drone strike to kill Isil’s leader and said he would suspend air strikes on Syria."

 

 

Listen to what he says, not the Torygraph quote of it. or the defence ''Experts' whose salary depends on Britain's military spending. *-)

What he said was no first use of nuclear weapons

How do other countries like Germany manage without them?

Who benefits most from them?

If you are royalty or the Duke of Westminster inheriting £10bn tax free, you might want nuclear weapons to defend it.

Wheras if you have nothing you might not want the Government closing homeless shelters to pay for nuclear weapons.

 

......and again from the Lefty mouthpiece ;-) ......

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/30/corbyn-i-would-never-use-nuclear-weapons-if-i-was-pm

 

Germany uses America and us to defend them........Saving themselves a fortune *-) ......

 

 

[RogerC]

John52 - 2017-05-10 8:30 AM

pelmetman - 2017-05-10 8:12 AM

John52 - 2017-05-10 7:30 AM

pelmetman - 2017-05-09 5:45 PMSo do you think Corbyn would defend the UK if we were attacked? ;-) ........

Depends who you mean by UK.He won't defend the likes of Sir Philip GreenThats why he has got the Establishment worried.

I was referring to his refusal to push the button if we were nuked, or kill those who would kill us *-) ........http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/23/jeremy-corbyn-might-not-authorise-strike-against-isil-leader/"Labour's credibility on defence is in tatters after Jeremy Corbyn ruled out **ever** using Britain’s nuclear deterrent, refused to back a drone strike to kill Isil’s leader and said he would suspend air strikes on Syria."

Listen to what he says, not the Torygraph quote of it. or the defence ''Experts' whose salary depends on Britain's military spending. *-) What he said was no first use of nuclear weapons How do other countries like Germany manage without them?Who benefits most from them?If you are royalty or the Duke of Westminster inheriting £10bn tax free, you might want nuclear weapons to defend it.Wheras if you have nothing you might not want the Government closing homeless shelters to pay for nuclear weapons.

You really are one pathetically obsessive individual.  IS THERE ANY THREAD where you find it possible to respond to the topic without throwing in some pathetically predictable irrelevant rubbish in order to include those you clearly have an obsession with.......Royalty, Military, Defence, BoT spending to name just a few?

You even managed to hijack Veronica's innocent topic to remember those on VE Day................shame on you.