Theresa May calls for tougher penalties

[John52]

nowtelse2do - 2017-06-05 4:03 PM

So you would have liked (Jeremy Corbyn) to have had the IRA strutting around Downing St. and Westminster then.

 

Dave

 

They were if you remember - Martin Mc Guiness & Gerry Adams were in 10 Downing Street every other day.

Thatcher said 'we don't negotiate with terrorists' but they always do in the end.

Or as Jeremy Corbyn says the solution to the IRA crisis was a political one, not a military one.

[nowtelse2do]

John52 - 2017-06-06 8:38 AM

 

nowtelse2do - 2017-06-05 4:03 PM

So you would have liked (Jeremy Corbyn) to have had the IRA strutting around Downing St. and Westminster then.

 

Dave

 

They were if you remember - Martin Mc Guiness & Gerry Adams were in 10 Downing Street every other day.

Thatcher said 'we don't negotiate with terrorists' but they always do in the end.

Or as Jeremy Corbyn says the solution to the IRA crisis was a political one, not a military one.

 

Taken out of context as usual.

 

Dave

[John52]

nowtelse2do - 2017-06-06 10:36 AM

 

John52 - 2017-06-06 8:38 AM

 

nowtelse2do - 2017-06-05 4:03 PM

So you would have liked (Jeremy Corbyn) to have had the IRA strutting around Downing St. and Westminster then.

 

Dave

 

They were if you remember - Martin Mc Guiness & Gerry Adams were in 10 Downing Street every other day.

Thatcher said 'we don't negotiate with terrorists' but they always do in the end.

Or as Jeremy Corbyn says the solution to the IRA crisis was a political one, not a military one.

 

Taken out of context as usual.

 

Dave

 

Don't know what you mean.

Sinn Fein MPs have been democratically elected - unlike the Head of State and House of Lords .

On that basis why shouldn't they be in Westminster?

[Barryd999]

antony1969 - 2017-06-05 5:47 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-06-05 5:34 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-06-05 2:22 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-06-05 1:32 PM

 

John52 - 2017-06-05 1:10 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-06-05 11:53 AM

 

John52 - 2017-06-05 11:17 AM

 

 

My feling is that nobody really knows anything about God. .So I haven't bothered studying religion beyond what was forced into me at School.

So thanks for the replies, I feel I am beginning to learn something.

Its just a shame that anyone who suggests trying to understand these lunatics, or even point out the simple fact it wasn't just women and children they attacked, is likely to be labelled a sympathiser.

 

Gaining an understanding of these lunatics is not a simple matter. I found this wiki article which shows just how complicated it is.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Motivations_of_Islamic_terrorism

 

Though impossible to summarise I hazard a guess that our home grown terrorists are often likely to be as described thus in the article-

 

 

 

"Two studies of the background of Muslim terrorists in Europe—one of the UK and one of France—found little connection between religious piety and terrorism. According to a "restricted" report of hundreds of case studies by the UK domestic counter-intelligence agency MI5,

 

[f]ar from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.[31]?

 

A 2015 "general portrait" by Olivier Roy (see above) of "the conditions and circumstances" under which people living in France become "Islamic radicals" (terrorists or would-be terrorists) found radicalisation was not an "uprising of a Muslim community that is victim to poverty and racism: only young people join, including converts".[32] Or as another observer described it:

 

the large majority of French jihadists are second-generation Muslims who, unlike their parents, speak French, grew up with little to no contact with mosques or Muslim organizations, and before their conversions drank, took drugs, and had girlfriends. They are estranged from their parents and don’t know where to fit in. Or they are recent converts, largely from rural areas and many from divorced families. Why is that, Roy asks? If Islam or social conditions are essentially to blame for breeding terrorism, why do such structural problems affect only this very narrowly defined group? Why does it not attract first- or third-generation French Muslims, or those whose Islamic culture is the deepest? And why does its appeal extend to children of the successful middle class? His answer: jihadism is a nihilistic generational revolt, not a religiously inspired utopianism."

 

Veronica

Thanks Veronica

Bit complicated for the Daily Mail then. They'll just have to stick to calling them cowards and thinking they can frighten them off.

Pity it wasn't Corbyn in power instead of Blair when the Americans wanted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe our bombing innocent civilians there makes them feel justified in doing the same thing here. :-(

 

So Isis evolved because of disaffected 2nd generation Muslims in France and the UK? *-) .........

 

Jeeezus..... the happy clappy people are really desperate to believe anything other than it being to do with Islam :-| .......

 

 

 

 

You might have thought shouting "This is for Allah" and "This is for my family , this is for Islam" while driving foot long knives into innocent folk would give em a clue as to whats behind it ... Whats so difficult to understand ... Passages from the Quran recited by ISIS on many occasions tell you we are the dirty kuffar and they are the superior ones here to kill or convert ... Don't over think it ... Problem is it will not end and I can see before too long revenge attacks on home soil will start and then the wet left really will have a problem ... 3 more arrested at the weekend in my town in a big anti-terror sting and remember we gave the world the lovely 7/7 bomber Jermaine Lindsay

 

I hope your wrong about that, so far I have seen quite the opposite. I have been quite impressed by the reaction of the public across all faiths although Im not sure I follow why the "Wet left" really will have a problem if there are revenge attacks. I sincerely hope that does not happen as it plays directly into the hands of these people. They want division, they want us to hate them and to cause hate towards Muslims. The last thing they want is Muslims becoming more moderate in this country. They probably hate the moderate Muslims as much as they hate the white British Christians. We are better than that though aren't we?

 

The government scored an own goal I reckon in depleting the Police force by 19000 over the last few years. People complained in the past that the Muslim communities were not speaking out, well apparently they were and both the Manchester bomber and at least one of the three the other night were reported to the Police on several occasions but still they managed to carry out these attacks.

 

All we can do across all faiths is to try and become as united as possible in outing these people. Sadly it wont go away but we can decrease their chances by giving them nowhere to hide and making sure we have the resources to take them off the streets.

 

Why on earth do they want us to hate them and cause hate towards Muslims ??? Struggling to understand that ... If their aim is converting the kuffar then us hating them aint guna help their cause is it ... If all of a sudden we are going to become united across all faiths then that is something that 70 or 60 years of multiculturalism has failed to do up to press so I suppose every cloud has a silver lining and all that if you believe in fairy tales

 

Of course they want to cause hate and division. They hate moderate Muslims as much as they hate the rest of us. They know full well that nobody here in their right mind is going to convert to ISLAM because of their terror campaign but what they do want is to divide our nation to boost their ranks for one thing. Any knee jerk reactions to this such as internment, retaliation, burning Mosques etc is likely to do exactly that and I Am sure they would be delighted at that happening. So far though it seems to be having the exact opposite effect. So yeah, every cloud and all that.

 

I honestly think the Good and moderate Muslims of this country will be the ones to out these evil people. Its happening already. Manchester bomber reported 5 times by the Muslim Community, one of the London Bridge attackers reported at least twice. How they managed to then still go on and carry out an attack is somewhat worrying but perhaps investing in more resources and boots on the ground rather than this government sacking nearly twenty thousand coppers hasnt helped.

[antony1969]

Barryd999 - 2017-06-06 12:03 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-06-05 5:47 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-06-05 5:34 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-06-05 2:22 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-06-05 1:32 PM

 

John52 - 2017-06-05 1:10 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-06-05 11:53 AM

 

John52 - 2017-06-05 11:17 AM

 

 

My feling is that nobody really knows anything about God. .So I haven't bothered studying religion beyond what was forced into me at School.

So thanks for the replies, I feel I am beginning to learn something.

Its just a shame that anyone who suggests trying to understand these lunatics, or even point out the simple fact it wasn't just women and children they attacked, is likely to be labelled a sympathiser.

 

Gaining an understanding of these lunatics is not a simple matter. I found this wiki article which shows just how complicated it is.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Motivations_of_Islamic_terrorism

 

Though impossible to summarise I hazard a guess that our home grown terrorists are often likely to be as described thus in the article-

 

 

 

"Two studies of the background of Muslim terrorists in Europe—one of the UK and one of France—found little connection between religious piety and terrorism. According to a "restricted" report of hundreds of case studies by the UK domestic counter-intelligence agency MI5,

 

[f]ar from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.[31]?

 

A 2015 "general portrait" by Olivier Roy (see above) of "the conditions and circumstances" under which people living in France become "Islamic radicals" (terrorists or would-be terrorists) found radicalisation was not an "uprising of a Muslim community that is victim to poverty and racism: only young people join, including converts".[32] Or as another observer described it:

 

the large majority of French jihadists are second-generation Muslims who, unlike their parents, speak French, grew up with little to no contact with mosques or Muslim organizations, and before their conversions drank, took drugs, and had girlfriends. They are estranged from their parents and don’t know where to fit in. Or they are recent converts, largely from rural areas and many from divorced families. Why is that, Roy asks? If Islam or social conditions are essentially to blame for breeding terrorism, why do such structural problems affect only this very narrowly defined group? Why does it not attract first- or third-generation French Muslims, or those whose Islamic culture is the deepest? And why does its appeal extend to children of the successful middle class? His answer: jihadism is a nihilistic generational revolt, not a religiously inspired utopianism."

 

Veronica

Thanks Veronica

Bit complicated for the Daily Mail then. They'll just have to stick to calling them cowards and thinking they can frighten them off.

Pity it wasn't Corbyn in power instead of Blair when the Americans wanted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe our bombing innocent civilians there makes them feel justified in doing the same thing here. :-(

 

So Isis evolved because of disaffected 2nd generation Muslims in France and the UK? *-) .........

 

Jeeezus..... the happy clappy people are really desperate to believe anything other than it being to do with Islam :-| .......

 

 

 

 

You might have thought shouting "This is for Allah" and "This is for my family , this is for Islam" while driving foot long knives into innocent folk would give em a clue as to whats behind it ... Whats so difficult to understand ... Passages from the Quran recited by ISIS on many occasions tell you we are the dirty kuffar and they are the superior ones here to kill or convert ... Don't over think it ... Problem is it will not end and I can see before too long revenge attacks on home soil will start and then the wet left really will have a problem ... 3 more arrested at the weekend in my town in a big anti-terror sting and remember we gave the world the lovely 7/7 bomber Jermaine Lindsay

 

I hope your wrong about that, so far I have seen quite the opposite. I have been quite impressed by the reaction of the public across all faiths although Im not sure I follow why the "Wet left" really will have a problem if there are revenge attacks. I sincerely hope that does not happen as it plays directly into the hands of these people. They want division, they want us to hate them and to cause hate towards Muslims. The last thing they want is Muslims becoming more moderate in this country. They probably hate the moderate Muslims as much as they hate the white British Christians. We are better than that though aren't we?

 

The government scored an own goal I reckon in depleting the Police force by 19000 over the last few years. People complained in the past that the Muslim communities were not speaking out, well apparently they were and both the Manchester bomber and at least one of the three the other night were reported to the Police on several occasions but still they managed to carry out these attacks.

 

All we can do across all faiths is to try and become as united as possible in outing these people. Sadly it wont go away but we can decrease their chances by giving them nowhere to hide and making sure we have the resources to take them off the streets.

 

Why on earth do they want us to hate them and cause hate towards Muslims ??? Struggling to understand that ... If their aim is converting the kuffar then us hating them aint guna help their cause is it ... If all of a sudden we are going to become united across all faiths then that is something that 70 or 60 years of multiculturalism has failed to do up to press so I suppose every cloud has a silver lining and all that if you believe in fairy tales

 

Of course they want to cause hate and division. They hate moderate Muslims as much as they hate the rest of us. They know full well that nobody here in their right mind is going to convert to ISLAM because of their terror campaign but what they do want is to divide our nation to boost their ranks for one thing. Any knee jerk reactions to this such as internment, retaliation, burning Mosques etc is likely to do exactly that and I Am sure they would be delighted at that happening. So far though it seems to be having the exact opposite effect. So yeah, every cloud and all that.

 

I honestly think the Good and moderate Muslims of this country will be the ones to out these evil people. Its happening already. Manchester bomber reported 5 times by the Muslim Community, one of the London Bridge attackers reported at least twice. How they managed to then still go on and carry out an attack is somewhat worrying but perhaps investing in more resources and boots on the ground rather than this government sacking nearly twenty thousand coppers hasnt helped.

 

What is a "Good and moderate muslim" ??? ... Is it someone who does not believe in murdering innocent folk because they don't follow Islam but as a "moderate muslim" they do follow the rest of what the good book preaches as in death to gays , death to those who leave the religion and son and so on ...

...

...

... The religion of peace at its best with petrified Muslims who've dared to leave the faith ... "Moderate Muslims" , what a joke

[RogerC]

Barryd999 - 2017-06-06 12:03 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-05 5:47 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-05 5:34 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-05 2:22 PM

pelmetman - 2017-06-05 1:32 PM

John52 - 2017-06-05 1:10 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-05 11:53 AM

John52 - 2017-06-05 11:17 AMMy feling is that nobody really knows anything about God. .So I haven't bothered studying religion beyond what was forced into me at School. So thanks for the replies, I feel I am beginning to learn something.Its just a shame that anyone who suggests trying to understand these lunatics, or even point out the simple fact it wasn't just women and children they attacked, is likely to be labelled a sympathiser.

Gaining an understanding of these lunatics is not a simple matter. I found this wiki article which shows just how complicated it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Motivations_of_Islamic_terrorismThough impossible to summarise I hazard a guess that our home grown terrorists are often likely to be as described thus in the article-"Two studies of the background of Muslim terrorists in Europe—one of the UK and one of France—found little connection between religious piety and terrorism. According to a "restricted" report of hundreds of case studies by the UK domestic counter-intelligence agency MI5,[f]ar from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.[31]?A 2015 "general portrait" by Olivier Roy (see above) of "the conditions and circumstances" under which people living in France become "Islamic radicals" (terrorists or would-be terrorists) found radicalisation was not an "uprising of a Muslim community that is victim to poverty and racism: only young people join, including converts".[32] Or as another observer described it:the large majority of French jihadists are second-generation Muslims who, unlike their parents, speak French, grew up with little to no contact with mosques or Muslim organizations, and before their conversions drank, took drugs, and had girlfriends. They are estranged from their parents and don’t know where to fit in. Or they are recent converts, largely from rural areas and many from divorced families. Why is that, Roy asks? If Islam or social conditions are essentially to blame for breeding terrorism, why do such structural problems affect only this very narrowly defined group? Why does it not attract first- or third-generation French Muslims, or those whose Islamic culture is the deepest? And why does its appeal extend to children of the successful middle class? His answer: jihadism is a nihilistic generational revolt, not a religiously inspired utopianism."Veronica

Thanks Veronica Bit complicated for the Daily Mail then. They'll just have to stick to calling them cowards and thinking they can frighten them off. Pity it wasn't Corbyn in power instead of Blair when the Americans wanted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe our bombing innocent civilians there makes them feel justified in doing the same thing here. :-(

So Isis evolved because of disaffected 2nd generation Muslims in France and the UK? *-) .........Jeeezus..... the happy clappy people are really desperate to believe anything other than it being to do with Islam :-| .......

You might have thought shouting "This is for Allah" and "This is for my family , this is for Islam" while driving foot long knives into innocent folk would give em a clue as to whats behind it ... Whats so difficult to understand ... Passages from the Quran recited by ISIS on many occasions tell you we are the dirty kuffar and they are the superior ones here to kill or convert ... Don't over think it ... Problem is it will not end and I can see before too long revenge attacks on home soil will start and then the wet left really will have a problem ... 3 more arrested at the weekend in my town in a big anti-terror sting and remember we gave the world the lovely 7/7 bomber Jermaine Lindsay

I hope your wrong about that, so far I have seen quite the opposite. I have been quite impressed by the reaction of the public across all faiths although Im not sure I follow why the "Wet left" really will have a problem if there are revenge attacks. I sincerely hope that does not happen as it plays directly into the hands of these people. They want division, they want us to hate them and to cause hate towards Muslims. The last thing they want is Muslims becoming more moderate in this country. They probably hate the moderate Muslims as much as they hate the white British Christians. We are better than that though aren't we?The government scored an own goal I reckon in depleting the Police force by 19000 over the last few years. People complained in the past that the Muslim communities were not speaking out, well apparently they were and both the Manchester bomber and at least one of the three the other night were reported to the Police on several occasions but still they managed to carry out these attacks.All we can do across all faiths is to try and become as united as possible in outing these people. Sadly it wont go away but we can decrease their chances by giving them nowhere to hide and making sure we have the resources to take them off the streets.

Why on earth do they want us to hate them and cause hate towards Muslims ??? Struggling to understand that ... If their aim is converting the kuffar then us hating them aint guna help their cause is it ... If all of a sudden we are going to become united across all faiths then that is something that 70 or 60 years of multiculturalism has failed to do up to press so I suppose every cloud has a silver lining and all that if you believe in fairy tales

Of course they want to cause hate and division. They hate moderate Muslims as much as they hate the rest of us. They know full well that nobody here in their right mind is going to convert to ISLAM because of their terror campaign but what they do want is to divide our nation to boost their ranks for one thing. Any knee jerk reactions to this such as internment, retaliation, burning Mosques etc is likely to do exactly that and I Am sure they would be delighted at that happening. So far though it seems to be having the exact opposite effect. So yeah, every cloud and all that.I honestly think the Good and moderate Muslims of this country will be the ones to out these evil people. Its happening already. Manchester bomber reported 5 times by the Muslim Community, one of the London Bridge attackers reported at least twice. How they managed to then still go on and carry out an attack is somewhat worrying but perhaps investing in more resources and boots on the ground rather than this government sacking nearly twenty thousand coppers hasnt helped.

Barry you are mixing your hate comments so which is it because you posted both of these comments:

This....... "they want us to hate them and to cause hate towards Muslims."

or this:

"Of course they want to cause hate and division. They hate moderate Muslims as much as they hate the rest of us."

The bottom line is, as I have already said and is easy to confirm with a little research, for those 'extremists' it is nothing to do with hatred it is religious indoctrination of the most extreme kind.  They do what they do because some mad Mullah has convinced them that it is their religious duty to either convert or kill 'all infidels' which includes so called moderate Muslims and even those from a different sect.

Clearly this is relevant to those who commit these acts willingly and not those acting under duress.

[antony1969]

RogerC - 2017-06-06 1:11 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-06 12:03 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-05 5:47 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-05 5:34 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-05 2:22 PM

pelmetman - 2017-06-05 1:32 PM

John52 - 2017-06-05 1:10 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-05 11:53 AM

John52 - 2017-06-05 11:17 AMMy feling is that nobody really knows anything about God. .So I haven't bothered studying religion beyond what was forced into me at School. So thanks for the replies, I feel I am beginning to learn something.Its just a shame that anyone who suggests trying to understand these lunatics, or even point out the simple fact it wasn't just women and children they attacked, is likely to be labelled a sympathiser.

Gaining an understanding of these lunatics is not a simple matter. I found this wiki article which shows just how complicated it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Motivations_of_Islamic_terrorismThough impossible to summarise I hazard a guess that our home grown terrorists are often likely to be as described thus in the article-"Two studies of the background of Muslim terrorists in Europe—one of the UK and one of France—found little connection between religious piety and terrorism. According to a "restricted" report of hundreds of case studies by the UK domestic counter-intelligence agency MI5,[f]ar from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.[31]?A 2015 "general portrait" by Olivier Roy (see above) of "the conditions and circumstances" under which people living in France become "Islamic radicals" (terrorists or would-be terrorists) found radicalisation was not an "uprising of a Muslim community that is victim to poverty and racism: only young people join, including converts".[32] Or as another observer described it:the large majority of French jihadists are second-generation Muslims who, unlike their parents, speak French, grew up with little to no contact with mosques or Muslim organizations, and before their conversions drank, took drugs, and had girlfriends. They are estranged from their parents and don’t know where to fit in. Or they are recent converts, largely from rural areas and many from divorced families. Why is that, Roy asks? If Islam or social conditions are essentially to blame for breeding terrorism, why do such structural problems affect only this very narrowly defined group? Why does it not attract first- or third-generation French Muslims, or those whose Islamic culture is the deepest? And why does its appeal extend to children of the successful middle class? His answer: jihadism is a nihilistic generational revolt, not a religiously inspired utopianism."Veronica

Thanks Veronica Bit complicated for the Daily Mail then. They'll just have to stick to calling them cowards and thinking they can frighten them off. Pity it wasn't Corbyn in power instead of Blair when the Americans wanted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe our bombing innocent civilians there makes them feel justified in doing the same thing here. :-(

So Isis evolved because of disaffected 2nd generation Muslims in France and the UK? *-) .........Jeeezus..... the happy clappy people are really desperate to believe anything other than it being to do with Islam :-| .......

You might have thought shouting "This is for Allah" and "This is for my family , this is for Islam" while driving foot long knives into innocent folk would give em a clue as to whats behind it ... Whats so difficult to understand ... Passages from the Quran recited by ISIS on many occasions tell you we are the dirty kuffar and they are the superior ones here to kill or convert ... Don't over think it ... Problem is it will not end and I can see before too long revenge attacks on home soil will start and then the wet left really will have a problem ... 3 more arrested at the weekend in my town in a big anti-terror sting and remember we gave the world the lovely 7/7 bomber Jermaine Lindsay

I hope your wrong about that, so far I have seen quite the opposite. I have been quite impressed by the reaction of the public across all faiths although Im not sure I follow why the "Wet left" really will have a problem if there are revenge attacks. I sincerely hope that does not happen as it plays directly into the hands of these people. They want division, they want us to hate them and to cause hate towards Muslims. The last thing they want is Muslims becoming more moderate in this country. They probably hate the moderate Muslims as much as they hate the white British Christians. We are better than that though aren't we?The government scored an own goal I reckon in depleting the Police force by 19000 over the last few years. People complained in the past that the Muslim communities were not speaking out, well apparently they were and both the Manchester bomber and at least one of the three the other night were reported to the Police on several occasions but still they managed to carry out these attacks.All we can do across all faiths is to try and become as united as possible in outing these people. Sadly it wont go away but we can decrease their chances by giving them nowhere to hide and making sure we have the resources to take them off the streets.

Why on earth do they want us to hate them and cause hate towards Muslims ??? Struggling to understand that ... If their aim is converting the kuffar then us hating them aint guna help their cause is it ... If all of a sudden we are going to become united across all faiths then that is something that 70 or 60 years of multiculturalism has failed to do up to press so I suppose every cloud has a silver lining and all that if you believe in fairy tales

Of course they want to cause hate and division. They hate moderate Muslims as much as they hate the rest of us. They know full well that nobody here in their right mind is going to convert to ISLAM because of their terror campaign but what they do want is to divide our nation to boost their ranks for one thing. Any knee jerk reactions to this such as internment, retaliation, burning Mosques etc is likely to do exactly that and I Am sure they would be delighted at that happening. So far though it seems to be having the exact opposite effect. So yeah, every cloud and all that.I honestly think the Good and moderate Muslims of this country will be the ones to out these evil people. Its happening already. Manchester bomber reported 5 times by the Muslim Community, one of the London Bridge attackers reported at least twice. How they managed to then still go on and carry out an attack is somewhat worrying but perhaps investing in more resources and boots on the ground rather than this government sacking nearly twenty thousand coppers hasnt helped.

Barry you are mixing your hate comments so which is it because you posted both of these comments:

This....... "they want us to hate them and to cause hate towards Muslims."

or this:

"Of course they want to cause hate and division. They hate moderate Muslims as much as they hate the rest of us."

The bottom line is, as I have already said and is easy to confirm with a little research, for those 'extremists' it is nothing to do with hatred it is religious indoctrination of the most extreme kind.  They do what they do because some mad Mullah has convinced them that it is their religious duty to either convert or kill 'all infidels' which includes so called moderate Muslims and even those from a different sect.

Clearly this is relevant to those who commit these acts willingly and not those acting under duress.

Barry will blame anything and everything other than having to face an awkward truth ... It seems by his last post he's now blaming Police staffing levels rather than accepting they kill because we don't believe in Islam but if it sits easier to blame the Police/Government then hey ho ... Barry has previously on more than one occasion suggested the 3000 figure on the watchlist is way too high , if it is why do we need an extra 20000 or 10000 coppers ?

[Barryd999]

RogerC - 2017-06-06 1:11 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-06 12:03 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-05 5:47 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-05 5:34 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-05 2:22 PM

pelmetman - 2017-06-05 1:32 PM

John52 - 2017-06-05 1:10 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-05 11:53 AM

John52 - 2017-06-05 11:17 AMMy feling is that nobody really knows anything about God. .So I haven't bothered studying religion beyond what was forced into me at School. So thanks for the replies, I feel I am beginning to learn something.Its just a shame that anyone who suggests trying to understand these lunatics, or even point out the simple fact it wasn't just women and children they attacked, is likely to be labelled a sympathiser.

Gaining an understanding of these lunatics is not a simple matter. I found this wiki article which shows just how complicated it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Motivations_of_Islamic_terrorismThough impossible to summarise I hazard a guess that our home grown terrorists are often likely to be as described thus in the article-"Two studies of the background of Muslim terrorists in Europe—one of the UK and one of France—found little connection between religious piety and terrorism. According to a "restricted" report of hundreds of case studies by the UK domestic counter-intelligence agency MI5,[f]ar from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.[31]?A 2015 "general portrait" by Olivier Roy (see above) of "the conditions and circumstances" under which people living in France become "Islamic radicals" (terrorists or would-be terrorists) found radicalisation was not an "uprising of a Muslim community that is victim to poverty and racism: only young people join, including converts".[32] Or as another observer described it:the large majority of French jihadists are second-generation Muslims who, unlike their parents, speak French, grew up with little to no contact with mosques or Muslim organizations, and before their conversions drank, took drugs, and had girlfriends. They are estranged from their parents and don’t know where to fit in. Or they are recent converts, largely from rural areas and many from divorced families. Why is that, Roy asks? If Islam or social conditions are essentially to blame for breeding terrorism, why do such structural problems affect only this very narrowly defined group? Why does it not attract first- or third-generation French Muslims, or those whose Islamic culture is the deepest? And why does its appeal extend to children of the successful middle class? His answer: jihadism is a nihilistic generational revolt, not a religiously inspired utopianism."Veronica

Thanks Veronica Bit complicated for the Daily Mail then. They'll just have to stick to calling them cowards and thinking they can frighten them off. Pity it wasn't Corbyn in power instead of Blair when the Americans wanted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe our bombing innocent civilians there makes them feel justified in doing the same thing here. :-(

So Isis evolved because of disaffected 2nd generation Muslims in France and the UK? *-) .........Jeeezus..... the happy clappy people are really desperate to believe anything other than it being to do with Islam :-| .......

You might have thought shouting "This is for Allah" and "This is for my family , this is for Islam" while driving foot long knives into innocent folk would give em a clue as to whats behind it ... Whats so difficult to understand ... Passages from the Quran recited by ISIS on many occasions tell you we are the dirty kuffar and they are the superior ones here to kill or convert ... Don't over think it ... Problem is it will not end and I can see before too long revenge attacks on home soil will start and then the wet left really will have a problem ... 3 more arrested at the weekend in my town in a big anti-terror sting and remember we gave the world the lovely 7/7 bomber Jermaine Lindsay

I hope your wrong about that, so far I have seen quite the opposite. I have been quite impressed by the reaction of the public across all faiths although Im not sure I follow why the "Wet left" really will have a problem if there are revenge attacks. I sincerely hope that does not happen as it plays directly into the hands of these people. They want division, they want us to hate them and to cause hate towards Muslims. The last thing they want is Muslims becoming more moderate in this country. They probably hate the moderate Muslims as much as they hate the white British Christians. We are better than that though aren't we?The government scored an own goal I reckon in depleting the Police force by 19000 over the last few years. People complained in the past that the Muslim communities were not speaking out, well apparently they were and both the Manchester bomber and at least one of the three the other night were reported to the Police on several occasions but still they managed to carry out these attacks.All we can do across all faiths is to try and become as united as possible in outing these people. Sadly it wont go away but we can decrease their chances by giving them nowhere to hide and making sure we have the resources to take them off the streets.

Why on earth do they want us to hate them and cause hate towards Muslims ??? Struggling to understand that ... If their aim is converting the kuffar then us hating them aint guna help their cause is it ... If all of a sudden we are going to become united across all faiths then that is something that 70 or 60 years of multiculturalism has failed to do up to press so I suppose every cloud has a silver lining and all that if you believe in fairy tales

Of course they want to cause hate and division. They hate moderate Muslims as much as they hate the rest of us. They know full well that nobody here in their right mind is going to convert to ISLAM because of their terror campaign but what they do want is to divide our nation to boost their ranks for one thing. Any knee jerk reactions to this such as internment, retaliation, burning Mosques etc is likely to do exactly that and I Am sure they would be delighted at that happening. So far though it seems to be having the exact opposite effect. So yeah, every cloud and all that.I honestly think the Good and moderate Muslims of this country will be the ones to out these evil people. Its happening already. Manchester bomber reported 5 times by the Muslim Community, one of the London Bridge attackers reported at least twice. How they managed to then still go on and carry out an attack is somewhat worrying but perhaps investing in more resources and boots on the ground rather than this government sacking nearly twenty thousand coppers hasnt helped.

Barry you are mixing your hate comments so which is it because you posted both of these comments:

This....... "they want us to hate them and to cause hate towards Muslims."

or this:

"Of course they want to cause hate and division. They hate moderate Muslims as much as they hate the rest of us."

The bottom line is, as I have already said and is easy to confirm with a little research, for those 'extremists' it is nothing to do with hatred it is religious indoctrination of the most extreme kind.  They do what they do because some mad Mullah has convinced them that it is their religious duty to either convert or kill 'all infidels' which includes so called moderate Muslims and even those from a different sect.

Clearly this is relevant to those who commit these acts willingly and not those acting under duress.

Im not sure what you mean. Both comments pretty much mean the same thing.Its all about hatred actually of both none Muslims and those that do not practice their twisted version of Islam. Someone linked to the ISIS Magazine / Handbook the other day. Have you read it? I have. Its pretty chilling stuff. Have a look at page 30. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiT1cDRmanUAhVHBsAKHYtsAMoQFggsMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fclarionproject.org%2Ffactsheets-files%2Fislamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEHJdQRhfP5SgNCFV6tnLGzZa5-UQ&sig2=Ua7eWTRiUXcB5I9NAdae8A&cad=rjaAdam Hills sums it up all very well following the Manchester Bombings.

[RogerC]

Barry....I've not done the quote thing because the thread is getting so long.

Your comments on hatred are not the same thing they coming from opposing directions.
You said "they want us to hate them" but then you said
 "They hate moderate Muslims as much as they hate the rest of us".

It has nothing to do with hatred either way it is solely and simply a religious jihad

that goes back centuries but which has taken on a greater degree of activity and prominence in recent times. 

[Barryd999]

RogerC - 2017-06-06 1:43 PM

Barry....I've not done the quote thing because the thread is getting so long.

Your comments on hatred are not the same thing they coming from opposing directions.

You said "they want us to hate them" but then you said

 "They hate moderate Muslims as much as they hate the rest of us".

It has nothing to do with hatred either way it is solely and simply a religious jihad

that goes back centuries but which has taken on a greater degree of activity and prominence in recent times. 

You clearly have not read the link download then. Its all about Hatred. I still dont get what your on about though. sorry.

[RogerC]

Barry...the hatred is merely a product of the base reason all this is happening.  They are not doing it because of simple hatred.  It is based on religious teachings by warped and twisted Imams and Mullahs delivering a Koranic to message that all non believers be converted or killed and clearly there are those who believe it and act accordingly......in accordance with what they believe to be religious doctrine....... not hatred.

[antony1969]

Day 11 of Ramadan and the slaughter figures going up pretty quick ... 59 strikes with 627 killed , God knows how many injured or how many other strikes security forces have stopped ... The religion of peace strikes again and again and .......

[John52]

Those who are killed or arrested cannot speak to us, so I suppose we can only guess why they did it?

One of the killers was heard to say 'This is for my family'

Was his family was under a British Bomb in Iraq, Syria or somewhere?

 

[Barryd999]

Whatever the reasons they are doing it they do indeed certainly hate just about everyone including Muslims.

 

The latest claim by ISIS (Whoever they are) is that the latest attack on London was the fault of the RAF for writing "With Love from Manchester" on a bomb which they then lobbed at Syria. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-terror-attack-isis-supporters-claim-revenge-raf-love-from-manchester-air-strike-bomb-borough-a7773231.html

 

These people are just Fecked up evil hooligans who simply love to hate and kill. I reckon it has sod all to do with religion, at least any kind of religion 99.9% of civilised society would recognise. The sooner we get away from associating it with religion and dig out these people from our society the better. Thats what self respecting British Muslims want and its what we all want. Thats why we must stay united. Tougher penalties wont work, only digging them out and exposing them and then finding a way to put them away will.

[Barryd999]

Apparently one of the evil terrorists from the London attack featured in the Jihadis next door documentary from 2016. Channel 4 have taken it down and the Police have not named him for security reasons but I found it on Daily Motion. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3nty41

 

Its really disturbing and very difficult to watch. I found myself thinking if I had a gun I would happily pull the trigger myself on these people. I believe I am right though. They are no more than evil twisted and bitter thugs. They claim its all about Allah and religion but I dont believe that. Its all about hate and bitterness. How we take them off our streets I Really do not know as they are quite clever in just what they say and admit to. Most of the confrontation in the video is actually with other peaceful Muslims. They just hate everyone. Perhaps it will be them that eventually put a stop to this kind of thing. It really is sickening but if you want an idea of what and who these people (our enemy) are then I would urge you to watch it.

[antony1969]

Barryd999 - 2017-06-06 6:12 PM

 

Apparently one of the evil terrorists from the London attack featured in the Jihadis next door documentary from 2016. Channel 4 have taken it down and the Police have not named him for security reasons but I found it on Daily Motion. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3nty41

 

Its really disturbing and very difficult to watch. I found myself thinking if I had a gun I would happily pull the trigger myself on these people. I believe I am right though. They are no more than evil twisted and bitter thugs. They claim its all about Allah and religion but I dont believe that. Its all about hate and bitterness. How we take them off our streets I Really do not know as they are quite clever in just what they say and admit to. Most of the confrontation in the video is actually with other peaceful Muslims. They just hate everyone. Perhaps it will be them that eventually put a stop to this kind of thing. It really is sickening but if you want an idea of what and who these people (our enemy) are then I would urge you to watch it.

 

 

Yep they just hate everyone ... it's nothing to do with religion ... if they hate everyone including fellow Muslims why don't they ever go into a Mosque and blow every one up or run into an Indian restaurant and stab all the staff

[Barryd999]

antony1969 - 2017-06-06 6:43 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-06-06 6:12 PM

 

Apparently one of the evil terrorists from the London attack featured in the Jihadis next door documentary from 2016. Channel 4 have taken it down and the Police have not named him for security reasons but I found it on Daily Motion. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3nty41

 

Its really disturbing and very difficult to watch. I found myself thinking if I had a gun I would happily pull the trigger myself on these people. I believe I am right though. They are no more than evil twisted and bitter thugs. They claim its all about Allah and religion but I dont believe that. Its all about hate and bitterness. How we take them off our streets I Really do not know as they are quite clever in just what they say and admit to. Most of the confrontation in the video is actually with other peaceful Muslims. They just hate everyone. Perhaps it will be them that eventually put a stop to this kind of thing. It really is sickening but if you want an idea of what and who these people (our enemy) are then I would urge you to watch it.

 

 

Yep they just hate everyone ... it's nothing to do with religion ... if they hate everyone including fellow Muslims why don't they ever go into a Mosque and blow every one up or run into an Indian restaurant and stab all the staff

 

They do. Take a look at what these Evil scum are doing all around the world. Their favourite target is other Muslims that dont perhaps follow their hateful pathetic views. Watch the program and just see for yourself what they think of peaceful Muslims and what they also think of them. I think we are almost on the same page Antony after what I have just witnessed certainly as far as driving these people out is concerned. Maybe you shouldnt watch it. After how it made me feel you might be needing a new telly. :D

[malc d]

John52 - 2017-06-06 3:47 PM

 

Those who are killed or arrested cannot speak to us, so I suppose we can only guess why they did it?

One of the killers was heard to say 'This is for my family'

Was his family was under a British Bomb in Iraq, Syria or somewhere?

 

 

 

If you are right - why are they killing / attacking Spaniards, Romanians, South Koreans, and Greeks ?

 

(?)

[antony1969]

malc d - 2017-06-06 7:19 PM

 

John52 - 2017-06-06 3:47 PM

 

Those who are killed or arrested cannot speak to us, so I suppose we can only guess why they did it?

One of the killers was heard to say 'This is for my family'

Was his family was under a British Bomb in Iraq, Syria or somewhere?

 

 

 

If you are right - why are they killing / attacking Spaniards, Romanians, South Koreans, and Greeks ?

 

(?)

 

Quite right ... You could add to that attacks in Thailand and Belgium and also France and Germany who were hit before any involvement in any of the wars ... The myth its for Iraq and Syria is a front to hide the uncomfortable truth these vile acts are done simply because we are dirty kuffars