StuartO Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Clearly the idea of doing this sort of recycling of a MH body seems whacky to most of us but I have always admired the skills and commitment which go in customisation of vehicles in the USA and they achieve some wonderful results as well as presumably some failures. I wouldn't tackle it but if the OP decides to do this project I wish him the very best of good fortune and success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 When I was in Tasmania - There were basic rental motorhomes which where essentially a container or crew cab chained to the back of a chassis, - pretty crude, but the Motorhome bit could easily be transferred to another vehicle - maybe that idea should be taken further. I have walked down a motorhome production line - the way a motorhome is built is they take the chassis, bond in the floor, then put in the insides, all the fixtures and fittings, cupboards, beds, appliance's etc - and the finally put on the sides, roof and rear, - this is partly why changing a shower unit is nearly impossible in some cases, - it went in first. (With a PVC, they do slide the fittings into the van, pretty much as it stands). Given this construction technique, it would be very tricky to essentially move the habitation area onto another chassis, - I guess you would need to de-construct the van, sides and roof off, take out all the fitting's and re-construct. Near impossible to "slide" it over as unit. Saying that I have friends in the car and motorcycle restoration business, - nothing is impossible if you really want to do it and cost and time isn't a constraint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Algernon Another view Buy a new vehicle complete to the spec you want. You now have two Motorhomes. Engage a company to remove what you don't like of the new one and replace it with what you do like of the old one. (bodywork and fittings) I assume its the living space you like so in reality its the opposite to what you first suggested with the same preferred result. Scrap what's left. All you are losing is the resale value of a 15 year old van (minimal), plus the work carried out replacing like for like (or similar). Label it whatever you like, Customised or Kit Form. What are the legalities? its compliant. Its roadworthy. Its like for like. Who would know? Yes, I like that way forward, its possibly the simplest with a perfect result. Sorry but I cannot handle it. Will PS And how's about that ... almost the same route as Mike above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Ignoring all of the practical stuff like where to do it and how long it might take to get it type approved and registered..... No. Actually i will speak up about the type approval... The COC's will come from Fiat and AL-Ko as they would if the platform was destined for any other converter. The finished vehicle would have to be taken for an Individual Type Approval and as long as it conforms to current legislation regarding lighting etc and the COC's are present and correct; it will be passed for registration. The process for an IVA takes minutes to start the ball rolling online and an appointment can take between 2 and 8 weeks to come through. The costs are around £750 for the paperwork and inspection from start to finish. You do have to keep detailed records of each and every part that is fitted and the processes used to fix things in place. A visit to a commercial vehicle bodybuilder should give you some clues to what is involved with the documentation. It must look thorough! Anyway. This project will be difficult in the extreme because you are going to be fitting a cowl that is 100mm or thereabouts wider than the original. Electrically it will not be a problem but accommodating a wider dashboard and needing a larger windscreen will be bad enough but you will have to sculpt a wider front end onto a narrower rear end and getting that done properly will be very difficult indeed. Nothing wrong with mission difficult; but to recognise mission impossible at an early stage will save you a lot of time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Your first enquiry should be to find a supplier of a chassis. I doubt Fiat would supply you. Maybe a commercial body builder like Doyles. https://www.doylescommercial.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 That's what I should have said ! Now move your living accommodation onto the new chassis. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 As the thinking behind the proposed ‘transplant’ is to “...end up with a motorhome that is emissions compliant for the foreseeable future”, the initial priority must be to establish whether that objective is realistically achievable. 1: If a Fiat Ducato Euro 6 cowl-unit could be obtained (and I’m extremely doubtful this is a realistic possibility) grafting this to a 2002 Frankia’s original body and AL-KO chassis would not automatically produce a vehicle officially recognised as being Euro 6-compliant. Essentially you’d just end up with an already-UK-registered 2002 Frankia fitted with a replacement motor. 2: Algernon’s posting of 15 August 2017 1:47 PM suggests an alternative approach involving first obtaining a new Ducato Euro 6 cowl-unit (which, having no rear chassis, would of course be undrivable and could not be UK-registered in that state). The body and the AL-KO chassis from the 2002 Frankia would then be transferred to the new cowl and the completed vehicle would then be UK-registered with the DVLA as brand-new. The resultant vehicle would not be a ‘Frankia’ - it would be a Fiat/Algernon and, being based on a (say) 2018 Euro 6 Ducato cowl, the marriage of brand-new cowl and 2002 AL-KO and Frankia bits would somehow have to conform to current technical requirements (ABS, ESC, etc. etc.) as euroserv has pointed out. If those hurdles could be jumped, it MIGHT be possible to have the completed ‘new’ vehicle recognised as Euro 6-compliant. Never mind the 'mechanical’ challenges - if the project fails to result in a motohome “....that is emissions compliant for the foreseeable future” because the bureaucratic obstacles involved are impossible to overcome, it would be as well to estimate the risk of that happening now rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Ask frankia for a price of a chassis cowl and a new alko chassis. and a price to remove and refit the existing house. But their is no real gain in this. And looking absurd to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I think this is the most mad, idiosyncratic, eccentric idea that I've ever heard of. One could fill pages and pages on why it shouldn't be attempted (and some have already tried :-D ). But, what's the point? If he wants to see if he can do it, I say good luck. This could turn out to be the most brilliant, idiosyncratic, eccentric idea that I've ever heard of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Methinks this is an idea inspired by Heath Robinson..............trying not to be too downbeat about the idea.........I reckon it's utterly barking!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I don’t think there’s anything intrinsically ‘wrong’ with the idea, and plenty of people have DIY-made radically altered vehicles. Quite a few 6-wheel Transits have been built (example photo attached) and some of these have been constructed to a high standard. I do question, though, whether consideration has been given to the basic tasks involved in producing a Euro 6-compliant motorhome using a new Euro 6 cowl (or chassis cowl) and transplanting on to it the body and AL-KO chassis of a 2002 Frankia A-class model. As Nick Fisher (euroserv) has highlighted, the cowl of a Ducato X250/X290 is wider than that of an X230, and the attachment points for the rear chassis are also differently positioned. This YouTube video shows an AL-KO chassis being constructed and bolted to the rear of a Ducato X250 cab-only unit, but the chassis designed for an X250/X290 won’t fit on an X230 cab/cowl, nor vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algernon Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 “Mad, idiosyncratic, eccentric idea that I've ever heard of”- well it might be? The point is unless research is undertaken then we would never know if this was possible, using this forum is part of the research, and certainly IMO makes more interesting reading than threads about ‘gas attacks, Calais migrants or the safety of using Aires, forgive me I digress. Imagine being able to change the front end of a vehicle to extend longevity, perfect for front wheel drive, think of the benefits to the environment if we could easily upgrade our motorhomes or for that matter all lightweight commercial vehicles. Apart from Led lighting and a bit more bling the habitation part of a motorhome has hardly changed over the last ten years, yet the ‘glossies’ spend much of their editorial space tempting us to by new. The current ploy is to encourage everyone to down size! The concept of modular vehicles is not new, Google it and you will see Henry Ford toyed with the idea The problem is the concept does not bring any benefits to the manufacturer. Obsolescence is designed and built in to nearly everything that comes out of a factory, and the endless new styled models that are launched each year just perpetuates this, as does Euro compliance. They just want us to keep consuming. At the moment the push for electric cars is accelerating. Instead of creating charging points all over the place why not designed the battery pack so that it be easily exchanged. Just pull into the service station, swap the battery pack with a fully charged one and off you go, just like exchanging a gas cylinder! All it requires is a bit of standardisation. Thinking out of the box is an essential part of R&D. Please do keep your thoughts coming, good, bad or even ridiculous! Algernon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-08-17 8:23 AM As Nick Fisher (euroserv) has highlighted, the cowl of a Ducato X250/X290 is wider than that of an X230, and the attachment points for the rear chassis are also differently positioned. So might it be easier to get a FULL rolling X2/90 chassis cowl and brand new Al-Ko chassis all perfectly aligned and working and then 'simply' transplant Algernon's Frankia body onto it? Derek Uzzell - 2017-08-17 8:23 AM ... Quite a few 6-wheel Transits have been built (example photo attached) .... Derek, That is a very bad example of photo shopping a 4 wheel transit into a 6 wheel (look at the trees in the background). If only Algernon' could perform a similar copy/paste of his body onto a new chassis :D Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Looks more like it was modified by Photoshop or similar! That would be a simple solution for Algernon. A new motorhome with the right layout etc, and a framed picture of the beloved current Frankia - even perhaps and external graphic - may achieve what Algernon seeks. I believe anything is possible if you have the budget, time and personal commitment. The feasibility study will highlight the technical and legislative viability of the idea to Algernon and the budget, time and personal commitment required to overcome problems to produce an original 'Fiat Algernon' and not a 'Fiat Frankiastein'. There are problems to see and many more will come out of the woodwork. What I don't know, and this will have a big impact on the outcome, is whether Algernon and the people entrusted with the work will have what it takes to overcome those problems. If they do, we could be looking at one hell of an achievement. I just hope Algernon does not spend money and get nothing back in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 The world is built on impossible ideas,' many undeniably succeed into thriving businesses. Perhaps the daftest is an iron ship weighing thousands of tons that will float on water, and then they build an aerodrome on it ... how crazy was that Of course this project can be done, its a simple matter of planning ahead. Some of you are not very progressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Will86 - 2017-08-17 10:35 AM The world is built on impossible ideas,' many undeniably succeed into thriving businesses. Perhaps the daftest is an iron ship weighing thousands of tons that will float on water, and then they build an aerodrome on it ... how crazy was that Of course this project can be done, its a simple matter of planning ahead. Some of you are not very progressive. My employment over the last few decades has been doing projects which might equate to the OP. A 4 seater Tigermoth anyone, take one standard Tiger remove front and rear, modify the cockpit to make it wider, fit a subframe front and rear of cockpit and bolt original front and rear back on, then make a canopy with doors, viola one Jackaroo. I've also specialised in hanging aircraft in buildings, I've yet to come across an aircraft designed to be hung permanently and even the simplest looking result can be a challenge. I have no doubts I could do the job if I wanted to, my advise to OP is still don't bother unless you want to spend a large amount of money on what will still be ,at the rear, a 15 yo vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algernon Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Having spent most of my working life in engineering, albeit working on developing manufacturing techniques (Group Technology principles in the late sixties and latterly Lean Manufacturing) and not motor vehicle, I do have the competencies. I could easily create detail drawings and write some Standard Operating Procedures and give the work to someone else. Is there a potential business modal here? The engineering complexity is not that great. However, there are three areas that might scupper the plan, (for the moment let’s forget about costs) 1. Availability of a ‘new’ donor vehicle. My experience is that manufacturers, dealers will close rank if there is any threat to their market. This was clearly demonstrated with the bagless vacuum cleaner when Dyson tried to sell the concept to Hoover etc. Loss of bag sales http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/dysonvac.htm 2. The compatibility of the donor, it has already been stated there is a 100mm difference, in itself this is does not make it impossible just more complex. 3. Compliance, Although if it is done properly then this should not be an issue? As I have stated I need a projec,t the feasibility study in itself is part of the project and helps to keep the grey cells active during retirement!! Looking at the number of hits this thread is getting it is creating quite a bit of interest Algernon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Algernon - 2017-08-17 9:26 AM The concept of modular vehicles is not new, Google it and you will see Henry Ford toyed with the idea And think about it ................ Land Rover put it into action with the Defender! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Algernon - 2017-08-17 11:43 AM Is there a potential business modal here? Algernon I don't think so, it won't be cheap, and as I've posted the rear will still be old, it may be there are a few very good rears, but many will be old and worn with damp problems, and declining stocks of spares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Keithl - 2017-08-17 9:35 AM Derek Uzzell - 2017-08-17 8:23 AM ... Quite a few 6-wheel Transits have been built (example photo attached) .... Derek, That is a very bad example of photo shopping a 4 wheel transit into a 6 wheel (look at the trees in the background). If only Algernon' could perform a similar copy/paste of his body onto a new chassis :D Keith. Just keeping you on your toes... ;-) If you’d like to see a genuine example (and it’s not the only one) check out this link https://live.staticflickr.com/7149/6565744653_46b540fd2b_b.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Algernon - 2017-08-17 11:43 AM Is there a potential business modal here? Algernon No, you don't have a model there's no design or prototype and I doubt there was any intention to 'produce' anything only to modify a single existing type for your own interest.and the M/H market has all variations well covered. PS I like the 4 seat Tiger, (worked many T's). The two seat Spitfire is being made this very day on the IOW all for a purpose of course. Wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Will86 - 2017-08-17 4:10 PM PS I like the 4 seat Tiger, (worked many T's). Here it is at Shuttleworth. http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/35985eb6ffe0450ca39363c77c4e2ef1/a-converted-tiger-moth-jackeroo-performing-a-flying-stunt-at-white-bp67bk.jpg p.s. I've assumed shuttleworth as Dennis often flys there, but title suggests it may be on a visit to White Waltham.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.