Another Brexit Casualty

[Brian Kirby]

RogerC - 2017-10-14 3:37 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2017-10-14 12:08 PM "If good people follow bad leaders, they get in a mess. Moral? Don't elect/tolerate bad leaders. Problem is, it is the people (the little guys collectively) who beget the bad leaders".  

...............................................................

Roger, you're doing it again! Here's the full quote (the omitted qualification underlined):

 

"If good people follow bad leaders, they get in a mess. Moral? Don't elect/tolerate bad leaders. Problem is, it is the people (the little guys collectively) who beget the bad leaders. It is the paradox of democracy."

 

In the absence of that last, brief, sentence, you hide the context (democracy), so misrepresenting the quote to give yourself a platform for using dictatorships as examples of people not being able to choose their leaders. Well, no they can't, but then, I didn't say, or imply, that they could.

 

I share your view of dictators: it is fair comment, but dictatorships are not relevant to the shortcomings of democracies. Apples and marbles?

 

"Just because one does not concur with your idea of sound preparation does not mean those following a different course are not 'Sensible People'." Well, give me a few examples of where unsound, on no, preparation (presumably the "different course") has resulted in good outcomes for complex and risky decisions. I'm open to persuasion, but my experience tells me otherwise.

[Guest pelmetman]

antony1969 - 2017-10-15 12:37 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 10:34 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-10-15 10:03 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 9:27 AM

 

I see the latest yougov poll shows a big swing to remain.

 

 

I seem to recall they also predicted a Tory landslide >:-) .......

 

 

Maybe but also remember the surprise result was a reaction against a possible hard brexit. I bet you and the other crash and burn Brexiteers wouldn't be willing to put it to the test though with a second referendum huh? That's fine but don't bleat on about the will of the people or respecting democracy anymore.

 

As for a possible hard Brexit. If this lot get their way it could be an impossibility https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/14/cross-party-group-no-deal-theresa-may-brexit-eu[/quote

 

So given the only party in the last election promising a 2nd referendum was the Lib Dems we might have expected a little better from them if your theory is correct ???

 

(lol) ........

 

Cleggy's even telling Lib Dems to join Labour or the Tories, coz he knows they're now irrelevant :D ........

 

 

[RogerC]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 9:27 AMI see the latest yougov poll shows a big swing to remain.  the will of he people can we now assume that we all agree we should do exactly that and revoke article 50? Surely there has to be a second referendum at the least now. We must respect democracy remember and the majority no longer wish to leave  

That is an interesting proposition.....lets do away with general elections and referenda.  Let's make national decisions based on 1001 peoples views (number of Yougov pollsters) and save a fortune.  After all why should we bother taking notice of 33.600,000,000 voices when 1001 will clearly suffice.

[RogerC]

Brian, I appreciate your in depth responses.  I feel your apparent ability to investigate authors, determine their bias and then read whatever document with an informed eye etc etc to be something infinitely greater than that which 'Joe Public' would be interested, or indeed willing, to do in order to come to a decision.  I say decision as I feel judgement infers a greater deal of interest than most could muster.

Regarding the Dodgy Dossier.....It was not flawed.  It did exactly what B'liar wanted it to do....take us into a war.  It was, according to numerous sources, including the spinmeister Alastair Campbell, returned for 'amendment' numerous times until it was accepted and presented to the nation.  Clearly the Cabinet had sight of said document as did the security services heads and authors.  Indeed it appears Jack Straw had a hand in it's formulation in order that it became a more convincing document to support military action.  So what does one consider a 'peer' review in this instance?  The Cabinet saw it in various states of originality and amended versions, the security services also had sight of the document, the Joint Intelligence Committee saw it etc etc.  So I ask how many more people/organisations needed to see it before a 'Peer' review made public it's findings that the Prime Minister was conspiring to take us to war?  Therefore one can review until the cows come home because there will always be, in this age of 'professional' spin and distortion, a desire to question the veracity of all and any report should one be minded to.

My comment on 'sound preparation' appears to have met with the adage....'what one writes is not always what is read'......conveyance of meaning has gone astray here.  I was not referring to sound or indeed unsound preparation.  My comment was to address the inference I drew from your comment 'Sensible people' etc etc which I read as inferring that those who do not approach matters with what 'you' consider to be the correct course are 'not sensible'.  It is a comment that really has no value because what is sound planning to one party could quite easily be unsound to another.  It is all a matter of perspective, of existing knowledge of pertinent factors and therefore being able to determine potential outcomes.  Given that perspective and existing knowledge is a variable across the populace it is clear that even when one achieves a balanced decision in ones own mind others possibly consider your findings to be 'not sensible' or vice versa.

So who is to say, without the benefit of hindsight, who is sensible and who is not?

[antony1969]

pelmetman - 2017-10-15 12:59 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-10-15 12:37 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 10:34 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-10-15 10:03 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 9:27 AM

 

I see the latest yougov poll shows a big swing to remain.

 

 

I seem to recall they also predicted a Tory landslide >:-) .......

 

 

Maybe but also remember the surprise result was a reaction against a possible hard brexit. I bet you and the other crash and burn Brexiteers wouldn't be willing to put it to the test though with a second referendum huh? That's fine but don't bleat on about the will of the people or respecting democracy anymore.

 

As for a possible hard Brexit. If this lot get their way it could be an impossibility https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/14/cross-party-group-no-deal-theresa-may-brexit-eu[/quote

 

So given the only party in the last election promising a 2nd referendum was the Lib Dems we might have expected a little better from them if your theory is correct ???

 

(lol) ........

 

Cleggy's even telling Lib Dems to join Labour or the Tories, coz he knows they're now irrelevant :D ........

 

 

He's got to say something to get him in the spotlight with his latest venture ... His new books just out How To Stop Brexit ... Sounds like a right read does it not ... Barrys got it on Kindle , hardback , paperback and audio

... In answer to the books title I would say simply ... Win the referendum

[Barryd999]

RogerC - 2017-10-15 1:19 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 9:27 AMI see the latest yougov poll shows a big swing to remain.  the will of he people can we now assume that we all agree we should do exactly that and revoke article 50? Surely there has to be a second referendum at the least now. We must respect democracy remember and the majority no longer wish to leave  

That is an interesting proposition.....lets do away with general elections and referenda.  Let's make national decisions based on 1001 peoples views (number of Yougov pollsters) and save a fortune.  After all why should we bother taking notice of 33.600,000,000 voices when 1001 will clearly suffice.

Well you have general elections every four years or with this government every five minutes so if people have changed their minds then they can vote accordingly. With the referendum we were told it was a one time thing. Now it "appears" that many have had a change of heart. Ok so they are polls but there is a trend of the past 14 or so where all have been a swing to remain. Now it seems there is a larger swing and of course you don't have to be Einstein to work out that this swing will continue to widen in remains favour.So with that in mind and the prospect of us probably not leaving for three to four years anyway now would it not make sense to have another vote? Why would you object to that? Surely you want to be sure and wouldn't dream of wanting to go ahead with something that is no longer the will of the people. If it is still the will of the people it would settle it forever wouldn't it? I would certainly accept it especially if it's still the will when we know more and have a better idea of what Brexit would look like

[RogerC]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 2:40 PM

RogerC - 2017-10-15 1:19 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 9:27 AMI see the latest yougov poll shows a big swing to remain.  the will of he people can we now assume that we all agree we should do exactly that and revoke article 50? Surely there has to be a second referendum at the least now. We must respect democracy remember and the majority no longer wish to leave  

That is an interesting proposition.....lets do away with general elections and referenda.  Let's make national decisions based on 1001 peoples views (number of Yougov pollsters) and save a fortune.  After all why should we bother taking notice of 33.600,000,000 voices when 1001 will clearly suffice.

Well you have general elections every four years or with this government every five minutes so if people have changed their minds then they can vote accordingly. With the referendum we were told it was a one time thing. Now it "appears" that many have had a change of heart. Ok so they are polls but there is a trend of the past 14 or so where all have been a swing to remain. Now it seems there is a larger swing and of course you don't have to be Einstein to work out that this swing will continue to widen in remains favour.So with that in mind and the prospect of us probably not leaving for three to four years anyway now would it not make sense to have another vote? Why would you object to that? Surely you want to be sure and wouldn't dream of wanting to go ahead with something that is no longer the will of the people. If it is still the will of the people it would settle it forever wouldn't it? I would certainly accept it especially if it's still the will when we know more and have a better idea of what Brexit would look like

As has been said before.....why not just do as the Irish did....have vote after vote until the desired outcome is achieved?  

[Barryd999]

RogerC - 2017-10-15 3:03 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 2:40 PM

RogerC - 2017-10-15 1:19 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 9:27 AMI see the latest yougov poll shows a big swing to remain.  the will of he people can we now assume that we all agree we should do exactly that and revoke article 50? Surely there has to be a second referendum at the least now. We must respect democracy remember and the majority no longer wish to leave  

That is an interesting proposition.....lets do away with general elections and referenda.  Let's make national decisions based on 1001 peoples views (number of Yougov pollsters) and save a fortune.  After all why should we bother taking notice of 33.600,000,000 voices when 1001 will clearly suffice.

Well you have general elections every four years or with this government every five minutes so if people have changed their minds then they can vote accordingly. With the referendum we were told it was a one time thing. Now it "appears" that many have had a change of heart. Ok so they are polls but there is a trend of the past 14 or so where all have been a swing to remain. Now it seems there is a larger swing and of course you don't have to be Einstein to work out that this swing will continue to widen in remains favour.So with that in mind and the prospect of us probably not leaving for three to four years anyway now would it not make sense to have another vote? Why would you object to that? Surely you want to be sure and wouldn't dream of wanting to go ahead with something that is no longer the will of the people. If it is still the will of the people it would settle it forever wouldn't it? I would certainly accept it especially if it's still the will when we know more and have a better idea of what Brexit would look like

As has been said before.....why not just do as the Irish did....have vote after vote until the desired outcome is achieved?  

I knew you wouldn't be able to come up with any kind of sensible answer as the only sensible and fair answer is a second vote or at least a vote on the final deal which if it's not accepted we remain.The referendum result simply showed us that on that day we really weren't sure if we wanted to leave or not but on that day it was marginaly a vote to leave which is why there should have always been a second vote down the line once we had more of an idea what Brexit might look like.Now we do have more of an idea and it's not looking good for Brexit and without any shadow of doubt no appetite for a crash as burn hard Brexit. The pollys are going to be forced to take notice of that and act accordingly. The only thing they can do is accept whatever deal we are offered which will not be as good as what we have now and will no doubt inlcude paying in and of course the dreaded free movement. So really faced with the options of a Luke warm deal and everything that goes with it or just staying in which one will the majority choose? I bet the hard core Brexiteers are crapping themselves now though at that prospect but it's what the majority want and certainly what the majority of pollys want. Only 18% of remainers now back the tories by the way with previously true blue voters choosing Corbyn as they feel labour now offer the best chance of a soft Brexit or no Brexit.The obvious answer to the pollys to get themselves out of this mess is to throw it back at the public. Somehow I reckon this is what will happen.

[RogerC]

Ah so now we have a referendum that asks:

"OK people how do you feel today about leaving or staying in the EU?  If you'd like to place your 'X' in the applicable box we will take a look and then, next week maybe, we will ask again just in case you feel differently.

Oh and just to be sure please indicate how often we should ask you to vote in or out by putting a number (indicating the number of weeks between voting opportunities) in the box at the bottom of the voting paper.  This will ensure you have every opportunity to change, change and change your mind as is your wont".

This pathetic inability, to accept the outcome of a democratic process has, quite frankly, become incredibly boring. 

[RogerC]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 4:28 PM

 ......previously true blue voters choosing Corbyn as they feel labour now offer the best chance of a soft Brexit or no Brexit.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/xShGyTEql_Q/hqdefault.jpg

[Barryd999]

RogerC - 2017-10-15 5:09 PMAh so now we have a referendum that asks:

"OK people how do you feel today about leaving or staying in the EU?  If you'd like to place your 'X' in the applicable box we will take a look and then, next week maybe, we will ask again just in case you feel differently.

Oh and just to be sure please indicate how often we should ask you to vote in or out by putting a number (indicating the number of weeks between voting opportunities) in the box at the bottom of the voting paper.  This will ensure you have every opportunity to change, change and change your mind as is your wont".

This pathetic inability, to accept the outcome of a democratic process has, quite frankly, become incredibly boring. 

Still no sensible answer Roger. As for the last statement well we have been there many times and for me and many others it was a disgrace to our democracy but I'm sure you feel differently. However we are where we are but it is undeniable that there has been a move to remaining and certainly no desire for a hard Brexit at all.So what if that continues. What if in a years time there isn't a single person left in the UK that wants to leave the EU? are you seriously saying that because we had a referendum a long long time ago we should damn well proceed with it no matter what? If you are you are totally doing so for selfish reasons and remeber the will of the people is all important!We need to find a way out of this mess and it should be the public that decides. If you respect democracy and think I am wrong then what have you got to worry about?As for your joke image. I'm unclear if you think Corbyn and labour are a joke or that the figures quoted are a joke

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 5:32 PM

 

As for your joke image. I'm unclear if you think Corbyn and labour are a joke or that the figures quoted are a joke

 

Talking of Labour jokes ;-) .......I heard John Macdonald say on tv ......We'll have to clear the mess the Tories leave behind 8-) .........

 

For info Mr Macdonald they're still clearing up the mess YOUR party left behind >:-) .......

 

Just imagine the mess a bunch of loony lefty communists can cause ? 8-) .......

 

 

[Barryd999]

Well I'm not normally a labour voter Dave but I reckon a bunch of chimps would be a better replacement for the Tories right now

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 7:03 PM

 

Well I'm not normally a labour voter Dave but I reckon a bunch of chimps would be a better replacement for the Tories right now

 

Well if you think some dangerous chumps are the better option .......then I can only assume you've had too much sun, wine, food, time off, bad singing .......delete as appropriate ;-) .......

 

 

 

 

[antony1969]

pelmetman - 2017-10-15 7:13 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 7:03 PM

 

Well I'm not normally a labour voter Dave but I reckon a bunch of chimps would be a better replacement for the Tories right now

 

Well if you think some dangerous chumps are the better option .......then I can only assume you've had too much sun, wine, food, time off, bad singing .......delete as appropriate ;-) .......

 

 

 

 

Chuckle

[Barryd999]

Whaddaya mean bad singing!!!!? Your only making it worse for yourself, don't think I've forgotten the avatar either. And you can shurrup an all Antony! At least my singing is better than your dancing! Pelmet and Antony - aka Hinge and Bracket.

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 8:50 PM

 

Whaddaya mean bad singing!!!!? Your only making it worse for yourself, don't think I've forgotten the avatar either. And you can shurrup an all Antony! At least my singing is better than your dancing! Pelmet and Antony - aka Hinge and Bracket.

 

Correction.....aka Unhinged & (Aldo) :D ........

[RogerC]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 5:32 PM

RogerC - 2017-10-15 5:09 PMAh so now we have a referendum that asks:

"OK people how do you feel today about leaving or staying in the EU?  If you'd like to place your 'X' in the applicable box we will take a look and then, next week maybe, we will ask again just in case you feel differently.

Oh and just to be sure please indicate how often we should ask you to vote in or out by putting a number (indicating the number of weeks between voting opportunities) in the box at the bottom of the voting paper.  This will ensure you have every opportunity to change, change and change your mind as is your wont".

This pathetic inability, to accept the outcome of a democratic process has, quite frankly, become incredibly boring. 

Still no sensible answer Roger. As for the last statement well we have been there many times and for me and many others it was a disgrace to our democracy but I'm sure you feel differently. However we are where we are but it is undeniable that there has been a move to remaining and certainly no desire for a hard Brexit at all.So what if that continues. What if in a years time there isn't a single person left in the UK that wants to leave the EU? are you seriously saying that because we had a referendum a long long time ago we should damn well proceed with it no matter what? If you are you are totally doing so for selfish reasons and remeber the will of the people is all important!We need to find a way out of this mess and it should be the public that decides. If you respect democracy and think I am wrong then what have you got to worry about?As for your joke image. I'm unclear if you think Corbyn and labour are a joke or that the figures quoted are a joke

You use lack of a 'sensible' response in my post yet you offer the absolutely ridiculous question based on there not being a single person in the UK wanting 'out' in a years time......  Pot, Kettle??

Now to me that is an indication of one who has not a single reasoned argument to support ones position.  So who is lacking in 'sense' now?

Oh and the joke is clearly aimed at all comments:

True blue voters turning to Corbyn....

Corbyn himself.....is a joke

Labour offering the best chance.......

https://s4.favim.com/610/141222/funny-happy-minions-Favim.com-2327704.jpg

The only thing Labour has to offer is to bankrupt the country again. Remember the last time.....leaving notes saying 'there's nothing left' in the Treasury. 

[Barryd999]

RogerC - 2017-10-15 9:38 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 5:32 PM

RogerC - 2017-10-15 5:09 PMAh so now we have a referendum that asks:

"OK people how do you feel today about leaving or staying in the EU?  If you'd like to place your 'X' in the applicable box we will take a look and then, next week maybe, we will ask again just in case you feel differently.

Oh and just to be sure please indicate how often we should ask you to vote in or out by putting a number (indicating the number of weeks between voting opportunities) in the box at the bottom of the voting paper.  This will ensure you have every opportunity to change, change and change your mind as is your wont".

This pathetic inability, to accept the outcome of a democratic process has, quite frankly, become incredibly boring. 

Still no sensible answer Roger. As for the last statement well we have been there many times and for me and many others it was a disgrace to our democracy but I'm sure you feel differently. However we are where we are but it is undeniable that there has been a move to remaining and certainly no desire for a hard Brexit at all.So what if that continues. What if in a years time there isn't a single person left in the UK that wants to leave the EU? are you seriously saying that because we had a referendum a long long time ago we should damn well proceed with it no matter what? If you are you are totally doing so for selfish reasons and remeber the will of the people is all important!We need to find a way out of this mess and it should be the public that decides. If you respect democracy and think I am wrong then what have you got to worry about?As for your joke image. I'm unclear if you think Corbyn and labour are a joke or that the figures quoted are a joke

You use lack of a 'sensible' response in my post yet you offer the absolutely ridiculous question based on there not being a single person in the UK wanting 'out' in a years time......  Pot, Kettle??

Now to me that is an indication of one who has not a single reasoned argument to support ones position.  So who is lacking in 'sense' now?

Oh and the joke is clearly aimed at all comments:

True blue voters turning to Corbyn....

Corbyn himself.....is a joke

Labour offering the best chance.......

https://s4.favim.com/610/141222/funny-happy-minions-Favim.com-2327704.jpg

The only thing Labour has to offer is to bankrupt the country again. Remember the last time.....leaving notes saying 'there's nothing left' in the Treasury. 

The stats about labour voters and the correlation with remainers and Posh safe until now Tory seats (Kensington) were clearly explained on the politics show this morning Roger, perhaps you didn't see it. I don't know if labour will bankrupt the country but I would guess Brexit is more likely to unless we don't leave or leave only in name.My question about what we should do about the referendum and Brexit if every single person in the UK supported remain was to try and tempt a sensible rational answer out of you but clearly that's not possible it seems. I'll try again one last time. If it could be proved without doubt that the split was say 65% remain and 35% leave would you or any of the hard core Brexiteers still think the original referendum result should be honoured and if so considering you harp on about democracy so much how would you justify that?All I'm saying is that is a possibility. It's going that way already. Why would we pursue something that is no longer the will of the majority?

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 10:05 PM

 

The stats about labour voters and the correlation with remainers and Posh safe until now Tory seats (Kensington) were clearly explained on the politics show this morning Roger, perhaps you didn't see it. I don't know if labour will bankrupt the country but I would guess Brexit is more likely to unless we don't leave or leave only in name.

 

 

Did the result of the referendum cause a recession? ;-) .......Nope.....

 

But I suspect the thought of Corbyn in charge will 8-) .........

 

 

[RogerC]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 10:05 PM

RogerC - 2017-10-15 9:38 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 5:32 PM

RogerC - 2017-10-15 5:09 PMAh so now we have a referendum that asks:

"OK people how do you feel today about leaving or staying in the EU?  If you'd like to place your 'X' in the applicable box we will take a look and then, next week maybe, we will ask again just in case you feel differently.

Oh and just to be sure please indicate how often we should ask you to vote in or out by putting a number (indicating the number of weeks between voting opportunities) in the box at the bottom of the voting paper.  This will ensure you have every opportunity to change, change and change your mind as is your wont".

This pathetic inability, to accept the outcome of a democratic process has, quite frankly, become incredibly boring. 

Still no sensible answer Roger. As for the last statement well we have been there many times and for me and many others it was a disgrace to our democracy but I'm sure you feel differently. However we are where we are but it is undeniable that there has been a move to remaining and certainly no desire for a hard Brexit at all.So what if that continues. What if in a years time there isn't a single person left in the UK that wants to leave the EU? are you seriously saying that because we had a referendum a long long time ago we should damn well proceed with it no matter what? If you are you are totally doing so for selfish reasons and remeber the will of the people is all important!We need to find a way out of this mess and it should be the public that decides. If you respect democracy and think I am wrong then what have you got to worry about?As for your joke image. I'm unclear if you think Corbyn and labour are a joke or that the figures quoted are a joke

You use lack of a 'sensible' response in my post yet you offer the absolutely ridiculous question based on there not being a single person in the UK wanting 'out' in a years time......  Pot, Kettle??

Now to me that is an indication of one who has not a single reasoned argument to support ones position.  So who is lacking in 'sense' now?

Oh and the joke is clearly aimed at all comments:

True blue voters turning to Corbyn....

Corbyn himself.....is a joke

Labour offering the best chance.......

https://s4.favim.com/610/141222/funny-happy-minions-Favim.com-2327704.jpg

The only thing Labour has to offer is to bankrupt the country again. Remember the last time.....leaving notes saying 'there's nothing left' in the Treasury. 

The stats about labour voters and the correlation with remainers and Posh safe until now Tory seats (Kensington) were clearly explained on the politics show this morning Roger, perhaps you didn't see it. I don't know if labour will bankrupt the country but I would guess Brexit is more likely to unless we don't leave or leave only in name.My question about what we should do about the referendum and Brexit if every single person in the UK supported remain was to try and tempt a sensible rational answer out of you but clearly that's not possible it seems. I'll try again one last time. If it could be proved without doubt that the split was say 65% remain and 35% leave would you or any of the hard core Brexiteers still think the original referendum result should be honoured and if so considering you harp on about democracy so much how would you justify that?All I'm saying is that is a possibility. It's going that way already. Why would we pursue something that is no longer the will of the majority?

No I didn't see the Politics show.

 

Ah so now it is down to 65/35 split.  What happened to the 100% of a short while ago......have there been that many changed their minds so quickly?  :-)  

[Barryd999]

pelmetman - 2017-10-15 10:11 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 10:05 PM

 

The stats about labour voters and the correlation with remainers and Posh safe until now Tory seats (Kensington) were clearly explained on the politics show this morning Roger, perhaps you didn't see it. I don't know if labour will bankrupt the country but I would guess Brexit is more likely to unless we don't leave or leave only in name.

 

 

Did the result of the referendum cause a recession? ;-) .......Nope.....

 

But I suspect the thought of Corbyn in charge will 8-) .........

 

 

Like I said though, monkeys could do a better job than this lot. I'm not saying corbyn and labour are the answer but it is a fact that many are turning from the Tories because they think labour will deliver a soft Brexit and have more chance if getting is a deal or indeed no Brexit at all if its starts to look as dire as many think it will be. That I think speaks volumes about the feeling within this nation right now about both Brexit and the way the Tory party is going.

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 10:32 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-10-15 10:11 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-10-15 10:05 PM

 

The stats about labour voters and the correlation with remainers and Posh safe until now Tory seats (Kensington) were clearly explained on the politics show this morning Roger, perhaps you didn't see it. I don't know if labour will bankrupt the country but I would guess Brexit is more likely to unless we don't leave or leave only in name.

 

 

Did the result of the referendum cause a recession? ;-) .......Nope.....

 

But I suspect the thought of Corbyn in charge will 8-) .........

 

 

Like I said though, monkeys could do a better job than this lot. I'm not saying corbyn and labour are the answer but it is a fact that many are turning from the Tories because they think labour will deliver a soft Brexit and have more chance if getting is a deal or indeed no Brexit at all if its starts to look as dire as many think it will be. That I think speaks volumes about the feeling within this nation right now about both Brexit and the way the Tory party is going.

 

You forget the Tories actually increased their vote at the last election ;-) .......its only because of our electoral system and using Trump style targeting that he did so well >:-) .......

 

 

[Barryd999]

As I suspected no sensible answer from Roger or any of the Brexiteers to any of my hyperthetical scenarios. The truth is you won't answer because even if you knew for definate there had been a huge sea change in favour of remaining or a soft Brexit you would fight a second referendum or call foul on any vote because your not interested in democracy like you have all been claiming for the past 16 months just your way or the highway.

 

Dave, as far as remember the Tories set out to increase their majority but actually ended up without one! They then had to bribe (with our money) a bunch of nutcases from Northern Ireland who don't believe in dinosaurs in a desperate and selfish attempt to cling to power. Anyone who thinks either Brexit or the Tories is going well is completely in denial.

 

 

[John52]

Barryd999 - 2017-10-16 7:27 AM

 

As I suspected no sensible answer from Roger or any of the Brexiteers to any of my hyperthetical scenarios. The truth is you won't answer because even if you knew for definate there had been a huge sea change in favour of remaining or a soft Brexit you would fight a second referendum or call foul on any vote because your not interested in democracy like you have all been claiming for the past 16 months just your way or the highway.

 

Dave, as far as remember the Tories set out to increase their majority but actually ended up without one! They then had to bribe (with our money) a bunch of nutcases from Northern Ireland who don't believe in dinosaurs in a desperate and selfish attempt to cling to power. Anyone who thinks either Brexit or the Tories is going well is completely in denial.

 

 

A rare breath of common sense on this forum, Well Said :-D

(Also makes a nice change from Ardent Monarchists claiming to be Democratic )