euroserv Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Keithl - 2018-01-11 7:54 PM There is a method which is even simpler than spark erosion, have a read of this recent thread on the Sprinter Forum... https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61029&highlight=acid+bolt And it can be done at home! Keith. That is fascinating. Thanks Keith. I have my doubts but have ordered a bag of the stuff and will be doing an experiment some time next week. This could revolutionise things if it is true! N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 euroserv - 2018-01-12 3:25 PM Keithl - 2018-01-11 7:54 PM There is a method which is even simpler than spark erosion, have a read of this recent thread on the Sprinter Forum... https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61029&highlight=acid+bolt And it can be done at home! Keith. That is fascinating. Thanks Keith. I have my doubts but have ordered a bag of the stuff and will be doing an experiment some time next week. This could revolutionise things if it is true! N Nick, Please, please let us know how you get on, hopefully with some photos as well :D as I am sure many on here would be pleased if there really was such a simple solution. Awaiting eagerly, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 The above seems to me a method as old as the romans, Using a so called left theaded tap. To get a broken bolt out of blind taphole by means of drilling a smaller hole in the remaing bolt and tap left thread in it. some times you will be lucky, sometimes not at all. that is life.Heating up is a another way, but not suitable for in car repair. Ask bosch service how to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just a small update on this topic. I decided today to remove the injector securing bolts from my early 2016 built X290, and grease them as a preventative measure. All four bolts came out easily, but all were already showing signs of corrosion despite having an engine cover fitted, and one in particular had swarf in the threads when removed. I have greased them with ceramic grease as per Nick's suggestion, and I also sprayed a generous dose of penetrating oil into the wells around the injectors themselves. I think I may repeat this annually and hopefully it will prevent any possibility of serious problems should the need for injector replacement ever arise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Don't know if it's possible in this situation but we used to use liquid nitrogen to remove jammed die's in extruding machines,"but be very careful if using it !" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Very interesting opposite to heating. I will check my extruding specialists contacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Deneb - 2018-01-30 4:34 PM Just a small update on this topic. I decided today to remove the injector securing bolts from my early 2016 built X290, and grease them as a preventative measure. All four bolts came out easily, but all were already showing signs of corrosion despite having an engine cover fitted, and one in particular had swarf in the threads when removed. I have greased them with ceramic grease as per Nick's suggestion, and I also sprayed a generous dose of penetrating oil into the wells around the injectors themselves. I think I may repeat this annually and hopefully it will prevent any possibility of serious problems should the need for injector replacement ever arise. What torque setting did you use for the securing bolts, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Deneb - 2018-01-30 4:34 PM and one in particular had swarf in the threads when removed. My worry with this is that it's not swarf, it's part of thread ripped out by removing bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (^) Best DIY penetrating fluid.........50/50 ATF and Acetone in an old atomiser spray bottle..........Shake well before use. Check the web. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 teflon2 - 2018-01-30 6:58 PM Don't know if it's possible in this situation but we used to use liquid nitrogen to remove jammed die's in extruding machines,"but be very careful if using it !" This is an excellent point. I have been using freezing just as much as heating for removing screws for a number of years. I also don't like pressing hub bearings in with too much force and tend to chuck the bearing in the freezer for an hour and only gently heat the hub. Works great! With the injector screws though it is a matter of getting the engine as hot as possible after soaking in the freeing agent that we use and hope for the best. If they are stuck they are mechanically seized and not much is going to shift them. Breakage is almost inevitable. PS. I am doing science experiments at the moment. No breakthroughs yet but some very positive signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-31 9:31 AM Deneb - 2018-01-30 4:34 PM Just a small update on this topic. I decided today to remove the injector securing bolts from my early 2016 built X290, and grease them as a preventative measure. All four bolts came out easily, but all were already showing signs of corrosion despite having an engine cover fitted, and one in particular had swarf in the threads when removed. I have greased them with ceramic grease as per Nick's suggestion, and I also sprayed a generous dose of penetrating oil into the wells around the injectors themselves. I think I may repeat this annually and hopefully it will prevent any possibility of serious problems should the need for injector replacement ever arise. What torque setting did you use for the securing bolts, please? Factory spec is 28 Nm or 29 Nm depending on whether you rely on the Fiat or Iveco manuals (same engine). I reduced this to 21 Nm after greasing the bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 colin - 2018-01-31 9:54 AM Deneb - 2018-01-30 4:34 PM and one in particular had swarf in the threads when removed. My worry with this is that it's not swarf, it's part of thread ripped out by removing bolt. Swarf was probably not the right word. It was small flakes of rust, easily removed and the threads appeared intact after easily cleaning the corrosion off with a wire brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Deneb - 2018-01-31 1:04 PM Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-31 9:31 AM What torque setting did you use for the securing bolts, please? Factory spec is 28 Nm or 29 Nm depending on whether you rely on the Fiat or Iveco manuals (same engine). I reduced this to 21 Nm after greasing the bolts. OK - thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 What is the material of the tapholes ? What is the material of the bolt. In that case you can calculate What says fiat and their sub supplier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laika.brian Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I have been reading the threads and while I am hoping that removing injectors is a long long long way off for us, I have been spraying a graphite base lubricant on periodically. Our unit is 07 which did not have an engine cover and also suffered with the poorly fitted scuttle when we took ownership, so lots of water has gathered on the engine head over the past 9 years , I have bonded / sealed the scuttle also installed good drain above the engine ECU on the scuttle and added a flap under the middle of the scuttle to direct water which still might get through the middle joint down to the front over the engine oh and added an engine cover. Now to the injector yoke retaining bolts, In general I have found that if a bolt is rusted in and head breaks when attempting to remove it the use of left hand thread tap only breaks in the bolt while expanding the bolt and thus making it tighter I have in the past placed a washer ( little smaller than the bolt) over the bolt then built up some weld on the broken bolt through the middle of the washer this allows the weld only on the top of the broken bolt , Then I have welded a nut on ( welding through the middle of the nut) put on a socket and screwed out the bolt. I wonder if any of the chaps whom are performing these tasks on a regular basis have tried this approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Laika.brian - 2018-01-31 11:28 PM Now to the injector yoke retaining bolts, In general I have found that if a bolt is rusted in and head breaks when attempting to remove it the use of left hand thread tap only breaks in the bolt while expanding the bolt and thus making it tighter I'm guessing you mean 'easyout' or similar, having to use one is in itself a failure in my line of work, but the mistake many make is using the biggest they can fit when they should be using the smallest that will do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 aandy - 2018-01-08 10:35 AM Thanks. Mine has the cover shown in the link below. I assume that is the one you refer to? http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/get-attachment.asp?attachmentid=9547 We're taking delivery of X290 shortly. Can I ask how this cover is removed? On my X250 on right hand side of cover it looks like there's a lug/clip. I don't want to simply tug it if others know how it's taken off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 There are two clips on a plastic bracket at the rear offside corner of the engine cover, supporting the two pipes that you can see in the upper left of the photo. These open by prising them apart and you can carefully move the pipes free of the bracket. Then give the plastic cover a sharp tug upwards at the offside edge (left in the photo or as you face the engine compartment) to free it from the pop-in fixing, followed by another sharp tug up and to the left (again as facing the engine compartment) to free the second pop-in fixing at the right edge. They are ball and socket type fittings. Much easier to do than explain! To replace, it is easiest to get the right hand fitting located first (again as looking at the photo) then lower the cover so that the oil filler cap is centrally located on the cover hole, and the left (outer) side should push down onto its fixing. Reposition the two pipes in the bracket and push the pipe clips back together until they clip in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Deneb - 2018-02-04 4:39 PM There are two clips on a plastic bracket at the rear offside corner of the engine cover, supporting the two pipes that you can see in the upper left of the photo. These open by prising them apart and you can carefully move the pipes free of the bracket. Then give the plastic cover a sharp tug upwards at the offside edge (left in the photo or as you face the engine compartment) to free it from the pop-in fixing, followed by another sharp tug up and to the left (again as facing the engine compartment) to free the second pop-in fixing at the right edge. They are ball and socket type fittings. Much easier to do than explain! To replace, it is easiest to get the right hand fitting located first (again as looking at the photo) then lower the cover so that the oil filler cap is centrally located on the cover hole, and the left (outer) side should push down onto its fixing. Reposition the two pipes in the bracket and push the pipe clips back together until they clip in place. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcvitoman Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 Hello again. Well after a complete fall out with the original garage whose diagnosis was illogical to me, I eventually got the van transported to a head specialist. His diagnostic machine said the timing was out implying a broken belt but he had so much work on he couldn't start until early Feb. Latest news is that the cam belt tensioner had collapsed and so the belt has come off - not great as I was doing 50mph at the time... So injector bolts all sheared off but all injectors have now been removed without too much effort. Water ingress problem has seized cam carrier in place but that too has been removed without breakage. Not surprisingly most of the valves are bent and various bits need replacing before new cam belt, water pump etc get put on. Really cross with original garage who told me they had it running on 3 cylinders (how is this possible) and suggested new injectors would fix the problem?! One other question for you all, is there a fix to stop the water ingress which can be purchased to fit when it all goes back together? Looks like I'll need to keep the van for a while to get my money's worth out of this repair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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