Mike Brooks 670 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Hi All My first post ! Have a 2017 Ducato 130 bhp manual ,8000 miles . When reversing on to a pitch with an incline I get juddering . No juddering when on level ground ,no problem when moving forward level or incline ! Has been to Fiat Professional three times ,even had Fiat area engineer drive it BUT the day he arrived in Dec ,we had 8 ins of snow so couldnt test in reverse up a slope! ! Quess what .....no fault found ! Any ideas ..... Thanks Mike . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Mike. Before forum members comment it might be useful to point out that you enquired about the juddering problem via MMM magazine’s “Tech help!” columns and your enquiry and replies from MMM consultants Nick Fisher and Terry Acreman were published on Page 190 of the most recent issue (March 2018) of the magazine. There is nothing in the "Tech help!” article, nor in your forum posting above, to identify the make and model of motorhome you own, but that information may be relevant. Nick mentioned that motorhome conversions with a particularly long body may have this sort of problem if the vehicle has front-wheel-drive. Nick also mentions that a dual-mass flywheel (DMF) is fitted to all Euro 6 Ducatos (I assume yours Ducato has a Euro 6 motor?) which might amplify a juddering issue, or perhaps your vehicle’s DMF might be faulty. The reality is that reversing a FWD motorhome slowly up an incline will inevitable produce some mechanical reaction, and the amount of reaction will depend on how steep the slope is, how slowly the vehicle is moving and how the driver is balancing accelerator against clutch. You say in your MMM enquiry “When reversing up an incline, I get quite pronounced juddering...”. If this happens when you are trying to reverse slowly up a steepish slope and at minimum low engine-revs, I would not be at all surprised if some ‘juddering' occurred. However, if the slope were not steep, and you were moving reasonably quickly and/or had the motor turning over reasonably fast, I’d think something was amiss if violent juddering resulted. I believe you’ll have to press Fiat for another test on a day when the weather is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-02-05 6:03 PM I believe you’ll have to press Fiat for another test on a day when the weather is better. Exactly what I was going to suggest! Or if not video the juddering happening and pass to your Fiat Professional garage for comment. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brooks 670 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Hi Derek Thanks for your reply . I didn't know my issue was going to be in the latest MMM until it popped through my letter box . The MMM tech dept comments were only 80% up to date as I had replied to Terry before going to print . He said the forum was the quickest way to get feed back . Can I ask you ,are you saying are you getting juddering always when reversing up an incline or only now and again depending how steep ? Never in 50 yrs of driving have I had to replace a clutch ,last Sept , on a steepish pitch I could begin to smell the clutch . Thanks Mike . PS I have an Adria 670 SL Platinum . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 hi mike i have a 2017 130 and as yet i have not noticed any judder in reverse but saying that i cant remember any kind of judder going up on the chocs i will say though that the gearbox is nearly as noisy going backwards as the old one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Mike Brooks 670 - 2018-02-05 6:51 PM Hi Derek Thanks for your reply . I didn't know my issue was going to be in the latest MMM until it popped through my letter box . The MMM tech dept comments were only 80% up to date as I had replied to Terry before going to print . He said the forum was the quickest way to get feed back . Can I ask you ,are you saying are you getting juddering always when reversing up an incline or only now and again depending how steep ? Never in 50 yrs of driving have I had to replace a clutch ,last Sept , on a steepish pitch I could begin to smell the clutch . Thanks Mike . PS I have an Adria 670 SL Platinum . Your 2017 Adria Matrix 670 SL Platinum model is a good deal longer and heavier than my 2015 Rapido 640F that has a different motor (Euro 5 150hp as opposed to your Euro 6 130hp). My Rapido also has 15”-diameter wheels, whereas (I believe) yours has 16”-diameter wheels and (if that’s correct) will have significantly higher overall gearing as a consequence. I’ve never attempted to provoke my Rapido when reversing to see at what point it would start to ‘judder', but I’m sure it would if I found a steep enough slope and tried to back up it slowly enough and at low enough revs. Certainly, with my previous Ford Transit-based Hobby, I used to make every effort to avoid reversing up a steep incline as the vehicle had a high reverse-gear ratio, a dual-mass flywheel and a prone-to-stall motor. The only time I was forced into doing it, there was a lot of vibration with the exhaust system banging about savagely and within seconds the clutch began to smell. This late-2017 forum thread discussed a similar issue http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Euro-6-and-clutch-judder-slipping-in-reverse/48057/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brooks 670 Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 Many thanks Derek ,the link was very helpful . At least it makes me feel I was not dreaming it ! I wonder if Fiat uk are aware of this forum and this issue ,perhaps they are but keeping their head down ! Regards Mike . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Fiat(UK) were certainly aware of this forum in 2008 (when the infamous X250 juddering-in-reverse fiasco was in full swing) as I remember Andy Stothert making an ‘injudicious' remark here about a Fiat staff member and Fiat complaining to Warners about this. The user-account of forum-member “machra” (who asked about juddering in October 2017) now seems to be ‘dead’ and there was no follow-up from him about whether he progressed the issue with Fiat and, if so, what the result was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebeaches Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I've got a so-called Euro 5+ Ducato-based 6.4m PVC with 130hp engine and comfortmatic gearbox, 3,500kg. It's covered 7,500 miles. Last summer, staying at a ski lodge in Austria, access was tricky and required reversing up a narrow steep incline for about 25-30 yards. And it did indeed judder and I could smell the clutch when I was parking. Because we were there for a week, I got into the habit of taking something of a run at it - ie going faster. But it was a case of deciding which was the lesser of 2 evils - a bit of a smell and judder from the clutch, or the risk of hitting something in my haste. *-) No idea if it has shortened the life of the clutch - I guess only time will tell? :-S Don't normally have any difficulty getting up on to the Milenco levelling ramps however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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