which van conversion

[MacMad]

Thanks everyone for the replies to my posting about the USA and apologies for not replying sooner.

 

Having just returned from an extended tour of China and New Zealand

(brilliant) my wife had the misfortune to be rushed to hospital where she spent four weeks in recovery so consequently have just got around to posting this reply.

 

Her illness was nothing to do with the China trip!

 

Her health problems have dashed our plans for the USA as she cannot now get suitable health cover. And we know from previous visits to the States that this is absolutely essential!!

 

Anyway, the point is we are now in the market for a new, or possibly newish motorhome We are already half-way there in deciding what we want (high top van conversion) but have no idea as to which model.

 

We are retired and living up in Cumbria. Most of the time we will be using the van for short breaks up to Scotland, the Borders and occasionally perhaps a summer trip to Scandinavia or France. We will be using sites most of the time and there are only the two of us.

 

We have read the many threads on this site which (together with MMM) really is a fantastic resource for someone in our position, so well done all you regular contributors, you are doing a great job!

 

Firstly, must say that most of my thoughts coincide with Don Madge's excellent piece on "downsizing" to a van conversion from a coachbuilt.

 

I would be happy with a "basic" conversion. Powerful engine, preferably automatic, easy to clean/well insulated/ good, well thought out basic design, without loads of uneccessary frills (which also bump up the price!). As an old "backpacker" I find it hilarious to come across conversions with cocktail cabinets etc but each to his own!

 

I had more or less decided on the new Auto-Sleepers Transit based Duetto as I really like the basic layout and the quality looks excellent (although I am no expert-it just looks "right"), but recently we have had the new Renault and Fiat base models, both of which look superb - and both offer a pan-European backup service which would be highly desirable if we decide to go across the Channel.

 

Anyway, would love feedback from the "panel" on the following points....

 

Is it practical to use a standard (i.e. approx 6metre) van as an everyday vehicle, bearing in mind I live in a rural area, am retired, and do about 10,000 miles a year, and can it be parked in "normal" car parks or is it really essential to keep a separate car. Parking at home is not a problem.

 

Anyone like to recommend\not recommend a particular van conversion?

 

Trigano Tribute seems good value on paper. Haven't seen one in the flesh, anyone got one/had one?

 

Sea Campers are available from Germany at ridiculously low prices. Of course these are LHD, anyone gone down this route? Can they really be of decent quality at this price?

 

Anyone recommened a dealer/direct manufacturer they have had (good)dealings with...... I suppose deep down I would prefer to go direct to someone who builds a quality well engineered motorhome in the UK (or should it be campervan) at a resonable price, someone I can always contact if problems arise or additional info is required - would prefer to go direct than give cash to an (often useless) "middle-man".

 

Look forward to receiving feedback.....

 

macmad

 

 

 

 

[howie]

Hi Macmad. Earlier this year mmm carried out a survey asking panel van conversions owners for their views and opinions on the vans they owned. Not sure when this will be published, but it should be soon, and will give you a good idea of the vans available and what might suit your particular requirements.

[tp002c784tp002c784tp]

Hi MacMad

I agree with you desiring a Renault, I have a Lunar Telstar with a Master as the base vehicle and I find they are a delight to drive and economic, But I can not understand you wanting a panel van some of the prices the want for these vans are quite high for what you get, I think that a coach built is much better insulated than a van and you get much more comfort, You can also buy quite a few coachbuilt vehicles in the 6metre length although mine is a little longer than that I can still park in a supermarket car park

I know that quite a few members of this site will disagree with some of my views, but I have owned both in my many years of Motorhoming and I know which one I prefer

 

Terry (lol)

[MacMad]

Thanks Howie will look out for that in MMM.

 

Terry, reason I have settled on a panel van is that I really want just one vehicle for both leisure and everyday use. Seems to me that a panel van is better than coachbuilt for this, (easy to manouever/park/service/drive). Also like idea of much better weatherproofing of van i.e. no seams to leak.

 

Master base is definitely one that I will consider and have a test drive. One dealer has offered a very good deal on a fiat based van (old model) but after reading reviews of the "new" base units the old fiat is now so far behind (in technical terms) that I am definitely buying one of the new models.

 

I suspect that in three/four years time the "old" fiat base models will be hard to sell.

[oorgiz]

Hi Macmad, I couldn't agree more on your thoughts about a panel van being a resonable everyday vehicle/m/home. As I'm sure you have probably figured out, that almost any modern van is hard to fault these days, its all down to personal choice, having owned 7 sprinters since '97 in all engine varients I find them hard to beat, the next guy in the line may think differently.

The main benefits of a panel van v's coachbuilt is in my opinion, better fuel consumption and parking ability and its a dam sight easier to keep a panel van warm during winter driving (check previous threads) which will be the case if its your everyday motor.

The good thing about choosing a panel van is that you can hire almost any model (with a bit of shoping around in hire companies) to see what engine /model you realy like before you get into the position of choosing a converters product fully fitted.

Knowing what the van will be like is half the battle.

 

best of luck and do keep us all informed (I think it safe to say most people on this forum are nosy b"*:ers when it comes to other peoples vans)

 

oorgiz

[Mel B]

If you really want an automatic then this is going to limit what you can get as there are not many van conversions around with auto transmission I'm afraid.

 

Trigano - we've seen it in the flesh since it first came out as a new model a few years ago, originally it was good value but the quality for some of the conversion was a bit suspect, the more recent models seem to be much better put together. Make sure you have a good look at whatever you are seriously interested in, especially in how it is put/screwed together, some look great but the quality is rubbish.

[MacMad]

Hi Oorgiz,

 

thanks for your input....yes mercs are superb no doubt about it. Did you buy these vans as campervans or were they use d in a business capacity?

 

Is your current merc a campervan and if so what is it and what do you think of it?

 

macmad

[MacMad]

Hi Mel,

 

oooh! didn't realize the situation re automatics. Was just thinking that in traffic jams an automatic would be so useful!

 

Still not too old (just) to manage a manual change however!

 

macmad

 

p.s. Mel B / Mel E....any connection?

[oorgiz]

Hi Macmad

Unfortunatly my finances couldn't stretch to a Merc Hymer so as you will no doubt see from my other post tonight I've got a Fiat (Ha). My own Mercs were from my light haulage business, as I said I had them all from 308 -316 and all models in between, its fair to say they all earned their corn with a high milage job but if looked after they rarely let me down (apart from an LPG model)

If I had the cash today I would buy the new sprinter panel van conversion from Devon, great engine and even a good auto box (right up your street).

 

oorgiz

[twooks]

Hi Macmad, we have had two hitops now - having downsized from an A class -[change of lifestyle]. Use it as my main vehicle but OH does have a car.

I know it's not exactly on your doorstep, but suggest you have a look at Nu-Venture at Wigan.

Just to confuse there are two of them, I believe the original firm was 2 brothers who decided to develop vans in different way

  Nu Venture Motorhomes - 0.6 miles W - Unit 2, Seven Stars Rd, Wallgate, Wigan, WN3 5AT - 01942 494 090
Nu Venture Campus - 1.6 miles NE - Unit 1a, Kirkless Industrial Estate, Cale Lane, Aspull, Wigan, WN2 1HF - 01942 238 560

[Cattwg]

Hi Macmad,

We have been running a Devon Conversions, 'Monte Carlo' for about two years. It is based on the Renault Master, 2.8TD panel van and it's our sole vehicle. It is 5.88m x 1.99m x 2.67m high (approx 19.5ft x 6.5ft x 8.66ft).

We usually shop at supermarkets and other out-of-town stores so do not find parking a problem. However I must admit that trying to park in the city is problematic.

We like to explore nooks and crannies (home and abroad) and I find the narrow width beneficial.

This particular conversion is roomy enough to allow the bed to be left down whilst travelling, or whilst parked up for a period - a real boon as far as I am concerned!

When touring (and this accounts for about two thirds of our annual mileage) we average 32mpg. I am not too concerned about the mpg for daily use as I consider that any extra cost here is far outweighed by the savings made through not running a second vehicle.

Regards Cattwg

 

[twooks]

know someone who used to work for Devon, build quality may be suspect, and we were not impressed by their customer care at a show when we were looking to change our van.

[MacMad]

Hi Twooks,

 

thanks for your input. Will look at both sites. I have seen these advertised in MMM.

 

Which van do you own and are you happy with it?

 

macmad

[MacMad]

Hi Cattwg,

 

thanks for your help. Fortunately we are lucky (very) to live in Cumbria and would you believe that we can virtually park in any of the surrounding towns without problems! (but not in the lake district proper).

 

32mpg would be ok by me as I would be giving up my car which only does 35 anyway!

 

Renault Master seems to be very popular with owners so will be trying one in due course. Where are Devons situated?

 

macmad

[Clive]

Renault Master with the 3 litre engine fly's rather briskly and has a solid reputation.

 

Don,t forget the latest Mercedes and VW bases though. If its going to be your one and only main vehicle then the refinements that come with the chain cam 5 cylinder Merc engine and all its attendant bits does make a rather nice smooth ride compared with the 4 cylinder work horses although much improved used by the others.

 

Also Mercedes probably has the best world wide service network of the lot.

 

Its your money.

 

Hope all is well now

 

Good luck

 

C.

 

 

 

[twooks]

We had a Swift Mondial, on Fiat 1.9td; loved the van layout, similar to AS Symphony and a shorter version of the Duetto - which we also looked at. Like the Duetto it had transverse /longitude  double bed option - so we had some lee way on getting level, plus 'bathroom' ie you could close the door on the loo and had brill drying area for wet clothes - a frequent problem -. We had it for 6 years and did about 40k [we were both working for much of that time] The only reason we sold it was the engine size - you couldn't cruise in comfort down motorways for long or for much above 50 -55; and there are times when you need to. Great on short runs - but I suppose that's what they are built for; dealer customer care - abysmal.

We test drove a few base vehicles, and liked the VW T4 - went for 2.5 tdi 103bhp [best available bhp in UK at that time]. It is nice to drive, we've had this for nearly 5 years and have done the full mix, short runs, long leisurely runs [get about 40mpg] and have slogged it on Motorways, Autoroutes and Autobahns, no problem !! Done about 42k.

We opted for a Bilbo conversion, my only reservation with using them is that they are based south of London and a pain to get to if needed. They were supposed to be setting up an 'outstation' at Crewe - VW dealership - which is were we bought ours, but we were not as impressed with the dealers as we have been in our dealings with Bilbo. I think that if Nu Venture had branched out as they now have at the time we were looking we would've given them careful consideration.

Conversion - has 4 belted seats, and loads of storage but only single beds - porta potti pulls out - so we've lost our drying area. Love the decor, and the cooking facilities - [hob and grill/warmer oven] and the compressor fridge - more efficient and roomier than usual option.

Also had the option of colour, sick to death of the usual white. It is only 2.4 metres high, still can't get under height barriers but looks better imo, and not as vulnerable to winds. Outwardly doesn't look like a camper, no aerial and have car style sun roof rather than heki type so doesn't stick up.

hth, anything else - let me know.

[twooks]

PS - Devon conversions also seem to be split, one in Devon one in County Durham. We checked out the one in Durham before they moved to their current site at Ferryhill and found them very helpful; but tried to have a detailed chat at a show when we were looking to buy our latest van and they had a 'take it or leave it attitude' which put us off, and an unbelievably convoluted method to make up the beds.

Bed make up is an important factor in choosing your hitop conversion, you don't have much room to manoeuvre. Both the hitops we had were easy to convert - in the Mondial the transverse double was easy and had the advantage of not requiring us to carry additional cushions to fill in the gaps. I strongly recommend you avoid having to have extra cushions to make the bed, they get in the way and take up valuable storage space. The Bilbo is the easiest yet, and the 'tradional VW' rock n roll doubles are also very easy to set up.

If you are getting a small van, make sure that everything you carry has at least two uses, more if possible.

[Mel E]

MacMad,

 

Van conversions are definitely the way to go for you. Some thoughts on the posts so far:

 

1. Terry is clearly in favour of coachbuilts. But van conversions, if well done, are at least as well insulated, if not better - ours certainly is. And van conversions seem expensive compared with the cheaper coachbuilts because they are more complex to build and require greater skills. But, like everything else, the price reflects on the second-hand price.

 

2. The Renault Master is quite brilliant. But the 3 litre engine is no longer available, replaced by the standard 2.5 litre tuned to give much the same hp and torque. But it is a big van - 5.9 metres long. If you only want a motorhome for mostly local trips and short stays, it would be better to try a Renault Trafic sized van conversion.

 

3. If you are buying new, all the popular makes of van (except, the Sevel chassis) have auto or clutchless gearboxes. The Renault Master/Vauhall/Opel Movano/Nissan Interstar, Transit, Merc/VW all certainly have - and they are not a lot extra in cost and lose not much in mpg. The Sevel will have an auto option soon.

 

4. Where to buy. The Trigano and Sea series are both Italian built and both available in RHD as well as LHD. They are built to a price and, for my money, have only average build quality and, especially with the Trigano, some space wasting layouts - not what you need in a van with already limited space. Trigano is Europe's largest motorhome builder owning many other companies including CI, Roller, Chausson, Autostar, Benimar, Euomobil. Sea are a big Italian Group owning Elnagh, Mobilvetta, Joint and others. Other Continental vans include Weinsberg, Possl (both German - Possl also build the Dethleff's van conversion for them) and Moncayo (Spanish). The best value UK ones are from Devon in Feryhill, Co Durham and the Autosleeper range. They build enough to have different layouts and to provide reasonable after-sales. Conversions from Timberland, IH and other smaller converters tend to be extremely expensive (£40K upwards), and my own inspection of their products does not suggest a comensurately higher build quality. But they'd doubtless argue with my opnion on this!

 

I suggest a visit to the NEC Show in mid-February to 'suss out' all the options.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Mel E

====

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Only problem with vans are that its near enough impossible to adequately winterise/insulate and ventilate a tin box. It all depends on the type of camping you do but even in summer vans are far to hot.

 

I would think you would be better served and far more comfortable in a small coachbuilt and they offer better storage as well

 

[Guest starspirit]

Bilbo's at South Godstone and Murvi at Ivybridge both have excellent reputations, will build you a van to your own design and trade direct not via a dealer.

Mind you direct has it's problems if you are a long way from the factory so choosing local might make more sense.

There are a host of smaller converters who will also build to order or off the peg.

One newcomer whose product we saw at Shepton last week is Wildex but I can't recall where they are based, however they seemed good vfm and were enthusiastic about their products. They seem to build on good used vans.

[MacMad]

Thanks all for the latest excellent feedback since my last reply.

 

So far have had a few private memos also and replies seem to break down into two camps.

 

Those who believe that a small coach built is better value and more comfortable than a van conversion, and those who prefer the van conversion for ease of driving/parking etc.

 

Seems to me that the perfect solution will never exist and that really I have two ideal choices.

 

Either buy a van, accept the slightly limited space but be able to use it as a sole vehicle or buy a larger coachbuilt for the extra space and comfort and run a small car for everyday use....

 

I am still inclined to go with the van conversion.....

 

As Mel says, a visit to the Manchester show would be well worthwhile, one thing I have definitely decided is that I shall be buying in the UK from a British manufacturer.

 

I intend to visit Devon"s in Ferryhill as this is only 40 miles from where I live and the other manufacturer on my shortlist is Auto-Sleepers. Devon customers seem to be impressed with their vans and Auto Sleepers appear to have a strong "following".

 

Bilbo and Murvi are too far away to be practical and in any case Murvi would too expensive for what I want.

 

May well look also at Nu-Venture as recommened by a few folk.

 

Anyway, next week will be visiting Todds etc to get a feel for all types/specs and then onto Devons and finally a look at the Manchester show.

 

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to give valuable advice...

 

macmad

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mel B]

MacMad - 2007-01-18 8:47 PM

p.s. Mel B / Mel E....any connection?

 

Nope, I'm the good looking female type although I'm not sure if Mel E likes to wear a skirt every now and again .... 8-)

 

As regards automatics, you'll probably find they are more expensive as well than their manual counterparts. Must agree though that you might want to look at small coachbuilts as well, it really depends on exactly how you intend to use it here and for holidays as well as storage space etc, but there are some lovely little coachbuilts around, both new and second hand.

[Mel E]

Mel B,

 

I couldn't possibly comment on the grounds . . . . .

 

Everyone else (that's all you who don't make impolite suggestions . . .),

 

As for coach built versus van, we've had both a small coachbuilt and a large A class and now have a van. Wish I'd learned earlier - the van is so much better. There isn't a town in Europe, however old or small, that white van man can't get into. So we can too - and often couldn't with the coachbuilts - been stuck (literally) in narrow streets in Benidorm and Jerez among others.

 

And this insulation thing is simply wrong. We have thicker insualtion in our van than we had in either A Class coachbuilts. And it is fully winterised. Yes it gets hot inside in summer when it's 30+ under blazing sun outside, but so do coachbuilts. And it's cool when the sun sets - with fan assisted cooling.

 

And it's got loads of storage, 'cos that's how we designed it.

 

The G-Mex show in Manchester I found rather disappointing when I went a couple of years ago. Make it the NEC Show in Birmingham in late February, which has much more to see.

[twooks]

If you are going to Todds, don't forget to check with Marquis at Preston, apart from anything else the food there is excellent. Marquis also have their 'own' brand of conversions.  You could also try Barrons at Coppull, off the A49 not far from Todds.

The NEC is the show you want - and it is Birmingham not Manchester. Make sure you get them to show you how everything works, all storage options, bed arrangements, different seating arrangements - how easy is to go from driving to lounging to eating to sleeping.

One advantage of our van conversion - [bilbo Nektar] is that they take a VW multivan and change the interior - the windows are as fitted by VW and are supposed to have a better seal as a result.

[twooks]

ps - if you are going to look small coachbuilds I suggest you check that they have sufficient weight allowance for all your kit. Of course this warning applies to any van but the hitop conversions don't seem to struggle quite as much.