howie Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 JudgeMental - 2007-01-19 3:37 PM Only problem with vans are that its near enough impossible to adequately winterise/insulate and ventilate a tin box. It all depends on the type of camping you do but even in summer vans are far to hot. I would think you would be better served and far more comfortable in a small coachbuilt and they offer better storage as well I agree with Mel E on this JM and find my current van coversion far better insulated than previous coachbuilts we have owned. Through experience I also have a lot more confidence with regard to water ingress, and while you can buy coachbuilts of a similar size , from a security point of view MacMad may be thinking along the same lines as myself and others that v.c.s do not draw the same attention as a coachbuilt. One other thing that influenced my choice is that in the event of body damage my present van will be repaired in a week or two, and this has sadly not been the case with alloy or grp in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Hi Macmad, Many panel van and small coachbuilt conversions have very limited space once the bed is made up. However as mentioned in my other post, the Monte Carlo allows for the bed to remain up, with ample space left in the mid and rear areas of the 'van for cooking, eating, sitting etc. To my mind this is a real advantage, as having to make up the bed every night is one of my pet hates - or am I just getting lazy in my middle age? This conversion has the advantages of a fixed bed type, without the fixed bit - if that makes sense. Another advantage of a panel van is the large side door (bear in mind that a factory high top has a 6ft door) this allows for versatility. We have just saved £67 in delivery charges after purchasing furniture and white goods! Incidently MMM carried a test report on the Devon Conversions 'Monaco' (their fixed bed version) November 2005. I believe Devon Conversions originated in Devon and at some point the name was sold and moved to the North. We do a lot of touring on the Continent, often moving on after spending just one or two nights at a place. We find that the Monte Carlo suits us well and we are very happy with it - but as ever each to his own. I wish you well in your quest. Its not easy and the £££££'s are horrendous. Regards Cattwg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 One thing that no-one has mentioned so far is the 'small print' that is appearing on many Public car park boards, ie No Caravans or Campervans, no lorries or vans over 1.5 tonnes. Using any sort of conversion as a sole means of transport is getting a bit harder. It seems that this is cheaper than putting up a height barrier (Grrrrr, down boy !) and also more lucrative as the unsuspecting fall into the trap. I run a small Coachbuilt and an 'Ageing Rav4 but 'hanker' after a van conversion(as a sole means of transport). But the latest car park problems are making me think twice before i take the plunge. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacMad Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Oooops.... yes, I am going to Birmingham show (NEC) as suggested by Mel E not Manchester...errrrrr....yet another "senior moment"! Yes Howie, one of the things I had given some thought to was water ingress as reading previous threads and various magazine articles over the years this can be a real pain and it's amazing how many dealers have coach builts for sale where "telltale" signs of water ingress are apparent. I'm 99% certain to go for a van for that reason and various others. Cattwg the Devon vans on the new Renault base look to have a good balance of quality/price so they are definitely on my list. (Provence model), Also Howie makes a good point about repairing a panel van, much easier than a coach built. Panel vans are simply much stronger and probably easier to maintain (I would think!). It was mentioned earlier in the thread that it was worth hiring different vans for a "trial run". Whilst out shopping today we took a wrong turn and in the process passed a van hire garage with a new Sevel (Peugeot model) and Renault Master vans for hire - is that a sign or what! Look out for my road test in due course! macmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I have replied your pm but will also mention here, give the Adria Twin a looking over, others have similair layout, but not many have as big a bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacMad Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Had a pm from a gent who is buying a LHD van from this site. http://www.motorhome-discount.de/ How come this van is only 29000 euros +vat complete with loads of "extras"? The model is called "LIVINGSTON" and you have to click on this link to get the panel van up onto the screen. Looks like a Trigano Tribute to me (re-badged?) No doubt Mel B can advise on this van. (I'll still be sticking to a UK manufacturer - but it does make you think about prices and value for money! macmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacMad Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Sorry Mel B, I meant Mel E. Another senior moment! macmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Hi Macmad, So as not to give a blinkered view. If you are seriously considering the Devons make sure you are happy with the sitting/lounging arrangements. Nothing is perfect and to my mind this is the one area that could be improved on the Monte Carlo. If considering the Trigano Tribute, ask the salesman to make up the bed from inside the van. When we asked the poor chap failed! Apologies to any happy Tribute owners. Regards Cattwg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacMad Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Hi Cattwg, the power of the internet....your comment about making up a bed was also mentioned also by someone else earlier in the thread. This is something which I would never have dreamed of asking. I would have assumed that after making motorhomes for many years any manufacturer worth his salt would have a reliable, simple and effective method of producing a comfortable bed...just shows you cannot take anything for granted. I'll be watching out for this along with all the other tips I am receiving... macmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacMad Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Question for Mel E if he is about... you mentioned you were happy with your master based van but didn't mention the manufacturer. I assume re-reading your post that it was a Devon model? Thinking on from there it rang a bell. Did you do a test on this vehicle in MMM? Unfortunately I do not keep copies of the mag after a couple of months so cannot look it up.... macmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Mel. E's Master is a bespoke Mel designed and project managed van. So I suppose its called a "Melmobile". Previous to this Mel had an A class. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Clive - 2007-01-19 10:35 PM Mel. E's Master is a bespoke Mel designed and project managed van. So I suppose its called a "Melmobile". Previous to this Mel had an A class. Hope that helps. Quite right Clive. Mel did design and build his own particular van which is another option MM might like to consider. So far the emphasis has mostly been on the base vehicle, but at this stage I think it would be better for him to concentrate his mind on the layout and what constitutes the essential things he wants or what he can do without. This may also help him with the choice of van, as if he plans a transverse bed this might rule out narrower vans such as Transits or Mercs for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 MacMad - 2007-01-19 8:15 PM Had a pm from a gent who is buying a LHD van from this site. http://www.motorhome-discount.de/ How come this van is only 29000 euros +vat complete with loads of "extras"? The model is called "LIVINGSTON" and you have to click on this link to get the panel van up onto the screen. Looks like a Trigano Tribute to me (re-badged?) No doubt Mel B can advise on this van. (I'll still be sticking to a UK manufacturer - but it does make you think about prices and value for money! macmad Basically, correct. Can't remember which bit of the Trigano group it comes from, but the Tribute is now more or less only available as such within the UK, similar vans being sold in Europe under the logo of all the Trigano group brands.What I would say, is check the cooking and fridge arrangements on most of these conversions. Most of the fridges are 60-70 litres, which is quite small, and most have 2 burner hobs only. If an oven has been added to "UKise" the van, check for adequate kitchen storage. The 2007 Adria Twin looks very good, and seems to have an excellent bed, but suffers the above shortcomings.Further quick thought, if the bed is transverse, get it put up, climb onto it, lie down full stretch, and just check it is, actually, long enough to sleep in comfortably. These vans are only just wide enough to take a transverse bed so, if you're more than about 5' 10", you may find it too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Hi Brian. I take it we are talking about the Fiat/Pegeut above, and if its any help mine is a Fiat with transverse bed, and being just over 6ft tall have no problem with the length of bed, though as you suggest, MM should try this for himself if this is what he might have in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 HowardI hope you kept your boy bits in a jar, just in case you change your mind!Yes, so far as I know, all the transverse bed van conversions are on Fiats. The Fiat is the widest of the panel vans, and I think all the others end up just that bit too narrow to take a bed across the width. Not sure about the Iveco in its new skin - but no one seems to convert that, so it's a bit academic anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Brian, There are several transverse bed and bunk conversions on the Renault Master - including my own. With careful design, you can get a 6'1" length bed across a Master, which is as long as many beds in coachbuilt conversions. Examples include the very popular Devon Monte Carlo models. You are right that the Sevel van has the widest body, and the old (and I think new) Merc/VW is just too narrow for a transverse bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 MacMad, Clive is right - my van was purpose built for me (and management, of course!). It is, however, called the 'Wyvern Wanderer II' in deference to the people who built it for me. I covered its design and build in two MMM articles last year (June & July). Final cost, including a brand new Renault Master with every extra, was c. £35,000 in 2005. It sleeps 4 when needed - two in transverse bunks at the rear that are 6'1" and 5'10" by 2'5" wide - these are intended for grandchildren but my wife happily uses the lower, longer one when we're touring and don't want ot put up the double. At the front is a 6'6" settee that converts to a single or double dinette, a single bed (6'6" x 2'6") or a full-size double (6'6"x4'6") - actually 3" longer than a standard double. Why the Wyvern Wanderer II instead if I? Many moons ago I used to develop and sell computer software. Rule 1 was you always start a new piece of software at version 2 'cos nobody will ever believe that verion 1 is any good!! Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Brian Kirby - 2007-01-20 11:49 AMHowardI hope you kept your boy bits in a jar, just in case you change your mind!Yes, so far as I know, all the transverse bed van conversions are on Fiats. The Fiat is the widest of the panel vans, and I think all the others end up just that bit too narrow to take a bed across the width. Not sure about the Iveco in its new skin - but no one seems to convert that, so it's a bit academic anyway.Sorry about the picture Brian, but Chopper wanted to know what the wife looked like and i,ll take it off as soon as he replies.Final word on bed lengths. I see MM was interested in the Ford Duetto which we looked at few years ago. I checked the single bed layout with my tape and found it to be 3in shorter than advertised. Never take the converters word on brochure specifcations as sometimes they can " economical with the truth. " Always measure and try for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 MacMad - 2007-01-18 6:27 PM Anyway, would love feedback from the "panel" on the following points.... Is it practical to use a standard (i.e. approx 6metre) van as an everyday vehicle, bearing in mind I live in a rural area, am retired, and do about 10,000 miles a year, and can it be parked in "normal" car parks or is it really essential to keep a separate car. Parking at home is not a problem. Look forward to receiving feedback..... macmad Getting Back to this 'Bit' of Mac M's Thread, how pracitical IS IT ? to use an upto 6M Van Conversion as(only means of) everyday transport ? Most of the Advantages are obvious,it's the unexpected things that perhaps we hadn't thought about, Draw backs as well as plusses. From all you who have 'Been there'. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacMad Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 Hi all, the wife and I are both a midge under 5'9" so should be ok for beds, I was actually leaning more toward vans with two "longtitudinal" beds layout so that in the night each person can access the back of the van without disturbing the others. Beds also double for lounging through the day so very effecient use of space. Something else to explore at the NEC in February.... Had a couple of PM's recommending Adria vans but not keen on the rear bedroom. Prefer to make up beds, although this is a chore,it seems to me to be a waste of (already limited ) daytime living space if you have a ready made up double bed on a permanent basis. macmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 MacMad - 2007-01-20 3:18 PM I was actually leaning more toward vans with two "longtitudinal" beds layout so that in the night each person can access the back of the van without disturbing the others. Beds also double for lounging through the day so very effecient use of space. Had a couple of PM's recommending Adria vans but not keen on the rear bedroom. Prefer to make up beds, although this is a chore,it seems to me to be a waste of (already limited ) daytime living space if you have a ready made up double bed on a permanent basis. macmad The following post is not 'banging on about' which layout is best as we are all different, but just to point out something you may have overlooked. Your first paragragh states that longditudnal beds can be used for lounging on during day but your second paragragh discounts rear bed for lounging on, why? this is exactly what we do in our T25, the rear bed is rarely put in seat position but left as bed for lounging on, if we wish to sit upright we lean against side of van or use cab seats. With the Twin you have choise of 3 (4 with a squeeze) upright seats and a large double bed for lounging and if you get a bit of 'cabin fever' from being in a relativly small van for long periods you can 'seperate' a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Just make sure you make the bed up and lay on it as well as trying the loo (dummy run) and dining table before you part with any of your hard earned loot. Layout is a very personal choice and whilst I know what I like I'm not going to say unless you specifically ask for views on the relative pros and cons of two differing layouts so don't be swayed by anyone else's view - they don't have to live with it - you do! Best for lounging are inward facing bench seats or U shaped rear lounges with enough room to put your feet up and lean back on a cushion to relax whilst also having somewhere to put the TV at eye level (not in the roof). Cushions without joins and, more importantly, without rolled and raised edges where they join make the best beds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Mel E - 2007-01-20 12:10 PM Brian, There are several transverse bed and bunk conversions on the Renault Master - including my own. With careful design, you can get a 6'1" length bed across a Master, which is as long as many beds in coachbuilt conversions. Examples include the very popular Devon Monte Carlo models. You are right that the Sevel van has the widest body, and the old (and I think new) Merc/VW is just too narrow for a transverse bed. Thanks Mel, I hadn't spotted the Monte Carlo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 MacMad - 2007-01-20 3:18 PM Hi all, the wife and I are both a midge under 5'9" so should be ok for beds, I was actually leaning more toward vans with two "longtitudinal" beds layout so that in the night each person can access the back of the van without disturbing the others. Beds also double for lounging through the day so very effecient use of space. Something else to explore at the NEC in February.... Had a couple of PM's recommending Adria vans but not keen on the rear bedroom. Prefer to make up beds, although this is a chore,it seems to me to be a waste of (already limited ) daytime living space if you have a ready made up double bed on a permanent basis. macmad You'll undoubtedly spot this when you get to the NEC, but one potential flaw in your plan is the big sliding door. One of the single beds, usually nearside, if mounted forward, will obstruct that door. Most beds in this position therefore tend to be an extended seat, with access through the door only really possible when it is configured as a seat. If that bed also uses the swivelled driving / front passenger's seats, bang will go one of your loungers!However, an excellent version of this layout type, on a VW T5, is available from Bilbos. That vehicle is small enough for genuine every day use, and by all accounts has the best ride quality of all. Bilbos quality usually gets well reviewed as well, but they ain't cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Because of your first posting on this thread for some reason it didn't click with me that you seem to be new to motorhomes. If you are then I give you my advice to any new user, RENT FIRST. It may seem expensive, especialy in this country, but you will learn what works for you, and you have best chance avoiding getting stuck with a layout you don't like. I can recommend Australia, New Zealand, Canada and US, with OZ and NZ as having more UK alike vans in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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