Guest pelmetman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 colin - 2018-07-18 8:30 PM Looking very much like hard Brexit is coming. B-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-10 10:09 AM How many more times do you want me to post the link? *-) ......... http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-35/europe.aspx BTW I doubt the National Centre for social Research if stuffed to the gunnels with Brexiteers (lol) ........ But, there is more. If instead of reading the "Europe" section of the survey, you turn to the "Voting" section, and delve into that chapter, I think all is explained. See the following, which I thought quite revealing. "However, for the most part, the debate during the referendum campaign was not about the role of the government in managing the economy and dealing with inequality. Rather, it was about Britain’s relationship with the rest of the world, including whether it should accept the limitations on its sovereignty that came with EU membership and the extent to which it should be willing to embrace immigration from the EU (and elsewhere). These are issues that belong to a different ideological division, one between, on the one hand, libertarians or social liberals and, on the other, authoritarians or social conservatives (Heath et al., 1985.). The former group comprises those who feel that people should be free to choose the moral code that they follow and the social mores that they respect, and are comfortable living in a diverse, multiethnic, multi-linguistic society. These are views that were associated with voting for Remain. Those in the latter group, in contrast, are inclined to the view that society needs to encourage and enforce common moral codes, social mores and linguistic practices as a way of promoting social cohesion, while they are personally more comfortable living in a relatively homogenous society. This group consists disproportionately of Leave supporters (Curtice, 2017a; see also the Europe chapter by Curtice and Tipping). This, it seems to me, is the reason the two "camps" remain intractably at odds. Whether these divisions are the result of nature, or nurture, is somewhat academic: they are there, and they influence the basis of our politics in all areas. The thing that then emerges, is that these social authoritarians become financial libertarians when it comes to the conduct of trade and business (where the social libertarians become the authoritarians) returning to their authoritarian roots when the regulation of trade and business is under consideration. It is a mistrust of anyone other than themselves who makes rules, no matter how democratic the process, and especially if those rules seem to impinge on their own freedom to do as they choose. This is, of course, exacerbated if those rules are made outside the UK by a majority "foreign" institution. In short, if I make a rule it follows that it will be good for me, and by extension therefore, good for you. OTOH, if you make the rule, it follows that it will be good only for you, and I shall be disadvantaged. Raise by one order of magnitude if those who have made the rule are in any way different from me, be it through ethnicity, creed, or political persuasion. The authoritarian mind cannot cope with the idea that constraints are placed on them by those they distrust, and they distrust anyone who is not very closely aligned to their own mindset. In this respect, libertarians are more inclined to judge the constraint against its intended purpose, rather than by who made it. Hence the libertarians are more relaxed about the EU, while the authoritarians are incensed by it because they don't directly control what it says and does. That the country, parliament, and the government, are similarly split should not be surprising. What we need to do is stop focusing on who is making the rules, and focus much more on whether those rules are good or bad - in terms of both of intent and efficacy. Which, in its way, is interesting, because I have sought to understand for years what it is about the EU that the Brexiters really object to, and have never seen a rational explanation that gets beyond a list of headlines, and presents the specifics of which actual regulations are bad, or where laws impinge unfairly on the UK alone, or exactly what freedoms we should gain by leaving, and how we might be able to exploit those freedoms in the real world. In the absence of any such rational explanation I have been forced to conclude that it is mainly because the EU is, by definition, run - in majority terms - by Johnny Foreigner who is different, who speaks strange languages, and whose prime motivation is to disadvantage the UK alone among a group of 28 countries. There must be a word for that, but it escapes me at present! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-07-19 10:52 AM In the absence of any such rational explanation I have been forced to conclude that it is mainly because the EU is, by definition, run - in majority terms - by Johnny Foreigner who is different, who speaks strange languages, and whose prime motivation is to disadvantage the UK alone among a group of 28 countries. There must be a word for that, but it escapes me at present! :-D So if that's the case ;-) ......... Why do I and many other Brexiteers spend so much of our time abroad surrounded by Johnny Foreigner? >:-) ......... Nice try Brian....... but no straight Banana :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-19 12:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-07-19 10:52 AM In the absence of any such rational explanation I have been forced to conclude that it is mainly because the EU is, by definition, run - in majority terms - by Johnny Foreigner who is different, who speaks strange languages, and whose prime motivation is to disadvantage the UK alone among a group of 28 countries. There must be a word for that, but it escapes me at present! :-D So if that's the case ;-) ......... Why do I and many other Brexiteers spend so much of our time abroad surrounded by Johnny Foreigner? >:-) ......... Nice try Brian....... but no straight Banana :D ........ Well, you could more easily tell me yourself, but at a guess, because first you have chosen to do so - and no-one from "abroad" has told you that is what you have to do. Second, because "abroad" is not the EU, it is anywhere that is not the UK. You go, I think, primarily because it is relatively cheap, and warmer in winter than the UK. It can't be because you want to travel around the other EU states to see how they tick and what they are like, since you seem to transit France as quickly as possible, and invariably return to familiar places in Spain. Is that fair? Also, it seems, because you are not, in your mind, visiting the EU - although, in reality, you are able to do so with such ease because of the EU. It is not the foreigner you dislike, it is the idea, in your mind, that the foreigner is telling the UK, and so you, what you can, and cannot do. I get the impression that it does not matter whether or not what he says makes sense. Your main objection seems to be that he is not British, but is nevertheless setting boundaries for Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 colin - 2018-07-18 8:30 PM Barryd999 - 2018-07-07 10:43 AM So much for "The Sainted Theresa" huh? Stitched you Brexiteers up like a proper "Kipper" (lol) I Think she has played a clever long game. Its now perfectly clear why she didn't want parliament involved in the deal if it was rejected. It wasn't out for fear of the Tory rebels. It was so that she could keep the Brexiteers sidelined. She played them. I was also impressed that she took all the phones and tech off everyone then sneaked round the back during Dinner to issue her press statement. No tweets or communication whatsoever from the Cabinet Brexiteers. However this is a long way from being acceptable to the EU. I Dont think a two tier tariff system is even legal under WTO Rules for a kick off and she will end up having to do a deal on services of course and Free movement and ECJ will be unavoidable. Then there will be real backlash. The whole point of leaving from the big money Brexiteers like Banks was to lose the EU Regs. He and his evil little band of wealthy Brexiteers will lose their sh1t if they are exposed to EU regs. Thats what Brexit was all about to them. Why do you think they threw so much money at it? To take back control, get rid of funny foreigners? Guffaw! Well to take back control for them of course. However rejoice at this news. Its put Smuggy and the ERG Firmly back in their little slimy box. The entire cabinet has put their name on the Chequers agreement which means even if the ERG could scramble 48 letters to challenge May, they have no one they can rally behind in a leadership challenge. Boris cant challenge the agreement without risking getting sacked in which case he would never be leader which lets face it is all its ever been about for him. The ERG has nobody electable as leader anyway. Check mate to May on this one really. Of course it will all be rejected by the EU on the 16th and further concessions will be have to be made but its a very bad day in Brexiteer land today. My only hope is that by the time its all finished, the deal looks so much like being in the EU everybody turns round and says "well we may as well stay in the EU then" and Brexit is dropped. So here we are a week later and JRM and the rest of the mob have scuppered any meaningful deal with the help of some Labour MPs who also want a complete break. Looking very much like hard Brexit is coming. That depends on whether you believe TM is playing the long game or not. There is no majority in parliament for a hard Brexit either way and you can't have one if for any other reason than its now written into law that there can be no hard border in Northern Ireland so how does their version of Brexit deal with that. Don't get me wrong, I don't want a fudged deal either. One way or another it's going to have to go back to the public if no deal is struck or acceptable anyway which it's never going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-07-19 1:45 PM You go, I think, primarily because it is relatively cheap, and warmer in winter than the UK. It can't be because you want to travel around the other EU states to see how they tick and what they are like, since you seem to transit France as quickly as possible, and invariably return to familiar places in Spain. Is that fair? Incorrect again ;-) ........ When I retired early 2 years and went full time Mohoing the plan was to spend the winter in Spain, and the rest of the time touring Europe returning for July & August for MOT's etc B-) ........ Unfortunately the MIL getting dementia has put the kibosh on that *-) ........... So we now spend the summer in Weymouth taking over from the SIL who takes the strain all winter :-| ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-07-19 1:45 PM pelmetman - 2018-07-19 12:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-07-19 10:52 AM In the absence of any such rational explanation I have been forced to conclude that it is mainly because the EU is, by definition, run - in majority terms - by Johnny Foreigner who is different, who speaks strange languages, and whose prime motivation is to disadvantage the UK alone among a group of 28 countries. There must be a word for that, but it escapes me at present! :-D So if that's the case ;-) ......... Why do I and many other Brexiteers spend so much of our time abroad surrounded by Johnny Foreigner? >:-) ......... Nice try Brian....... but no straight Banana :D ........ Well, you could more easily tell me yourself, but at a guess, because first you have chosen to do so - and no-one from "abroad" has told you that is what you have to do. Second, because "abroad" is not the EU, it is anywhere that is not the UK. You go, I think, primarily because it is relatively cheap, and warmer in winter than the UK. It can't be because you want to travel around the other EU states to see how they tick and what they are like, since you seem to transit France as quickly as possible, and invariably return to familiar places in Spain. Is that fair? Also, it seems, because you are not, in your mind, visiting the EU - although, in reality, you are able to do so with such ease because of the EU. It is not the foreigner you dislike, it is the idea, in your mind, that the foreigner is telling the UK, and so you, what you can, and cannot do. I get the impression that it does not matter whether or not what he says makes sense. Your main objection seems to be that he is not British, but is nevertheless setting boundaries for Britain. If Dave does indeed feel "the foreigner" telling us what to do here in Blighty is wrong is he doing something wrong having those views , maybe those views are racist everything else seems to be ??? ... Surely it's similar to what Sturgeon wants for Scotland isn't it and no one is questioning their right to those views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-19 3:02 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-07-19 1:45 PM You go, I think, primarily because it is relatively cheap, and warmer in winter than the UK. It can't be because you want to travel around the other EU states to see how they tick and what they are like, since you seem to transit France as quickly as possible, and invariably return to familiar places in Spain. Is that fair? Incorrect again ;-) ........ When I retired early 2 years and went full time Mohoing the plan was to spend the winter in Spain, and the rest of the time touring Europe returning for July & August for MOT's etc B-) ........ Unfortunately the MIL getting dementia has put the kibosh on that *-) ........... So we now spend the summer in Weymouth taking over from the SIL who takes the strain all winter :-| ....... I'm sorry to hear that, Dave. I have some experience of dementia, and it must be very difficult for you and Mrs Pelmet to have to witness her gradual deterioration. On a slightly lighter note, as you never tire of telling us all how young you are, perhaps it will eventually turn out to be paradise postponed, rather than paradise denied, for both of you. Very difficult times. I sympathise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-07-19 3:19 PM...……………….If Dave does indeed feel "the foreigner" telling us what to do here in Blighty is wrong is he doing something wrong having those views , maybe those views are racist everything else seems to be ??? ... Surely it's similar to what Sturgeon wants for Scotland isn't it and no one is questioning their right to those views Dave asked a question that he could as easily have answered himself, so I answered him in the terms I had understood his opinion. I don't think I said those views would be wrong, if he held them. He has yet to say whether my understanding of his opinion is right or wrong. I have not implied, or mentioned, racism, and it is difficult to know which race, tribe, or whatever, his "ism", if he has one, might relate to. I don't question the right of the Scots to wish to leave the UK, if that is what they want. Personally, I should be saddened were they to do so, but I can understand their desire for independence, albeit I think that mistaken in every sense saving that it should open for them the opportunity to remain within the EU, which a majority of the Scots wanted. It is easy to turn in, and reduce one's horizons, but the world we inhabit is increasingly connected and interconnected, and I think shrinking one's outlook to this or that piece of soil a huge error. 200 years ago or so, people in England used to refer to people from the next village as foreigners, while those from other countries were called outlanders. Mainly because if the average person wanted to get to the next village, they had to walk, which limited their ability to travel. Only the wealthy had horses or carriages, so only the wealthy could travel longer distances. I think we have progressed to where we are now, others want to regress to their parochial origins. I think they make a mistake, but they have the right to do it and find out. The problem that arises is that when countries seek to do this, the willing drag with them the unwilling, who are then forced to live with what they did not want. This was originally about Brexit, the consequences of which are still being revealed. We are now, two years after the referendum, beginning to see what we shall lose. Those things, insofar as they were mentioned during the campaign, were dismissed by the Brexiters as project fear. To set against those losses, we have what, exactly? Vague promises of how much "we" shall benefit from free trade deals with mainly unspecified countries. No substance, no detail, just airy assertions. The lure of gold tomorrow has always been the downfall of the gullible - whose biggest problem is admitting to themselves that they have been gulled. When realisation dawns, they are prone to becoming very angry. Brexit is no recipe for future peace and economic well being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-07-19 3:23 PM On a slightly lighter note, as you never tire of telling us all how young you are, perhaps it will eventually turn out to be paradise postponed, rather than paradise denied, for both of you. Very difficult times. I sympathise. Young at 60? 8-) ..........I guess I am considering the average age that most folks start mohoing :D ......... Hardly paradise denied though......I started with my first moho trip around Morocco in a Highwayman in 78, and we have clocked up 26.5 years of mohoing here and across the ditch with Horace B-) ........ Not to mention my 10 years travelling the world at Er Madges expense mixing with those funny foreign Johnny's 8-) ........... So your belief that I want to leave the EU because I don't like foreigners is incorrect ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-19 5:01 PM I started with my first moho trip around Morocco in a Highwayman in 78, and we have clocked up 26.5 years of mohoing here and across the ditch with Horace B-) ........ Only 26 1/2 years, a mere beginner? You young upstart - you still have a long way to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Tracker - 2018-07-19 5:11 PM pelmetman - 2018-07-19 5:01 PM I started with my first moho trip around Morocco in a Highwayman in 78, and we have clocked up 26.5 years of mohoing here and across the ditch with Horace B-) ........ Only 26 1/2 years, a mere beginner? You young upstart - you still have a long way to go! Yeah but I did start in 78 ;-) .........So technically that's 40 years :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I take it maths is not your strong point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Tracker - 2018-07-19 5:24 PM I take it maths is not your strong point? Is 1978 to 2018 not 40 years? :-S ............ Maybe I'm not 60? :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-19 5:01 PM I started with my first moho trip around Morocco in a Highwayman in 78, and we have clocked up 26.5 years of mohoing here and across the ditch with Horace B-) ........ So pelmet logic dictates that 1978 to 2018 is 26 1/2 years innit? I know that the Highwayman was slow but did it take the poor wee beastie the missing 13 1/2 years to get back from Morocco! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Tracker - 2018-07-19 5:35 PM pelmetman - 2018-07-19 5:01 PM I started with my first moho trip around Morocco in a Highwayman in 78, and we have clocked up 26.5 years of mohoing here and across the ditch with Horace B-) ........ So pelmet logic dictates that 1978 to 2018 is 26 1/2 years innit? I know that the Highwayman was slow but did it take the poor wee beastie the missing 13 1/2 years to get back from Morocco! I did say technically ;-) ........ How many folk have had campers parked on their drives for years, yet have prolly clocked up barely a few months of mohoing in total, as is evident from the number of 20+ year old campers with much less than 100k mileage ? :-S ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-19 5:41 PM How many folk have had campers parked on their drives for years, yet have prolly clocked up barely a few months of mohoing in total, as is evident from the number of 20+ year old campers with much less than 100k mileage ? You're darned right there - recently BS (before sunshine) I sat looking out at the rain sweeping down the road and worked out how many vans I've had over the years and tried to estimate the mileages covered and it all added up to about 250,000 miles in Mohos alone - before I thought of a few more that I had missed. I think at 5000 miles a year average that ain't bad - and I shudder to think how much that lot cost! Not having a Moho would be like having a pay rise if 'er indoors didn't keep dragging me orf on 'olidays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Tracker - 2018-07-19 5:59 PM pelmetman - 2018-07-19 5:41 PM How many folk have had campers parked on their drives for years, yet have prolly clocked up barely a few months of mohoing in total, as is evident from the number of 20+ year old campers with much less than 100k mileage ? You're darned right there - recently BS (before sunshine) I sat looking out at the rain sweeping down the road and worked out how many vans I've had over the years and tried to estimate the mileages covered and it all added up to about 250,000 miles in Mohos alone - before I thought of a few more that I had missed. I think at 5000 miles a year average that ain't bad - and I shudder to think how much that lot cost! Not having a Moho would be like having a pay rise if 'er indoors didn't keep dragging me orf on 'olidays! Horace has done more miles in the last few years than he did in the previous 20, and has now clocked over 100k B-) ........ Have to say the regular use seems to have cured all those niggling problems, that used to happen when he was younger :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-19 5:01 PM..................So your belief that I want to leave the EU because I don't like foreigners is incorrect ;-) ........ But, I didn't say it was, did I? So, back to basics. :-) I said "In the absence of any such rational explanation I have been forced to conclude that it is mainly because the EU is, by definition, run - in majority terms - by Johnny Foreigner who is different, who speaks strange languages, and whose prime motivation is to disadvantage the UK alone among a group of 28 countries. There must be a word for that, but it escapes me at present!" To which you replied "So if that's the case...…. Why do I and many other Brexiteers spend so much of our time abroad surrounded by Johnny Foreigner?" Nice try Brian...... but no straight Banana. Note, I did not say you (or anyone else) disliked Johnny Foreigner, what I said was that you seem to dislike the EU because it is run by Johnny Foreigner. If it is not because it is run by foreigners, what is it about the EU that you so dislike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-07-20 12:39 PM pelmetman - 2018-07-19 5:01 PM..................So your belief that I want to leave the EU because I don't like foreigners is incorrect ;-) ........ But, I didn't say it was, did I? So, back to basics. :-) I said "In the absence of any such rational explanation I have been forced to conclude that it is mainly because the EU is, by definition, run - in majority terms - by Johnny Foreigner who is different, who speaks strange languages, and whose prime motivation is to disadvantage the UK alone among a group of 28 countries. There must be a word for that, but it escapes me at present!" To which you replied "So if that's the case...…. Why do I and many other Brexiteers spend so much of our time abroad surrounded by Johnny Foreigner?" Nice try Brian...... but no straight Banana. Note, I did not say you (or anyone else) disliked Johnny Foreigner, what I said was that you seem to dislike the EU because it is run by Johnny Foreigner. If it is not because it is run by foreigners, what is it about the EU that you so dislike? I dislike the EU because it's run by Germany for the benefit of Germany *-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-20 12:42 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-07-20 12:39 PM pelmetman - 2018-07-19 5:01 PM..................So your belief that I want to leave the EU because I don't like foreigners is incorrect ;-) ........ But, I didn't say it was, did I? So, back to basics. :-) I said "In the absence of any such rational explanation I have been forced to conclude that it is mainly because the EU is, by definition, run - in majority terms - by Johnny Foreigner who is different, who speaks strange languages, and whose prime motivation is to disadvantage the UK alone among a group of 28 countries. There must be a word for that, but it escapes me at present!" To which you replied "So if that's the case...…. Why do I and many other Brexiteers spend so much of our time abroad surrounded by Johnny Foreigner?" Nice try Brian...... but no straight Banana. Note, I did not say you (or anyone else) disliked Johnny Foreigner, what I said was that you seem to dislike the EU because it is run by Johnny Foreigner. If it is not because it is run by foreigners, what is it about the EU that you so dislike? I dislike the EU because it's run by Germany for the benefit of Germany *-) ........... Germany pays around 10% more into the EU than us but as for 'being run by Germany', that's just DM/Brexit hyperbole. UK has benefited from being an EU member and Germany is our top EU export market, not to mention introduction of WTD giving all employees annual paid leave and a whole raft of other regulations which improved quality of life. The following links give just a small snapshot of how and why it has been beneficial. There is much more very easily sourced statistics. https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377 https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/Brexit https://fullfact.org/europe/reciprocal-benefits/ https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/what-has-the-eu-ever-done-for-you-quite-a-lot-actually-a7097636.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-07-20 1:40 PM pelmetman - 2018-07-20 12:42 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-07-20 12:39 PM pelmetman - 2018-07-19 5:01 PM..................So your belief that I want to leave the EU because I don't like foreigners is incorrect ;-) ........ But, I didn't say it was, did I? So, back to basics. :-) I said "In the absence of any such rational explanation I have been forced to conclude that it is mainly because the EU is, by definition, run - in majority terms - by Johnny Foreigner who is different, who speaks strange languages, and whose prime motivation is to disadvantage the UK alone among a group of 28 countries. There must be a word for that, but it escapes me at present!" To which you replied "So if that's the case...…. Why do I and many other Brexiteers spend so much of our time abroad surrounded by Johnny Foreigner?" Nice try Brian...... but no straight Banana. Note, I did not say you (or anyone else) disliked Johnny Foreigner, what I said was that you seem to dislike the EU because it is run by Johnny Foreigner. If it is not because it is run by foreigners, what is it about the EU that you so dislike? I dislike the EU because it's run by Germany for the benefit of Germany *-) ........... Germany pays around 10% more into the EU than us but as for 'being run by Germany', that's just DM/Brexit hyperbole. UK has benefited from being an EU member and Germany is our top EU export market, not to mention introduction of WTD giving all employees annual paid leave and a whole raft of other regulations which improved quality of life. The following links give just a small snapshot of how and why it has been beneficial. There is much more very easily sourced statistics. https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377 https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/Brexit https://fullfact.org/europe/reciprocal-benefits/ https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/what-has-the-eu-ever-done-for-you-quite-a-lot-actually-a7097636.html Oh joy...... more Remoaner propaganda *-) ............ Germany will be paying in 100% more than us in 252 days time >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-20 12:42 PM...…………………….I dislike the EU because it's run by Germany for the benefit of Germany *-) ........... I think the statement above is untrue, because each of the 28 member countries contributes to the parliament, the council, and the commission. In any of the decision making EU institutions Germany can be outvoted. In the commission, there are 28 commissioners, only one of whom is German. So, too, with the council, which comprises the ministers of the 28 member states, as appropriate to the topic under consideration, only one of whom is German. In the parliament, the MEPs are directly elected by the inhabitants of each member state, with the number of MEPs elected by each state varying in proportion to the population of the state - 751 MEPs in total, of whom 96 are German (the largest contingent, from differing political persuasions, so not all given to voting en-bloc on any measure, but in any case way, way, short of an overall majority). So, in simple fact, it is not possible for Germany to "run" the EU. Does Germany seek to advantage Germany in its involvement with the EU institutions? Of course, but so do the other member states. The EU is a group of countries seeking to gain advantage from their membership, to the benefit of their own inhabitants, in both the short and the long term. That is why the institutions have evolved as they have over time, to ensure that no one state can give itself advantage at the expense of others. Each state is deliberately placed in a position where it has to form agreements with other states in order to prevail. To do that, it has to persuade the other states to back its proposals, or face being out voted. I believe the above is factual. So, am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Tell you what how are those EU numpties guna deal with Italys Salvini ??? ... Hes now promising to stop the 5 billion Euros it costs to keep all those young male migrants and spend the money on Italys poor ... Sounds like good old common sense to me and to top it off looks like most Italians agree with him ... What will Mrs Merkel do ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 <<< So, in simple fact, it is not possible for Germany to "run" the EU. >>> Hi Brian, Do you have any charts showing the hiarachy (sp?) of the EU Civil Service in Belgium? How many of the top Civil Service jobs are held by Germans? Did you know the French have special colleges for youngsters who plan to work in Brusselss? Nothing wrong with that, but ..... Of the present/past (?) 28 states, the top 6 can out-vote the other 22. Trump fights America's corner. Who does the President(?) of the EU fight for? Who is/are the President(s) of the EU. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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