aandy Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I've always understood that nobody can initiate a claim against someone else's insurance policy. You claim against the individual and he then passes it to his insurer to cover his liability. If he refuses to do so, the injured party has no route by which to engage with the insurer. If that is still the case, unless the other driver submits a claim Axa could not settle under his policy even if they wanted to, and Den's only option would seem to be to claim on his own insurance. That would then be a 'no fault' claim, in that there is no fault on the part of the holder of the policy against which it was made. However, I am not sure I share the pessimism about subsequently recovering loss from the other driver. Even if he has no assets, we know he has third party insurance to cover any loss for which he is liable. Faced with a court order (or, hopefully, just the prospect of one) it is difficult to imagine why he would not then claim against his insurance, particularly as he will have lost any advantage he might have hoped to gain by keeping the matter from the insurer. That said, I would agree with others who have advised seeking legal advice, at least if it reaches the stage where it is certain that the other party is not going to claim. £150 might seem a lot for a half hour chat, but it could save a lot more than that in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 If it is £150, add that to the eventual bill, on the basis that it was necessary to take legal advice because the other driver behaved as he did. It won't cost anything to do so, and you may even get the £150 back! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I'm sorry I've not read the complete thread but a few points may be of interest 1. If you have Legal Expenses Cover on your insurance then they may pursue your claim, including any uninsured losses eg vehicle hire. (This is often an optional cover at inception/renewal for which a small additional premium is payable) 2. Subject to negligence being proved against the third party then they or their insurers are liable for damage and any uninsured losses eg vehicle hire 3. If the third party insurers deny indemnity to the third party because of a breach of the policy conditions, then recourse can be made to the MIB - see here https://www.mib.org.uk/making-a-claim/claiming-against-an-uninsured-driver/uninsured-drivers-agreements/ I'm out of touch but it used to be that AXA as the third party insurer would deal with your claim as "Insurer Concerned" and claim their outlays from the third party Overall, I suggest you need professional advice if you don't have Legal Expenses Cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Den, personally I would just hire a MH and claim against the other party if my own could not be repaired in time. However, if you don’t feel confident about pursuing this claim to its fullest extent on your own, my advice would be to stop prolonging matters and consult a solicitor or claims management company tomorrow without delay. Extending the discussion here will not take you closer to a solution and time is of the essence if you wish to follow your original timetable. Hope it works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 crocs - 2018-11-08 10:51 PM Den, personally I would just hire a MH and claim against the other party if my own could not be repaired in time... I dont think Den has ever said how long his Spanish holiday was to last, but hiring a motorhome in the UK to allow that holiday to be taken would be a potentially risky business as far as claiming compensation for ‘loss of use’ is concerned. This Financial Ombudsman Sevice webpage refers https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/loss-of-use-mv.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-09 9:08 AM crocs - 2018-11-08 10:51 PM Den, personally I would just hire a MH and claim against the other party if my own could not be repaired in time... I dont think Den has ever said how long his Spanish holiday was to last, but hiring a motorhome in the UK to allow that holiday to be taken would be a potentially risky business as far as claiming compensation for ‘loss of use’ is concerned. This Financial Ombudsman Sevice webpage refers https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/loss-of-use-mv.html Have to agree with Derek We had problems with car hire costs, when we had our accident. The other party questioned why we hired , when we could have got public transport home! From Doncaster to Portsmouth, and new years eve?? with all the xmas stuff an luggage involved? The court case took 3 years to resolve the issue. The cost of a motorhome , for holiday,? I don't think that would go down well! Could you report AXA to the insurance ombudsman, they seem to be VERY unhelpful . PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 Hi The holiday to Spain was for 2 plus weeks. ( not long, but work hinders my hols) It would be a gamble to hire a Motorhome and reclaim the costs due to the fact the 3 rd party has still not notified his insurance, thus not excepting responsibility. I’ve spoken today with my insurance and it’s still going through my insurance for the claim. I pay the £250 excess and may loose my no claims bonus. Fighting axa V axa is impossible. Today I’m contacting the claims management company and hopefully I can relax a little knowing someone is fighting my corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-09 9:08 AM crocs - 2018-11-08 10:51 PM Den, personally I would just hire a MH and claim against the other party if my own could not be repaired in time... I dont think Den has ever said how long his Spanish holiday was to last, but hiring a motorhome in the UK to allow that holiday to be taken would be a potentially risky business as far as claiming compensation for ‘loss of use’ is concerned. This Financial Ombudsman Sevice webpage refers https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/loss-of-use-mv.html The FOS advice refers to recovery of costs incurred because an insurer was at fault, whereas what Den is looking at is claiming consequential loss from the other driver. The principles in play may, therefore, be rather different, though if I were in Den's position I would certainly seek legal advice as to the likelihood of recovery before hiring. Now redundant in light of Den's overlapping post, but can't see a way to delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Den - 2018-11-09 12:05 PM Hi The holiday to Spain was for 2 plus weeks. ( not long, but work hinders my hols) It would be a gamble to hire a Motorhome and reclaim the costs due to the fact the 3 rd party has still not notified his insurance, thus not excepting responsibility. I’ve spoken today with my insurance and it’s still going through my insurance for the claim. I pay the £250 excess and may loose my no claims bonus. Fighting axa V axa is impossible. Today I’m contacting the claims management company and hopefully I can relax a little knowing someone is fighting my corner. Dennis, do first check how the claims management company gets paid, as you will ultimately be paying that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 PJay - 2018-11-09 10:27 AM Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-09 9:08 AM crocs - 2018-11-08 10:51 PM Den, personally I would just hire a MH and claim against the other party if my own could not be repaired in time... I dont think Den has ever said how long his Spanish holiday was to last, but hiring a motorhome in the UK to allow that holiday to be taken would be a potentially risky business as far as claiming compensation for ‘loss of use’ is concerned. This Financial Ombudsman Sevice webpage refers https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/loss-of-use-mv.html Have to agree with Derek We had problems with car hire costs, when we had our accident. The other party questioned why we hired , when we could have got public transport home! From Doncaster to Portsmouth, and new years eve?? with all the xmas stuff an luggage involved? The court case took 3 years to resolve the issue. The cost of a motorhome , for holiday,? I don't think that would go down well! Could you report AXA to the insurance ombudsman, they seem to be VERY unhelpful . PJay I accept that some people would not feel able, nor have the patience and persistence, to tackle this on their own. I was simply saying what I would do if that situation arose. But I have extensive knowledge of this industry and would feel confident, where others may not. As aandy says, the FOS guidance covers a different scenario. As den has now made the first move, hopefully all will be well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 As Den was only going for 2 weeks. Best to cancel holiday. Hopefully he has travel insurance? In the circumstances , I would have thought travel insurance should cover this scenario Best of luck any way PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 Travel insurance covers booked holidays with a booking ref. Being self employed I work to a time and date and then book the tunnel. We have a frequent user account, and have for the past few years. It suits us perfectly. I book the day before or even on the day, For is it works perfectly. But it isn’t liked be travel insurance companies. It’s fine when we’re away, but not booking prior to going it’s pretty useless. This drunk driver does not realise the pain his caused or care of course. It’s like the perfect storm. The insurance don’t seem to bothered about the other driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Den - 2018-11-09 5:20 PM Travel insurance covers booked holidays with a booking ref. Being self employed I work to a time and date and then book the tunnel. We have a frequent user account, and have for the past few years. It suits us perfectly. I book the day before or even on the day, For is it works perfectly. But it isn’t liked be travel insurance companies. It’s fine when we’re away, but not booking prior to going it’s pretty useless. This drunk driver does not realise the pain his caused or care of course. It’s like the perfect storm. The insurance don’t seem to bothered about the other driver. We also always booke ferry 1 or 2 days before travel! Glad you will not loose money on ferry charge. So nothing to claim on insurance .Also being self employed, you are able to choose when to go away. Will the police not be bringing charges against the driver then? He was clearly at fault, in that case? I would get a solicitor on the case . I would imagine the police will be of assistance to you. Probably get him a harsher sentence/fine Best of luck PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 The police have charged him and he will lose his licence. Being self employed for the past 32 years have always caused problems with holidays. I put work first much to my wife’s annoyance. I’m booked through 2018-2019 and into 2020 I can’t move my booked holidays or else it means a few families missing their holidays. I do Airport Transfers. My time off is most valuable like most people’s, and my MH is my baby. We are appointing a legal team to represent us with the claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 Just thought I’d update those that made some very helpful suggestions. Today the PVC MH went into the body shop. The new offside sliding door arrived early from Italy and the new parts have been ordered and paid for by the repairing garage to Goeuropean. Hopefully they will arrive soon, express delivery has been ordered and all the dealings I’ve had with Go European have been first class. The insurance company for the guilty party have still not been notified. His being a ass..... So fingers crossed we should have it for our January holiday. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Den - 2018-11-20 2:21 PM.................The insurance company for the guilty party have still not been notified. His being a ass...………………. Well, if he's going to lose his licence, he won't be doing much driving, so what incentive does he have to admit to the accident? I assume he thinks he'll keep his accident free NCD that way! BTW, the fact that he hasn't notified the accident doesn't mean he isn't personally liable. If you were so minded you could sue for the cost of the repairs and, I think, if you could then reimburse AXA's repair costs, I believe they could expunge the payout from their records so that neither your claims record, nor NCD, would be affected. If you do take that road, I think it would be wise to first check what assets he actually has as, if he has little, whereas you may win it would be pointless if he couldn't pay up. However, a solicitor's letter advising him that you have instructed them to proceed against him for the costs of your repairs, unless he advises his insurer of the accident, might help change his mind and would ensure that his insurance takes the hit, leaving yours unscathed. Worth trying? The letter should cost very little compared to the potential cost of your loss of NCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 Hi Brian From what I can find out he had his own business and probably lives in a rented house. But I think your idea of me contacting a solicitor is a good idea. Now I’m at home and not away in the MH I have a few hours spare. It’s been a while since I spoke to my solicitor and this seems a good time. Thankyou Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 With no expertise on these matters, I wonder if you pursued him via a claims company for what appears to be a watertight case, perhaps the outcome if he did not pay could affect his credit rating and surely a lien could be taken against his company. I would be keen to hear from others with knowledge wether this is practical. I assume if a no win type company is involved the only cost to you is time and annoyance. Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I have absolute sympathy with Den over this issue and one significant question comes to mind. If it is compulsory to have at least third party insurance on a vehicle how can it be so easy to avoid a third party insurance claim by simply not notifying the insurers of an accident? I'm at a loss sometimes as to how our world works. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Police involvement in a road collision is explained here https://www.essex.police.uk/contact-us/road-collision-records/frequently-asked-questions/ As I understand it, although in Den’s case the police became involved when it was evident that the van driver had been drinking, the accident did not result in injury to anyone and Den (and his insurer AXA) are aware of the van driver’s insurance details. Based on my 1960’s experience of vehicle accidents, what would normally happen is that Den’s insurer would write to the van driver’s insurer (and/or the van driver) and say “Our client was involved in a road accident with your insuree (or with you) and it was completely your insuree’s (or your) fault”. A discussion would then ensue about blamewothiness and an agreement regarding who pays would eventually be reached. However, although AXA have been given full details of the accident by Den, and AXA/Commercial must be aware that their van-driver insuree has been involved in an accident with Den, the fact that the van driver has apparently not reported the accident to his insurer (AXA/Commercial) seems to be a major stumbling block. It can’t be that unusual for two parties involved in a road collision to have the same insurer, but it must be less common for one party to decide to not notify their insurer about the accident. As the requirement to notify your insurer of an accident you’ve been involved in will be included within the insurance policy’s tems and conditions, one might reasonably expect AXA/Commercial (the van driver’s insurer) to proactively contact the van driver about the accident's non-notification by him. Given the circumstances, Den’s NCB and accident record should not be negatively affected by this incident, and he should be compensated for loss of use of his motohome, loss of VED, depreciation of the motorhome, incidental expenses, etc. If AXA won’t do this for him, then (as was suggested at the start of this thread) he really needs to obtain specialist advice and assistance to drive his claim forward to his best advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 Hi Derek Your words of wisdom make very interesting reading and I’d not thought about VED and MH off the road costs to them. It’s taken hours of calls and looking into companies to carry out the repairs. I’m told it’s a very clever ploy to annoy me for calling the Police. I did what I thought the correct thing to do and it’s causing me lots of agrovation. I’m quiet work wise because I’d told so many clients I’d be on holiday. I could have hired a MH and as the insurance said you may get your hire in time repayed. So I’m sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring for a last minute run to the airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 When it was apparent that the van driver had been drinking it was exactly the right decision for you to contact the police and (from what you’ve said earlier) it was subsequently proven to be the case that the van driver was over the UK’s legal limit. This (Which) link https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/ive-been-in-a-car-accident-do-i-have-to-claim-on-my-insurance advises that, although a driver involved in road accident does not need to claim on their insurance, they do need to notify their insurer about it - so it’s not easy to see why AXA/Commercial seem to be OK with the van driver (apparently) not having done this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 After taking onboard all the advice given to me over the past couple of weeks I thought I would ring Axa insurance to see what’s going on. The gentleman I spoke to was a little distant at first and didn’t know if the guilty driver had informed his insurance. I advised him I had taken legal advice and that they were astonished with proceedings. I also stated the costs that I will be seeking through the courts if need be. He said he would speak to axa commercial and ring me!! He did shortly after. His insurance have accepted responsibility and squashed my £250 excess. He also emailed me the contact details for his insurance with all the details for me to claim for my costs. So fingers crossed I will be able to move forward with less stress. I popped into the garage for an update and they had completely covered my MH in plastic to keep the dust off and keep the inside clean, ish !! Just waiting for the parts from Carthago Germany via GoEuropean to turn up. So AGAIN A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL THOSE WHOM TOOK THE TIME TO GIVE ME VERY VALUABLE INFORMATION. IM SURE IT HELPED Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Thanks for the update Dennis, and I'm glad you can now see daylight. Lets hope the parts arrive promptly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Hi Den Members of the UK Carthago owners club have reported some delays receiving spare parts from Germany, in some cases, extending into months. Depends what has been ordered. If it's just decals then hopefully they should be available off the shelf. It might be worth asking GoEuropean their expected delivery date based on previous experience of the ordering process. Hope you get it sorted soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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