Brian Kirby Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 StuartO - 2018-11-02 2:39 PMDerek Uzzell - 2018-11-02 2:22 PMDetails of AXA’s motorhome policy can be found herehttps://www.axaconnect.co.uk/axa-motorhome-pw.pdf/Page 17 covers policy exclusions and these include loss of use and “Unless we provide cover under this insurance, any other loss, damage or additional expense following on from the event for which you are claiming." That exclusion would not limit a claim against an at-fault motorist who caused the accident, even if he was also insured by Axa.I think that is probably correct. The problem is whether motor insurance third party cover extends beyond physical loss to include consequential loss. If it doesn't, then I assume Dennis would have to bring a civil case against the other driver, and I have even less idea where that may lead, or what his chances of actually getting payment might be - even assuming a judgement 100% in his favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 With the comments made by the forum members I spoke To AXA yesterday and the 3rd party it would seem has not reported the incident to his insurance. My AXA MH policy division has written to the commercial section. It’s like banging your head against a brick wall. They did contact a repair company whom rang me yesterday TDC bodyshop Lydney. They seem to repair. Coaches, lorries, respray diggers ect with the occasional picture of a MH on there Facebook. No website. I must add mine is a PVC Carthago Malibu. It was superb, and hopefully will be again. We can’t use it due to the damage, he caught the sliding door pushing it in and the section just beyond before scraping down the side. The door does still latch but you can see daylight between the body and the door. It would be interesting if anyone has used this company, the gent I spoke to seems nice and confident. But we do have a little damage to the interior woodwork of the sliding door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Den, Cannock Resprays seem to have a good reputation from previous posts on here, eg https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/SMC-Newark-Wokingham-Motorhomes-Cannock-Resprays-any-experience-/46746/#M527784 Try giving them a call maybe? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 Hi Keith Thank you They certainly have some decent comments. I’ll ring them Monday morning. Luckily I have 2 days off next week to take it to them. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Do you know what the police plan to do about the van driver? If the driver is prosecuted and found guilty of drink-driving, that could further complicate the insurance issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 The only information I have from the police is. He was taken into custody. For Drink driving. I have an incident No from them. I have been told independently that the insurance have to pay out and can go back to the driver and seek repayment. I know his self employed. I wouldn’t have reported him, but he stank of beer and when he got out of his vehicle he was holding his mobile that was live ( screen lit ) I can’t say if he was on the phone at the time or within 20 seconds of the accident he made a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-03 9:37 AM Do you know what the police plan to do about the van driver? If the driver is prosecuted and found guily of drink-driving, that could further complicate the insurance issue. For what it's worth, I was involved in an accident and had to claim for losses not covered by my own comprehensive insurance. The other driver was prosecuted for driving without due care and attention, and both the police and my solicitor told me at the time that his conviction would assist the claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 Hi Andy I’m hoping this will assist my claim, but we go on holiday on the 14th. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-03 9:37 AM Do you know what the police plan to do about the van driver? If the driver is prosecuted and found guily of drink-driving, that could further complicate the insurance issue. My thoughts also! Technically he could be uninsured! So AXA will have pay anyway My be that is why the other driver has not reported the accident. How bad was his vehicle, I wonder? PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adiebt Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 PJay - 2018-11-03 1:32 PM Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-03 9:37 AM Do you know what the police plan to do about the van driver? If the driver is prosecuted and found guily of drink-driving, that could further complicate the insurance issue. My thoughts also! Technically he could be uninsured! So AXA will have pay anyway My be that is why the other driver has not reported the accident. How bad was his vehicle, I wonder? PJay If he’s insured then he’s insured , albeit for the damages to the third party but not to himself , also his insurer may persue him for damages paid to the third party . Let’s hope they do and financially crucify him , drink drivers deserve all the bad karma that they get ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Den - 2018-11-03 9:06 AM...............….I spoke To AXA yesterday and the 3rd party it would seem has not reported the incident to his insurance. ………………. This seems likely to cause complications. By not doing so, the other driver is now in breach of his insurance contract. Did the police actually attend the scene while you were there? I gained the impression that they did. If so, do you know if they recorded the damage, possibly with pictures? The danger is that he may decide not to claim for the damage to his own vehicle, or to claim that you were at fault. Seems unlikely under the circumstances, especially as you have a witness, but people do strange things. I think it may be worth you contacting the police to see what they have, and to ask whether they can release any of their records to you to assist you with your claim in view of the other driver's failure to notify his insurer. Have you explored whether you will incur cancellation charges in respect of your proposed trip, and whether you can reclaim these under your insurance? If your van is driveable, have you taken it to the dealer you bought it from for them to check for internal furniture damage? I think this would be wise, as well as visiting the body shop to see whether they'll need internal fixtures stripped out to be able to repair the bodywork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 Hi Brian His vehicle came off better than ours. Still drivable with damage to his front wing and bumper. While my wife was on the phone to the police he very briefly gave me some details and drove off and told me to txt him my details. The police rang within 5 minutes to say they had stopped him and taken him into Custody. At that time the lady police women would not say if he had been taken into custody for excessive drink. We were advised to stay put until a policeman arrived or contacted me. The policeman whom rang a few minutes later confirmed he had been breathalyzed and arrested and we could make our way home. I did ring Go European and spoke to Joe whom is very nice to deal with He offered to take out any furniture and replace after the damage has been rectified. We may go with the Cannock company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-03 6:47 PMDen - 2018-11-03 9:06 AM...............….I spoke To AXA yesterday and the 3rd party it would seem has not reported the incident to his insurance. ……………….This seems likely to cause complications.... I think you are being a bit pessimistic there Brian. The other driver might be compromising his prospects of having the damage to his own car repaired by his insurer but third party liability (to Den) cannot be excluded by insurers by contractual condition. The other driver might be consummed by his impending prosecution for DUI and care little for the minor damage to his vehicle but his insurer will have to pay up for third party liabilities eventually. In this case Axa seem to be dragging their heels and being unhelpful to Den (which might be a cynical cost-controlling tactic, hoping he won't claim for the cost of a loan vehicle) but Den should be able to extract reasonable compensation (including the cost of a replacement vehicle) one way or another. It's just a pity that Axa are showing themselves to be unhelpful, for one reason or another.There is a lesson in this for all of us; it seems that Axa may not be above sneaky practice when it comes to handling claims, to bear that in mind when you choose your insurer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 I accept all of that Stuart, but the circumstances of this accident are more complex than might be the case in a normal fender bender. There is apparently a pending prosecution for drink driving, there is the fact that the other driver seems to have left the scene before he had provided full details, that he had not, when Dennis last enquired, notified his insurer of the accident, that there appears also to be some internal damage to the van's fixtures, and that Axa seem to be being less than pro-active on Dennis' behalf. What I'm trying to get across to Dennis is that he would be wise to forearm himself for a bit of a fight in order to get the best settlement he can achieve. He may be able to take his booked break in two week's time, but I honestly doubt this will be possible. At best, I suspect he may have to delay, at worst cancel and start again. I just feel that he needs to find out where he stands legally vis-a-vis all these issues. Then he can start to make decisions on a firmer basis than seems the case at present. That is what I think I would be doing, but then I'm pre-wired to try to get ahead of the curve by shooting down all the problems I can foresee before they land! You may see pessimism in there: I just see greater peace of mind from being in a position influence events as they unfold. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-04 12:00 PMI accept all of that Stuart, but the circumstances of this accident are more complex than might be the case in a normal fender bender. There is apparently a pending prosecution for drink driving, there is the fact that the other driver seems to have left the scene before he had provided full details, that he had not, when Dennis last enquired, notified his insurer of the accident, that there appears also to be some internal damage to the van's fixtures, and that Axa seem to be being less than pro-active on Dennis' behalf. What I'm trying to get across to Dennis is that he would be wise to forearm himself for a bit of a fight in order to get the best settlement he can achieve. He may be able to take his booked break in two week's time, but I honestly doubt this will be possible. At best, I suspect he may have to delay, at worst cancel and start again. I just feel that he needs to find out where he stands legally vis-a-vis all these issues. Then he can start to make decisions on a firmer basis than seems the case at present. That is what I think I would be doing, but then I'm pre-wired to try to get ahead of the curve by shooting down all the problems I can foresee before they land! You may see pessimism in there: I just see greater peace of mind from being in a position influence events as they unfold. :-D I still think you are being unduly pessimistic and driven unnecessarily towardsmaking a meal of things.Den has already contacted Axa, who are also aware that the other driver is insured by them. The other driver might still be innocent until proven guilty as far as the DUI is concerned but as far as the accident is concerned there appears to be abundent evidence of 100% fault on his part and I would suggest there is no point in getting up the police's nose by making a meal of things and asking for stuff they won't want to release - because the DUI case is in process. The police would pass on details of the other driver's name and address and insurance company if necessary (eg if den hadn't already got them) but nothing much else.The civil matter of damages for the accident is quite separate and even though the evidence of DUI might help to load the evidence of liability on to the other driver a little bit in this case it is not necessary to delay settlement of the civil matter in order to incorporate it. Some insurance companies (perhaps not Axa) have a special pro-active proceedure for dealing with accidents in which their insured is liable these days, to offer to get the repair done quickly and to offer to pay things which they obviously will have to pay for if requested (such as a loan vehicle) so that someone else doesn't get involved and increase them unnecessarily. The important thing for Den to do in the short term (if he doesn't want to lose his holiday) is to get Axa to cooperate - if necessary by invoking a claims handling agent to give them a nudge.It may simply require nudging Axa into getting the right person in their organisation involved, so Den's idea of ringing them again is a good one - with the plan to resort to using a professional claims handler as a later resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 Listening to all your very helpful comments helps for me to make my mind up. I feel somewhat aggravated that Axa are not forth coming and not at all helpful. I thought I’d give them till Tuesday and then instigate a claims management company I did ring my broker Scenic and they did ring Axa and that was it. Nothing gained. I know that normally the 3rd party insurance like to take over to save costs, but in this instance they will not be saving and his side the commercial division are not being helpful. I always feel what ever goes wrong, doesn’t matter as long as the rectification smooths over any problems and leaves you stress free We Motorhome owners are a strange lot. We care and mostly treat them as our babies. I certainly do and anyone whom has been purchased any of my past MH’d would agree that I pamper them. I never ware shoes inside the MH. I cook outside. Wash up outside. And enjoy every second of my ownership. Until some idiot takes this away from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Den, If you go to Cannock Resprays why not ask them if they can do a 'temporary' repair so you can still go away in it? At the worst they can only say No. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 I did think we could tape up the door to body, you can put your fingers through the gap. But the door close warning buzzer is repeatedly going off and it looks a right mess down the side. It also caught the body with the fridge behind it. I’m sure it’s fine, but the wife said. DO NOT TURN THE GAS ON. I’ll contact them tomorrow and hopefully send them some pictures and arrange to see them Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I know this isn't going to help but. I use an independent local broker, it may cost a bit more but they have a legal team and accident management that assist when you have an accident. I haven't had a accident (touch wood) but its reassuring to know that they'll go the extra few miles to help if I did :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Hi Paul Scenic is part of Swinton insurance and recently they closed our local branch and they were very good with any problems. It certainly is useful to use a local company. It’s the first accident in a Mh and not even scratched any of my previous Mh’s Since 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 After a long conversation with AXA today it seems they have to give the 3rd party guilty driver 16 days to advise his insurance of the accident. If he doesn’t it would seem it becomes a no blame !! They are a differcult company to deal with. I spoke to the police and they have all the information for his insurance to be to act and sort out the mess. I did tell Axa Motorhome that it seemed unbelievable they do not have a specified MH repair company under there umbrella. I have today taken mine to a local repair company whom will do the repairs and use 2 specialist companies to replace the window in the sliding door and the other one to replace the decals. I have total faith in his ability to do a first class job. I’ve used him before. Hopefully Carthago will supply the decals and some interior panels quickly. He estimates the time needed to be 40 hours. And a total respray of the one side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Den - 2018-11-06 9:41 PM........................If he doesn’t it would seem it becomes a no blame !! They are a differcult company to deal with. ……………………………... Did they explain the implications of that for you, in terms of loss of no claims discount and/or premium adjustment due to a changed claims record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 Hi Brian My question to them was. If the 3rd party does not notify his insurance AXA commercial within the 16 days what happens. She said it becomes a no fault. I am then faced with a £250 excess and increase in premiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Den - 2018-11-07 5:44 PM Hi Brian My question to them was. If the 3rd party does not notify his insurance, AXA commercial, within the 16 days what happens? She said it becomes a no fault. I am then faced with a £250 excess and increase in premiums. It seems to me that there is ample evidence of fault, including the blood alcohol evidence the police have (albeit they probably won't release that information to you or AXA). What there is not, is an admission that the damage to your van was caused by his. Since the police did not attend the scene, your only independent corroboration for who did what leading to the accident is your independent witness. Otherwise, it seems the other driver could deny involvement, admit to driving under the influence, and have his van repaired at his own expense without claiming on his insurance. He is not legally obliged to claim. I think you may therefore need to prove the identity of the other vehicle, and establish who was driving it, which hopefully your witness can provide. Whose breakdown (AA; RAC etc.) service do you use? Why not give them a ring to see what they advise? To me, this is heading the wrong way, and you could end up having to decide whether to swallow the extra premium and loss of NCD, or sue the other driver privately to recover your losses. Before embarking down that street, you'd need some idea of whether he has sufficient assets, or is the proverbial "man of straw". What you are saying just makes me uneasy, as I can't see how your insurer can reasonably declare the incident a "no blame incident" and hit you with loss of NCD and a premium hike on renewal. AXA now know (I assume from your claim and the details provided with it) that the accident took place, what caused it, what the consequences were, and have an independent witness to that effect. I simply don't see how they can, under the circumstances, in effect deny that knowledge and declare a no blame situation where the other party is clearly at fault. But then, I'm no insurance expert! Out of curiosity, have they sent a loss adjuster to inspect the damage to your van? I imagine they might want to when they get the full repair estimates. I assume you have photographs of the damage to your van, inside and out? If not, make sure you have as good a photographic record as you can get. Do you know where the other driver lives? His van should still bear the evidence so, if you can do so without putting yourself at risk, see if you can get any pictures of his damage also, if you don't already have some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 Hi Brian I spoke to the police yesterday and the police woman I spoke to was very suprised that Axa had not been in touch with them has they have all the details they require. She did say you couldn’t directly give me the information but would to the insurance. I honestly believe it’s because it’s axa V axa. I’m very prepared to use a solicitor just to prove what his done and highlight it to his customers. His a painter and decorator. I have a picture of his damaged van with my paint on and pictures of mine with his paint on. A quote with pictures have been sent to axa by the repairing garage. As yet no mention has been made regarding an engineer looking at my MH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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