BruceM Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 As if on cue . . . “Nov 12 2018 PARIS (Reuters) - The Greater Paris region will become a low-emission zone from next summer, which will limit the circulation of old diesel cars, the regional authority decided on Monday. . . . The ban will use France’s new “Crit’Air” vignette system, which identifies cars’ age and pollution level with colour-coded stickers. Cars with the Crit’Air 5 sticker (1997 to 2000-registered diesels) as well as cars without a sticker will be banned. ” https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-paris-pollution/greater-paris-to-ban-old-diesel-cars-from-summer-2019-idUKKCN1NH2BE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 "Right now, technologists don’t know how to store electricity from renewable energy at scale cheaply or efficiently....If batteries are to play their part, they must cost less than one-fifth the likely minimum cost of lithium-ion batteries (around $100 a kilowatt hour)." https://www.wired.com/story/better-battery-renewable-energy-jason-pontin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Meanwhile, Mercedes are introducing new RDE-2 compliant diesel engines next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I think most manufacturers are looking to put their Diesels through Real Driving Experience tests (RDE -more on what it is here : https://www.bvrla.co.uk/advice/guidance/what-rde2-diesel ) to see how they shape up. It isn't all 'Gloom and Doom'. Because the first stages of testing allow an engine to 'legally' exceed the limits by up to 2.1 times, there is quite a bit of optimism they will pass without too much work. The engine designers have until 2021 to make engines compliant with the second stage, even then they will be legally allowed to exceed the set limit by 1.5 times, and there is discussion that this may be relaxed if it is found to be 'too stringent' as 2021 approaches.. Car and Lorry manufacturers have huge amounts of cash, and influence. What legislators want to happen, may not be the end game. Motorhomes already look like they are going to end up in an 'exception' pool and while some of the older vehicles, like those 'dirty' vans manufactured pre 2001, may be subject to restrictions in certain Cities, I think it will be a long while before Euro 6 vehicles are impacted. The difference in emmissions from a pre 2001 vehicle and a Euro6 are huge so I can't visualise them being treated anything like the same. It isn't physically possible to build a none Diesel truck that can haul 32 tons none stop for 8 hours, and won't be for many years to come, so there will need to be concessions. I suspect the legislators think their approach is long overdue, so seem to be starting off with a 'hardball' approach that may eventually become a softer compromise. If vehicles under a 300,000 annual manufacturing limit is adopted for the later stages, then those exception groups, like motorhomes, may then creep into retrospective 'bans'. For example if Bailey/Swift/Hymer are able to claim they make less than 300,000 motorhomes a year becoming exempt from 2030 rules, then any subsequent 'banning' of earlier manufacture Diesel vehicles in Paris may also exclude motorhomes. I hope that over the next few years we will see a cleaner Diesel fuel, as well as cleaner burning engines. Diesel fuel has evolved massively since the 1960's. Why can't it be refined more to reduce the carcinogenic emissions at source, we have the technology. A synthetic Sunflower Oil, suitable refined, could be be a real Green alternative. Don't forget that Diesel engines already run on 'chip fat', A Diesel engines fuel doesn't have to the 'Heavy Oil' that is currently refined only a little. What might be interesting there, is could that new cleaner diesel fuel enable a Euro 4 engine to meet Euro 6 standards? I agree with the approach to limit emissions and especially Carcinogens, but don't see that drive as the end for the Internal Combustion Engine. I think this is a new beginning and hope that one of my favourite films, Back To The Future, has got it right that our vehicles of the future will run on Garbage. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 aandncaravan - 2018-11-13 10:18 AM I think most manufacturers are looking to put their Diesels through Real Driving Experience tests (RDE -more on what it is here : https://www.bvrla.co.uk/advice/guidance/what-rde2-diesel ) to see how they shape up. I think the 'VW Scandal' was an eye opener, whilst VW needed to cheat on the test their RDE are some of the lowest. Vans are a point in case, couple of years ago the latest VW and Merc vans (not the same engine) where tested by ProMobil against Pug and Fiat, the VWs and Mercs where way down on emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 If we still had the van I would be sticking with the well proven Euro 4 version that worked so well for us. The potential not to be able to use it in towns and cities, but instead rely on buses and park and rides, would be for us a worthwhile trade off for the added cost and dubious long term reliability of Euro 6 plus the convenience of a layout and build quality that worked very well for our kind of use. As far as cars go, it would take something very special to persuade us that petrol/hybrid is not the most suitable for us as far as overall convenience and dependability is concerned as we just do not see anything likely to become a practical cost effective alternative for a good few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I appreciate that this is an old thread but it seems appropriate to post this news item here as it chimes with many of the comments made. A recent article in Bloomberg here https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-27/china-s-hydrogen-vehicle-dream-chased-by-17-billion-of-funding highlights the progress and timing of the introduction of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in China. In essence the article reports that $17 billion is being invested on the introduction of hydrogen fuelled vehicles (infrastructure and power unit build facilities) with the intention of wide spread adoption for commercial vehicles within five years and for private vehicles within ten years. For ‘commercial vehicles’ we could read ‘motorhome power units’. I’ve no doubt that the Chinese with their command and control structure will achieve this. It’s also worth note that Shell are installing 400 hydrogen refuelling points throughout Europe (yes, a drop in the ocean, but a start). On a geoeconomic point, Russia is developing the technology to provide hydrogen from natural gas to compensate for the loss of gas sales as western countries migrate away from burning polluting fossil fuels. In fact Gazprom project the hydrogen market will be more lucrative than natural gas. So a plentiful supply of hydrogen is feasible whether from natural gas or electrolysis. My personal observation is that lithium battery powered vehicles with their limited range, long recharge times and heavy weight are probably an interim step (otherwise what would car companies have to sell to punters?) until vehicles move to hydrogen fuel cell, no doubt using market leading technology from China. This of course creates the intriguing possibility that the hydrogen fuel cell used to power a motorhome may be tapped in to by manufacturers to also produce all the habitation power requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 As far as I know nearly all hydrogen already comes from natural gas. Must be much cheaper than anything else. So no green credentials yet. Would also be nice to have hydrogen in a non/less volatile form. Lithium batteries are docile compared to hydrogen and they seem to be self destructing on a regular basis. Manufacturing defects or whatever other reason. What would be interesting to see is hydrogen as excess energy storage for solar plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 You raise some interesting points. The danger of using hydrogen is, I suspect, no greater than using LPG (as do I). Interestingly, in this article https://www.computerworld.com/article/2852323/heres-why-hydrogen-fueled-cars-arent-little-hindenburgs.html we have industry insiders arguing that hydrogen is actually safer than petrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Stanford researchers have developed a successful way generate Hydrogen fuel from seawater using Solar power and electrodes. It is out for commercial assessment at the moment. Just think what problems that would solve. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.