antony1969 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 7:58 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 6:09 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 6:02 PM Tracker - 2019-01-07 5:54 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:34 PM If that should prove the case, I just hope they do a proper job of explaining what the consequences of Brexit are likely to be for the future living standards of our fellow countrymen under all presently available scenarios: no deal, Teresa's deal, and remain. There are many people who do not like the EU but with families, mortgages and credit card debt to protect they are justifiably scared witless for their own futures by the scare mongering tactics of the campaign to date. Now at a record high with an average household over £15k in debt and nationally the amount is a staggering £428 billion. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/07/average-uk-household-debt-now-stands-at-record-15400 £15k in debt ... phones , cars , mortgages they cant keep up with , holidays , clothes , eating out ??? Your not telling us why they are in debt. The article did.....if only you'd bothered to read it instead of guessing and assuming. *-) No princess it doesnt ... It does bang on about student loans but doesnt tell us in any detail why and what those that you claim are £15k in debt have spent their cash on ... I named a few things and youve not said yes or no to any so I assume you aint got a frigging clue as usual ... More hot air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-07 7:35 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-07 7:03 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 5:45 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:41 PM pelmetman - 2019-01-07 5:14 PM...…………….If you do manage stop Brexit .......don't be surprised if there is murder on the streets........and it'll be the fault of you anti democratic remoaners :-| ......… The only person who can be responsible for murder is the murderer. Trying to enter a defence that one's victim disagreed with you over the national interest, and called you something you didn't like, just wouldn't work! You obviously didn't see or maybe you did and conveniently didn't post when Barry the other day blamed all 17 million leave voters for any hate crime/murder he could associate with Brexit ... 17 million to blame not just the hater I think I listed more than murder and hate crime as a consequence of Brexit where the blame lies totally at the feet of those who pushed for it. If we dont leave and there is violence as a result its still the fault of those that instigated Brexit. None of it would have happened without all this nonsense starting. The UK was ticking along fairly nicely before all this. Yes we had our problems but as will be soon revealed they will pale into insignificance once this sh1tstorm gets underway. Its already happening as you can see. Up until the referendum was announced your average Joe cited EU membership way down the list of their concerns. Once it was announced and the Brexpress and Mail got properly stuck in it was priority number 1. Be careful what you wish for because whichever way we go we are fooked as a nation now. No Barry thats the problem for you Remoaners ... The UK wasn't "ticking along fairy nicely before all this" , if it was 52% of folk wouldnt have voted to leave ... Your little village might have been ticking along nicely but for many their areas weren't , you find that hard to accept ... Back on topic princess , where was your abuse concern when Nigel Farage was receiving left wing abuse for years and years ... Thats right Barry it dint bother ya ... Hypocrite Just about everyone now, even a lot of Brexiteers admit we will be worse off post Brexit so if for some it all wasnt ticking along nicely as you say then how is voting to make yourself poorer going to help people in poorer areas that ironically will be hit the hardest? I can see why they voted out though. Partly because they were lied to and promised something better and partly to vote against Cameron for something different. Tragic. I Dont remember Nigel being abused apart from when he had to hide in a pub when he got abused in Scotland which was quite funny. I guess that is a bit hypocritical, soz. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-07 8:12 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 7:58 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 6:09 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 6:02 PM Tracker - 2019-01-07 5:54 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:34 PM If that should prove the case, I just hope they do a proper job of explaining what the consequences of Brexit are likely to be for the future living standards of our fellow countrymen under all presently available scenarios: no deal, Teresa's deal, and remain. There are many people who do not like the EU but with families, mortgages and credit card debt to protect they are justifiably scared witless for their own futures by the scare mongering tactics of the campaign to date. Now at a record high with an average household over £15k in debt and nationally the amount is a staggering £428 billion. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/07/average-uk-household-debt-now-stands-at-record-15400 £15k in debt ... phones , cars , mortgages they cant keep up with , holidays , clothes , eating out ??? Your not telling us why they are in debt. The article did.....if only you'd bothered to read it instead of guessing and assuming. *-) No princess it doesnt ... It does bang on about student loans but doesnt tell us in any detail why and what those that you claim are £15k in debt have spent their cash on .. Are you seriously so thick and need to have everything read back to you like a little child, or purely being your usual obtuse self? Public spending cuts and years of wage stagnation are key reasons for the increase in unsecured debt, the TUC said, adding that working families are on average worse off today than before the financial crisis. The rise of the gig economy and zero-hours contracts are also thought to be a significant contributing factor. Years of austerity and wage stagnation has pushed millions of families deep into the red. O’Grady said the minimum wage, at £7.83 an hour for over-25s, remained too low and should be raised to £10 “as quickly as possible”. She also said too few workers had the power to bargain for higher wages, and trade unions must be given the freedom to enter all workplaces and organise collective wage bargaining. Its data shows that in 1998, households faced average unsecured debts of £5,456. A decade later, just as the financial crisis was starting, that sum had doubled to £11,146. Since 2008 households have been struggling with flat or falling incomes, at a time when prices have risen fast. In October, the Bank of England’s chief economist, Andy Haldane, said the rise of insecure work in the gig economy had fuelled a “lost decade” of wage growth in Britain. In the same month, the Office for National Statistics said the acceleration in wages growth seen in the middle of 2018 still left real pay £11 a week lower than it was before the financial crisis erupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 9:47 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 8:12 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 7:58 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 6:09 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 6:02 PM Tracker - 2019-01-07 5:54 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:34 PM If that should prove the case, I just hope they do a proper job of explaining what the consequences of Brexit are likely to be for the future living standards of our fellow countrymen under all presently available scenarios: no deal, Teresa's deal, and remain. There are many people who do not like the EU but with families, mortgages and credit card debt to protect they are justifiably scared witless for their own futures by the scare mongering tactics of the campaign to date. Now at a record high with an average household over £15k in debt and nationally the amount is a staggering £428 billion. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/07/average-uk-household-debt-now-stands-at-record-15400 £15k in debt ... phones , cars , mortgages they cant keep up with , holidays , clothes , eating out ??? Your not telling us why they are in debt. The article did.....if only you'd bothered to read it instead of guessing and assuming. *-) No princess it doesnt ... It does bang on about student loans but doesnt tell us in any detail why and what those that you claim are £15k in debt have spent their cash on .. Are you seriously so thick and need to have everything read back to you like a little child, or purely being your usual obtuse self? Public spending cuts and years of wage stagnation are key reasons for the increase in unsecured debt, the TUC said, adding that working families are on average worse off today than before the financial crisis. The rise of the gig economy and zero-hours contracts are also thought to be a significant contributing factor. Years of austerity and wage stagnation has pushed millions of families deep into the red. O’Grady said the minimum wage, at £7.83 an hour for over-25s, remained too low and should be raised to £10 “as quickly as possible”. She also said too few workers had the power to bargain for higher wages, and trade unions must be given the freedom to enter all workplaces and organise collective wage bargaining. Its data shows that in 1998, households faced average unsecured debts of £5,456. A decade later, just as the financial crisis was starting, that sum had doubled to £11,146. Since 2008 households have been struggling with flat or falling incomes, at a time when prices have risen fast. In October, the Bank of England’s chief economist, Andy Haldane, said the rise of insecure work in the gig economy had fuelled a “lost decade” of wage growth in Britain. In the same month, the Office for National Statistics said the acceleration in wages growth seen in the middle of 2018 still left real pay £11 a week lower than it was before the financial crisis erupted. For starters I dont put much faith in anything the TUC says ... To be in debt princess means youve spent some money somewhere and if your £15k in debt like you suggest as some kind of average then youve spent a lot of money somewhere ... I'll ask again , can you show on what these folk in debt have spent money on ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-01-07 9:02 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 7:35 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-07 7:03 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 5:45 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:41 PM pelmetman - 2019-01-07 5:14 PM...…………….If you do manage stop Brexit .......don't be surprised if there is murder on the streets........and it'll be the fault of you anti democratic remoaners :-| ......… The only person who can be responsible for murder is the murderer. Trying to enter a defence that one's victim disagreed with you over the national interest, and called you something you didn't like, just wouldn't work! You obviously didn't see or maybe you did and conveniently didn't post when Barry the other day blamed all 17 million leave voters for any hate crime/murder he could associate with Brexit ... 17 million to blame not just the hater I think I listed more than murder and hate crime as a consequence of Brexit where the blame lies totally at the feet of those who pushed for it. If we dont leave and there is violence as a result its still the fault of those that instigated Brexit. None of it would have happened without all this nonsense starting. The UK was ticking along fairly nicely before all this. Yes we had our problems but as will be soon revealed they will pale into insignificance once this sh1tstorm gets underway. Its already happening as you can see. Up until the referendum was announced your average Joe cited EU membership way down the list of their concerns. Once it was announced and the Brexpress and Mail got properly stuck in it was priority number 1. Be careful what you wish for because whichever way we go we are fooked as a nation now. No Barry thats the problem for you Remoaners ... The UK wasn't "ticking along fairy nicely before all this" , if it was 52% of folk wouldnt have voted to leave ... Your little village might have been ticking along nicely but for many their areas weren't , you find that hard to accept ... Back on topic princess , where was your abuse concern when Nigel Farage was receiving left wing abuse for years and years ... Thats right Barry it dint bother ya ... Hypocrite Just about everyone now, even a lot of Brexiteers admit we will be worse off post Brexit so if for some it all wasnt ticking along nicely as you say then how is voting to make yourself poorer going to help people in poorer areas that ironically will be hit the hardest? I can see why they voted out though. Partly because they were lied to and promised something better and partly to vote against Cameron for something different. Tragic. I Dont remember Nigel being abused apart from when he had to hide in a pub when he got abused in Scotland which was quite funny. I guess that is a bit hypocritical, soz. :-D What was the biggest issue with leave voters Barry ??? Immigration of course so in many voters view we weren't "ticking along nicely" ... You may have been in your unaffected village but many others weren't ... As for Nigels abuse hes had threats for years , including death threats and you seriously cant remember Gob Geldof screaming Thames abuse at him ... Why dont we pull up that old Jacob Rees Mogg thread to see what was said at the time he was attacked with his nanny and children and had some idiot saying stuff to his kids ??? The hypocrisy on here is breath taking at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-08 6:37 AM Barryd999 - 2019-01-07 9:02 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 7:35 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-07 7:03 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 5:45 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:41 PM pelmetman - 2019-01-07 5:14 PM...…………….If you do manage stop Brexit .......don't be surprised if there is murder on the streets........and it'll be the fault of you anti democratic remoaners :-| ......… The only person who can be responsible for murder is the murderer. Trying to enter a defence that one's victim disagreed with you over the national interest, and called you something you didn't like, just wouldn't work! You obviously didn't see or maybe you did and conveniently didn't post when Barry the other day blamed all 17 million leave voters for any hate crime/murder he could associate with Brexit ... 17 million to blame not just the hater I think I listed more than murder and hate crime as a consequence of Brexit where the blame lies totally at the feet of those who pushed for it. If we dont leave and there is violence as a result its still the fault of those that instigated Brexit. None of it would have happened without all this nonsense starting. The UK was ticking along fairly nicely before all this. Yes we had our problems but as will be soon revealed they will pale into insignificance once this sh1tstorm gets underway. Its already happening as you can see. Up until the referendum was announced your average Joe cited EU membership way down the list of their concerns. Once it was announced and the Brexpress and Mail got properly stuck in it was priority number 1. Be careful what you wish for because whichever way we go we are fooked as a nation now. No Barry thats the problem for you Remoaners ... The UK wasn't "ticking along fairy nicely before all this" , if it was 52% of folk wouldnt have voted to leave ... Your little village might have been ticking along nicely but for many their areas weren't , you find that hard to accept ... Back on topic princess , where was your abuse concern when Nigel Farage was receiving left wing abuse for years and years ... Thats right Barry it dint bother ya ... Hypocrite Just about everyone now, even a lot of Brexiteers admit we will be worse off post Brexit so if for some it all wasnt ticking along nicely as you say then how is voting to make yourself poorer going to help people in poorer areas that ironically will be hit the hardest? I can see why they voted out though. Partly because they were lied to and promised something better and partly to vote against Cameron for something different. Tragic. I Dont remember Nigel being abused apart from when he had to hide in a pub when he got abused in Scotland which was quite funny. I guess that is a bit hypocritical, soz. :-D What was the biggest issue with leave voters Barry ??? Immigration of course so in many voters view we weren't "ticking along nicely" ... You may have been in your unaffected village but many others weren't ... As for Nigels abuse hes had threats for years , including death threats and you seriously cant remember Gob Geldof screaming Thames abuse at him ... Why dont we pull up that old Jacob Rees Mogg thread to see what was said at the time he was attacked with his nanny and children and had some idiot saying stuff to his kids ??? The hypocrisy on here is breath taking at times Which we now know wont ever change, that EU immigrants make the biggest contribution to our economy, more than none EU immigrants and more than native Brits over their time here. Many it seems assumed it was getting shot of all immigrants not just those from the EU so if it was the main issue then its all been for nothing. I can remember Bob Geldof giving Farage the w***** sign on the thames. *-) I agree though that abuse of the kind we saw yesterday including involving Reeks children is unacceptable. Its clear many do think it is though. you should read the Daily Mail comments pages from yesterday people actually condoning and supporting this behaviour. Not seen many Brexiteers speaking out against yesterdays abuse to be fair, including on here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I think it did no harm for an MP to have a taste of reality in the real world as so many of them have no idea of it in their cossetted little world. No doubt there will be calls for a Police presence around Westminster to prevent this happening again. Now that is REAL hypocrisy, considering they have reduced Police numbers by a large percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 If the Anna Sourface thinks the abuse is bad now ;-) ............ Imagine what it'll be like if she manages to help thwart Brexit 8-) ........... Surely Remoaners don't think things will return to how they were before the referendum? >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-01-08 7:42 AM antony1969 - 2019-01-08 6:37 AM Barryd999 - 2019-01-07 9:02 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 7:35 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-07 7:03 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 5:45 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:41 PM pelmetman - 2019-01-07 5:14 PM...…………….If you do manage stop Brexit .......don't be surprised if there is murder on the streets........and it'll be the fault of you anti democratic remoaners :-| ......… The only person who can be responsible for murder is the murderer. Trying to enter a defence that one's victim disagreed with you over the national interest, and called you something you didn't like, just wouldn't work! You obviously didn't see or maybe you did and conveniently didn't post when Barry the other day blamed all 17 million leave voters for any hate crime/murder he could associate with Brexit ... 17 million to blame not just the hater I think I listed more than murder and hate crime as a consequence of Brexit where the blame lies totally at the feet of those who pushed for it. If we dont leave and there is violence as a result its still the fault of those that instigated Brexit. None of it would have happened without all this nonsense starting. The UK was ticking along fairly nicely before all this. Yes we had our problems but as will be soon revealed they will pale into insignificance once this sh1tstorm gets underway. Its already happening as you can see. Up until the referendum was announced your average Joe cited EU membership way down the list of their concerns. Once it was announced and the Brexpress and Mail got properly stuck in it was priority number 1. Be careful what you wish for because whichever way we go we are fooked as a nation now. No Barry thats the problem for you Remoaners ... The UK wasn't "ticking along fairy nicely before all this" , if it was 52% of folk wouldnt have voted to leave ... Your little village might have been ticking along nicely but for many their areas weren't , you find that hard to accept ... Back on topic princess , where was your abuse concern when Nigel Farage was receiving left wing abuse for years and years ... Thats right Barry it dint bother ya ... Hypocrite Just about everyone now, even a lot of Brexiteers admit we will be worse off post Brexit so if for some it all wasnt ticking along nicely as you say then how is voting to make yourself poorer going to help people in poorer areas that ironically will be hit the hardest? I can see why they voted out though. Partly because they were lied to and promised something better and partly to vote against Cameron for something different. Tragic. I Dont remember Nigel being abused apart from when he had to hide in a pub when he got abused in Scotland which was quite funny. I guess that is a bit hypocritical, soz. :-D What was the biggest issue with leave voters Barry ??? Immigration of course so in many voters view we weren't "ticking along nicely" ... You may have been in your unaffected village but many others weren't ... As for Nigels abuse hes had threats for years , including death threats and you seriously cant remember Gob Geldof screaming Thames abuse at him ... Why dont we pull up that old Jacob Rees Mogg thread to see what was said at the time he was attacked with his nanny and children and had some idiot saying stuff to his kids ??? The hypocrisy on here is breath taking at times Which we now know wont ever change, that EU immigrants make the biggest contribution to our economy, more than none EU immigrants and more than native Brits over their time here. Many it seems assumed it was getting shot of all immigrants not just those from the EU so if it was the main issue then its all been for nothing. I can remember Bob Geldof giving Farage the w***** sign on the thames. *-) I agree though that abuse of the kind we saw yesterday including involving Reeks children is unacceptable. Its clear many do think it is though. you should read the Daily Mail comments pages from yesterday people actually condoning and supporting this behaviour. Not seen many Brexiteers speaking out against yesterdays abuse to be fair, including on here.. You see there you go again ... Insulting large numbers of Brexit voters "many it seems assumed it was getting shot of all immigrants" ... Your saying "many" , how many is many in your view because that's a pretty damning claim ??? ... I believe with that claim your back to calling Brexiteers either thick or racist or both yet you condemn those who call an MP a Nazi/traitor/liar ... Total hypocrisy Barry , absolutely stinks of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Tracker - 2019-01-07 5:54 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:34 PM If that should prove the case, I just hope they do a proper job of explaining what the consequences of Brexit are likely to be for the future living standards of our fellow countrymen under all presently available scenarios: no deal, Teresa's deal, and remain. I can't argue with that Brian as long as the consequences of remaining in an EU whose federal one size fits all strongest subsidising the rest ambitions would probably have been bolstered by a UK vote for remain are clearly set out too. Not that it would mean that we love the EU but by the vote for remaining in the EU being seen least worst option in the short term by an electorate brow beaten into submission by the constant bombardment of woe by the remainers. There are many people who do not like the EU but with families, mortgages and credit card debt to protect they are justifiably scared witless for their own futures by the scare mongering tactics of the campaign to date. Who could argue with that? I think it is a bit Europhobic, but a dash of scepticism never did anyone any harm. Subsidising the rest I think a little unfair. The idea is to accelerate their economic development through investment (mainly in infrastructure), so that they catch up more quickly with the more developed European economies, meaning their standards of living improve, so that instead of being merely the source of cheap labour and production, they become more equal and contribute to the overall wealth of Europe as a whole. Spend a bit now, to get back more in future. It's the usual reason to invest. What concerns me is that whereas the remain camp focused on the potential downsides of Brexit, the Brexit camp gave these no acknowledgement at all, instead merely dismissing them as "project fear". The response was of emotion, not reason, and presented no intelligible counter-narrative. Where, apart from vague promises of a glorious sunset just over the horizon, is their vision for the UK post Brexit, with the amount of detail set out by the remain camp? No rationalist could ever be confident in its absence that there was such a view, let alone have confidence that it might hold water. All we got was emotion and wishful thinking set against rational, thoughtful, reason. Those concerned about their Brexit futures are not, IMO, being scared witless, but merely invited to consider whether Brexit gives them the best economic prospects for themselves and their families. That is what sensible people should do when confronted with decisions where the heart and the head are in conflict. It is how we progress. In the absence of wealth, none of us has choice - we just have to take what we are given. We all face such decisions from time to time - they are not optional. In truth, if the worst decision any of us has to make is whether we should suppress some of our doubts over an organisation that we can, and have, influenced (and could still leave at any time should circumstances demand), in favour of staying with it and continuing, by our presence, to influence it and so benefit our economic stability, it is hardly the most onerous decision in history. Others have faced far more visceral decisions in the past, and many still do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Soubry was certainly hounded yesterday ... Anyone know who said these famous words "I want to be in a position where no Tory MP can travel anywhere without being hounded" ... He's gotta be happy with yesterday's abuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-07 5:45 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:41 PM pelmetman - 2019-01-07 5:14 PM...…………….If you do manage stop Brexit .......don't be surprised if there is murder on the streets........and it'll be the fault of you anti democratic remoaners :-| ......… The only person who can be responsible for murder is the murderer. Trying to enter a defence that one's victim disagreed with you over the national interest, and called you something you didn't like, just wouldn't work! You obviously didn't see or maybe you did and conveniently didn't post when Barry the other day blamed all 17 million leave voters for any hate crime/murder he could associate with Brexit ... 17 million to blame not just the hater This is nonsense, Antony. The blame lies with the individual. I haven't seen any posts from anyone who suggested the 17 million Brexiters were responsible for crimes of any sort - 'though I have seen a few posts that attribute some crimes to individual Brexiters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 thebishbus - 2019-01-07 6:03 PM With our voting system, first past the post wins,end of . You remainers remind me of losers in third world countries, always calling foul. Grow up and accept our democracy as it is , or try to change it to what you want. Brian B. This is a logical contradiction. Our democracy is based on the election of MPs to make decisions in parliament. It is not based on referendums, and the Brexit vote continues to demonstrate why. The referendum was a catastrophic abrogation of responsibility on the part of those we elect. I suspect many of us would like to see the electoral system changed - to one that is more sensitive to public opinion and, had this been done, it is at least arguable that the referendum would not have happened. Under such a system the issues that underlie Brexit would have been addressed before they became so contentious. Instead, first past the post not won. Some victory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-08 6:37 AM...……………………..What was the biggest issue with leave voters Barry ??? Immigration of course so in many voters view we weren't "ticking along nicely" ... ………………... The perfect example! Immigration was and is not an EU matter. Those who think it was have been misinformed. Immigration was, and is, a UK government matter, and the migrants are here because successive Governments have chosen to let them in. They will continue to do so, because both main parties see economic advantage to allowing migrants in. This has been stated, with supporting evidence, on this forum on any number of occasions. It is fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-01-08 1:03 PM This is a logical contradiction. Our democracy is based on the election of MPs to make decisions in parliament. It is not based on referendums, and the Brexit vote continues to demonstrate why. This is a illogical representation of our democracy :-| ........ So why do they bother to produce manifestos? *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-01-08 1:11 PM Immigration was and is not an EU matter. Those who think it was have been misinformed. To what does this refer to then Brian? :-| .......... "Free movement of workers is a fundamental principle of the Treaty enshrined in Article 45 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union and developed by EU secondary legislation and the Case law of the Court of Justice. EU citizens are entitled to: look for a job in another EU country." "Free movement" is exactly the same as Immigration except there is NO CONTROL *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-01-08 12:45 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 5:45 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:41 PM pelmetman - 2019-01-07 5:14 PM...…………….If you do manage stop Brexit .......don't be surprised if there is murder on the streets........and it'll be the fault of you anti democratic remoaners :-| ......… The only person who can be responsible for murder is the murderer. Trying to enter a defence that one's victim disagreed with you over the national interest, and called you something you didn't like, just wouldn't work! You obviously didn't see or maybe you did and conveniently didn't post when Barry the other day blamed all 17 million leave voters for any hate crime/murder he could associate with Brexit ... 17 million to blame not just the hater This is nonsense, Antony. The blame lies with the individual. I haven't seen any posts from anyone who suggested the 17 million Brexiters were responsible for crimes of any sort - 'though I have seen a few posts that attribute some crimes to individual Brexiters.[/QUOT Totally agree its nonsense but maybe youd be better telling the fella that posted the original claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-08 6:25 AM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 9:47 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 8:12 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 7:58 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 6:09 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 6:02 PM Tracker - 2019-01-07 5:54 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:34 PM If that should prove the case, I just hope they do a proper job of explaining what the consequences of Brexit are likely to be for the future living standards of our fellow countrymen under all presently available scenarios: no deal, Teresa's deal, and remain. There are many people who do not like the EU but with families, mortgages and credit card debt to protect they are justifiably scared witless for their own futures by the scare mongering tactics of the campaign to date. Now at a record high with an average household over £15k in debt and nationally the amount is a staggering £428 billion. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/07/average-uk-household-debt-now-stands-at-record-15400 £15k in debt ... phones , cars , mortgages they cant keep up with , holidays , clothes , eating out ??? Your not telling us why they are in debt. The article did.....if only you'd bothered to read it instead of guessing and assuming. *-) No princess it doesnt ... It does bang on about student loans but doesnt tell us in any detail why and what those that you claim are £15k in debt have spent their cash on .. Are you seriously so thick and need to have everything read back to you like a little child, or purely being your usual obtuse self? Public spending cuts and years of wage stagnation are key reasons for the increase in unsecured debt, the TUC said, adding that working families are on average worse off today than before the financial crisis. The rise of the gig economy and zero-hours contracts are also thought to be a significant contributing factor. Years of austerity and wage stagnation has pushed millions of families deep into the red. O’Grady said the minimum wage, at £7.83 an hour for over-25s, remained too low and should be raised to £10 “as quickly as possible”. She also said too few workers had the power to bargain for higher wages, and trade unions must be given the freedom to enter all workplaces and organise collective wage bargaining. Its data shows that in 1998, households faced average unsecured debts of £5,456. A decade later, just as the financial crisis was starting, that sum had doubled to £11,146. Since 2008 households have been struggling with flat or falling incomes, at a time when prices have risen fast. In October, the Bank of England’s chief economist, Andy Haldane, said the rise of insecure work in the gig economy had fuelled a “lost decade” of wage growth in Britain. In the same month, the Office for National Statistics said the acceleration in wages growth seen in the middle of 2018 still left real pay £11 a week lower than it was before the financial crisis erupted. For starters I dont put much faith in anything the TUC says ... To be in debt princess means youve spent some money somewhere and if your £15k in debt like you suggest as some kind of average then youve spent a lot of money somewhere ... I'll ask again , can you show on what these folk in debt have spent money on ??? The TUC and ONS certainly have far more credibility with documenting facts than some part time roofer in Yorkshire! The contributing factors leading to debt are very clearly explained in the article and if you don't understand it it, then fine, but at least say so rather than you don't "have faith" in what they say as that suggests you do understand it.....but don't like what you see. I would have thought as a 'supposed' business person you had some grasp of what averages mean hence the £15k figure. That doesn't mean every single household in UK. Some will have much more than that whilst others will have less. I don't have any debt at all. Not because i'm 'loaded' but because i cannot afford debt simple as that. I'm lucky in that owning a house outright i have an asset so worst case scenario i could always sell or raise cash on that.....other people are not so lucky. Some less fortunate, living rented, maybe faced job losses, end up getting kicked out after being unable to meet payments. There's a varying number of reasons people end up in debt and i know from an ex-work colleague it's a damn sight easier to fall into debt than what it is to get out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-01-08 2:05 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-08 6:25 AM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 9:47 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 8:12 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 7:58 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 6:09 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-07 6:02 PM Tracker - 2019-01-07 5:54 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:34 PM If that should prove the case, I just hope they do a proper job of explaining what the consequences of Brexit are likely to be for the future living standards of our fellow countrymen under all presently available scenarios: no deal, Teresa's deal, and remain. There are many people who do not like the EU but with families, mortgages and credit card debt to protect they are justifiably scared witless for their own futures by the scare mongering tactics of the campaign to date. Now at a record high with an average household over £15k in debt and nationally the amount is a staggering £428 billion. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/07/average-uk-household-debt-now-stands-at-record-15400 £15k in debt ... phones , cars , mortgages they cant keep up with , holidays , clothes , eating out ??? Your not telling us why they are in debt. The article did.....if only you'd bothered to read it instead of guessing and assuming. *-) No princess it doesnt ... It does bang on about student loans but doesnt tell us in any detail why and what those that you claim are £15k in debt have spent their cash on .. Are you seriously so thick and need to have everything read back to you like a little child, or purely being your usual obtuse self? Public spending cuts and years of wage stagnation are key reasons for the increase in unsecured debt, the TUC said, adding that working families are on average worse off today than before the financial crisis. The rise of the gig economy and zero-hours contracts are also thought to be a significant contributing factor. Years of austerity and wage stagnation has pushed millions of families deep into the red. O’Grady said the minimum wage, at £7.83 an hour for over-25s, remained too low and should be raised to £10 “as quickly as possible”. She also said too few workers had the power to bargain for higher wages, and trade unions must be given the freedom to enter all workplaces and organise collective wage bargaining. Its data shows that in 1998, households faced average unsecured debts of £5,456. A decade later, just as the financial crisis was starting, that sum had doubled to £11,146. Since 2008 households have been struggling with flat or falling incomes, at a time when prices have risen fast. In October, the Bank of England’s chief economist, Andy Haldane, said the rise of insecure work in the gig economy had fuelled a “lost decade” of wage growth in Britain. In the same month, the Office for National Statistics said the acceleration in wages growth seen in the middle of 2018 still left real pay £11 a week lower than it was before the financial crisis erupted. For starters I dont put much faith in anything the TUC says ... To be in debt princess means youve spent some money somewhere and if your £15k in debt like you suggest as some kind of average then youve spent a lot of money somewhere ... I'll ask again , can you show on what these folk in debt have spent money on ??? The TUC and ONS certainly have far more credibility with documenting facts than some part time roofer in Yorkshire! The contributing factors leading to debt are very clearly explained in the article and if you don't understand it it, then fine, but at least say so rather than you don't "have faith" in what they say as that suggests you do understand it.....but don't like what you see. I would have thought as a 'supposed' business person you had some grasp of what averages mean hence the £15k figure. That doesn't mean every single household in UK. Some will have much more than that whilst others will have less. I don't have any debt at all. Not because i'm 'loaded' but because i cannot afford debt simple as that. I'm lucky in that owning a house outright i have an asset so worst case scenario i could always sell or raise cash on that.....other people are not so lucky. Some less fortunate, living rented, maybe faced job losses, end up getting kicked out after being unable to meet payments. There's a varying number of reasons people end up in debt and i know from an ex-work colleague it's a damn sight easier to fall into debt than what it is to get out of it. Posting up your financial situation as some sort of deflection wont cut it ... I ask again , what have those you say are in debt purchased to put them in debt ??? Your eager enough to tell us folk are in debt but cant back up why ??? ... I have asked a few times now and you've produced nothing other than summat to do with a roofer in Yorkshire rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-01-08 1:20 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-08 1:11 PM Immigration was and is not an EU matter. Those who think it was have been misinformed. To what does this refer to then Brian? :-| .......... "Free movement of workers is a fundamental principle of the Treaty enshrined in Article 45 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union and developed by EU secondary legislation and the Case law of the Court of Justice. EU citizens are entitled to: look for a job in another EU country." "Free movement" is exactly the same as Immigration except there is NO CONTROL *-) ........ All answered in the links Brian opened this thread with..........but you never read them did you? They UK gov......why won't you read them? https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/Have-we-been-deliberately-misled-/50904/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-08 2:13 PM Posting up your financial situation as some sort of deflection wont cut it ... I ask again , what have those you say are in debt purchased to put them in debt ??? Your eager enough to tell us folk are in debt but cant back up why ??? ... I have asked a few times now and you've produced nothing other than summat to do with a roofer in Yorkshire rubbish Ok it's obvious now you're just trolling for the sake of being ridiculously obtuse. I post a linked article so i'm just the messenger. I'm not playing your silly game just to entertain your childish strops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-01-08 2:20 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-08 2:13 PM Posting up your financial situation as some sort of deflection wont cut it ... I ask again , what have those you say are in debt purchased to put them in debt ??? Your eager enough to tell us folk are in debt but cant back up why ??? ... I have asked a few times now and you've produced nothing other than summat to do with a roofer in Yorkshire rubbish Ok it's obvious now you're just trolling for the sake of being ridiculously obtuse. I post a linked article so i'm just the messenger. I'm not playing your silly game just to entertain your childish strops. I'll translate you've posted a link and you've made a Hollywood claim that you cant back up so now your reverting back to normal with insults ... It of course would have been easier to just say "I don't know" to my question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 747 - 2019-01-08 8:08 AM I think it did no harm for an MP to have a taste of reality in the real world as so many of them have no idea of it in their cossetted little world. No doubt there will be calls for a Police presence around Westminster to prevent this happening again. Now that is REAL hypocrisy, considering they have reduced Police numbers by a large percentage. I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree more strongly with this sentiment. Of course it does harm. It is no more than a mob trying to shout down a viewpoint they don't like. How are we to arrive at answers to difficult questions if opposing viewpoints are not to be heard? Do we just fight it out on the streets, and accept that he with the biggest weapon wins - until, of course, someone arrives with a bigger weapon? Are all issues then to be decided with an arms race, war, or what? Besides which, a slogan chanting fascist (by their actions) mob calling one of the least right wing MPs in the Conservative party a Nazi, hardly inspires confidence in their powers of reason, does it? So why/how should we defer to their intellects? This was no "dose of reality" - though it may be what is to become reality. Is everyone now supposed to expect a baying mob to greet them when they arrive to do their jobs? Or should we reserve the mob greeting just for those who take on jobs that place them in the public arena, while expecting them to "listen" to us? If so, who then is to do those jobs, and under what conditions? Do we want normal people to enter politics, or only those who are prepared to run a mob gauntlet? Should they then all come and go incognito, from guarded locations, being hidden from public view in case the mob turns violent and decides, as was the case with the murderer of Jo Cox, that they should be eliminated? Is this to be the new model for a "civilised" society? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-01-08 9:35 AM If the Anna Sourface thinks the abuse is bad now ;-) ............ Imagine what it'll be like if she manages to help thwart Brexit 8-) ........... Surely Remoaners don't think things will return to how they were before the referendum? >:-) ......... In which case, surely Brexiters don't think things will return to how they were before the referendum? And what then? We shall all really have lost our country. For what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-08 9:40 AM Barryd999 - 2019-01-08 7:42 AM antony1969 - 2019-01-08 6:37 AM Barryd999 - 2019-01-07 9:02 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 7:35 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-07 7:03 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-07 5:45 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-07 5:41 PM pelmetman - 2019-01-07 5:14 PM...…………….If you do manage stop Brexit .......don't be surprised if there is murder on the streets........and it'll be the fault of you anti democratic remoaners :-| ......… The only person who can be responsible for murder is the murderer. Trying to enter a defence that one's victim disagreed with you over the national interest, and called you something you didn't like, just wouldn't work! You obviously didn't see or maybe you did and conveniently didn't post when Barry the other day blamed all 17 million leave voters for any hate crime/murder he could associate with Brexit ... 17 million to blame not just the hater I think I listed more than murder and hate crime as a consequence of Brexit where the blame lies totally at the feet of those who pushed for it. If we dont leave and there is violence as a result its still the fault of those that instigated Brexit. None of it would have happened without all this nonsense starting. The UK was ticking along fairly nicely before all this. Yes we had our problems but as will be soon revealed they will pale into insignificance once this sh1tstorm gets underway. Its already happening as you can see. Up until the referendum was announced your average Joe cited EU membership way down the list of their concerns. Once it was announced and the Brexpress and Mail got properly stuck in it was priority number 1. Be careful what you wish for because whichever way we go we are fooked as a nation now. No Barry thats the problem for you Remoaners ... The UK wasn't "ticking along fairy nicely before all this" , if it was 52% of folk wouldnt have voted to leave ... Your little village might have been ticking along nicely but for many their areas weren't , you find that hard to accept ... Back on topic princess , where was your abuse concern when Nigel Farage was receiving left wing abuse for years and years ... Thats right Barry it dint bother ya ... Hypocrite Just about everyone now, even a lot of Brexiteers admit we will be worse off post Brexit so if for some it all wasnt ticking along nicely as you say then how is voting to make yourself poorer going to help people in poorer areas that ironically will be hit the hardest? I can see why they voted out though. Partly because they were lied to and promised something better and partly to vote against Cameron for something different. Tragic. I Dont remember Nigel being abused apart from when he had to hide in a pub when he got abused in Scotland which was quite funny. I guess that is a bit hypocritical, soz. :-D What was the biggest issue with leave voters Barry ??? Immigration of course so in many voters view we weren't "ticking along nicely" ... You may have been in your unaffected village but many others weren't ... As for Nigels abuse hes had threats for years , including death threats and you seriously cant remember Gob Geldof screaming Thames abuse at him ... Why dont we pull up that old Jacob Rees Mogg thread to see what was said at the time he was attacked with his nanny and children and had some idiot saying stuff to his kids ??? The hypocrisy on here is breath taking at times Which we now know wont ever change, that EU immigrants make the biggest contribution to our economy, more than none EU immigrants and more than native Brits over their time here. Many it seems assumed it was getting shot of all immigrants not just those from the EU so if it was the main issue then its all been for nothing. I can remember Bob Geldof giving Farage the w***** sign on the thames. *-) I agree though that abuse of the kind we saw yesterday including involving Reeks children is unacceptable. Its clear many do think it is though. you should read the Daily Mail comments pages from yesterday people actually condoning and supporting this behaviour. Not seen many Brexiteers speaking out against yesterdays abuse to be fair, including on here.. You see there you go again ... Insulting large numbers of Brexit voters "many it seems assumed it was getting shot of all immigrants" ... Your saying "many" , how many is many in your view because that's a pretty damning claim ??? ... I believe with that claim your back to calling Brexiteers either thick or racist or both yet you condemn those who call an MP a Nazi/traitor/liar ... Total hypocrisy Barry , absolutely stinks of it How is it insulting to say that Immigration was the major issue behind Brexit? Brian just quoted you saying the same thing. It was (is) but has been pointed out to you several times the government had the power to control immigration and chose not to. I think there has been a tendency for Brexiteers to deny that immigration was the key issue behind Brexit post vote but lets face it, it was. Ive lost count of the number of posts I saw across social media regarding kicking out immigrants regardless of where they were from. And lets not forget the infamous "Turkey is joining the EU and 80 millions Turks are on their way". They even had it put up on a road sign in Newcastle. Complete lie but clearly a vote winner along with the "Take back control of our borders". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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