Fast Pat Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-24 7:52 PM What the EU may or may not have alleged to have done for the UK in the past is not relevant, but is typical remoaner thinking. What would staying in, and paying in, to the EU do for the UK in the future is the question any intelligent person should have been asking for the last two years - and that does not look too clever to me? That would on average be about £60 per person a year, which given the rate of return would be £600 back. Although of course what is paid to the EU s a lot less than we pay to Northern Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-02-24 9:18 PM That would on average be about £60 per person a year, which given the rate of return would be £600 back. Although of course what is paid to the EU s a lot less than we pay to Northern Ireland. Are you seriously suggesting that the UK gets back 10 times what we pay in to the EU? Like it or not NI is part of the UK so do you resent the cost of NI whilst supporting the cost of the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-24 9:59 PM Fast Pat - 2019-02-24 9:18 PM That would on average be about £60 per person a year, which given the rate of return would be £600 back. Although of course what is paid to the EU s a lot less than we pay to Northern Ireland. Are you seriously suggesting that the UK gets back 10 times what we pay in to the EU? Like it or not NI is part of the UK so do you resent the cost of NI whilst supporting the cost of the EU? I'm not, the CBI and a host of other experts are: http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/ The support we give to NI has doubled because of May's deal with the DUP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-02-24 10:20 PM I'm not, the CBI and a host of other experts are: http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/ The support we give to NI has doubled because of May's deal with the DUP. Oh I see, not your own ideas at all, just ones conveniently cherry picked from t'web! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-02-24 10:20 PM Tracker - 2019-02-24 9:59 PM Fast Pat - 2019-02-24 9:18 PM That would on average be about £60 per person a year, which given the rate of return would be £600 back. Although of course what is paid to the EU s a lot less than we pay to Northern Ireland. Are you seriously suggesting that the UK gets back 10 times what we pay in to the EU? Like it or not NI is part of the UK so do you resent the cost of NI whilst supporting the cost of the EU? I'm not, the CBI and a host of other experts are: http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/ The support we give to NI has doubled because of May's deal with the DUP. At least a 100% of the money given to the DUP will be spent in the UK B-) ............. Unlike the billions we give to the EU *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-24 9:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-24 8:07 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-24 2:47 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-24 9:13 AM So if we stayed in the EU Honda would stay? ;-) .............. Much more likely than leaving the EU....after all Japan had warned government over three years ago that "Brexit could result in them moving their companies out of UK if EU laws cease to be applicable in the UK". So the warnings were there but you weren't interested, didn't listen, and went ahead hence the reason i said, 'you voted to throw thousands of people out of work' which you've now done. Well then your even more stupid than I ever gave you credit for *-) ....... The Honda workers fate was sealed when the EU aka Germany signed the FTA with Japan :-| ..... Now you really are coming out with utter rubbish here Pelmet. Honda began negotiating fta's with EU over six years ago back in 2013 finalising them in 2017. You've had this pointed out to you before from Brian and it concerns a massive market of 27 countries.....not one. We could have been in that market enabling Honda to continue production here with the same agreements but you lot chose to throw it down the pan and chuck thousands of people out of work. You voted for that so don't even attempt blame shifting over everything that's gone wrong because you were warned. What has the start date for negotiations got to do with anything? :-S ........... It's the fact that Honda decided to pack their bags 10 days after it came into force tells us everything we need to know ;-) ......... Because if it was about Brexit then surely they'd be relocating to the EU????? >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Today's special offer........Get two posts for the price of one :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-24 10:58 PM Fast Pat - 2019-02-24 10:20 PM I'm not, the CBI and a host of other experts are: http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/ The support we give to NI has doubled because of May's deal with the DUP. Oh I see, not your own ideas at all, just ones conveniently cherry picked from t'web! Rich. this was a big part of the Remain campaign literature back in 2016. For every £1 we put into the EU we get £10 back and it does check out more or less. There is a detailed and fair independent fact checking blog about that flyer and the claim here. https://medium.com/im-trying-to-fact-check-brexit/fact-checking-remain-do-we-get-10-for-every-1-we-put-into-the-eu-62085b8d7cb0 The Brexiteers at the time didnt or couldnt debunk all that but back then they were suggesting that we could do so much better than that! It was all about how we were going to get all these fantastic new trade deals that would far outreach what we have now and we would get to keep all the good bits of our deal with the EU. Hows all that gone then? Not much talk of that now is there? Now its either talk about "how it was never about the economy" or "we will survive" or "it wont be as bad as some are making out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-25 8:11 AM Bulletguy - 2019-02-24 9:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-24 8:07 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-24 2:47 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-24 9:13 AM So if we stayed in the EU Honda would stay? ;-) .............. Much more likely than leaving the EU....after all Japan had warned government over three years ago that "Brexit could result in them moving their companies out of UK if EU laws cease to be applicable in the UK". So the warnings were there but you weren't interested, didn't listen, and went ahead hence the reason i said, 'you voted to throw thousands of people out of work' which you've now done. Well then your even more stupid than I ever gave you credit for *-) ....... The Honda workers fate was sealed when the EU aka Germany signed the FTA with Japan :-| ..... Now you really are coming out with utter rubbish here Pelmet. Honda began negotiating fta's with EU over six years ago back in 2013 finalising them in 2017. You've had this pointed out to you before from Brian and it concerns a massive market of 27 countries.....not one. We could have been in that market enabling Honda to continue production here with the same agreements but you lot chose to throw it down the pan and chuck thousands of people out of work. You voted for that so don't even attempt blame shifting over everything that's gone wrong because you were warned. What has the start date for negotiations got to do with anything? :-S ........... It's the fact that Honda decided to pack their bags 10 days after it came into force tells us everything we need to know ;-) ......... Because if it was about Brexit then surely they'd be relocating to the EU????? >:-) ....... Oh FGS Pelmet are you simply being disingenuous or are you seriously thick? Listen up because i'm not going over this again and i can't keep potty training you. 1) Honda began their negotiations for fta's with EU over six years ago.....so waaaaay before any hint or suggestion UK might be considering seeking to leave the EU. So yes, that's an important point as it shows Honda intended to continue operations in UK as long as they had access to the EU market which we did. 2) Japans foreign ministry warned UK government over three years ago that Brexit could result in the country's firms moving "if EU laws cease to be applicable in the UK". In short, loss of fta's and JIT delivery, essential for them to function. 3) That Honda "packed their bags" tells us they found themselves in a hopeless position in a country whose government blatantly ignored their ample warnings, and a country they could not operate in due to UK losing fta's and JIT with EU and disrupting their business. 4) They don't need to "relocate to any EU country" you cluck head. The country they're relocating to quite sensibly has all those necessary agreements with the EU we once had. With Brexit, you lot threw all this down the pan in pursuit of your silly "win". You've openly stated you "don't care" about anyone losing their jobs so the fact 7000 folk will be out of work in less than two years is down to what you voted for and it doesn't bother you does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Reverting to the original topic, on the basis that there has never been a year that the EEC / EU gave us benefits adding up to more than the contibutions we gave them, one may well ask what the EU has done for us? What indeed one may well ask, that we couldn't have done for ourselves with the taxation we all paid had we spent it on ourselves rather than given it to the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-25 5:37 PM Reverting to the original topic, on the basis that there has never been a year that the EEC / EU gave us benefits adding up to more than the contibutions we gave them, one may well ask what the EU has done for us? What indeed one may well ask, that we couldn't have done for ourselves with the taxation we all paid had we spent it on ourselves rather than given it to the EU? Well in my area they did provide funds to renovate properties in a fairly large Muslim area about 20 years ago ... At a guess I'd say about 200 houses ... Should've saved their/our money its a sh!thole now ... 1100 farmers in Bullshots area were helped , big farming area he lives in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-24 7:52 PM What the EU may or may not have alleged to have done for the UK in the past is not relevant, but is typical remoaner thinking. What would staying in, and paying in, to the EU do for the UK in the future is the question any intelligent person should have been asking for the last two years - and that does not look too clever to me? So, what is the EU budget for, and why do we contribute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-24 10:58 PM Fast Pat - 2019-02-24 10:20 PM I'm not, the CBI and a host of other experts are: http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/ The support we give to NI has doubled because of May's deal with the DUP. Oh I see, not your own ideas at all, just ones conveniently cherry picked from t'web! That's a cop-out Rich! It's a kind of ad-internetinem argument. The CBI (not a reliable source?) report may not say what Brexiters like to hear, but dismissing it because it comes from the web hardly counters the points made by the CBI. Most, if not all of us, have to rely for information on what we can read and hear, be it from newspapers, radio, TV, the internet or any other source. It starts when we go to school, with information coming from teachers and textbooks. If all we were to know is what we had, personally, experienced, we'd have the information base of mediaeval peasants! Fortunately, things have moved on a bit since those times. Come on, put 'em up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-25 6:39 PM If all we were to know is what we had, personally, experienced, we'd have the information base of mediaeval peasants! Fortunately, things have moved on a bit since those times. Come on, put 'em up! The means of acquisition of information was never in dispute Brian, but what you overlooked was the cherry picking of news snippets that only ever support one side of a debate - to be expected of course by those who support that view - but cherry picking nontheless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-25 6:24 PM So, what is the EU budget for, and why do we contribute? What and why indeed, well you might ask! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-02-25 5:42 PM Tracker - 2019-02-25 5:37 PM Reverting to the original topic, on the basis that there has never been a year that the EEC / EU gave us benefits adding up to more than the contibutions we gave them, one may well ask what the EU has done for us? What indeed one may well ask, that we couldn't have done for ourselves with the taxation we all paid had we spent it on ourselves rather than given it to the EU? Well in my area they did provide funds to renovate properties in a fairly large Muslim area about 20 years ago ... At a guess I'd say about 200 houses ... Should've saved their/our money its a sh!thole now ... This link shows funding amounts made and for what in any locality. Copy 'n paste the amounts and purpose it funded so we can see. https://www.myeu.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-25 8:29 PM antony1969 - 2019-02-25 5:42 PM Tracker - 2019-02-25 5:37 PM Reverting to the original topic, on the basis that there has never been a year that the EEC / EU gave us benefits adding up to more than the contibutions we gave them, one may well ask what the EU has done for us? What indeed one may well ask, that we couldn't have done for ourselves with the taxation we all paid had we spent it on ourselves rather than given it to the EU? Well in my area they did provide funds to renovate properties in a fairly large Muslim area about 20 years ago ... At a guess I'd say about 200 houses ... Should've saved their/our money its a sh!thole now ... This link shows funding amounts made and for what in any locality. Copy 'n paste the amounts and purpose it funded so we can see. https://www.myeu.uk/ Sorry ... WTF you on about ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-25 8:29 PM antony1969 - 2019-02-25 5:42 PM Tracker - 2019-02-25 5:37 PM Reverting to the original topic, on the basis that there has never been a year that the EEC / EU gave us benefits adding up to more than the contibutions we gave them, one may well ask what the EU has done for us? What indeed one may well ask, that we couldn't have done for ourselves with the taxation we all paid had we spent it on ourselves rather than given it to the EU? Well in my area they did provide funds to renovate properties in a fairly large Muslim area about 20 years ago ... At a guess I'd say about 200 houses ... Should've saved their/our money its a sh!thole now ... This link shows funding amounts made and for what in any locality. Copy 'n paste the amounts and purpose it funded so we can see. https://www.myeu.uk/ Oh what a lovely bunch of looneys they are - fancy that - they gave us some of our own money back - how kind of them - after first deducting their own costs and gravy train of course! Only a complete and utter idiot blind to reality would see that as a benefit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-25 7:28 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-25 6:39 PM If all we were to know is what we had, personally, experienced, we'd have the information base of mediaeval peasants! Fortunately, things have moved on a bit since those times. Come on, put 'em up! The means of acquisition of information was never in dispute Brian, but what you overlooked was the cherry picking of news snippets that only ever support one side of a debate - to be expected of course by those who support that view - but cherry picking nontheless! I fail to see how quoting average cost per individual is in any way "cherry picking". Is there really 'another side' which shows the average cost per individual to be much higher? How much is your contribution? If you have any recent tax code notice it shows it on there as "UK contribution to the EU budget" from which you can work out your own payment. It really is such a miniscule figure your annual amount wouldn't even be anywhere near enough to buy a full tank of fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-25 8:33 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-25 8:29 PM antony1969 - 2019-02-25 5:42 PM Tracker - 2019-02-25 5:37 PM Reverting to the original topic, on the basis that there has never been a year that the EEC / EU gave us benefits adding up to more than the contibutions we gave them, one may well ask what the EU has done for us? What indeed one may well ask, that we couldn't have done for ourselves with the taxation we all paid had we spent it on ourselves rather than given it to the EU? Well in my area they did provide funds to renovate properties in a fairly large Muslim area about 20 years ago ... At a guess I'd say about 200 houses ... Should've saved their/our money its a sh!thole now ... This link shows funding amounts made and for what in any locality. Copy 'n paste the amounts and purpose it funded so we can see. https://www.myeu.uk/ Oh what a lovely bunch of looneys they are - fancy that - they gave us some of our own money back - how kind of them - after first deducting their own costs and gravy train of course! Only a complete and utter idiot blind to reality would see that as a benefit! So come on Richard, seeing as you're so anti-EU and obviously a Brexiteer even though for some odd reason won't own up to it, explain what benefits and where all these vast £trillions were we must surely have had wallowing around in the country prior to joining the EEC. Where was it? What was it being spent on? Tell me you have something better than "they gave us some of 'our' money back". *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I have no idea and as it is all in the past I really don't care! It does not take a genius to deduce that if you get back less than you pay in then some other bugger(s) are getting the difference and even you should be able to understand that - but apparently not? Equally obviously the UK government would have spent our money differently, perhaps better, perhaps not, so it is never going to be possible to substantiate an unknown unquantifiable. If you wish to delude yourself that the EU is on your side and doing fantastic good things for the UK - then good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 If your really still thinking by now about the benefits of being a member of the EU being just about how much cash we get back then you really dont understand what being a member is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-02-25 8:32 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-25 8:29 PM antony1969 - 2019-02-25 5:42 PM Tracker - 2019-02-25 5:37 PM Reverting to the original topic, on the basis that there has never been a year that the EEC / EU gave us benefits adding up to more than the contibutions we gave them, one may well ask what the EU has done for us? What indeed one may well ask, that we couldn't have done for ourselves with the taxation we all paid had we spent it on ourselves rather than given it to the EU? Well in my area they did provide funds to renovate properties in a fairly large Muslim area about 20 years ago ... At a guess I'd say about 200 houses ... Should've saved their/our money its a sh!thole now ... This link shows funding amounts made and for what in any locality. Copy 'n paste the amounts and purpose it funded so we can see. https://www.myeu.uk/ Sorry ... WTF you on about ??? 1) Open this link > https://www.myeu.uk/ 2) Put town area in search bar. 3) Click search button....thats the little thing like a magnifying glass at the right. 4) Map then shows a number of coloured buttons. 5) Click on any one to show funding amount and purpose.....eg Works Better (Jobs and Growth) 2017–2020 The EU provided Kirklees Council with £2,644,959 to fund 50% of this project. 6) If any "EU funds to renovate 200 properties 20 years ago" were paid out, it will show on there and you can copy 'n paste to show on here.....like i just did with the figure to Kirklees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-25 10:14 PM I have no idea and as it is all in the past I really don't care! It does not take a genius to deduce that if you get back less than you pay in then some other bugger(s) are getting the difference and even you should be able to understand that - but apparently not? Equally obviously the UK government would have spent our money differently, perhaps better, perhaps not, so it is never going to be possible to substantiate an unknown unquantifiable. If you wish to delude yourself that the EU is on your side and doing fantastic good things for the UK - then good luck with that. 1) At worst that's just another cop out! At best it sounds like the sort of answer a rotten gambler gives when asked where all his money has gone. 2) It shouldn't take one to figure the personal cost either if you followed what i wrote in the previous post. It really is a miniscule figure. A chap on another forum posted a screen shot of his tax coding and his contribution worked out at approx £40 for a year. He didn't mention what his job is but said he earns above average income, so for someone earning less i expect it would be lower. We're talking seriously miniscule amounts per individual here Richard i can't believe you're quibbling over such a tiny amount. Some folk will easily pee that down a pub drain during an evening out and think nothing of it. 3) So prior to joining the EEC you cannot think of anything at all UK did in this country with such vast huge amounts of wealth Brexiteers appear to believe has been taken away by the 'wicked' EU?!!! We had smoky old steam trains up to the late 60's which is nice nostalgia but wasn't a very efficient mode of transport whilst more progressive countries had long gone electrified. But at least we still owned our own railways then, unlike now where much of it is owned by errrm.....EU countries after UK gov flogged it off! You could try buying it back off them......after all you do still want to "take back control" don't you? 4) Oh i don't just think the EU has done 'fantastic good things for the UK', i believe it still could and would have done. Not totally perfect but then what is? As a member state we could have still had a voice at the table though our imperialist attitude would have had to change. Just out of interest i looked at a local University and EU funding into that is in £millions.....that benefits everyone even though short sighted deniers will disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-25 11:11 PM antony1969 - 2019-02-25 8:32 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-25 8:29 PM antony1969 - 2019-02-25 5:42 PM Tracker - 2019-02-25 5:37 PM Reverting to the original topic, on the basis that there has never been a year that the EEC / EU gave us benefits adding up to more than the contibutions we gave them, one may well ask what the EU has done for us? What indeed one may well ask, that we couldn't have done for ourselves with the taxation we all paid had we spent it on ourselves rather than given it to the EU? Well in my area they did provide funds to renovate properties in a fairly large Muslim area about 20 years ago ... At a guess I'd say about 200 houses ... Should've saved their/our money its a sh!thole now ... This link shows funding amounts made and for what in any locality. Copy 'n paste the amounts and purpose it funded so we can see. https://www.myeu.uk/ Sorry ... WTF you on about ??? 1) Open this link > https://www.myeu.uk/ 2) Put town area in search bar. 3) Click search button....thats the little thing like a magnifying glass at the right. 4) Map then shows a number of coloured buttons. 5) Click on any one to show funding amount and purpose.....eg Works Better (Jobs and Growth) 2017–2020 The EU provided Kirklees Council with £2,644,959 to fund 50% of this project. 6) If any "EU funds to renovate 200 properties 20 years ago" were paid out, it will show on there and you can copy 'n paste to show on here.....like i just did with the figure to Kirklees. I wonder how much of OUR MONEY the EU wastes on telling us how well they spend OUR MONEY? >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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