2.3 Ducato 2012 - Starter Battery Replacement

[paid2travel]

After one very cold night, my battery tried but failed to successfully start the engine.

 

I haven't attempted any jump start options after doing some quick research in this area and I don't know how old the battery is as I've recently bought the MH from abroad and the garage had it stationary since April. Didn't have any issues driving back but one cold night back here seems to indicate that it might be sensible to look at replacing it rather than trying to get some charge in it again and hope for the best.

 

A previous thread 'Ducato starter battery' suggested an option of obtaining a dual purpose battery ie; (Varta LFD90) to offer more flexibility whereby I could swap the starter battery (after a few years use) with one of my leisure batteries to prolong the life of both.

 

If this seems logical, would I need to follow any particular battery replacement procedure or can I just simply disconnect pos & neg terminals and exchange with new?

 

Thanks

Martin

 

 

[colin]

Can you just clarify how long between you last driving it and then it failing to start.

As for jump starting, due to me leaving our van too long between trips without keeping battery topped up I've had to use a starter charger several times, and jump start it once, no issues at all as long as you make sure you let it charge for several minutes ( I like to have minimum of 10mins) before attempting to start.

p.s. I've fitted a LFD90 and it's not been any better at retaining charge than the previous Fiat supplied battery.

[Alanb]

paid2travel - 2019-11-10 7:17 PM

 

 

 

If this seems logical, would I need to follow any particular battery replacement procedure or can I just simply disconnect pos & neg terminals and exchange with new?

 

Thanks

Martin

 

 

Most probably it's just the way that you wrote it, but please for your own safety disconnect the negative first, and then the positive.

 

When connecting the reverse applies. Positive first and then the negative.

 

Alan

[paid2travel]

Thanks Colin,

 

The last decent drive (25 miles) it had was 3 weeks ago. I also took it out around the block about 10 days ago but haven't tried starting it since then.

 

I don't yet have additional devices like solar panel, electric alarm systems etc.

 

Just been looking at AA Solar Panel Car & Caravan Battery Charger for around £23 but not sure now, due to some dubious reviews, ref overcharging etc.

 

From what I'm reading about MH engine batteries, they don't appear to retain charge as good as cars so I may have to invest in a starter charger pack but even those appear to be a risk of damaging the on-board electrics?

 

 

[paid2travel]

Ok, thanks Alan

[colin]

You don't say what van you have and the year, but if it's a x250 with no alarm 10 days seems a bit short. After my experiences of flat batteries I fitted a 40w solar panel to side of van shed which I coupled up when van was parked, worked very well for several years, but now we have wired up the van shed to mains and I plug the van in occasionally.

[paid2travel]

It's a Hymer Carado 2012.

 

It's at home so I'm wondering whether if I hook up to my mains for long enough, would the starter battery also receive charge, or does the leisure batteries only get charged via hook up?

[Derek Uzzell]

This link lists vehicle battery data including dimension figures

 

https://www.puretyre.co.uk/car-battery-specification-chart/

 

The standard battery for a Ducato X250/X290 has a “019” code., but for Ducatos with the 3.0litre motor a longer “020” battery was specified with a higher capacity (110Ah instead of 95Ah). A “020” battery is the largest that will fit in the cab-floor battery compartment, but might be worth considering if a “019” battery is to be replaced.

 

It needs highlighting that the original Ducato starter-battery (as shown in the photo above) is NOT ‘non-maintainable’, in that its cell-caps are removable to allow the electrolyte-level to be checked and, if necessary, topped up. As has been observed in the past here, accessing all 6 cell-caps is not easily practicable, but if the electrolyte-level does fall significantly the battery will die.

 

If the starter-battery in a 2012 Ducato is the original one and is showing symptoms of senility, just replace it - seven years is a reasonable working lifespan for any starter-battery and, if it starts to fail it won’t miraculously recover.

 

(One caveat - when obtaining a replacemet, make sure its terminals are in the correct configuration...)

 

 

[colin]

paid2travel - 2019-11-11 9:29 AM

 

It's a Hymer Carado 2012.

 

It's at home so I'm wondering whether if I hook up to my mains for long enough, would the starter battery also receive charge, or does the leisure batteries only get charged via hook up?

 

That would depend on how Hymer wired it, I would guess that it will be similar to my Globecar and trickle charge the starter battery up to around 13v. As Derek says you need to check the levels, also there should be a plastic cover over the +ve terminal.

[Derek Uzzell]

This link

 

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/357146-x250-replacing-starter-battery.html

 

shows a Ducato X250 starter-battery installation with a metal cover over the in-floor compartment and a plastic cover over the battery’s positive terminal. But many Ducato X250/X290 starter-battery installations have no metal cover and/or no plastic cover (My Ducato has neither cover.)

 

This apparent anomaly was once mentioned in MMM magazine who promised to follow it up with Fiat. As far as I’m aware the reason for the ‘covers or not’ variation was never resolved, other than Fiat confirming that - if the covers were not present - this was perfectly OK and not a mistake when the Ducato was built.

 

(It’s possible that Ducato ‘commercial’ models (eg vans) have the covers, but Ducato camping-car chassis do not - but that’s pure speculation...)

[hallii]

Not relevant really but anyway...

My engine battery died whilst in France about a month back. I was on a remote car park by a lake. When I say died it was working OK one minute then it was completely dead. This is the second engine battery that has done this to me. Had to call on breakdown who arranged for a man with a van to bring a new battery out to me.

 

The purpose of this post is to point out that batteries of more modern design don't show any signs of "getting past it" like batteries used to do. They expire suddenly and without warning in the most remote places!

 

A booster pack and jump start were both tried by a local campsite owner without success. Only a new battery bolted in worked.

 

Mines a Ford but batteries are common across makes.

 

Now I have a French battery of unknown make, all it has on it is a red triangle shaped logo, so I expect it will last a couple of years at most.

 

H

[paid2travel]

OK thanks for the link Derek,

 

Mine has a plastic cover over the in-floor compartment plus a plastic positive terminal cover so I guess I'm lucky.

 

It's my first MH so I don't have much in terms of accessory/electrical support equipment to measure or resolve non-major problems before deciding to purchase new items. However, I noted in another thread 'Starter battery charging' that you use a CTEK MXS 5.0 battery-charger (for I presume your engine starter battery).

 

Would you still recommend your version or perhaps an MXS 7.0 or 10 (with a higher amperage) which is being advertised on Amazon for covering caravans & motorhomes?

 

 

[paid2travel]

Thanks H for sharing that....

 

It does seem unnerving to think that an important component can fail without much warning and perhaps worse, in any location other than home.

 

From what I'm reading, either battery design can't keep pace with new MH on-board technology, or, cab manufacturers are failing to ensure compatibility of their new cabs.

[Robinhood]

....referring back to Colin's post; I'd be quite surprised if the electrics in your Carado didn't provide charging to the vehicle battery, albeit that it will be a trickle charge designed only for "maintenance".

 

If you left the vehicle on hook-up, it might just provide sufficient input to turn the engine over after, say, 24 hours, but, given the age of the battery, there is a suspicion that it will need replacing anyway.

 

It isn't clear whether you intend to store your 'van in a location where mains will be available, but if this is the case, then I would suggest purchasing an additional charger is probably not an immediate investment priority.

 

If you do have the ability to supply mains, then I'd invest in a new starter battery, and then put the vehicle on charge whilst stored. (I'd suggest a minimum of 12-24 hours every week to maintain both (sets of) batteries, though some, including myself, tend to leave the thing semi-permanently on charge)

[Derek Uzzell]

hallii - 2019-11-11 12:59 PM

 

...The purpose of this post is to point out that batteries of more modern design don't show any signs of "getting past it" like batteries used to do. They expire suddenly and without warning in the most remote places!...

 

 

I’m not convinced that's valid as a generalisation - you’ve just been unlucky twice.

 

Batteries will indeed fail quite rapidly, but (unless the battery suddenly develps an internal fault) there will normally be some warning that it is heading towards the graveyard.

 

After about 7 years of use I thought the Exide gel leisure-battery of my 2005 Ford Transit-based Hobby motorhome would soon need replacing, but I decided to do this after our imminent trip to France in April. Night One was spent off-site and the motorhome’s lights, water-pump etc. were functioning OK. The following morning this was still the case, but when I switched on the Truma ‘combi’ heater the leisure-battery just died. (I was told subsequently that ‘dropping dead’ was well known with older gel-type batteries.) Finding and fitting a suitable replacement took most of that day and the (AGM) battery that was fitted was not the one I would have chosen if I’d been in the UK, while the French price was a lot more than the UK price.

 

Having learnt my lesson, when we got home I replaced the Hobby’s Motorcraft-branded starter-battery as a precautionary measure. The Motorcraft battery remains usable nowadays (I employ it as a ‘slave’ for my 12V tyre-pump) and it still holds and accepts charge - though I doubt it would start a diesel-engined vehicle.

 

The Varta battery originally fitted to our 2009 Skoda car would (again after about 7 years) still start the vehicle, but clearly displayed symptoms that it would cease doing this reliably in the not too distant future. It was replaced by a new Exide battery and the immediate improvement in cranking speed was obvious.

 

The moral to these stories is that, if there are suspicions that a starter (or leisure) battery is ‘unwell’, don’t delay replacement. But even if a starter (or leisure) battery shows no indications of impending failure. that doesn’t mean it won’t suddenly give up the ghost, and - if that does happen - it will almost certainly be when it’s most irritating.

 

There's no persuasive reason to think that the starter-batteries fitted as original equipment to motorhomes are inferior to the stsarter-batteries factory-fitted to cars, but it’s certainly true that the way motorhomes are used can be tough on their batteries.

 

A vehicle battery is a ‘machine’ and bloody-mindedness is in their job description. ;-)

[Keithl]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-11-11 2:00 PM

 

hallii - 2019-11-11 12:59 PM

 

...The purpose of this post is to point out that batteries of more modern design don't show any signs of "getting past it" like batteries used to do. They expire suddenly and without warning in the most remote places!...

 

 

I’m not convinced that's valid as a generalisation - you’ve just been unlucky twice.

 

Batteries will indeed fail quite rapidly, but (unless the battery suddenly develps an internal fault) there will normally be some warning that it is heading towards the graveyard.

 

After about 7 years of use I thought the Exide gel leisure-battery of my 2005 Ford Transit-based Hobby motorhome would soon need replacing, but I decided to do this after our imminent trip to France in April. Night One was spent off-site and the motorhome’s lights, water-pump etc. were functioning OK. The following morning this was still the case, but when I switched on the Truma ‘combi’ heater the leisure-battery just died. (I wa told subsequently that ‘dropping dead’ was well known with older gel-type batteries.) Finding and fitting a suitable replacement took most of that day and the (AGM) battery that was fitted was not the one I would have chosen if I’d been in the UK, while the French price was a lot more than the UK price.

 

Having learnt my lesson, when we got home I replaced the Hobby’s Motorcraft-branded starter-battery as a precautionary measure. The Motorcraft battery remains usable nowadays (I employ it as a ‘slave’ for my 12V tyre-pump) and it still holds and accepts charge - though I doubt it would start a diesel-engined vehicle.

 

The Varta battery originally fitted to our 2009 Skoda car would (again after about 7 years) still start the vehicle, but clearly displayed symptoms that it would cease doing this reliably in the not too distant future. It was replaced by a new Exide battery and the immediate improvement in cranking speed was obvious.

 

Sorry Derek but I have to agree with Hallii, well certainly as regards Ford vehicles.

 

I had an early 2000's Ford Galaxy with a Silver Calcium battery and Ford did not recommend replacement with any other chemistry due to charging voltages, etc.

 

I had three batteries fail on that car during my ownership (over 17 years) and every single one of them failed whilst driving without ANY warning. You would be driving along absolutely fine then suddenly Bings, Bongs and warning lights galore was the first indication anything was wrong. If you stopped the engine then the ignition would not even turn back on. Luckily every time I was only hundreds of yards from home so drove home and then replaced the battery. If I had been away from home this would have been a major inconvenience but not an insurmountable situation.

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

Then you’ve been 3 times unlucky.

 

I’ve been driving for 55 years and, although I’ve had to replace plenty of starter-batteries on my vehicles, I’ve never had a starter-battety fail as you and H have described.

[Keithl]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-11-11 2:15 PM

 

Then you’ve been 3 times unlucky.

 

I’ve been driving for 55 years and, although I’ve had to replace plenty of starter-batteries on my vehicles, I’ve never had a starter-battety fail as you and H have described.

 

Derek,

 

I think the common theme with Hallii is that both vehicles where Fords and I would hazard a guess that Hallii's was also a Silver Calcium.

 

Keith.

[Fred Duck]

Happened to us twice. My Wife's Fiat Punto showed no symptoms of a failing battery at all. She parked while shopping and when she went back to the car the battery was completely dead. Would hardly light the dash lights. Similarly, my Skoda Octavia showed no symptoms at all until I tried to start it one morning and, again, battery completely dead.

 

The contrast is the 2004 plate Bessecarr E410 we sold in August that had its original Fiat fitted cab and hab batteries that were still working fine after 50,000 miles and 15 years.

 

FD

[paid2travel]

paid2travel - 2019-11-11 1:21 PM

 

OK thanks for the link Derek,

 

Mine has a plastic cover over the in-floor compartment plus a plastic positive terminal cover so I guess I'm lucky.

 

It's my first MH so I don't have much in terms of accessory/electrical support equipment to measure or resolve non-major problems before deciding to purchase new items. However, I noted in another thread 'Starter battery charging' that you use a CTEK MXS 5.0 battery-charger (for I presume your engine starter battery).

 

Would you still recommend your version or perhaps an MXS 7.0 or 10 (with a higher amperage) which is being advertised on Amazon for covering caravans & motorhomes?

 

 

Derek,

 

You might of missed my earlier question ref your CTEK MXS 5.0 battery-charger :-)

[Derek Uzzell]

I bought my CTEK MXS 5.0 quite a few years ago when it was available for around £50.

 

The manner in which I use it to occasionally charge my motorhome’s starter-battery is described in some detail here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Starter-battery-charging/48407/

 

but I also use it to charge other batteries.

 

I chose the CTEK MXS 5.0 because CTEK had a reasonable reputatiion for reliability and I believed a 5A output would be sufficient for how I planned to use the charger. After I’d bought the Rapido in 2015, it was helpful that the CTEK “Connect Eyelet” was available to facilitate charging the starter-battery by not having to remove the ‘lid’ over the battery compartment.

 

I note that the asking-price for a CTEK MXS 7.0 or MXS 10 is around £100 and £135 respectively, and around £67 for a MXS 5.0. For how I use it the MXS 5.0 has proved adequate and, athough a 7A or 10A charger would charge quicker, rapid charging isn’t (and hasn’t been) a priority for me.

 

I know that the late Allan Evans (aandncaravan) was no great fan of CTEK chargers

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Mains-Charger-For-Leisure-Battery-Advice-Please-/51676/

 

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/how-does-a-charger-work.php

 

and if I were in the market for a battery charger now, I might not choose a CTEK product.

 

All I can really tell you is that my MXS 5.0 has done the job I bought it for and (so far) has been reliable.

[paid2travel]

Thanks Derek,

 

After reading all the helpful comments and advice today and reviewing many older posts on this subject, I've ordered a new H3 Varta Silver Dynamic Starter Battery rather than try to revive what is essentially a dying unit.

 

That'll give me piece of mind and more time to source a charger for the future.

 

Many thanks to all!

Martin :-D

[hallii]

Derek,

 

I think the common theme with Hallii is that both vehicles where Fords and I would hazard a guess that Hallii's was also a Silver Calcium.

 

Keith.

 

Both batteries were indeed silver calcium. The last one was Varta.

 

H

[Derek Uzzell]

A couple of links that may be worth looking at

 

https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/

 

https://www.platinuminternational.com/ford-calcium-silver-batteries

 

When I replaced my 2005 Transit’s “Motorcraft” starter-battery (that would have been ‘silver calcium’ type) I installed a suitably-sized Varta Silver Dynamic battery as Martin has chosen to use for his Ducato. But - to the best of my knowledge - the “Silver” in the Varta battery’s name does not indicate that it is a silver-calcium battery, it just shows that the battery is in Varta’s premium Silver range, as opposed to their cheapr "Blue” or “Black” ranges.

 

I’m not arguing that there are always symptoms of impending starter-battery failure, as clearly that’s not the case. I’m just challenging H’s advice “...that batteries of more modern design don't show any signs of "getting past it" like batteries used to do. They expire suddenly and without warning in the most remote places”.

 

If it’s asserted that modern batteries generally die suddenly rather than fade away gradually, I don’t believe that’s so. If there’s evidence that it’s no longer the case that there will be some warning that a starter-battery is due for replacement, I’d like to see that evidence.

[dipsticks]

Ditto Keithl & hallii,

 

Our Transit Mk7 Silver Calcium Ford starter Battery died completely and instantly straight after a 120 mile journey. Switched off to get the ramps out and then tried to start..............completely dead not even enough to switch the bi-stable relay to connect the auxilliary battery and power the system (Ford dual battery system)

 

A good idea is to carry a short piece of wire with a croc clip each end to connect the two batteries to switch the relay to let the auxillially power the system and with luck start the engine.

 

There was no prior warning of a tired battery at all.......one minute right as rain the next minute completely dead, handy to know of a 'get you home plan'

 

Good luck