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Ducato engine bay - identify part


Steve928

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23addy46 - 2019-12-03 7:44 PM

 

Hy Steve928 -

Unless the photo has been 'reversed' - doesn't the position of the scuttle drain hose (ie:- to the left of the circled item) suggest this as a LH drive Ducato then ? I agree to have never seen this item ?

 

Dave Adams

 

No, standard RHD vans (bigger picture attached).

 

This van has the Comfortmatic - anything to do with that I wonder..?

Capture.JPG.8c8bc8afe26a3cc2a5eac7ea10629686.JPG

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It is a "Vacuum Tank"; part of the emissions control system, and number 4 on the page here:

 

https://www.fiatdalys.lt/en/catalog/parts/102/60/30/1/4Y/0/0/CC2.3/CMBDS/GSX/diesel-valve-pressure-guage-booster

 

Shown in the photo here (but you'll have to translate from the Polish to get the detail)

 

https://allegro.pl/oferta/zbiornik-podcisnienia-fiat-ducato-06-51758382-7845186866

 

 

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Steve928 - 2019-12-03 9:02 PM

 

If it is a brake booster/amplifier then that could explain why it's on some vans and not on others: for example it might come in with the 150 engine or the Maxi chassis (or both, which the pictured van is).

 

Thanks for all the detective work.

 

Since the the X250 was introduced in 2006, if the vehicle has the Electronic Stability Program (ESP) system, an integral part of ESP is Brake Assist, described in a 2009 Ducato Owner Handbook as follows:

 

BRAKE ASSIST (integrated ESP emergency braking assistance)

(for versions/markets where provided)

 

This system (which cannot be switched off) recognises emergency braking (according to the speed of operation of the brake pedal) and provides additional hydraulic braking pressure to support that applied by the driver. This allows faster and more powerful operation of the braking system.

 

I can’t confirm that the mysterious ‘Vacuum Tank’ is fitted only to Ducatos that have ESP (and consequently Brake Assist) but as the Amazon advert refers to the part as "Original Fiat Vacuum Tank for Brake Power Amplifier”, it would seem to be a reasonable hypothesis.

 

ESP was an option on Ducatos until the X290 was introduced in mid-2014. Fiat advertised X290 vehicles as having ESP (or ESC - Electronic Stability Control - as it was now called) as standard, but ESC was definitely not standard for X290-based motorhomes.

 

ESC was discussed in these 2014 forum threads

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/Daytime-Running-Lights/35707/31/#M433032

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Latest-Fiat-Ducato-X290-Standard-specification-/36108/

 

I specified that my Ducato-based Rapido motorhome should have ESC and Traction+ when I ordered the vehicle and (as I said above) my motorhome has the vacuum tank.

 

A Ducato with an ASR or a Traction+ button on its dashboard should have ESC and (if my hypothesis is valid) should also have the 51758382 vacuum tank under the bonnet. And vice versa - no ASR or Traction+ dashboard button = no vacuum tank.

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It's an additional vacuum tank for the EGR system. On a signal from the engine ECU, the EGR solenoid valve connects the EGR circuit to the brake servo vacuum circuit. The vacuum is regulated by the ECU and operates the EGR valve allowing a proportion of exhaust gases to flow into the intake manifold.

 

My diagram shows a vacuum tank inline between the brake servo unit and the EGR solenoid valve on all models, although I'm not sure where that tank is located on the vehicle. The part in question is shown as being fitted in the vacuum circuit between the main vacuum tank and the valve, and is marked "vacuum additional tank - only for vehicles with 146HP engine".

 

Why that engine requires an additional vacuum tank I don't know

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If the vacuum tank were only fitted to Ducatos with the 2.3litre 146HP motor, then any Ducato built before 2011 (when that Euro 5 motor was introduced) should not have it.

 

On-line references indicate that Fiat part number 51758382 is fitted not just to Ducatos, but to certain other Fiat Group models. This Polish advert

 

http://zamowienia.idbj.pl/start.asp?WCU=~TVc1NTE4Nzc0OCpGSUFU

 

mentions Fiat Croma, Grande Punto 1.9 jtd, Alfa Romeo 159, Brera, Spider 1.9, 2.4 jtd and Ducato, Boxer, Jumper 3.0 jtd, hdi.

 

The Iveco part number evidently is 42556637 and this ebay advert calls the item an “air bottle for EGR”.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IVECO-DAILY-2010-NEW-OEM-42556637-AIR-BOTTLE-FOR-EGR-0000164611-/302864469898

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This is the Iveco schematic diagram, for the EGR system on the 2.3 multijet F1A euro5 engine (the same engine used in the Ducato 150PS versions).

 

13 is the EGR solenoid valve, 14 the additional vacuum tank, 15 is the brake servo and 16 is the main EGR vacuum tank.

 

Possibly the variable vane turbocharger is the reason for it, as the VVT is only fitted to the higher output engine and as can be seen from the diagram, the other side of the solenoid valve links directly to the turbo body.

 

EGR.JPG.d5ddbb8968b6c0ec96b090add50ebe65.JPG

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I notice that, in the Ducato Owner Handbooks, the additional vacuum tank does not appear in drawings of the under-bonnet area until Euro 5+ (X290) models were introduced, and the tank is then shown on the drawing relating to the 180 3.0litre motor (which did have a VVT) as well as in the drawing that refers to 110, 130 and 150 2.3litre motors.

 

The additional vacuum tank is also shown in the drawing relating to Ducatos with Euro 6b motors, where the drawing’s heading says that it relates to "2.3 130 Multijet 2 - 130 with AdBlue - 150 Multijet 2 - 180 Multijet 2 Power versions”, but I don’t think that the 130 MJ 2 had a VVT.

 

Obviously those drawings are ‘generalised’ and it might well be that the motors that don’t have a VVT won’t have the additional vacuum tank.

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