John52 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-12-28 2:52 PM So what are you going to export? .... Decisions... Decisions.. We 'losers' could export Cars when your factories cross the border to stay in the free market Or now BoJo needs us more than the DUP we could just accept even more of your money to be ruled from Westminster. :D Making the gap between Government spending in England and Scotland even bigger :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-12-28 3:05 PM Drunks and druggies Yes you can have them. All your money BoJo sends us to put up with him, we can employ more police, so they'll go to England where its easier for them to get away with crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-28 9:06 PM pelmetman - 2019-12-28 2:52 PM So what are you going to export? .... Decisions... Decisions.. We 'losers' could export Cars when your factories cross the border to stay in the free market Or now BoJo needs us more than the DUP we could just accept even more of your money to be ruled from Westminster. :D Making the gap between Government spending in England and Scotland even bigger :D You have to decide to leave first ;-) ........... BTW Bojo doesn't need Fishface or the DUP.......He's got a 80 seat majority of proper Brexiteers >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-12-29 8:53 AM John52 - 2019-12-28 9:06 PM pelmetman - 2019-12-28 2:52 PM So what are you going to export? .... Decisions... Decisions.. We 'losers' could export Cars when your factories cross the border to stay in the free market Or now BoJo needs us more than the DUP we could just accept even more of your money to be ruled from Westminster. :D Making the gap between Government spending in England and Scotland even bigger :D You have to decide to leave first ;-) ........... BTW Bojo doesn't need Fishface or the DUP.......He's got a 80 seat majority of proper Brexiteers >:-) ......... You're missing the point as usual. BoJo won't want to go down in history as the PM who broke up the UK, and will pay any amount of YOUR money to keep Faslane & Balmoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-12-29 8:53 AM You have to decide to leave first ;-) ........... I've already decided - we love England but don't like being ruled by the shysters in Westminster. Nevertheless, I expect I will be outvoted again when BoJo showers Scotland with even more of YOUR money to maintain his empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-29 9:10 AM pelmetman - 2019-12-29 8:53 AM John52 - 2019-12-28 9:06 PM pelmetman - 2019-12-28 2:52 PM So what are you going to export? .... Decisions... Decisions.. We 'losers' could export Cars when your factories cross the border to stay in the free market Or now BoJo needs us more than the DUP we could just accept even more of your money to be ruled from Westminster. :D Making the gap between Government spending in England and Scotland even bigger :D You have to decide to leave first ;-) ........... BTW Bojo doesn't need Fishface or the DUP.......He's got a 80 seat majority of proper Brexiteers >:-) ......... You're missing the point as usual. BoJo won't want to go down in history as the PM who broke up the UK, and will pay any amount of YOUR money to keep Faslane & Balmoral. So who's gonna make him give you a referendum? (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-29 9:16 AM pelmetman - 2019-12-29 8:53 AM You have to decide to leave first ;-) ........... I've already decided - we love England but don't like being ruled by the shysters in Westminster. Nevertheless, I expect I will be outvoted again when BoJo showers Scotland with even more of YOUR money to maintain his empire. Boris doesn't need to offer you anymore money ;-) ......... He knows the EU cant afford to support you (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7843981/Keir-Starmer-emerges-favourite-Jeremy-Corbyns-job.html Looks like the genuine Socialists are turning their backs on the anti Semites B-) ....... Dunno if putting a Hard line Remoaner in charge will win back Brexit voting Labour supporters? :D ........ I guess it depends on whether he will openly campaign to rejoin the EU ;-) ......... Or pretend not to have a opinion like Corbyn (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-01-02 8:59 AM https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7843981/Keir-Starmer-emerges-favourite-Jeremy-Corbyns-job.html Looks like the genuine Socialists are turning their backs on the anti Semites B-) ....... Dunno if putting a Hard line Remoaner in charge will win back Brexit voting Labour supporters? :D ........ I guess it depends on whether he will openly campaign to rejoin the EU ;-) ......... Or pretend not to have a opinion like Corbyn (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Putting in a moderate remoaner would be a wise move I reckon. I am basing that of course on both Johnson and Brexit being a total disaster for the UK. Once that happens and the people wake up they are going to need someone they can turn to who is electable, moderate and pro EU. Your assuming those ex Labour Brexiteers will remain Brexiteers once they realise Brexit has totally ruined the UK. A lot of centrist people like myself will feel a lot more likely to vote for someone like Starmer than another Corbynista also. I think he would be the best choice for Labour leader. We need a pro Europe opposition for sure that can hold Johnson and his merry band of fcuktards to account every step of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 John52 - 2019-12-29 10:10 AM You're missing the point as usual. BoJo won't want to go down in history as the PM who broke up the UK, and will pay any amount of YOUR money to keep Faslane & Balmoral. We've had this discussion once and you did your usual trick of just diverting rather than answer the question. So I'll ask it again - what has Balmoral, a privately-owned holiday home in Scotland, got to do with Boris or the UK government? Are you suggesting perhaps that if Scotland becomes independent it will either confiscate all property owned by non-Scots, or it would ban the head of state of its most important neighbour from using a house that its family has owned privately for a century? Balmoral's status is public knowledge and I can only assume that your constant references to it are a result of this obsession with, and hatred of, the monarchy. A boring obsession that you display almost daily. As for Faslane, you are, as you often are, talking tosh. There are many suitable sites to host our submarines. Faslane may have a slight geographical edge with it being the nearest access to the North Atlantic but an equally important reason for that site is a responsible government trying to spread opportunity and employment to all its regions. If Scotland leaves the Union it will lose the base and the thousands of jobs that depend on it. But it will never happen, Boris knows it and isn't the slightest bit worried about losing Scotland. Faced with the reality of the UK being out of the EU and Scotland in it, faced with the reality that Scotland would be bankrupt without the financial crutch that the rest of the country provides for it, the Scots, most of whom, unlike you, are intelligent and informed enough to know that Balmoral is a private home, will never vote for independence. So dream on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-01-02 8:59 AM https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7843981/Keir-Starmer-emerges-favourite-Jeremy-Corbyns-job.html Looks like the genuine Socialists are turning their backs on the anti Semites B-) ....... The "antisemitism" was what your rag media, Daily Fail and Brexpress, weaponised to mount a smear campaign against Corbyn who called for a fully independent inquiry. Something Johnson and the Tory party has run shy of doing. Meantime you, and and the rag media you salivate over, blatantly ignore the rampant institutionalised Islamophobia with the Tory party, and praise racist Johnson for dropping his promise to hold an inquiry into Islamophobia within the party. It lurches ever further to the right as the Nasty Party of Racists. https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/107875/boris-johnson-faces-backlash https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/equalities-professor-to-head-tory-inquiry-into-discrimination-in-party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 12:05 PM As for Faslane, you are, as you often are, talking tosh. There are many suitable sites to host our submarines. Faslane may have a slight geographical edge with it being the nearest access to the North Atlantic Anyone with the most basic understanding of Naval Warfare will see you simply don't know what you are talking about. You are completely missing the number 1 fundamental point. The whole point of submarines is SECRECY - something you haven't even mentioned. If the enemy knows where your nuclear weapons are they can attack them. Why else would you go to the astronomical expense of keeping them in submarines? In fact why have submarines at all? Faslane seems to be the only port they can slip in and out of undetected. Why do you think they put their submarine base there in the first place, and have gone to such lengths to keep it there, despite all the protesters permanently living outside *-) (Edited to try and make it simpler *-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 John52 - 2020-01-02 3:24 PM If the enemy knows where your nuclear weapons are they can attack them. ) So maybe the subs at Faslane are not real ones - they are decoys. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 malc d - 2020-01-02 3:41 PM John52 - 2020-01-02 3:24 PM If the enemy knows where your nuclear weapons are they can attack them. ) So maybe the subs at Faslane are not real ones - they are decoys. ;-) Don't know because we can't see them when they are at Faslane Thats the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Wheras at Plymouth you can see them from Grand Parade, there are even models of them on the sea wall to identify them - except people have altered the names to 'HMS Genocide' etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 John52 - 2020-01-02 4:24 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 12:05 PM As for Faslane, you are, as you often are, talking tosh. There are many suitable sites to host our submarines. Faslane may have a slight geographical edge with it being the nearest access to the North Atlantic Anyone with the most basic understanding of Naval Warfare will see you simply don't know what you are talking about. You are completely missing the number 1 fundamental point. The whole point of submarines is SECRECY - something you haven't even mentioned. If the enemy knows where your nuclear weapons are they can attack them. Why else would you go to the astronomical expense of keeping them in submarines? In fact why have submarines at all? Faslane seems to be the only port they can slip in and out of undetected. Why do you think they put their submarine base there in the first place, and have gone to such lengths to keep it there, despite all the protesters permanently living outside *-) (Edited to try and make it simpler *-) ) You really are hilarious, and your knowledge of HMNB Clyde is as poor as your knowledge of Balmoral and its history. I note that once more you've avoided the question of why Boris would even consider Balmoral when considering the pros and cons of allowing Scottish secession. Are you suggesting that the Russians aren't aware that our nuclear-armed submarines are based at Faslane? The reason that this site was chosen is because, during the Cold War, it had easier access to the North Atlantic, which would have been the main theatre in the event of conflict. Davenport near Plymouth is the largest naval base in Europe and before Faslane was the base for our submarines, and could be again if necessary. As for 'secrecy' this is only important when they're at sea and even then they can be detected using sonar. The primary method is passive acoustics. This can be another submarine, ship, aircraft, or static ocean array (SOA). We have multiple SOAs deployed. The most famous being the one across the GI-UK gap. This was used during the Cold War to monitor the Soviet fleet coming south into the Atlantic. The base at Faslane is even on Google Earth! So much for secrecy! Your suggestion that the government would be influenced by a few deluded protesters is absolutely risible. The reason that Faslane still exists is that it's a fully equipped base in a favourable location and to leave it and relocate would be a pointlessly expensive operation and result in the loss of thousands of jobs in Scotland. What PM in his right mind would seek to give ammunition to the independence movement by closing Faslane and throwing thousands of Scots on the dole? However, if there is independence one day, which in my view will never happen, we will relocate to Davenport or even to Barrow in Furness. Barrow is one of the few locations with the facilities and skills to build submarines and has built all but three of the navy's nuclear-powered subs. It obviously has excellent launching facilities. Your ludicrous assertion that Faslane and Balmoral are the main reasons why Boris doesn't want an independent Scotland is unintelligent and ignorant. You really should stop repeating this utter nonsense. Hopefully you'll now answer my questions about Balmoral and a Scottish government's actions concerning it and other privately-owned homes, should that government ever achieve independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 4:37 PM John52 - 2020-01-02 4:24 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 12:05 PM As for Faslane, you are, as you often are, talking tosh. There are many suitable sites to host our submarines. Faslane may have a slight geographical edge with it being the nearest access to the North Atlantic Anyone with the most basic understanding of Naval Warfare will see you simply don't know what you are talking about. You are completely missing the number 1 fundamental point. The whole point of submarines is SECRECY - something you haven't even mentioned. If the enemy knows where your nuclear weapons are they can attack them. Why else would you go to the astronomical expense of keeping them in submarines? In fact why have submarines at all? Faslane seems to be the only port they can slip in and out of undetected. Why do you think they put their submarine base there in the first place, and have gone to such lengths to keep it there, despite all the protesters permanently living outside *-) (Edited to try and make it simpler *-) ) You really are hilarious, and your knowledge of HMNB Clyde is as poor as your knowledge of Balmoral and its history. I note that once more you've avoided the question of why Boris would even consider Balmoral when considering the pros and cons of allowing Scottish secession. Are you suggesting that the Russians aren't aware that our nuclear-armed submarines are based at Faslane? The reason that this site was chosen is because, during the Cold War, it had easier access to the North Atlantic, which would have been the main theatre in the event of conflict. Davenport near Plymouth is the largest naval base in Europe and before Faslane was the base for our submarines, and could be again if necessary. As for 'secrecy' this is only important when they're at sea and even then they can be detected using sonar. The primary method is passive acoustics. This can be another submarine, ship, aircraft, or static ocean array (SOA). We have multiple SOAs deployed. The most famous being the one across the GI-UK gap. This was used during the Cold War to monitor the Soviet fleet coming south into the Atlantic. The base at Faslane is even on Google Earth! So much for secrecy! Your suggestion that the government would be influenced by a few deluded protesters is absolutely risible. The reason that Faslane still exists is that it's a fully equipped base in a favourable location and to leave it and relocate would be a pointlessly expensive operation and result in the loss of thousands of jobs in Scotland. What PM in his right mind would seek to give ammunition to the independence movement by closing Faslane and throwing thousands of Scots on the dole? However, if there is independence one day, which in my view will never happen, we will relocate to Davenport or even to Barrow in Furness. Barrow is one of the few locations with the facilities and skills to build submarines and has built all but three of the navy's nuclear-powered subs. It obviously has excellent launching facilities. Your ludicrous assertion that Faslane and Balmoral are the main reasons why Boris doesn't want an independent Scotland is unintelligent and ignorant. You really should stop repeating this utter nonsense. Hopefully you'll now answer my questions about Balmoral and a Scottish government's actions concerning it and other privately-owned homes, should that government ever achieve independence. Actually Barrow is no good. The Walney Channel is too shallow for nuclear submarines apparently. There are only a certain number of hours in each month when the tide is high enough for nuclear submarines to transit into the open sea. Even when they can transit out to sea there is no way they could do it secretly. Its a none starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 4:37 PM Hopefully you'll now answer my questions about Balmoral . I already have but it hasn't sunk in. I tried to explain the simple fact submarines can't slip in and out of other ports un detected like they can at Faslane. At the risk of stating the obvious again you need the depth of water you get in a sea loch. Maybe Barry can succeed in explaining that simple fact where I have failed. Because you seem unable or unwilling to comprehend that simple fact and instead make out I suggested the existence of Faslane can't be detected *-) I also tried to explain the Royal Hangers On might not be able to carry on in another country (Scotland) like they do in their own (England). But instead you make that out to mean I suggested their privately owned dwellings would be confiscated *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 4:37 PM As for 'secrecy' this is only important when they're at sea . Well if you realise secrecy is important its a start. Can you understand that if they could be seen at Faslane the enemy might be able to deduce they are not at sea *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 John52 - 2020-01-02 8:01 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 4:37 PM As for 'secrecy' this is only important when they're at sea . Well if you realise secrecy is important its a start. Can you understand that if they could be seen at Faslane the enemy might be able to deduce they are not at sea *-) Prior to Faslane the subs were at Devonport. If it was OK to have them at Devonport then, it is now. When subs leave Faslane they're accompanied by a frigate until they dive and according to the MOD frequent cloud offers cover when they depart, which again tells you that they don't leave underwater. Everything you read about Faslane will tell you that its main advantage is its location and any secrecy is of secondary consideration. The Russians don't even need to see the subs, they just wait in international waters and monitor them acoustically. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15402070.russians-caught-lurking-near-faslane-naval-base-to-eavesdrop-on-nuclear-submarines/ We managed perfectly well without using Faslane for our nuclear subs and if we had to do, we'll manage again. Your constant claim that Boris only wants to stop Scottish independence so he can hang on to Balmoral and Faslane is beyond imbecilic. Like most intelligent politicians he wants to save the Scots from themselves! Scotland would be bankrupt in no time if it left the Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 John52 - 2020-01-02 7:46 PM I also tried to explain the Royal Hangers On might not be able to carry on in another country (Scotland) like they do in their own (England). But instead you make that out to mean I suggested their privately owned dwellings would be confiscated *-) What would the Royal Family not be able to do what they already do now? It's a holiday home, one of thousands owned by non-Scots. If Scotland gained independence are you so stupid as to think that it will do anything to prevent the head of state of its most important trading partner and neighbour from carrying on using a private residence? You have said several times that one of the reasons that Boris doesn't want Scottish independence is so that he can hang on to Balmoral! You should tell the truth and admit that you didn't actually know that Balmoral has nothing to do with the UK Crown Estate and that it is a privately-owned holiday home. Your suggestion that they won't be able to 'carry on' doing what they do now clearly suggests that a Scottish government would somehow seek to take some control of homes owned by non-Scots. However, what all this boils down to is nothing more than your constant attempts to turn every thread into another boring rant about your unhealthy obsession with the Royal Family. But like all other republicans you haven't the guts to stand for parliament and subject your views to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-01-02 6:18 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 4:37 PM John52 - 2020-01-02 4:24 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 12:05 PM As for Faslane, you are, as you often are, talking tosh. There are many suitable sites to host our submarines. Faslane may have a slight geographical edge with it being the nearest access to the North Atlantic Anyone with the most basic understanding of Naval Warfare will see you simply don't know what you are talking about. You are completely missing the number 1 fundamental point. The whole point of submarines is SECRECY - something you haven't even mentioned. If the enemy knows where your nuclear weapons are they can attack them. Why else would you go to the astronomical expense of keeping them in submarines? In fact why have submarines at all? Faslane seems to be the only port they can slip in and out of undetected. Why do you think they put their submarine base there in the first place, and have gone to such lengths to keep it there, despite all the protesters permanently living outside *-) (Edited to try and make it simpler *-) ) You really are hilarious, and your knowledge of HMNB Clyde is as poor as your knowledge of Balmoral and its history. I note that once more you've avoided the question of why Boris would even consider Balmoral when considering the pros and cons of allowing Scottish secession. Are you suggesting that the Russians aren't aware that our nuclear-armed submarines are based at Faslane? The reason that this site was chosen is because, during the Cold War, it had easier access to the North Atlantic, which would have been the main theatre in the event of conflict. Davenport near Plymouth is the largest naval base in Europe and before Faslane was the base for our submarines, and could be again if necessary. As for 'secrecy' this is only important when they're at sea and even then they can be detected using sonar. The primary method is passive acoustics. This can be another submarine, ship, aircraft, or static ocean array (SOA). We have multiple SOAs deployed. The most famous being the one across the GI-UK gap. This was used during the Cold War to monitor the Soviet fleet coming south into the Atlantic. The base at Faslane is even on Google Earth! So much for secrecy! Your suggestion that the government would be influenced by a few deluded protesters is absolutely risible. The reason that Faslane still exists is that it's a fully equipped base in a favourable location and to leave it and relocate would be a pointlessly expensive operation and result in the loss of thousands of jobs in Scotland. What PM in his right mind would seek to give ammunition to the independence movement by closing Faslane and throwing thousands of Scots on the dole? However, if there is independence one day, which in my view will never happen, we will relocate to Davenport or even to Barrow in Furness. Barrow is one of the few locations with the facilities and skills to build submarines and has built all but three of the navy's nuclear-powered subs. It obviously has excellent launching facilities. Your ludicrous assertion that Faslane and Balmoral are the main reasons why Boris doesn't want an independent Scotland is unintelligent and ignorant. You really should stop repeating this utter nonsense. Hopefully you'll now answer my questions about Balmoral and a Scottish government's actions concerning it and other privately-owned homes, should that government ever achieve independence. Actually Barrow is no good. The Walney Channel is too shallow for nuclear submarines apparently. There are only a certain number of hours in each month when the tide is high enough for nuclear submarines to transit into the open sea. Even when they can transit out to sea there is no way they could do it secretly. Its a none starter. You may be right. Barrow was just a thought in view of its history of making subs. However, the south channel is already dredged and could probably be made fit for permanent access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 ......duplicate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 7:41 PM What would the Royal Family not be able to do what they already do now? . Stop the railway 10 miles short of Balmoral to keep the plebs away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 It isn't just the depth of water - its deep, calm, sheltered water you only get at Faslane. And its remote unpopulated location so spies would stand out. I stopped my van nearby and was approached by guards immediately to ask what I was doing. The other ports have too many vans nearby to monitor so closely. Yes we managed without Faslane before, but we weren't under attack,and technology has moved on since then. You've got to be close to them to monitor them with sonar and they have to be moving. They can sit on the ocean floor undetected for weeks - so an enemy wouldn't know if they are nearby unless his spies have seen them going in to port. Which they can't do at Faslane like they can at other ports. FunsterJohn - 2020-01-02 7:29 PM Your constant claim that Boris only wants to stop Scottish independence so he can hang on to Balmoral and Faslane is beyond imbecilic. Like most intelligent politicians he wants to save the Scots from themselves! Scotland would be bankrupt in no time if it left the Union. So BoJo isn't out for himself then and has our best interests at heart *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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