ChrisCM Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Hi Guys, As one of the preparations for my first long foreign trip in the spring I'm looking at security. My Devon PVC is based on a Fiat Ducato. It has electronic/electrical dead locking via the key fob. I wonder if this is sufficient to guard against a forced entry attempt via the door handles or would the dead locking be overcome along with the standard locking and, if this is the case, should I consider HEOSafe dead locks as well? (or the Thule/Milenco type)? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 ChrisCM - 2019-12-30 3:08 PM Hi Guys, As one of the preparations for my first long foreign trip in the spring I'm looking at security. Chris I think the easiest entry point is the habitation windows and theres not much you can do to them to make them secure Perhaps a loud alarm operated by a pir with external notification of its presence and don't leave van parked in isolated spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 From any window make the interior appear empty, remove anything loose. sent you a pm. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I use a non electronic method to prevent anyone opening the cab doors. I have a "strap" bolted to the seat mounting which then hooks onto an eye screwed to the metal door, The doors cannot be opened. In a similar fashion I have made some "sleeves" which slot over the locking mechanism of the habitation door, so it cannot be opened. Of course the thieves can still push the windows in, or cut them out, but that takes time and they hopefully won't bother, I have no electronic security and no faith in it. The thieves seem to always be one step ahead in knowing how to clone or circumvent codes/keys/electronics. The mantra is "Layers" of security to make it as difficult and time consuming as possible to break in to your van - so that they target someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Chris, The easiest way would be a strap or cable type lock across between the door handles. Easy to fit and easy to remove when you need to. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 ChrisCM - 2019-12-30 3:08 PM Hi Guys, As one of the preparations for my first long foreign trip in the spring I'm looking at security. My Devon PVC is based on a Fiat Ducato. It has electronic/electrical dead locking via the key fob. I wonder if this is sufficient to guard against a forced entry attempt via the door handles or would the dead locking be overcome along with the standard locking and, if this is the case, should I consider HEOSafe dead locks as well? (or the Thule/Milenco type)? Chris Where do you intend going, and will you use camp sites? Ultimately, no vehicle is completely immune from break-in. It is a matter of risk awareness, and management. If you leave your van parked in the back streets of a run-down city, the risk of break-in increases. If you leave it on a camp site with reasonable security features, the risk reduces. If you are sure your van has Fiat deadlocks as original equipment (most do not), that would prevent access via any of the windows except by physically climbing in after forcing/breaking one. You can prove this for your self by deadlocking the van while inside, and then trying to release the doors one at a time via the internal levers. If they open, your van does not have the Fiat deadlocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCM Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 witzend - 2019-12-30 4:09 PM ChrisCM - 2019-12-30 3:08 PM Hi Guys, As one of the preparations for my first long foreign trip in the spring I'm looking at security. Chris I think the easiest entry point is the habitation windows and theres not much you can do to them to make them secure Perhaps a loud alarm operated by a pir with external notification of its presence and don't leave van parked in isolated spots. I fully agree with you about the windows, after all they are just a bit of plastic!, when I go out I always close all the blinds and leave a radio on so hopefully it looks occupied. My alarm system has internal sensors. I think, as I have a rear lounge/bed layout, that when in residence, the front doors are at more of a risk a of a break in by an opportunist hence the concern over whether the intregal dead locks would stop the opportunist (I understand it only takes seconds with the normal locks) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCM Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-12-30 5:10 PM ChrisCM - 2019-12-30 3:08 PM Hi Guys, As one of the preparations for my first long foreign trip in the spring I'm looking at security. My Devon PVC is based on a Fiat Ducato. It has electronic/electrical dead locking via the key fob. I wonder if this is sufficient to guard against a forced entry attempt via the door handles or would the dead locking be overcome along with the standard locking and, if this is the case, should I consider HEOSafe dead locks as well? (or the Thule/Milenco type)? Chris Where do you intend going, and will you use camp sites? Ultimately, no vehicle is completely immune from break-in. It is a matter of risk awareness, and management. If you leave your van parked in the back streets of a run-down city, the risk of break-in increases. If you leave it on a camp site with reasonable security features, the risk reduces. If you are sure your van has Fiat deadlocks as original equipment (most do not), that would prevent access via any of the windows except by physically climbing in after forcing/breaking one. You can prove this for your self by deadlocking the van while inside, and then trying to release the doors one at a time via the internal levers. If they open, your van does not have the Fiat deadlocks. Hopefully mostly wild camping outside cities, if inside or near I will use campsites. Yes, it does have the deadlocks, have confirmed it by your method. I just wondered if the locks were still vulnerable to the screwdriver attack if deadlocked. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The usual quick and quiet method of entry to Ducatos on aires involves manipulating the lock mechanism by inserting a blade behind the door handle from its edge. Even with deadlocks, the door locks are still susceptible to this method as the breach acts on the same direct physical linkage to the lock as operated by the key when inserted into the cylinder. It is the internal handle connections to the locking motors that are disabled by the deadlocking system. Tying a strap between the cab doors will secure them if you are worried about a thief opening them when you are in the vehicles, e.g. asleep at night. Alternatively, good quality Proplates fitted between the door handles and the door panel on the door(s) with external key cylinders (cab and rear if you have a PVC) will prevent that method of entry altogether, but make sure they come with internal lock shields as well as the external plates. ProtectaVan (Trade Vehicle Locks) make one of the best versions, IMO. https://www.protectavan.co.uk/vehicles/fiat/ducato-sept2006-present/ducato-sept-2006-present-proplate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCM Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Thanks Deneb, that's what I was afraid of! Tell me is I'm wrong, but are the door pulls strong enough to resist a really strong pull? If they are then a ratchet strap will do the job nicely! I've watched youtube videos of the fitting of the pro plates, looks to me that there is a strong chance of damage to the internal door trims so this is why, if necessary, I wondered about the HEOsafe or Thule type locks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The internal handle is plastic and part of the door trim moulding. It's not reinforced as far as I recall, but if you look on youtube for the Citroen Relay Proplate Fitting video, you can see where the panel bolts into a steel bracket that is in turn directly attached to the door panel. I'd recommend tying straps around the handle as close to that as possible, and it should be plenty robust enough. The guy in that video is certainly from the brute force/don't worry about any damage school of vehicle disassembly, but if you use the correct type of plastic trim removal tools and approach the job methodically and with care, you won't cause any damage. The waterproof membrane inside the door needs to be cut or pulled back. I normally try to carefully peel it away around its edge, applying some moderate heat as necessary, but if needs be you can cut it, again around the edge is best, as stick it in place again with waterproof adhesive tape afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 laimeduck - 2019-12-30 4:58 PM Of course the thieves can still push the windows in, or cut them out, but that takes time and they hopefully won't bother, It only takes a couple of seconds to lever a Dometic Seitz window and bust the catches. It happened to me in a busy carpark in Verona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I use a strap on my van but I dont run it straight across from handle to handle as I find it slides towards the front of the door. I run it below the seats and on the hab side. I also have a strap for the hab door at night and an external hab door lock for when leaving the van empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Yup, a few seconds is all it takes to lever a hab window and get in. Happened to us in the center of strassbourg so hardly an isolated spot. There's really no point in preventing someone to get in. All you can do is remove anything worth stealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 ChrisCM - 2019-12-30 6:16 PM are the door pulls strong enough to resist a really strong pull? No. They are only plastic held by self tappers in thin metal And someone pulling the edge of the door will have leverage on them :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 John52 - 2020-01-01 10:57 AM ChrisCM - 2019-12-30 6:16 PM are the door pulls strong enough to resist a really strong pull? No. They are only plastic held by self tappers in thin metal And someone pulling the edge of the door will have leverage on them :-S Whilst I don't completely disagree, the handle section of the internal panel is bolted to the door panel at each end. If the doors are strapped together so that there is no slack in the strap, it's going to be very difficult for someone to gain sufficient leverage without using a suitable implement and making a lot of noise, particularly if the strap is kept close to the metal bracket that the forward bolt locates through. If the original idea was to prevent someone sneaking in quietly during the night whilst the occupants are asleep, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Anyone trying to open the door with a blade behind the handle who find's it doesn't move is more likely to just move on to the next van IMO. Anyone who really wants to get it, straps or no straps, locks or no locks, may as already pointed out, just pull out a window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Deneb - 2020-01-01 12:06 PM John52 - 2020-01-01 10:57 AM ChrisCM - 2019-12-30 6:16 PM are the door pulls strong enough to resist a really strong pull? No. They are only plastic held by self tappers in thin metal And someone pulling the edge of the door will have leverage on them :-S Whilst I don't completely disagree, the handle section of the internal panel is bolted to the door panel at each end. If the doors are strapped together so that there is no slack in the strap, it's going to be very difficult for someone to gain sufficient leverage without using a suitable implement and making a lot of noise, particularly if the strap is kept close to the metal bracket that the forward bolt locates through. If the original idea was to prevent someone sneaking in quietly during the night whilst the occupants are asleep, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Anyone trying to open the door with a blade behind the handle who find's it doesn't move is more likely to just move on to the next van IMO. Anyone who really wants to get it, straps or no straps, locks or no locks, may as already pointed out, just pull out a window. You're right, sorry I was having a senior moment and confusing the X2/50 with another van. :-S The ends have a 6mm bolt into a rivet nut, so a bit better than the 'self tappers in thin metal' I said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCM Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 Ive tried the seatbelt method, this seems to work quite well and is quick to do, it allows the door to open about ? of an inch, I obviously didn’t try a full on yank, so perhaps this or the ratchet strap (which could, I suppose, be tightened to allow no obvious opening without a lot of force) combined with the OEM electrical/electronic deadlocking and alarm will be sufficient? If the intruder did carry on with his attack hopefully I would wake in time to scare him off! This would be a zero cost option too :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23addy46 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Hy - re this thread on door security - Deneb's comments re the 'door plates' - i fitted a pair of these 'stainless steel security plates' to our Bessacarr X250's doors after seeing the after effects of a 'screwdriver attack' that (as pointed out) simply by-passes the dead locks and simply moves the inner 'lock drive rods' - not cheap but very well produced but, unless you have some knowledge of the 'inner workings' of a door, ask a garage trim shop to fit them, they can be very fiddly, especially the drivers door ! A further point - if you have been 'screwdrivered' - the fitting of these door plates effectively do a good job of covering up the damage caused by the screwdriver attacks ! Hope this helps... Dave A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickVanBitz Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 It all depends on how far you want to go to protect your investment at the end of the day. The sad part about mechanical straps/locks etc is it only encourages the thief to go for a softer part of the van such as the plastic windows, or create substantial damage to the van trying to break in. Problem is as time goes by and vans change, replacing these plastic windows can be nothing short of a nightmare, with one known customer of ours having to find a company to make the window for him with a 12 week wait and quite a lot of money. If there is body damage, then it's the cost of repair/claim on the insurance to consider and if serious enough, a cancelled holiday as you may not he happy to continue with such damage. Most door locks and plastic window catches can be replaced easy enough even over the water whilst travelling, but window damage and bodywork damage...……….. that's a game changer there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 My son borrowed our m/h last year and they all went to France for a fortnight. Whilst there granddaughter, who knows everything, managed to lock the van with the keys still inside despite being told NOT to shut the habi door. Not knowing we had a spare key hidden somewhere outside (I'm not telling you where) son proceeded to break in via levering open the small kitchen window and climbed in through that. Managed to break the glass sink cover on his way in. New glass was only £16 and a two new catches a fiver, so not wildly expensive but a real nuisance. he was bright enough to move a catch from other windows and we had the new ones here by the time he got home. But he said the window popped open dead easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 ColinM50 - 2020-01-22 4:45 PM My son borrowed our m/h last year and they all went to France for a fortnight. Whilst there granddaughter, who knows everything, managed to lock the van with the keys still inside despite being told NOT to shut the habi door. Not knowing we had a spare key hidden somewhere outside (I'm not telling you where) son proceeded to break in via levering open the small kitchen window and climbed in through that. Managed to break the glass sink cover on his way in. New glass was only £16 and a two new catches a fiver, so not wildly expensive but a real nuisance. he was bright enough to move a catch from other windows and we had the new ones here by the time he got home. But he said the window popped open dead easily If only the burglars were as careful to minimise the damage when they break in :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve H Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I fitted these to the front doors and they work well. Just don't swing them down to the locked position whilst driving in case you have an accident. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00K812OMI/?coliid=IN4AGBTBVQJ8F&colid=QBRZGG27AYZY&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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