What changes after Jan 31st

[Bulletguy]

Barryd999 - 2020-01-30 12:57 PM

 

John52 - 2020-01-30 11:37 AM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-01-30 11:24 AM

people such as me have caused the decline of a large number of French villages

There. Fixed that for you ;-)

Why do you think villagers should be grateful for second home Cretins jacking up property prices out of their reach, and contributing sod all to the Community *-)

 

I bet the French love him. (lol)

 

Schengen rules are Schengen rules. I certainly have seen nothing that indicates deal or no deal we will get any kind of special treatment as regards extended stays within the Schengen group of countries.

But Imperialist Little Englanders such as FreakyFrank believe they are 'special'. You heard them on those YT clips...."British are never foreigners wherever they go"......."I voted Brexit because the UK needs control of its own borders" says the man living in someone else's borders thanks to the EU."

 

Staggering hypocrisy yet they cannot see it. *-)

[John52]

So to give his fans something to celebrate, BoJo is continuing the Tory tradition of borrowing more money for a tax cut for the better off. :-S

[John52]

Brian Kirby - 2020-01-26 6:20 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-01-26 5:59 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-01-26 5:50 PM

 

What happens is that from 23:00 GMT on that day the UK becomes a Third Country and we, as citizens of that country, for the first time since 1 Jan 1973, become restricted to spending a maximum of 90 days in any 180 day period inside the EU/Schengen zone for tourism/holiday purposes. Isn't that enough? :-S

Apart from the exodus of Brexit voting Brits now fleeing to Spain because "living in an EU country is more beneficial". :-S

 

But, as stated in the clip, they only gain that right (irrespective of how they voted! :-)) if they are granted residency, and stay in the country that grants them that privilege. Those of us who merely visit, lose our present right to spend unlimited time in the EU/Schengen zone.

 

But the clip indicates that freedom of movement ends after the transition period - not today.

Unless I'm missing something here the only thing so far is BoJo's ramping up borrowing to fund another tax cut for the better off?

[Brian Kirby]

Barryd999 - 2020-01-30 12:57 PM

 

John52 - 2020-01-30 11:37 AM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-01-30 11:24 AM

people such as me have caused the decline of a large number of French villages

There. Fixed that for you ;-)

Why do you think villagers should be grateful for second home Cretins jacking up property prices out of their reach, and contributing sod all to the Community *-)

 

I bet the French love him. (lol)

 

Schengen rules are Schengen rules. I certainly have seen nothing that indicates deal or no deal we will get any kind of special treatment as regards extended stays within the Schengen group of countries.

Personal/holiday travel is not covered in the withdrawal agreement, so our entitlement to unlimited travel as citizens of an EU state ends when we leave the EU at 11:00 pm tonight to become "third country" citizens, and so subject to the 90 days in 180 days rue.

 

Paul is right that the rule has always existed for EU state citizens, but that restriction applied only to time spent in a single state, and not to time spent within the EEA/Schengen zone. You just had to change country from time to time so as not to exceed 90 days in a single state. But, as enforcement was up to the individual states, and as no-one checked at the border crossings, the only people for whom extended stays were likely to be a problem would be those renting fixed accommodation for periods exceeding 90 days, where their presence would be a matter of record. But it's academic for us now, whatever the fine print.

[Barryd999]

Brian Kirby - 2020-01-31 7:06 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-01-30 12:57 PM

 

John52 - 2020-01-30 11:37 AM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-01-30 11:24 AM

people such as me have caused the decline of a large number of French villages

There. Fixed that for you ;-)

Why do you think villagers should be grateful for second home Cretins jacking up property prices out of their reach, and contributing sod all to the Community *-)

 

I bet the French love him. (lol)

 

Schengen rules are Schengen rules. I certainly have seen nothing that indicates deal or no deal we will get any kind of special treatment as regards extended stays within the Schengen group of countries.

Personal/holiday travel is not covered in the withdrawal agreement, so our entitlement to unlimited travel as citizens of an EU state ends when we leave the EU at 11:00 pm tonight to become "third country" citizens, and so subject to the 90 days in 180 days rue.

 

Paul is right that the rule has always existed for EU state citizens, but that restriction applied only to time spent in a single state, and not to time spent within the EEA/Schengen zone. You just had to change country from time to time so as not to exceed 90 days in a single state. But, as enforcement was up to the individual states, and as no-one checked at the border crossings, the only people for whom extended stays were likely to be a problem would be those renting fixed accommodation for periods exceeding 90 days, where their presence would be a matter of record. But it's academic for us now, whatever the fine print.

 

Everyone on all the motorhome forums is under the impression the 90 days thing does not come in until 2021 or later if thats extended Brian. Doesnt mean they are right of course.

[John52]

Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 12:21 AM

Everyone on all the motorhome forums is under the impression the 90 days thing does not come in until 2021 or later if thats extended Brian. Doesnt mean they are right of course.

Thats what the BBC are saying too

'You will can still travel freely with a passport until the end of the transition period, in 2020. This applies to UK citizens going to the EU and EU citizens coming to visit the UK.

After transition, tourists from the UK will be allowed to visit EU countries for up to 90 days in every 180 days without a visa, but they will not be allowed to work or study. The EU says this will remain the case for as long as the UK gives the same visa-free travel to EU citizens who want to visit the UK.' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46627083

[John52]

Bulletguy - 2020-01-25 3:51 PM

Brexpress and the Daily Fail will make stories up......

I find one of the most astonishing things is how Billionaire 'newspaper' owners, Hedge fund managers and Etonians have successfully cast themselves as opponents of the Elite *-)

[Bulletguy]

John52 - 2020-02-01 11:30 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-01-25 3:51 PM

Brexpress and the Daily Fail will make stories up......

I find one of the most astonishing things is how Billionaire 'newspaper' owners, Hedge fund managers and Etonians have successfully cast themselves as opponents of the Elite *-)

False prophets who easily deceived the gullible by switching their userbase hate from single mums and the unemployed to immigration, Muslims and the EU.

 

[Birdbrain]

Got to be one of the funniest threads on ere in ages ... Keep it up lads ... Chuckle

[Brian Kirby]

John52 - 2020-02-01 11:23 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 12:21 AM

Everyone on all the motorhome forums is under the impression the 90 days thing does not come in until 2021 or later if thats extended Brian. Doesnt mean they are right of course.

Thats what the BBC are saying too

'You will can still travel freely with a passport until the end of the transition period, in 2020. This applies to UK citizens going to the EU and EU citizens coming to visit the UK.

After transition, tourists from the UK will be allowed to visit EU countries for up to 90 days in every 180 days without a visa, but they will not be allowed to work or study. The EU says this will remain the case for as long as the UK gives the same visa-free travel to EU citizens who want to visit the UK.' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46627083

Well, see what you think this is saying: http://tinyurl.com/s9f523g

 

Download the .pdf and go to Section 1 "Transition Period" which, I agree, appears to say that so far as free movement is concerned, nothing changes. But click on the .html link in the first line, which will take you to Section 2, "Personal Scope" and read on. This appears to me to refer to movement rights gained through residency.

 

Then, move on the Section 5 "Entry and Exit" "After Brexit, will I be able to travel to the UK?" and look down to the last paragraph under that sub-heading, where it says "Entry rules to the UK for other EU citizens (those who have not resided in the UK at the end of the transition period) and to the EU for UK nationals fall outside the scope of the Withdrawal Agreement."

 

I read that to mean that because I have a) not resided in an EU state, and b) the Withdrawal Agreement does not stipulate otherwise, the right to enter the Schengen/EEA zones is limited to that for "third countries" (i.e. 90 days in any 180 day period), and that accordingly our EU citizen's rights do not carry over into the Transition Period. To me, that suggests that as of 11:00 pm on 31 January 2020 our rights to travel in excess of 90 days in 180 days effectively expired.

 

It is less than sparklingly clear, and it is possible that as this relates specifically to May's Withdrawal Agreement, Johnson's "renegotiated" Withdrawal Agreement makes different provision for travel by non-residents, but the Commission has not, so far as I can see, issued a revised version of the memo which, were that the case, I would have expected.

 

I have sought clarification as to whether the above is the correct interpretation from the French embassy, whose only response was that as we had not yet left they could not say, and from DExEU, who merely referred me to the government website in which all advice is given in terms of "may", and "might" - so completely non-specific!

 

I have relied in the Commission document for the simple reason that it is EU territory I wish to visit, so the EU seems more likely to know reliably what they have agreed to in terms of access than anyone else! :-D

 

The above seems also to be the conclusion reached in this Guardian article from last December - see "1. Holiday in the EU

 

You can still travel to any EU member state up to 31 December 2020 with no impediments such as visas. After Brexit it is likely that visa-free trips will continue for stays of up to 90 days." …………………....

"Brexit" took place at 11:00 pm on Friday 31 January 2020.

 

Ditto here, from last Thursday's Independent: https://tinyurl.com/wh59amf in which it states "Tourists will still be able to take short trips abroad to EU countries, plus Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland, for up to 90 days within any one 180-day period without needing to fill out any additional applications."

 

What do you think?

[John52]

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-01 6:37 PM

 

 

What do you think?

I Dunno Brian.

I think I'm glad I'm not trying to run a business from England when its all so confusing :-S

But I think I have found something that clearly has changed.

Germany's Extradition agreements are only to other EU countries - which no longer applies to the UK.

So Germany could become the next 'Costa Del Crime'

Don't know about the other EU countries.

[Barryd999]

I Dont think I would worry about it this year regardless. I guess we will find out if some of the Snow birds start returning beyond the end of March. Dave Pelmet could be the first to get caught! (lol)

[Bulletguy]

John52 - 2020-02-02 10:19 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-01 6:37 PM

 

 

What do you think?

I Dunno Brian.

I think I'm glad I'm not trying to run a business from England when its all so confusing :-S

But I think I have found something that clearly has changed.

Germany's Extradition agreements are only to other EU countries - which no longer applies to the UK.

So Germany could become the next 'Costa Del Crime'

Don't know about the other EU countries.

Also Austria and Slovenia will refuse to extradite as it's against their constitution;

 

All three countries are forbidden by their own constitutions to extradite their own citizens to non-EU countries, which the UK will became on Thursday.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/eu-countries-have-stopped-extraditing-criminals-to-uk-after-brexit-2020-1?r=US&IR=T

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-01 6:37 PM

 

John52 - 2020-02-01 11:23 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-02-01 12:21 AM

Everyone on all the motorhome forums is under the impression the 90 days thing does not come in until 2021 or later if thats extended Brian. Doesnt mean they are right of course.

Thats what the BBC are saying too

'You will can still travel freely with a passport until the end of the transition period, in 2020. This applies to UK citizens going to the EU and EU citizens coming to visit the UK.

After transition, tourists from the UK will be allowed to visit EU countries for up to 90 days in every 180 days without a visa, but they will not be allowed to work or study. The EU says this will remain the case for as long as the UK gives the same visa-free travel to EU citizens who want to visit the UK.' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46627083

Well, see what you think this is saying: http://tinyurl.com/s9f523g

 

Download the .pdf and go to Section 1 "Transition Period" which, I agree, appears to say that so far as free movement is concerned, nothing changes. But click on the .html link in the first line, which will take you to Section 2, "Personal Scope" and read on. This appears to me to refer to movement rights gained through residency.

 

Then, move on the Section 5 "Entry and Exit" "After Brexit, will I be able to travel to the UK?" and look down to the last paragraph under that sub-heading, where it says "Entry rules to the UK for other EU citizens (those who have not resided in the UK at the end of the transition period) and to the EU for UK nationals fall outside the scope of the Withdrawal Agreement."

 

I read that to mean that because I have a) not resided in an EU state, and b) the Withdrawal Agreement does not stipulate otherwise, the right to enter the Schengen/EEA zones is limited to that for "third countries" (i.e. 90 days in any 180 day period), and that accordingly our EU citizen's rights do not carry over into the Transition Period. To me, that suggests that as of 11:00 pm on 31 January 2020 our rights to travel in excess of 90 days in 180 days effectively expired.

 

It is less than sparklingly clear, and it is possible that as this relates specifically to May's Withdrawal Agreement, Johnson's "renegotiated" Withdrawal Agreement makes different provision for travel by non-residents, but the Commission has not, so far as I can see, issued a revised version of the memo which, were that the case, I would have expected.

 

What do you think?

I think a lot of Brits are going to find themselves paying fines with a marker on their passport at best, and at worst, kicked out of whichever country! Admittedly some will be innocent victims fallen foul of 'the rules'....but many are not and openly flout what they do. From reading comments on 'ex-pat' (immigrant Brits) forums, that much seems to be well known.

[Brian Kirby]

Barryd999 - 2020-02-02 10:30 AM

 

I Dont think I would worry about it this year regardless. I guess we will find out if some of the Snow birds start returning beyond the end of March. Dave Pelmet could be the first to get caught! (lol)

I would imagine that those who departed UK before 31/1/20 will not be penalised, as they will not (as far as I am aware) have had their date of Schengen/EEA entry recorded.

 

It will be interesting to find out whether people leaving after 1/2/20 have their passports stamped with their date of entry. If they do, I'd suspect that there will also be a "leave before date" somewhere, which would point to the border police being under instruction to do so. If not, then either they have forgotten, they have yet to be instructed, or the alternative interpretation that we retain our unlimited "right to roam" during transition is correct.

 

This is a bit fundamental, so it is very troubling and more than a bit irritating that there is still no clarity available.

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-02 6:23 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-02-02 10:30 AM

 

I Dont think I would worry about it this year regardless. I guess we will find out if some of the Snow birds start returning beyond the end of March. Dave Pelmet could be the first to get caught! (lol)

It will be interesting to find out whether people leaving after 1/2/20 have their passports stamped with their date of entry......

That's all electronic now though Brian and held on a database. When i was in Romania a couple of years ago and had four roadside checks by the police, they just keyed my reg number in and that told them the date, time and which border i'd entered at. Took just seconds and if they can do it, so can every other EU country...even vassal state third country UK! (lol)

[Bulletguy]

 

"We're getting our courts back from Germany" *-)

 

 

Caller on JOB....oh dear!

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/last-ever-brexit-caller-one-of-the-best/

 

A list of gems including sunburnt Barry and Diane who hate the EU that much they LIVE in Spain! *-)

 

https://twitter.com/indy38195936/status/1223601651027714049

[John52]

Bulletguy - 2020-02-03 3:07 PM

 

 

"We're getting our courts back from Germany" *-)

 

 

Caller on JOB....oh dear!

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/last-ever-brexit-caller-one-of-the-best/

 

A list of gems including sunburnt Barry and Diane who hate the EU that much they LIVE in Spain! *-)

 

https://twitter.com/indy38195936/status/1223601651027714049

 

No wonder Dominic Cummins stopped BoJo from being interviewed like the other party leaders :-S

[Bulletguy]

John52 - 2020-02-03 3:51 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-02-03 3:07 PM

 

 

"We're getting our courts back from Germany" *-)

 

 

Caller on JOB....oh dear!

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/last-ever-brexit-caller-one-of-the-best/

 

A list of gems including sunburnt Barry and Diane who hate the EU that much they LIVE in Spain! *-)

 

https://twitter.com/indy38195936/status/1223601651027714049

 

No wonder Dominic Cummins stopped BoJo from being interviewed like the other party leaders :-S

He'd have been torn to shreds in seconds. Seems Cummings just tried to bar selected political journalists from a Downing street briefing.......so all have walked out in support.

 

 

Johnson already blaming EU for 'reneging' on a free trade deal.....without explaining it hadn't been fully signed off, but it suits his agenda to continue blaming the EU as he knows his sycophants will swallow his lies. He's just playing a propaganda war to push no deal.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/01/boris-johnson-infuriated-eu-reneges-free-trade-deal/

[Bulletguy]

 

Question to Brexiter;

 

"So what did you vote for and what were you hoping for?"

 

Brexiter lady; "d'ya know i'm not entirely sure...." *-)

 

[Brian Kirby]

Bulletguy - 2020-02-02 7:22 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-02 6:23 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-02-02 10:30 AM

 

I Dont think I would worry about it this year regardless. I guess we will find out if some of the Snow birds start returning beyond the end of March. Dave Pelmet could be the first to get caught! (lol)

It will be interesting to find out whether people leaving after 1/2/20 have their passports stamped with their date of entry......

That's all electronic now though Brian and held on a database. When i was in Romania a couple of years ago and had four roadside checks by the police, they just keyed my reg number in and that told them the date, time and which border i'd entered at. Took just seconds and if they can do it, so can every other EU country...even vassal state third country UK! (lol)

According to the ETIAS website it comes into effect in 2021, which I assume to mean 1/1/21, Paul, so not quite yet active. But hey, I's going to be a huge database, and getting databases to work right first time is not a foolproof activity - so who knows? But, that they may record the passports of entrants at the time of entry logically requires the passport holder to be notified of what was recorded, and when they must leave, and to have the passport recorder on exit, with unused time stated, as otherwise there will be considerable trouble when people present their passports again to re-enter! :-D

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-03 6:15 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-02-02 7:22 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-02 6:23 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-02-02 10:30 AM

 

I Dont think I would worry about it this year regardless. I guess we will find out if some of the Snow birds start returning beyond the end of March. Dave Pelmet could be the first to get caught! (lol)

It will be interesting to find out whether people leaving after 1/2/20 have their passports stamped with their date of entry......

That's all electronic now though Brian and held on a database. When i was in Romania a couple of years ago and had four roadside checks by the police, they just keyed my reg number in and that told them the date, time and which border i'd entered at. Took just seconds and if they can do it, so can every other EU country...even vassal state third country UK! (lol)

According to the ETIAS website it comes into effect in 2021, which I assume to mean 1/1/21, Paul, so not quite yet active. But hey, I's going to be a huge database, and getting databases to work right first time is not a foolproof activity - so who knows? But, that they may record the passports of entrants at the time of entry logically requires the passport holder to be notified of what was recorded, and when they must leave, and to have the passport recorder on exit, with unused time stated, as otherwise there will be considerable trouble when people present their passports again to re-enter! :-D

I don't know what database the Romanian police accessed when they stopped me but it instantly 'connected' me to show them where i'd entered (into Romania), what date and time. My passport id number was also logged. The officers used what looked similar to an ipad but much thicker. They got every detail they wanted just from my registration number.

 

I would assume the same method extends throughout all Europe. All UK ports check-in booths have long been fitted with ANPR hence half the time they never bother asking to see your ticket, only your passport which gets scanned and recorded. So yes, in future Brexity Brits who like to puff their chest about being a "non-EU citizen" whilst sitting half the year inside an EU country thanks to the EU they've turned their backs on will see their wings get seriously clipped! ;-)

 

There will be no escape for these miscreants any longer.....they've burnt their boats in their eagerness to wreck it for everyone else and judging by those links i posted upthread, they still cannot give one logical reason as to how leaving will benefit everyone.

[Bulletguy]

 

Forgot to add this link;

 

How Will ETIAS & BREXIT Affect UK Citizens?

 

The free movement of people is one of the EU’s key principles. Once the UK is no longer a part of the union’s regulatory framework, British people will no longer be able to move around the continent as freely as before.

 

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/etias-visa-how-will-it-affect-uk-citizens

[747]

Bulletguy - 2020-02-03 7:54 PM

 

 

Forgot to add this link;

 

How Will ETIAS & BREXIT Affect UK Citizens?

 

The free movement of people is one of the EU’s key principles. Once the UK is no longer a part of the union’s regulatory framework, British people will no longer be able to move around the continent as freely as before.

 

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/etias-visa-how-will-it-affect-uk-citizens

 

A totally unnecessary bit of red tape which will not be echoed by Britain but sounds about right for the EU. 8-)

[Bulletguy]

747 - 2020-02-03 11:38 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-02-03 7:54 PM

 

 

Forgot to add this link;

 

How Will ETIAS & BREXIT Affect UK Citizens?

 

The free movement of people is one of the EU’s key principles. Once the UK is no longer a part of the union’s regulatory framework, British people will no longer be able to move around the continent as freely as before.

 

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/etias-visa-how-will-it-affect-uk-citizens

 

A totally unnecessary bit of red tape which will not be echoed by Britain but sounds about right for the EU. 8-)

Far from 'red tape' fom rules were already there and UK, when still a member state, agreed to them and enjoyed the unfettered access it gave its citizens but thats now changed for UK since they chose to turn their back on EU, throw fom down the pan, and become a third country.

 

"From 2021, UK citizens will not be able to enter the Schengen Area with only their passports. The EU Commission has confirmed that UK citizens will need to pay a fee to visit Europe and will need to complete the online ETIAS application form before setting off."

 

"However, the implementation of the law is conditional. Members of the European Parliament also said this arrangement is conditional upon the UK granting EU nationals the same benefits. This means British travelers will only be visa-exempt as long as EU citizens can enter the UK without a visa."

 

The EU are protecting the interests of their 27 member states and if UK want visa-free travel they must extend the same to EU nationals.....seems fair to me. Third country UK cannot start stomping its feet expecting some kind of 'specialty'. Our cherry picking days are over. There are some resident immigrant Brits in for a rude awakening too when they find unless they apply for citizenship of their chosen country, they won't be able to move freely from one country to another.