Gman Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 This has been all over another M/H forum lately, The AA refuse to recover cars from smart motorways as they are not safe. BBC 1 tonight at 8.30, panorama, "Britians killer motorways?" Our son is an AA patrolman, and we worry about him, a lot, If you see the yellow beacons on any recovery vehicle, anywhere, SLOW DOWN AND MOVE OVER. WE don't want to bury him!!!!! steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 This AutoExpress article https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/99537/what-is-a-smart-motorway-speed-cameras-safety-and-hard-shoulder-use says Furthermore, recovery firms such as the AA, RAC and Green Flag refuse to recover vehicles from live lanes. Unless the driver is able to get their broken-down car to an emergency refuge area - which are spaced up to two miles apart from one another along smart motorways - they will have to wait for either the police or Highways England to physically shut the lane before their breakdown company will recover the vehicle. and Highways England’s advice for recovery operators can be viewed here https://highwaysengland.co.uk/advice-for-recovery-operators-on-highways-englands-smart-motorway-network/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 I have always thought making the hard shoulder a live lane,its just stupid, the idiots who came up with this idea need sacking. If the traffic is congested, so what,you just just have to wait till it thins out, if a crash occurs in this so called live lane with wreckage and possibly bodies scattered across the motorway your still going to get hold ups then. Its just not been thought through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 As a ‘smart’ motorway that has no hard-shoulder and miles-apart ‘refuges’must be more dangerous than the traditional type, I’m certain that the safety implications were recognised when the idea was first thought up. Part of the M27 in Hampshire is being converted into a smart motoway (£244m cost) and MPs for that region are now saying things like "Smart motorways increase capacity but it is far from certain they are as safe as traditional motorways.” “Increased traffic flow should not come at the expense of road safety. The safety of our road users must come above all else. Recent figures combined with warnings issued by campaigners indicate that implementing smart motorways with no hard shoulder could put road users at risk.” It’s obvious that - if a breakdown occurs and the vehicle is stranded in the inner lane - if traffic flow is high, the risk of that vehicle being hit will also be high. And it’s not easy to see how that risk can successfully be minimised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristol170kj Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Having watched the TV last night and witnessing a "near miss" on the new "Smart Motorway" last week, I think it is wrong to call them "smart motorways". They are not smart at all. I did think they had a camera system watching the flow of traffic but it looks like this isn't the case and we are now reliant on non existent radar devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 It’s too late to argue about the applicability of the word “smart” nowadays, but you might want to read this https://planonsoftware.com/uk/whats-new/blog/what-does-the-word-smart-actually-mean/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 The 'smart motorway' near us has been open for 8 years, I have two observations. In general use it is safer than before due to easing of congestion, but when there's a breakdown it's much more dangerous. There is an enquiry due, I suspect it will find little differance in safety on converted motorways compared to their previous set up, but this might ignore the fact that adding an extra lane and keeping a hard shoulder will have been still safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 The word 'smart' defines achievement, the thinkers amongst us have another explanation 'smart arse' indicates they think they know it all, Dr Beeching was such a person and now the rail network is being reinstated. Smart motorways will be challenged by its millions of users and cannot survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Duck Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Mid November 2019, in a dark, wet, evening rush hour on a 'Smart' length of the North bound M1 just South of the M18 Junction My car was hit by a Spanish HGV that wandered out of his lane into mine. We ended up parked on what had been the hard shoulder but was now the inside lane. It was the most frightening thing I've ever been involved in. The lane was never closed, the traffic in it was simply dodging around us and the HGV. The only warning the approaching traffic had was the HGV's hazard flashers. From the other side of the crash barrier my Wife phoned 999. She was asked where we were and if there were any injuries. There were not. She was then asked if both vehicles were mobile which they were and was told that once we had exchanged details we should be on our way and that neither the Police or the Highways Agency would attend. We were, quite simply, left on our own!! FD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive_Adams Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Firstly I would like to say that I haven't made my mind up yet regarding "smart motorways" I have driven a lot in Holland and they do seam to work, they are obviously monitored all the time the overhead gantries giving you the real time information, also the emergency services police and breakdown are very quick to respond. I wonder how they are regarded by the average public in Holland etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-01-28 9:52 AM It’s too late to argue about the applicability of the word “smart” nowadays, but you might want to read this https://planonsoftware.com/uk/whats-new/blog/what-does-the-word-smart-actually-mean/ Quite clearly the word " smart " has been taken over by marketing people, and no longer has any relation to the word " clever ". :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Duck Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 I've driven in Holland a lot and have a number of Dutch friends. The difference there is that the motorways are fully and constantly monitored such that lane closure/warning signs are almost instant. Other than very small sections in the UK, ours are not monitored to the same standard and in the majority of cases, it takes around 15 minutes before any reaction - if, indeed, they can be bothered at all. FD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Fred Duck - 2020-01-28 12:40 PM I've driven in Holland a lot and have a number of Dutch friends. The difference there is that the motorways are fully and constantly monitored such that lane closure/warning signs are almost instant. Other than very small sections in the UK, ours are not monitored to the same standard and in the majority of cases, it takes around 15 minutes before any reaction - if, indeed, they can be bothered at all. FD I wouldn't be at all surprised if, in a few years time, we have an ' enquiry ' to find out who on earth signed this idea off. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive_Adams Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Fred Duck - 2020-01-28 12:40 PM I've driven in Holland a lot and have a number of Dutch friends. The difference there is that the motorways are fully and constantly monitored such that lane closure/warning signs are almost instant. Other than very small sections in the UK, ours are not monitored to the same standard and in the majority of cases, it takes around 15 minutes before any reaction - if, indeed, they can be bothered at all. FD Fred, I thought as much, so here we are again taking an idea that does work and through cost cutting we will be saving by not constantly monitoring, cash but not lives, and then it will be deemed a failure. 15 minutes response to discovering an accident is just not acceptable by any standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Hi Where there is no hard shoulder, ie on so called smart motorways, I never drive on the inside lane, I deem the risk to be too high I stick to the second lane but acknowledge there is still a risk as traffic may swerve out to avoid an obstruction therefore it is imperative to obey the 2 second rule as a minimum. If I were unlucky enough to breakdown on such a section I would be exiting the vehicle on the offside as a matter of urgency. Ie as soon as the vehicle was stationary, and try to move behind the crash barrier at least 50 metres away whilst waving a hi viz vest. It’s important to have a plan before these things happen so you can act quickly and decisively. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 bristol170kj - 2020-01-28 9:42 AM Having watched the TV last night and witnessing a "near miss" on the new "Smart Motorway" last week, I think it is wrong to call them "smart motorways". They are not smart at all. I did think they had a camera system watching the flow of traffic but it looks like this isn't the case and we are now reliant on non existent radar devices. One was shown on the Motorway documentary series which has just started. Taken from dashcam footage of a following HGV, it showed another HGV tractor unit slam into a car broken down on a "smart" section with such force, it overturned the HGV tractor unit. Fortunately the car occupants had exited their car immediately it broke down otherwise they would certainly have been killed. The truck driver escaped with minor injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 malc d - 2020-01-28 1:05 PM Fred Duck - 2020-01-28 12:40 PM I've driven in Holland a lot and have a number of Dutch friends. The difference there is that the motorways are fully and constantly monitored such that lane closure/warning signs are almost instant. Other than very small sections in the UK, ours are not monitored to the same standard and in the majority of cases, it takes around 15 minutes before any reaction - if, indeed, they can be bothered at all. FD I wouldn't be at all surprised if, in a few years time, we have an ' enquiry ' to find out who on earth signed this idea off. :-( Which would result in denial and buck passing until they'd managed to throw some office clerk under the bus. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 I think the real issue is using the hard shoulder as a normal driving lane, not the 'smart' motorway. The idea of the smart motorway is that the cameras monitor the traffic and slow it down with variable speed limits to try to ensure a good flow. There are many smart motorways in Europe that have hard shoulders. We seem to be going down the road of using the hard shoulder as a driving lane, which is far from smart, but rather stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 rael - 2020-01-28 4:47 PM I think the real issue is using the hard shoulder as a normal driving lane, not the 'smart' motorway. The idea of the smart motorway is that the cameras monitor the traffic and slow it down with variable speed limits to try to ensure a good flow. There are many smart motorways in Europe that have hard shoulders. We seem to be going down the road of using the hard shoulder as a driving lane, which is far from smart, but rather stupid. As this, the UK are trying to do it 'on the cheap', not only that but even cheaper than when first proposed, i.e. the safety areas are much further apart than they should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 rael - 2020-01-28 4:47 PM I think the real issue is using the hard shoulder as a normal driving lane, not the 'smart' motorway. The idea of the smart motorway is that the cameras monitor the traffic and slow it down with variable speed limits to try to ensure a good flow. There are many smart motorways in Europe that have hard shoulders. We seem to be going down the road of using the hard shoulder as a driving lane, which is far from smart, but rather stupid. Exactly And its worse in England than anywhere else in the EU because traffic densities are greater. The Short Termism of English politics has discouraged long term investments like roads that don't show their benefit before the next election, Can't leave a safe gap because someone else immediately overtakes and cuts in front. We just need to remember why hard shoulders were built in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 A couple of days ago on normal TV at 2.30am a Panorama programme showed the original designers saying it was dangerous and not as it was designed. Those with Sky may be able to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 The Panorama programme can be viewed here https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000dtqv/panorama-britains-killer-motorways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinP Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I'm sure they were sold into the London centred, frequently none driving, politicians as a 'Smart' idea. Put loads of cameras on each stretch of congested motorway..then we can cycle the speed limits up and down and catch people 'speeding' automatically. This is 'income generation' -raising a fortune in fines and deterring people from using motorways.; a double whammy. Must be environmentally friendly too as its not using up any more land..sounds like a smart idea. These cameras now operate 24/7 and fine people going over 70mph if no variable speed is displayed! .....and of course these motorways are now fully equipped to charge all users as 'Tolled' sections - an idea which has regularly been floated by government. Is it just because I've been driving for 50 years that I am suspicious of the motivations of our transport mandarins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.