Self isolation in a motorhome

[Sapper520]

I am on standby for an essential journey. My son and his wife are in rolls that require them to take orders........if the schools close I will be doing a 400 miles round trip to collect their two children. They’re both public servants and can’t walk away or work from home.

 

It’ll be straight there and straight back.

[Deneb]

jumpstart - 2020-03-17 2:57 PM

 

And we can take the kids to school.......so where I was talking about a trip not meeting people , we still connect with kids. Also government advice is people can go out for walks.

 

 

A graph from current IC modelling based on what is currently known from interventions in China, Italy and other affected countries. As can be seen, school closures appear to be the least effective of interventions intended to control viral spread.

 

You can go for walks, as long as you distance yourself from other people. I did that this morning, as I do every day. I no longer carry my water bottle, as I have to use hands which have touched gate latches and stiles to open it. I try to open gates by touching parts of the latch that are not usually touched, but then maybe everyone else is doing the same. Where possible, I use my knees or sleeves. I avoid touching my face - not easy, and on my return I washed my waterproof watch and phone cover with soapy water, before putting my trousers and jacket in the washing machine and taking a shower.

 

Good luck attempting that in a motorhome.

 

[Brian Kirby]

david lloyd - 2020-03-17 2:51 PM

 

Then it would appear the only way to stop the spread of infection is to isolate everyone. Never mind essential journeys. Just shut everything down.

 

Or, maybe a more common sense approach, as I mention in my post #8 above, is to treat the advice of 'self isolation' as meaning 'social distancing'.

 

As someone with over 25 years experience in the front line emergency ambulance service I am acutely aware of the ramifications of infection control but, without a complete isolation of everyone from everyone, it cannot be contained. Why are the schools in the UK not closed? Asked one poster. Maybe it's because the government don't want to risk all the elderly grandparents catching the virus whilst looking after their grandchildren. Two of our children work in mental health and cannot walk away from their post to look after their children unless someone steps into their place to take care of the mentally ill in the community or the secure mental health unit where they work.

 

The comments above are absolutely valid but I don't believe for one moment that any one of the measures announced or in force will stop the spread of this disease in its entirety. My wife and I have no desire to put ourselves, our families or anyone else at further risk but I believe by taking responsible action in avoiding social contact we are doing our part to make it so.

 

David

Understood, David, and that, in a way, was my point. We each have to make decisions, in the wider interest, to restrict where, when, and why, we travel from home. The clear message is to stay at home as much as possible, while continuing to maintain what is essential for life. We need to respond to the spirit of the government's exhortations, and not look to exploit the gaps in the fine print for our own benefit.

 

In short, we must make judgements, based inevitably on inadequate information, that err on the side of caution and public safety.

 

It is no longer possible to stop the spread of Covid-19, it is here, and it will spread. Halting the spread is not in contemplation.

 

What we are being asked to do is to minimise to the maximum extent possible the rate at which it spreads, in the interests of maintaining something resembling an economy (on which we all, in different ways, directly and indirectly, rely for our incomes), while at the same time maintaining a health service that can, should we need it, treat our illnesses and injuries.

 

In the absence of repeated testing no-one can tell whether they have the virus before the symptoms appear, while some, apparently, carry the virus and remain asymptomatic. It is further unclear whether, or at what point, either group may infect others (although it seems abundantly clear that those with symptoms are infectious).

 

Because of the doubt as to whether or not we might be harbouring the virus, it seems we should all assume we are potentially infectious (or open to infection), and act accordingly. So yes, practice social distancing rather than self isolation, but does that concept really embrace travelling from home, albeit in a motorhome, to a facility we must book into, and pay for - which it seems must involve some element of contact with at least the owner of the facility? Does that fit comfortably with minimising to the maximum extent possible the rate at which the virus spreads?

 

It is disappointing, disagreeable, and inconvenient, but surely not to the same extent as a dose of Covid-19 - whether for ourselves, or for those to whom we may unwittingly bequeath it. It seems that is the attitude we are being asked to adopt: otherwise I assume, restrictive legislation will follow.

[jumpstart]

Deneb - 2020-03-17 3:32 PM

 

jumpstart - 2020-03-17 2:57 PM

 

And we can take the kids to school.......so where I was talking about a trip not meeting people , we still connect with kids. Also government advice is people can go out for walks.

 

 

A graph from current IC modelling based on what is currently known from interventions in China, Italy and other affected countries. As can be seen, school closures appear to be the least effective of interventions intended to control viral spread.

 

You can go for walks, as long as you distance yourself from other people. I did that this morning, as I do every day. I no longer carry my water bottle, as I have to use hands which have touched gate latches and stiles to open it. I try to open gates by touching parts of the latch that are not usually touched, but then maybe everyone else is doing the same. Where possible, I use my knees or sleeves. I avoid touching my face - not easy, and on my return I washed my waterproof watch and phone cover with soapy water, before putting my trousers and jacket in the washing machine and taking a shower.

 

Good luck attempting that in a motorhome.

 

 

Yes understand that, though not much point distancing yourself from others when you are still taking kids to school,where there are other families,kids ,teachers. We do about 80 miles a month hiking so will try and continue much in the way you have described. Although we actually have cancelled the trip, I think the point still remains if you avoid people there’s not much wrong with doing the journey. Is it essential for a person who stacks shelves in a supermarket to drive to work. If those people feel it isn’t essential for them to do it , then without stackers or checkout ladies supermarkets will grind to a halt. Both my daughters companies have told staff they should continue coming in to the office. My granddaughter still goes to school.

[david lloyd]

Deneb - 2020-03-17 3:32 PM

 

jumpstart - 2020-03-17 2:57 PM

 

And we can take the kids to school.......so where I was talking about a trip not meeting people , we still connect with kids. Also government advice is people can go out for walks.

 

 

A graph from current IC modelling based on what is currently known from interventions in China, Italy and other affected countries. As can be seen, school closures appear to be the least effective of interventions intended to control viral spread.

 

You can go for walks, as long as you distance yourself from other people. I did that this morning, as I do every day. I no longer carry my water bottle, as I have to use hands which have touched gate latches and stiles to open it. I try to open gates by touching parts of the latch that are not usually touched, but then maybe everyone else is doing the same. Where possible, I use my knees or sleeves. I avoid touching my face - not easy, and on my return I washed my waterproof watch and phone cover with soapy water, before putting my trousers and jacket in the washing machine and taking a shower.

 

Good luck attempting that in a motorhome.

 

 

Well, yes, you make the point eloquently. Even in your world you cannot avoid touching something that someone else may have touched. By all means isolate yourself as much as you can but sooner or later you will need food or some essential even if you walk to get it. All our simple everyday tasks bring us into contact with others or where others have been. I can see the very point Brian is making about the risk we pose to site staff (never mind other campers) if we continue to travel in our motorhome but that also cuts directly across the same argument Brian raises about the need to try and keep some vestige of an economy moving.

 

Ultimately it is a fine balance between keeping some semblance of life and the risk of human contact. I think the government are trying their best to get the population to draw on their common sense rather than take draconian action that, ultimately couldn't be properly enforced and probably then coukd still not contain the spread.

 

I'd go for common sense in addition to thinking of my fellow man.

 

David

[Deneb]

jumpstart - 2020-03-17 4:28 PM

 

Yes understand that, though not much point distancing yourself from others when you are still taking kids to school,where there are other families,kids ,teachers. We do about 80 miles a month hiking so will try and continue much in the way you have described. Although we actually have cancelled the trip, I think the point still remains if you avoid people there’s not much wrong with doing the journey. Is it essential for a person who stacks shelves in a supermarket to drive to work. If those people feel it isn’t essential for them to do it , then without stackers or checkout ladies supermarkets will grind to a halt. Both my daughters companies have told staff they should continue coming in to the office. My granddaughter still goes to school.

 

Supply of goods and services is obviously essential, as we all have to eat and buy other necessities for survival, hence goods vehicles will continue to make journeys.

 

As Daniel Falush, Professor at Institute Pasteur in Shanghai says in his Twitter thread which is linked to in the other Covid-19 thread running here, it must all be about getting the rate of transmission below R=1. That is the only way to stop this virus, "And the way to do this is exactly what the WHO recommends and what other countries in Europe are doing, which is to introduce strict social distance measures ASAP, with the goal of easing off later. If done well, it will be less painful than you expect."

 

But it must be done now, and it must be done hard, which I don't think our government have yet fully taken on board, or perhaps they are still concerned with balancing economic impact against lives.

 

I do actually agree with you regarding schools. They should be shut in my opinion. My sister-in-law is a university lecturer, and as of yesterday she and her colleagues are all working from home, with lectures being given online.

 

My son works and lives at a local pub. They were disappointed at the apparent ignorance of the governments advice by customers yesterday evening and this lunchtime, so they have now voluntarily closed until further notice for the good of all. He has been guaranteed his accommodation rent free, together with a share of existing food stocks, and they will continue to pay him the equivalent of statutory sick pay, as the say that is what they will be able to reclaim from the government. I applaud their decision and hope that the necessity will be short lived. If other similar businesses follow suit, perhaps it will be.

 

Well done for cancelling your trip though. I am absolutely certain that it is the right thing to do, and the more we do now, however unpalatable in the short term, the sooner we can hope to return to at least some semblance of normality.

 

It does seem that at least some elements of society are pre-empting government policy of their own accord in the absence of what should in my opinion be restrictions imposed by emergency powers if necessary, instead of the current oh-so-woolly advice.

 

Enjoy your walks whilst you can, and hope that they will be allowed to continue if we all behave responsibly. I see that the latest restrictions in France make it an offence to be outdoors except in strictly defined circumstances.

[jumpstart]

My point about the supermarkets is if the checkout people all say ooooo don’t think I want to sit here all day while a steady stream of people file past, could cause them a problem,because they will be at risk.

We have hugged our granddaughter goodbye today and probably won’t see her for a month. We can walk to a Farm shop for groceries and the butcher we can walk to will make meat orders ready for pick up. So can still get the exercise in as it’s all countryside here. When college’s close I can’t imagine for one moment 17 to 20 year old sitting at home with Mum & Dad each evening.

[david lloyd]

jumpstart - 2020-03-17 6:18 PM

 

When college’s close I can’t imagine for one moment 17 to 20 year old sitting at home with Mum & Dad each evening.

 

Then you would be absolutely correct if the pictures on the evening news from Newcastle are anything to go by - as soon as the universities and colleges closed their doors the bars and clubs were so packed they spiller out onto the streets - still, were made of stern stuff in the north.

 

David

[John52]

Deneb - 2020-03-17 9:38 AM

Isn't it time to put some social responsibility above personal gratification? Sadly I do realise from over 40 years working in the public sector that a lot of British people are not very good at that. .

Yes.

I think its long been the case that most English people put individualism above working together for the common good - which is why England never had a revolution, or responsible trade unions to avoid the gig economy and exploitation they have now.

So infected people are not going to self isolate and Coronovirus is going to spread.

I'm reminded of something Ronald Regan said 'the most feared words in the English Language are I'm from the Government and I'm here to help' What they are doing is delaying the inevitable, and busting the economy in the process - the economy we all depend on to provide us with the essentials of life.

But .... There is an elephant in the room here, which everybody is avoiding because it is too difficult.

Population is growing at a rate the earth can't sustain and we are seeing the start of the problem in deforestation, global warming, starvation, housing crisis, immigration, etc etc.

If the old and weak don't die to make room for the next generation, ask yourselves what is going to happen.

[jumpstart]

John52 - 2020-03-18 7:23 AM

 

Deneb - 2020-03-17 9:38 AM

Isn't it time to put some social responsibility above personal gratification? Sadly I do realise from over 40 years working in the public sector that a lot of British people are not very good at that. .

Yes.

I think its long been the case that most English people put individualism above working together for the common good - which is why England never had a revolution, or responsible trade unions to avoid the gig economy and exploitation they have now.

So infected people are not going to self isolate and Coronovirus is going to spread.

I'm reminded of something Ronald Regan said 'the most feared words in the English Language are I'm from the Government and I'm here to help' What they are doing is delaying the inevitable, and busting the economy in the process - the economy we all depend on to provide us with the essentials of life.

But .... There is an elephant in the room here, which everybody is avoiding because it is too difficult.

Population is growing at a rate the earth can't sustain and we are seeing the start of the problem in deforestation, global warming, starvation, housing crisis, immigration, etc etc.

If the old and weak don't die to make room for the next generation, ask yourselves what is going to happen.

 

Delaying the inevitable is the whole point. To give time to the NHS to not be swamped. The economy is way past anything normal now,every company in the country Is effected and will need bailing out.

The old do die anyway, but I get your point that a lot of resources are spent keeping very sick old people alive, but that is what a careing society does.

[John52]

jumpstart - 2020-03-18 7:49 AM

 

 

Delaying the inevitable is the whole point. To give time to the NHS to not be swamped. The economy is way past anything normal now,every company in the country Is effected and will need bailing out.

.

The high street and and casual dining sector was already in crisis. The strong companies won't take the taxpayer backed loans, but the no-hopers will.

Then who will bail the economy out?

Alright for countries that have built up reserves, but all Britain has is a record ... and rising...national debt.

And thats before the £30bn spending spree budget, the hit from Brexit, reduced tax receipts, increased benefit claims etc.

Jeremy Corbyn might have got into Her Majesty's tax havens to make the billionaire owners of the Daily Mail and Telegraph pay tax. But BoJo isn't going to do that is he. More money printing instead. We have already seen a sharp fall in the pound which will lead to inflation - the stealthiest stealth tax of all. Problem with inflation is it can easily get out of control...

[John52]

jumpstart - 2020-03-18 7:49 AM

t I get your point that a lot of resources are spent keeping very sick old people alive, but that is what a careing society does.

.... especially when they are more likely to vote ;-)

[malc d]

John52 - 2020-03-18 7:23 AM

 

 

If the old and weak don't die to make room for the next generation, ask yourselves what is going to happen.

 

 

If people are being born at a faster rate than people dying, the answer, in a humane society, is to reduce the birth rate, not cull the old.

 

:-|

[david lloyd]

malc d - 2020-03-18 9:22 AM

 

John52 - 2020-03-18 7:23 AM

 

 

If the old and weak don't die to make room for the next generation, ask yourselves what is going to happen.

 

 

If people are being born at a faster rate than people dying, the answer, in a humane society, is to reduce the birth rate, not cull the old.

 

:-|

 

Well said - but I'm not sure it worked that well in China.......

 

[Sapper520]

Think people may be getting ‘Social Isolation’ and ‘Self Isolation’ mixed up.

 

My In-laws claim to be ‘self isolating’.......but having no symptoms of anything, I point out you’re Social Isolating, which at their age is a good move.

 

There is a difference. ;-)

[HarveyHeaven]

...hospital beds...how do you know you won't breakdown, or get a flat tyre, you could no longer self-isolate in those circumstances and they are beyond your control. So think of others as well as yourself and stay safe and help to keep others safe also. :-D

[John52]

malc d - 2020-03-18 9:22 AM

 

John52 - 2020-03-18 7:23 AM

 

 

If the old and weak don't die to make room for the next generation, ask yourselves what is going to happen.

 

 

If people are being born at a faster rate than people dying, the answer, in a humane society, is to reduce the birth rate, not cull the old.

 

:-|

 

Wasn't suggesting a cull (well maybe one or two in chatterbox could do with a visit from Dr Shipman ;-) )

But how much should we borrow and spend on delaying the inevitable.

For a politician with an eye on the next election the skys the limit.

The next generation will have to pay it back but they haven't got a vote yet.

 

Reducing the birth rate brings other problems

1) it isn't happening

2) If it did there wouldn't be enough young people working to support the old - now the country has nothing in the kitty but a mountain of debt.

[malc d]

John52 - 2020-03-18 2:34 PM

 

malc d - 2020-03-18 9:22 AM

 

John52 - 2020-03-18 7:23 AM

 

 

If the old and weak don't die to make room for the next generation, ask yourselves what is going to happen.

 

 

If people are being born at a faster rate than people dying, the answer, in a humane society, is to reduce the birth rate, not cull the old.

 

:-|

 

The next generation will have to pay it back but they haven't got a vote yet.

 

Reducing the birth rate brings other problems

1) it isn't happening

2) If it did there wouldn't be enough young people working to support the old - now the country has nothing in the kitty but a mountain of debt.

 

 

 

1) The birth rate in many countries IS falling.

 

2) Once everything else is mechanised in a few years the only jobs available will be in looking after people. i.e. NHS and care homes

 

 

( … and the next generation is always paying for the spending of the last generation, so nothing new there ).

 

;-)

[chas]

Well Easter will soon be here, some forecasters are predicting a heatwave ( if only) but will be interesting to see what happens with staycation holiday makers.

 

It was I who started this thread about how feasible to self isolate somewhere quiet in my motorhome, with what I have read, I have decided its just not worth it, my neglected garden will receive a lot of attention.

[Billggski]

If couples are staying in because of the pandemic then the birth rate will probably go up in nine months time.

But then the murder rate might be increasing by a similar figure?

[david lloyd]

chas - 2020-03-18 3:42 PM

 

Well Easter will soon be here, some forecasters are predicting a heatwave ( if only) but will be interesting to see what happens with staycation holiday makers.

 

It was I who started this thread about how feasible to self isolate somewhere quiet in my motorhome, with what I have read, I have decided its just not worth it, my neglected garden will receive a lot of attention.

 

That's a shame Chas - I too have a list of jobs to do at home (if there is anywhere left open for me to get the materials) so I'm looking forward to ticking those off my (wife's) list - but, having closely read the government advice published 16 March 2020 by Public Health England, we will still be venturing out on fairly local trips but avoiding as much social contact as possible. Those nice people at C&MC have even written to me today to say they are keeping the sites open for me to use but are taking extra precautions to protect me such as closing on site restaurants and doing extra cleaning.

 

There is every possibility that the advice will change to represent somethin more akin to the French regime which will preclude such excursions and if that happens then we will, of course, follow the advice.

 

David

[John52]

HarveyHeaven - 2020-03-18 11:54 AM

 

...hospital beds...how do you know you won't breakdown, or get a flat tyre, you could no longer self-isolate in those circumstances and they are beyond your control. So think of others as well as yourself and stay safe and help to keep others safe also. :-D

 

Well I suppose I should get this thread back on topic before I upset all the moderators again ;-)

I take your points but there is always something to worry about, and their comes a point where you have to take a chance and go for it - unless you are going to stay at home till when?

Some people talk as though they will isolate for a couple of weeks till its over

But I see no reason why this virus won't still be around next year, and the year after...

I won't get over it until I get it and build up immunity, or die trying

So I'm wild camping along the south coast, although I live alone in a detached house so could isolate myself easier than most.

 

[laimeduck]

Having listened to the PM's briefing tonight, and read various articles ref the European attitude, I think it is highly likely that there will be a clampdown on our freedom of movement within a week or so. Maybe along the lines of what is happening in France & Spain etc.

 

I see no sense at all in making any plans to travel at the moment.

 

The government/scientific advise is there for a reason - heed it please and save pressure on the NHS and lives.

 

That's my take.

 

Jeremy

[Derek Uzzell]

 

I’ve deleted the last 3 postings from this thread.

 

The thread seems to me to be a reasonable subject for discussion and motorhome-related, so not a candidate for Chatterbox.

 

If you want to continue with it, that’s fine by me: if future postings go seriously off topic or clearly become Chatterboxy I’ll just delete them.

[John52]

Deneb - 2020-03-17 3:32 PM

 

I have to use hands which have touched gate latches and stiles to open it.

 

 

Get a hat, then you can use it like a glove, without ever touching the top of your head part that touches the gate handles ?

I heard the virus can't live more than an hour or so outside the body, so maybe you don't need to wash your clothes every time you have been out?