John52 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-04-16 3:32 PM they were rubbish too in their preparations along with the rest of the EU countries :D ....... Not that our resident Remoaner Losers will accept that FACT >:-) ....... That may be so - but at least they were better than BoJo because they started the lockdown sooner, and got their supplies secured earlier, so have less damage, and are now in a position to start coming out of lockdown. So if they were rubbish what is BoJo *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Britains stranded abroad need BoJo to announce his plans too. He doesn't bother to make use of yet another EU funded scheme - then moans we aren't getting our money's worth https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/16/uk-flies-home-1000-britons-but-65000-left-in-limbo-by-covid-19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 John52 - 2020-04-16 7:13 PM pelmetman - 2020-04-16 3:32 PM they were rubbish too in their preparations along with the rest of the EU countries :D ....... Not that our resident Remoaner Losers will accept that FACT >:-) ....... That may be so - but at least they were better than BoJo because they started the lockdown sooner, and got their supplies secured earlier, so have less damage, and are now in a position to start coming out of lockdown. So if they were rubbish what is BoJo *-) Hmmm better? ;-) .............. Europe: 925 536 cases; the five countries reporting most cases are Spain (177 633), Italy (165 155), Germany (130 450), France (106 206) and United Kingdom (98 476). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 John52 - 2020-04-16 7:06 PMStuartO - 2020-04-16 1:01 PM the more gullible and stupider peole in our society (and even some of the cleverer ones) can be misled in potentially dangerous ways -.... Boris, right from the beginning of his daily coronavirus briefings, was almost unctiously courteous to the journalists, Yep, he had you misledWhat would have been courteous would be to have answered the question he was asked, not the question he would have liked to be asked. Most of the time professional interviewees (eg politicians) avoid answering questions in order to grab the opportunity to get their pre-prepared soundbite point over. "First let me say this ..." etc. It's all a question of technique. In my working days my employer sent me on a course on how to cope with interviews by journalists, run by a journalist who wanted to remain anonymous, and it was an absolute revelation. After that experience I couldn't help spotting the techniques in use and I found myself giving them marks for clever use of them, almost forgetting about the subject matter altogether. The interviewee has to be clever about timing things and taking opportunities and once you've been taught how to do it you can see it all in action, clear as day.But the politicians holding the daily COVID-19 briefings have been using a radically different approach, still sticking to the principle of getting your soundbites over ("Stay home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives" etc) but they thank the journalist for the question and sometime paise them for asking a good one, then they make use of their stock answers, explaining again the importance of conforming to the separation rules etc, using the figures to show the importance - all relevant to the question to some extent but remorselessly plugging the party line. This seems to me to be evidence of well rehearsed team tactics; they have been trained and practised. So have the doctors and scientists and even the police who have appeared. And of course the Opposition are trained and practised too. These days all politicians will have had training.And this time the Ministers doing the briefings are succeeding; they avoid alienating the journalists, even the challenging ones, leaving the audience to spot when a journalist is being stropy or unpleasant. They get the messages across extremely well.Ordinarily of course the soundbites they want to get in are political points against the other side but during this national emergency doing that would be conspicuously counter-productive, so they avoid it like the plague, Oppostion interviewees too. There is the occassional exception but mostly they realise that they must above all appear to be acting supportively in the national interest rather than as a sniping opponent.So far so good as far as handling the COVID-19 emergency is concerned, they are all handling things well. But I do have concerns that Sir Kier will be tempted to try to get noticed by forensically attacking Government Policy, if obnly he can get his hands on it - and I think that could break the mould in a dangerous way as far as handling COVID-19 is concerned. Just my view of things, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Jeremy Hunt, the backbencher loser to Boris in the Leadership Contest (but now Chairman of the HOC Committee on Health & Social Services) has been on the radio this lunchtime, saying the Government have been too slow with testing and should do much more. That seems to me to be like saying run faster to a man who is already running his fastest - not at all constructive. Maybe he's just wanting to be noticed. The current Health Secretary has already anounced a target of 100,000 tests per week by the end of this month (a ten fold increase on the figure at the end of last month) which sounds pretty good to me.We're getting a lot of these "experts" who aren't good enough to be chosen for the Governments First Eleven of advisers but think we need to listen to them. I'd prefer it if they kept quiet while the Government has good advisers and is doing its best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 I don't know, eh..? First the Opposition party want to question and challenge government on how things are going, then those pesky journalists have the cheek to quiz them...and now the Leader of HOC Committee on Health & Social Services chips in with an opinion...! What's wrong with these people?...don't they know their place? Keep tugging that forelock Stuart... :-D (a heads up- You are starting to sound like the flip side of John52's coin! ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Yes, I can see that - I suppose it's my military background (of long ago) wanting to get the job done without what I see as unhelpful interference. I don't really like politicians much at all but I did admire Jeremy Hunt and so I'm particularly disappointed by his interference now. (I never did like Sir Kier Startmer much though :-¦ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 pepe63 - 2020-04-17 2:12 PM I don't know, eh..? First the Opposition party want to question and challenge government on how things are going, then those pesky journalists have the cheek to quiz them...and now the Leader of HOC Committee on Health & Social Services chips in with an opinion...! What's wrong with these people?...don't they know their place? Keep tugging that forelock Stuart... :-D (a heads up- You are starting to sound like the flip side of John52's coin! ;-) ) Jeremy Hunt is the Chairman of the Health and Social Care Committee. The function of that committee is " to oversee the operations of the Dept. of Health ". So Stuart sees Jeremy Hunts committee doing its' job as " interfering " ! Let's all just pray that Stuart NEVER gets any political power. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-04-17 9:43 AM John52 - 2020-04-16 7:13 PM pelmetman - 2020-04-16 3:32 PM they were rubbish too in their preparations along with the rest of the EU countries :D ....... Not that our resident Remoaner Losers will accept that FACT >:-) ....... That may be so - but at least they were better than BoJo because they started the lockdown sooner, and got their supplies secured earlier, so have less damage, and are now in a position to start coming out of lockdown. So if they were rubbish what is BoJo *-) Hmmm better? ;-) .............. Europe: 925 536 cases; the five countries reporting most cases are Spain (177 633), Italy (165 155), Germany (130 450), France (106 206) and United Kingdom (98 476). UK has 103,093 confirmed cases as at 13.25 UTC 17 April https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/16/coronavirus-world-map-which-countries-have-the-most-cases-and-deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 When I've watched a few of the daily updates at 5pm- ish, the one chap that has impressed me the most (or should that be, disappointed and/or irrateted me the least?) is Rishi Sunak. He comes across as competent, and confident (without being a smarmy smartarse) and when questioned, is able to think on his feet, without having to resort to "filling-in" by just churning out the rehearsed "slogans"..(stay at home...save the NHS....yeah yeah we get it!)...and waffling on about how they are "..ramping up.." testing etc! I don't pretend to be able to vouch for his monetary policies but he does come over as quite genuine... Matt Hancock on the other hand always appears like a rabbit caught in headlights(and all to easily resorts to churning out the above mentioned slogans) and as for Priti Patel...she couldn't even read, or understand?, the figures on here own notes! On the whole I think the UK government have been far too slow to act and even when they have, it's still been a bit "woolly".. Yes, on the whole the people are doing as we are asked and staying put but as far as the likes of closing borders, testing, monitoring of arrivals, equipping the areas that need it, it has been woefully inadequate, especially as we like to think of ourselves as world leaders..5th largest economy etc etc.. At a time like this, I don't really care which "party" is in, I just want them to be competent and to keep us and our loved ones safe and if this is them "..doing their best..", with their- wait and see - approach, then it does not fill me with much confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 malc d - 2020-04-17 2:55 PM ....Let's all just pray that Stuart NEVER gets any political power. ;-)I understand your concerns. I wasn't think of exterminating Jeremy or Sir Kier, just reminding them that we're facing a National Emergency so pull together or keep your mouth shut. I might have sent Norman Tebbit round to have a chat, that sort of thing. Once upon a time I used to think there were times when the Country could do with a period with me as Lord Protector, aka Oliver Cromwell, but you'll be relieved to hear that when I passed the age of 60 I decided world would just have to do without me putting everything right for it because I decided that was a good time to leave all that sort of thing to the next generation. I wasn't going to chop our Monarch's head of course but I did otherwise admire Oliver's incorruptable style. I only wanted to do it for a few tears of course and the succession is a problem for dictatorships - but we''d still have our hereditary monarchy at the very top and now that Prince Harry has opted out altogether the succession of that is looking pretty good for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Well we've now had another high as the DoH confirm 847 deaths taking UK total to 14,576. :-( https://tinyurl.com/ybv3lo9q Our high percent average increase of daily infections over the past 10 days also doesn't bode well either so we are not out of the woods by a long way. https://tinyurl.com/ycrc2ljx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 pepe63 - 2020-04-17 3:23 PMWhen I've watched a few of the daily updates at 5pm- ish, the one chap that has impressed me the most (or should that be, disappointed and/or irrateted me the least?) is Rishi Sunak. ..... At a time like this, I don't really care which "party" is in, I just want them to be competent and to keep us and our loved ones safe and if this is them "..doing their best..", with their- wait and see - approach, then it does not fill me with much confidence.I agree about the new Chancellor, I think he's impressed a lot of people.It's easy, with hindsight, to suggest the Government should have moved more quickly and I think the FCO should have issued their "No non-essential travel anywhere" advice much earlier. But they may have had sensible reasons to delay. I can't really imagine anyone being able to take charge in UK and achieving really rapid results out of our public services, not even with the help of Dominic Cummins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 StuartO - 2020-04-17 3:54 PM pepe63 - 2020-04-17 3:23 PM When I've watched a few of the daily updates at 5pm- ish, the one chap that has impressed me the most (or should that be, disappointed and/or irrateted me the least?) is Rishi Sunak. ..... At a time like this, I don't really care which "party" is in, I just want them to be competent and to keep us and our loved ones safe and if this is them "..doing their best..", with their- wait and see - approach, then it does not fill me with much confidence.It's easy, with hindsight, to suggest the Government should have moved more quickly and I think the FCO should have issued their "No non-essential travel anywhere" advice much earlier. But they may have had sensible reasons to delay. But we did have hindsight Stuart. First of all other countries were ahead of us with the rate of infections and deaths so we had a benchmark there we didn't take advantage of. South Korea implemented widespread testing and tracing almost from the outset so as a result got their situation under containment very quickly and soon plateaued out. They also went into full on lockdown much earlier than us. Where was UK's testing and tracing? I cannot think of any reasons to delay which would make sense either. Remember, initially government talked about allowing Coronavirus to spiral out of control and create 'herd immunity', a pretty horrendous crazy idea. There's also the Pandemic Preparedness Strategy Policy government drew up in 2011 for flu, so i think excuses of 'hindsight' is somewhat weak which won't wash with people now. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213717/dh_131040.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-04-17 5:00 PM......But we did have hindsight Stuart. First of all other countries were ahead of us with the rate of infections and deaths so we had a benchmark there we didn't take advantage of. South Korea implemented widespread testing and tracing almost from the outset so as a result got their situation under containment very quickly and soon plateaued out. They also went into full on lockdown much earlier than us. Where was UK's testing and tracing? I cannot think of any reasons to delay which would make sense either. Remember, initially government talked about allowing Coronavirus to spiral out of control and create 'herd immunity', a pretty horrendous crazy idea.There's also the Pandemic Preparedness Strategy Policy government drew up in 2011 for flu, so i think excuses of 'hindsight' is somewhat weak which won't wash with people now. There were indeed some indications of the way things were going to go even before the end of January and clearly some of those were probably not acted upon promptly or radically enough. I agree. With hindsight we can see this, but at the time they weren't recognised for what we can see now. For example I think Public Health England will be seen to have been pretty useless to start with, their advice to hospitals was changing left right and centre - but they do now seem to be getting their act together and its important to concentrate on that while we're still trying to deal with the crisis. They got proper experts on it now and their approach makes sense. The pandemic will only be beaten when herd immunity in the population is achieved (either by vaccinating or when enough people have become immune so that the virus runs out of infectable people) so that still makes sense as the eventual objective. Until that can be achieved, which at the moment it can't, the objective is to save as many lives as possible by rushing to identify treatments and reducing the virus's opportunities to infect people, hence the lockdown and the need for social distancing and self-isolation and shielding.The British public service is a plodding, inefficient lorry rather than a nippy racing car, and that will have been a big factor in many of the apparent "mistakes" which will have been made, especially the ones involving not acting quickly enough. Some of the people involved in doing things will have turned out to be useless and needed spotting and replacing etc etc. The politicians might well have made some mistakes themselves too. And some of the NHS staff will have skived off or not performed well too; they are not all angels or super-heroes, although fortunately most of them seem to be rising to the challenge wonderfully.The Government is the only one we've got and they are certanly getting some of it right so we need to concentrate on supporting them rather than trying to undermine them by picking holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-04-17 9:43 AM John52 - 2020-04-16 7:13 PM pelmetman - 2020-04-16 3:32 PM they were rubbish too in their preparations along with the rest of the EU countries :D ....... Not that our resident Remoaner Losers will accept that FACT >:-) ....... That may be so - but at least they were better than BoJo because they started the lockdown sooner, and got their supplies secured earlier, so have less damage, and are now in a position to start coming out of lockdown. So if they were rubbish what is BoJo *-) Hmmm better? ;-) .............. Europe: 925 536 cases; the five countries reporting most cases are Spain (177 633), Italy (165 155), Germany (130 450), France (106 206) and United Kingdom (98 476). Not sure how you crept back into the Forum, Pelmetman, probably the same way you crept back to UK when the going got tough in Spain. Your figures above are meaningless, as you doubtless know. Our hapless government has been remiss with testing, therefore reported number of cases will be low as they are not being found. It's death rates that are the true indicator, and UK is already the worst, allowing for us being a few weeks behind other countries, and getting worse. https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1266250/uk-coronavirus-death-toll-study-latest-europe-italy-spain-deaths-covid-19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 StuartO - 2020-04-17 5:34 PM There were indeed some indications of the way things were going to go even before the end of January and clearly some of those were probably not acted upon promptly or radically enough. I agree. With hindsight we can see this, Stuart you have just had it pointed to you how much was visible back in January,which you seem to have accepted in your first sentence. But by the 3rd sentence you seem to have forgotten it again and go back to saying 'with hindsight' Either you have the attention span of a knat, or you just can't bring yourself to criticise the clown in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 John52 - 2020-04-17 11:28 PM Stuart you have just had it pointed to you how much was visible back in January,which you seem to have accepted in your first sentence. But by the 3rd sentence you seem to have forgotten it again and go back to saying 'with hindsight'Either you have the attention span of a knat, or you just can't bring yourself to criticise the clown in charge. There is no need to be offensive John52.I suggest that you are struggling to understand the difference between what was visible but not easily recognisable at the time, including by yourself at that time, and what can be more easily seen in retrospect now, i.e. with the benefit of hindsight. Just because you now have the benefit of hindsight doesn't mean that others should have recognised it in January, when you didn't either. If you think I'm wrong, post a link to a post of yours dated in January when you were telling us all about it. I realise that you've always thought Boris was a liability but you saying that in January wouldn't quite serve for this purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 StuartO - 2020-04-18 8:05 AMJohn52 - 2020-04-17 11:28 PM Stuart you have just had it pointed to you how much was visible back in January,which you seem to have accepted in your first sentence. But by the 3rd sentence you seem to have forgotten it again and go back to saying 'with hindsight'Either you have the attention span of a knat, or you just can't bring yourself to criticise the clown in charge. There is no need to be offensive John52.I suggest that you are struggling to understand the difference between what was visible but not easily recognisable at the time, including by yourself at that time, and what can be more easily seen in retrospect now, i.e. with the benefit of hindsight. Just because you now have the benefit of hindsight doesn't mean that others should have recognised it in January, when you didn't either. If you think I'm wrong, post a link to a post of yours dated in January when you were telling us all about it. I realise that you've always thought Boris was a liability but you saying that in January wouldn't quite serve for this purpose.Other countries locked down long before us.And snapped up the supplies of PPE and ventilators before us.That could be seen an the time - we did not have to wait till now to see it.And why won't BoJo tell us his plans?All I have seen so far id based on testing - for which he has been scammed into paying for over 3 million testing kits that don't work: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52335210 and his pooper scoopers have tried in vain to get us a refund onOther countries bought up their supplies whilst BoJo was asleep at the wheel, so now we are scratting around for what they have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 StuartO - 2020-04-18 8:05 AMJohn52 - 2020-04-17 11:28 PM Stuart you have just had it pointed to you how much was visible back in January,which you seem to have accepted in your first sentence. But by the 3rd sentence you seem to have forgotten it again and go back to saying 'with hindsight'Either you have the attention span of a knat, or you just can't bring yourself to criticise the clown in charge. There is no need to be offensive John52.I suggest that you are struggling to understand the difference between what was visible but not easily recognisable at the time, including by yourself at that time, and what can be more easily seen in retrospect now, i.e. with the benefit of hindsight. Just because you now have the benefit of hindsight doesn't mean that others should have recognised it in January, when you didn't either. If you think I'm wrong, post a link to a post of yours dated in January when you were telling us all about it. I realise that you've always thought Boris was a liability but you saying that in January wouldn't quite serve for this purpose.Well my social media feed was alive with people saying stuff like WTF is Johnson doing? Remember not that long ago he was boasting on national television about going round a hospital where people had Coronavirus shaking hands? Lets face it, they wasted about seven weeks and now we are paying the price, its as simple as that. Im pretty sure it was all deliberate though. I think they still want everyone to get it and are prepared to sacrifice the old and the weak to a much higher extent than most other countries. Dont get me wrong, this might actually be a good policy (not that they would admit its policy) but its pretty brutal.I read last night (and saw a Police directive) that right in the peak of all this the police are being advised to allow people to drive to places for exercise now. The locals here in the tourist hot spots are outraged. They spent weeks protecting each other, staying safe and following the rules and now it seems they could be inundated with townies descending upon them for a day out. Its a light touch policy wrapped up as a pretend lock down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 We are all going to get it. They are aiming for a million virus immunity jabs for September. So that leaves 50 + million without it. This will go on for another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-04-18 8:20 A and are prepared to sacrifice the old and the weak to a much higher extent than most other countries. Dont get me wrong, this might actually be a good policy (not that they would admit its policy) but its pretty brutal. . I think they chickened out when they realised how many votes it might cost them. But it might well have worked out better than the worst of both worlds situation we have now. Lets face it, the economy is more important than the nhs, because with no economy there will be no nhs - and no food in the shops :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-04-18 8:20 AM I read last night (and saw a Police directive) that right in the peak of all this the police are being advised to allow people to drive to places for exercise now.. Well that was never illegal, more chaos was caused by politicians suggesting it was. I can understand people cooped up in sho-boxsized flats with no outside, only crowded streets to exercise in - maybe the only way they can exercise safely is to get in their car and drive to somewhere less crowded. But at least the divide and rule created saves the Government from scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 John52 - 2020-04-18 8:48 AM Barryd999 - 2020-04-18 8:20 AM I read last night (and saw a Police directive) that right in the peak of all this the police are being advised to allow people to drive to places for exercise now.. Well that was never illegal, more chaos was caused by politicians suggesting it was. I can understand people cooped up in sho-boxsized flats with no outside, only crowded streets to exercise in - maybe the only way they can exercise safely is to get in their car and drive to somewhere less crowded. But at least the divide and rule created saves the Government from scrutiny. "crowded streets" ??? ... Where ??? ... Apologies , I see what ya mean ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Conrad - 2020-04-17 8:58 PM pelmetman - 2020-04-17 9:43 AM John52 - 2020-04-16 7:13 PM pelmetman - 2020-04-16 3:32 PM they were rubbish too in their preparations along with the rest of the EU countries :D ....... Not that our resident Remoaner Losers will accept that FACT >:-) ....... That may be so - but at least they were better than BoJo because they started the lockdown sooner, and got their supplies secured earlier, so have less damage, and are now in a position to start coming out of lockdown. So if they were rubbish what is BoJo *-) Hmmm better? ;-) .............. Europe: 925 536 cases; the five countries reporting most cases are Spain (177 633), Italy (165 155), Germany (130 450), France (106 206) and United Kingdom (98 476). Not sure how you crept back into the Forum, Pelmetman, probably the same way you crept back to UK when the going got tough in Spain. Your figures above are meaningless, as you doubtless know. Our hapless government has been remiss with testing, therefore reported number of cases will be low as they are not being found. It's death rates that are the true indicator, and UK is already the worst, allowing for us being a few weeks behind other countries, and getting worse. https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1266250/uk-coronavirus-death-toll-study-latest-europe-italy-spain-deaths-covid-19 You mean those figures that p*ss all over your lefty diatribe? (lol) ......... BTW the going didn't get tough in Spain ;-) ............ Their Socialist government decided to tell ALL Johnny foriegners to clear off :D ......... No doubt they'll welcome me and my wallet back with open arms once the pandemic is over B-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.