costaexpress Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Wasn't sure whether to bother having the motorhome serviced as its just one year old and of course only been used for 9 months, however, thought an oil and filter change wouldn't do any harm at 11k miles even if way under the 18k recommendation. On a whim I also said change the air filter while your at it as I was up a few dusty forest tracks last year. Pleased I did as they found evidence of mice nesting in the air box. Googled it and apparently very common so may be worth a quick check before you resume your travels. Not sure how much of a problem, if any, it can cause by going undetected, just thought I would mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 You need to read my thread about it. It's a very common problem and I have fitted a stainless mesh over the inlet on cross member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Previous relevant forum comments here https://tinyurl.com/ybpn7qfl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 colin - 2020-06-04 9:51 AM You need to read my thread about it. It's a very common problem and I have fitted a stainless mesh over the inlet on cross member. Which thread would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 This just out of interest. Although we often see reports of mice damage to vehicles here in the UK I hadn't realised that they have a much bigger problem in Germany with martens. The 2014 insurance bill for repairing marten damage (Marderschaden) to all types of vehicles was 64 million Euros. They crawl all around the engine bay and chew anything that they fancy, just for fun it seems. Insulation, wiring, connectors, pneumatic and coolant hoses, steering rack gaiters and driveshaft CV joint gaiters are examples. Over on the wohnmobile.de forum motorhome owners have been known to fashion wire mesh undertrays and all sorts of other protection. Acoustic devices such as these are a common fit: https://www.reichelt.de/marderscheuche-fuer-kfz-m-186-p118596.html?&trstct=pos_0&nbc=1 Here's a video made by Audi, capturing the beasts at their destructive work: https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/audimediatv/video/tracking-the-marten-2226 Keep 'em peeled if heading over there once we're freed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costaexpress Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 colin - 2020-06-04 9:51 AM You need to read my thread about it. It's a very common problem and I have fitted a stainless mesh over the inlet on cross member. Thank you, can now see it has been well covered, apologies for duplicate posting will check a bit more thoroughly going forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 As I had a cat sleeping under the bonnet but on the engine cover wouldn’t have thought I have a mouse problem in mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-04 9:57 AM colin - 2020-06-04 9:51 AM You need to read my thread about it. It's a very common problem and I have fitted a stainless mesh over the inlet on cross member. Which thread would that be? That would be this one. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/x2-50-2-3-2000miles-with-a-duff-EGR-valve/31638/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 costaexpress - 2020-06-04 12:55 PM colin - 2020-06-04 9:51 AM You need to read my thread about it. It's a very common problem and I have fitted a stainless mesh over the inlet on cross member. Thank you, can now see it has been well covered, apologies for duplicate posting will check a bit more thoroughly going forward It does need repeating sometimes to warn newbies who wouldn't have seen earlier threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 This 2017 forum thread discussed fittng to a 2016 Peugeot Boxer-based motorhome an air-filter housing after the original housing had been mouse-damaged. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Air-filter-housing-damaged/48318/ The motor of Boxer/Ducato/Relay X290 models (built from mid-2014 onwards) initially takes in air through two openings (arrowed in attached photo below) in the cross-member at the top of the engine compartment’s front. This air is then sucked towards the motor through a central aperture (with plastic connector) at the centre-rear of the cross-member. As my Ducato stands idle and unstarted for months outside my house during the winter, I looked at preventing mice from getting into the air-filter housing by fitting some sort of metal mesh. I was wary of covering the central aperture as I thought this might inhibit the air flow sufficiently to affect power output and I wasn’t sure whether there were more than two openings in the cross-member. Finally I decided to put several stainless steel pot scourers into a plastic bag and stuff the bag into the central aperture. That was during the winter of 2018/2019 but, for the winter of 2019/2020, I didn’t bother to block the air intake (as I couldn’t find the pot scourers!) and the mice didn’t get in (I confirmed this in March as it only takes a few minutes for me to remove the air-filter housing’s top as I’ve replaced the corrosion-prone original fixing screws with staiinless hex-headed equivalents.) https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Air-filter/48291/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I fitted a single sheet of stainless steel rodent mesh between the crossmember and the intake pipe where it attaches to the rear of the crossmember centrally - behind the bonnet catch in Derek's photo. Because the aperture in the crossmember is lipped, I made up a spacer from a piece of fairly thick rubber sheet to allow the mesh to sit between the spacer and the pipe flange, avoiding having to shape it around the lip on the crossmember. I think I had to replace the two screws that secure the pipe to the crossmember with slightly longer ones as a result, although I can't remember now. It's also worth noting that the MANN air filter element for the Ducato incorporates an internal metal shield, unlike the flimsy plastic grid in the Fiat OEM version, which whilst not stopping rodents or similar from entering the filter housing and chewing through the paper element, will stop them and any large detached pieces of chewed filter from travelling further down the intake towards the turbo and engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Deneb - 2020-06-05 9:29 AM It's also worth noting that the MANN air filter element for the Ducato incorporates an internal metal shield, unlike the flimsy plastic grid in the Fiat OEM version, which whilst not stopping rodents or similar from entering the filter housing and chewing through the paper element, will stop them and any large detached pieces of chewed filter from travelling further down the intake towards the turbo and engine. Ditto Borg & Beck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Some while ago I fitted a K&N filter https://www.knfilters.co.uk/blog/kn-releases-new-air-filter-for-2006-to-2009-fiat-ducato/ As the advert says, the filtration material is held between two aluminium meshes that should present a challenge to toothy mice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-05 8:03 AM I was wary of covering the central aperture as I thought this might inhibit the air flow sufficiently to affect power output and I wasn’t sure whether there were more than two openings in the cross-member. Deneb - 2020-06-05 9:29 AM I fitted a single sheet of stainless steel rodent mesh between the crossmember and the intake pipe where it attaches to the rear of the crossmember centrally - behind the bonnet catch in Derek's photo. Because the aperture in the crossmember is lipped, I made up a spacer from a piece of fairly thick rubber sheet to allow the mesh to sit between the spacer and the pipe flange, avoiding having to shape it around the lip on the crossmember. I think I had to replace the two screws that secure the pipe to the crossmember with slightly longer ones as a result, although I can't remember now. My x250 is slightly different to Derek's photo, but the air intake is on rear of cross member and I guess pretty much the same. The cross member has numerous holes that a determined mouse could get though, there is what's known as the 'pencil test', if you can push a pencil through the hole a mouse can get through, so the hole that plastic pipe attaches to is the only practical one to 'block'. I choose a stainless mesh that passes the 'pencil test' and gave the best airflow (IIRC 1/4" wire spacing), I then made up a sandwich of two layers of SRBF with the mesh between, the oval hole in the SRBF was made as big as possible to allow the plastic pipe to be flat on it, this is bigger than the hole in the cross member, as the SRBF allowed the mesh to stand off both the cross member and plastic pipe air can freely flow through this extra area, and by calculation the air flow through the bigger area of mesh was no less than that of the hole in the cross member, also remember the same hole flows enough air for the 3.0L engine. My only concern was that leaves or other debris might easily block the mesh, but this hasn't been a problem in the 6 years it's been fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 colin - 2020-06-05 11:32 AM I choose a stainless mesh that passes the 'pencil test' and gave the best airflow (IIRC 1/4" wire spacing). It seems to be generally recommended that mesh to prevent rodent access should be 6mm x 6mm or less hole size (so 1/4" as you say) and made from at least 0.7mm cross section wire if stainless steel or at least 1.7mm wire if plain steel, to prevent the strands being gnawed through. The thinner gauge wire used to make suitable stainless steel mesh should allow great airflow for any given area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 colin - 2020-06-05 11:32 AM Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-05 8:03 AM I was wary of covering the central aperture as I thought this might inhibit the air flow sufficiently to affect power output and I wasn’t sure whether there were more than two openings in the cross-member. Deneb - 2020-06-05 9:29 AM I fitted a single sheet of stainless steel rodent mesh between the crossmember and the intake pipe where it attaches to the rear of the crossmember centrally - behind the bonnet catch in Derek's photo. Because the aperture in the crossmember is lipped, I made up a spacer from a piece of fairly thick rubber sheet to allow the mesh to sit between the spacer and the pipe flange, avoiding having to shape it around the lip on the crossmember. I think I had to replace the two screws that secure the pipe to the crossmember with slightly longer ones as a result, although I can't remember now. The cross member has numerous holes that a determined mouse could get though, there is what's known as the 'pencil test', if you can push a pencil through the hole a mouse can get through, so the hole that plastic pipe attaches to is the only practical one to 'block'. I choose a stainless mesh that passes the 'pencil test' and gave the best airflow (IIRC 1/4" wire spacing), In fact the pencil test relates to a "gap" not a hole. IE a gap under a door or a gap under a tile etc etc. The mouse has the ability to"flatten" it's skull a little - so that if it can gets it's head through a 1/4" GAP, then the rest of the body can squeeze through. (For example mice CANNOT enter a building through a common square hole airbrick) So a 1/4" mesh is more than ample to stop mice getting through. It's the type of mesh used in bird feeders. For rats, think 3/4" mesh. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 And do not forget these very low hanging intercooler pipes on fiat. My intercooler sits on the top of the engine. And check their Wrapping if loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveT Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 First a big thank you to those who posted about how to fix this - which I found immensely helpful. I recently had the problem, and it cost me over £300 as the airflow meter had to be replaced. Anyway, a couple of pictures that might help if I've figured out how to post them correctly. I chose to fit the mesh over the raised sections of the flange, rather than use a thick rubber gasket and longer screws. Hope all's clear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teccer1234 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 aparrently mice can climb through a hole as small as a biro pen, so have to use a very fine mesh to keep them out, I had a mouse in my old van and after a few weeks still there, got rid of it when I heard it in my dashboard air system, I fired a halogen fire extinguisher into the vent, solved!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveT Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Well the mesh I fitted is 7mm and a biro won't fit through. But fine mesh can restrict the airflow too much and is also made of thinner wire - so maybe a mouse could gnaw through it. This stuff - from Inoxia on ebay (as recommended by someone in here) - is very tough. I had to buy a new pair of cutters! Cool tip about the halogen. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 The fire-extinguisher type is likely to have been "halon" rather than "halogen" and no longer allowable for general use. http://www.fireextinguisherguide.co.uk/types-of-fire-extinguishers/halon-fire-extinguishers/ I decided to fit an anti-mouse mesh to my Ducato's air intake using a spacer to accommodate the 'lip' on the cross-member where the intake attaches. The visual result of my efforts offended me so much that I dropped the idea. As has been said above, the wire used for this mesh is HARD and - as the mesh is not welded at every node-point - cutting tidy curved shapes may not be practicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 SteveT - 2020-12-03 10:38 AM Well the mesh I fitted is 7mm and a biro won't fit through. But fine mesh can restrict the airflow too much and is also made of thinner wire - so maybe a mouse could gnaw through it. This stuff - from Inoxia on ebay (as recommended by someone in here) - is very tough. I had to buy a new pair of cutters! Cool tip about the halogen. B-) As I said in my post above: It seems to be generally recommended that mesh to prevent rodent access should be 6mm x 6mm or less hole size (so 1/4" as you say) and made from at least 0.7mm cross section wire if stainless steel or at least 1.7mm wire if plain steel, to prevent the strands being gnawed through. The thinner gauge wire used to make suitable stainless steel mesh should allow great airflow for any given area. Derek Uzzell - 2020-12-03 11:09 AM I decided to fit an anti-mouse mesh to my Ducato's air intake using a spacer to accommodate the 'lip' on the cross-member where the intake attaches. The visual result of my efforts offended me so much that I dropped the idea. As has been said above, the wire used for this mesh is HARD and - as the mesh is not welded at every node-point - cutting tidy curved shapes may not be practicable. I'm not popping out to take a photo, as it's cold and wet, but the stainless steel (and sold specifically as) rodent mesh that I used was welded at every node, and very hard to cut. Nevertheless I managed to cut it to the profile of the flange on the air intake tube and sandwiched it between sheets of rubber also cut to the same profile to form a spacer to accommodate the lip around the hole in the crossmember that the flange normally sits over. I did rather blunt a pair of cutters in the process though! Apart from the flange of the plastic intake pipe now sitting slightly further away from the crossmember than standard (with the gap taken up by the layered rubber spacer) you wouldn't know it was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 An August 2020 discussion about this is here https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Mann-Fiat-ducato-Air-filter/55943/ I notice that I mentioned the inoxia.co.uk website as a possible source of mesh https://www.inoxia.co.uk/products/mesh/sheets?role=menuitem&tabindex=-1 and I’m pretty sure that’s where I obtained a smallish piece from. Most of the stainless-steel mesh being advertised as “rodent mesh” seems to be the woven variety rather than the welded type and, if an attempt is made to cut the woven material into a complex shape, the structure will be compromised. I used a rubber/cork composite material (that I happened to have kicking around) to ‘sandwich' the mesh (much as Deneb did with rubber sheet). This did allow for the flange - and the spacer + mesh fitted OK between the air-intake pipe and the cross-member. However, (rather like Victor Frankenstein) I loathed what I had created and took it off. I might have another go sometime if can get hold of some suitably thick rubber sheet and welded mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teccer1234 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-12-03 11:09 AM The fire-extinguisher type is likely to have been "halon" rather than "halogen" and no longer allowable for general use. http://www.fireextinguisherguide.co.uk/types-of-fire-extinguishers/halon-fire-extinguishers/ thanks Derek, I did know they were banned but as I still had one in my van I decided to put it to good use for the last time, got fed up with hearing the mouse running about at night when we were in bed ;-0, and yes it was halon, was a long time ago so forgot what it was called Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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