watty55 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Hello, Just broke down a few hours ago due to a fuel leakage, fortunately, the AA sorted the problem which was a cracked thread and washer on the water sensor that fits under the fuel filter. I suspect the cause of this was due to over-tightening of the plastic sensor to the new fuel filter that was fitted on a major service only 20 miles traveled prior to the breakdown. The AA did a temporary repair by fitting a bolt to replace the sensor and the MH is now running again. However, a fault light has now appeared on the dash, it's the amber injection/EOBD system failure and urea injection system failure light, these faults haven't actually occurred so I'm assuming that because the water sensor is missing, the engine management system is causing the light to come on. Normally, I would take the vehicle back to the Fiat garage the next working day but supposed to be starting a week's holiday up north tomorrow. Any thoughts or recommendations please. Regards Watty55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Well seen as you can't call the garage until Monday I would call the AA back and ask for their advice. It seems their 'fix' has caused the problem so they may come out to you again and improve the 'fix'. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 If the damaged sensor has been retained, is it possible to connect it to the wiring on a temporary basis, and see if this removes the fault indication? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watty55 Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 The "fix" can't be improved because the sensor body made of plastic has cracked, hence the leak. The AA has just replaced it with a 10mm metal bolt to make the seal, so I'm guessing that because there is no sensor there for the engine management system to read or recognise it, that's maybe why the amber light appears. After the repair, I drove the 15 miles home and there appears to be no leaks and apart from the dash light, everything seems to be okay. Regards Watty55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Alanb - 2020-07-18 6:43 PM If the damaged sensor has been retained, is it possible to connect it to the wiring on a temporary basis, and see if this removes the fault indication? Alan Sounds like a reasonable suggestion to plug the sensor in even if its just left dangling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watty55 Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 I did as you suggested by plugging in the broken sensor, but still the same fault showing on the dash. Definitely a visit to the Fiat dealer early tomorrow morning, they will need to sort it all out. Thanks for your help guys. Regards Watty55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 My recent experience of having multiple warning lights appear on the instrument cluster (My own fault - Don’t ask!) is that some lights may auto-extinguish themselves when the vehicle is driven and the vehicle’s computer ‘recognises’ that the relevant fault is no longer present, but the generic amber warning light will need to be extinguished by using a suitable diagnostic tool. So, even if the filter’s water sensor were replaced by a new one, there’s a fair chance the amber warning light would continue to illuminate until deliberately ‘cleared’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Are we talking about the generic failure warning light (amber, exclamation mark within a triangle), bottom left on the instrument panel surround? Ours started coming on after the van was serviced December last. No other lights warning lights on. Once illuminated, it remains lit over at least 30 miles, and even if the ignition or engine is turned off for a few minutes it comes on again when re-started. Van drives absolutely normally at all times. No other dashboard messages. However, if the van is re-started after it has stood for an hour or so, it does not illuminate again and the van can be driven for a substantial distance without it re-illuminating. Then, if I "take the van for a walk" after a few weeks the same routine repeats. I was told that there is unlikely to be any fault code retained in memory once the engine is turned off, so I need to get the van to the garage with the light on, so that they can read the codes with the engine running. For this I need to ring first. Busy garage!! :-) Any suggestions? Apparently it signals failure of one of two possible sensors: engine oil pressure, or diesel fuel filter. I suspect that wiring to the diesel fuel filter sensor might have been loosened during the service (filter changed), but I'm unsure where the sensor is, or where the oil pressure sensor is, so can't do the simple checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-07-19 7:05 PM I was told that there is unlikely to be any fault code retained in memory once the engine is turned off, so I need to get the van to the garage with the light on, so that they can read the codes with the engine running. For this I need to ring first. Busy garage!! :-) Any suggestions? Brian, Sounds like you need to get your own code reader! A basic OBD reader MAY retrieve the codes causing your light to be on but a more advanced reader where you have to select the make and model will definitely. You could possibly start with an ELM327 Bluetooth dongle and something like the Torque app on a phone or the slightly more expensive Autel AP200 BT dongle and dedicated app. https://www.auteltech.com/c/www/mk1/3262.jhtml Applicability list is here... (select MaxiAP200 then relevant vehicle and leave Function blank) https://autel.com/vehicle-coverage/coverage2 The alternative would be a dedicated handheld code reader, I have an Autel MD802 All Systems and have read codes on many vehicles with it but never a Ducato. I believe it has now been replaced by the Autel MD808 PRO which costs just under £200 last I looked. https://www.auteltech.com/c/www/mk2/3218.jhtml Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Brian, My 2.8JTD has a UFI fuel filter, which I have recently serviced. The water in fuel sensor is fitted to the bottom of the filter housing. For reading codes, "Multiecuscan" which is software to run on a laptop, is popular on the Fiat Forum. I quote "you need somthing that is fluent in Fiat". You will also need an adaptor or a selection, for connection to the OBD port. I have been considering this path, but I have yet to make the purchase. Total outlay should be less than £100. I think that Multiecuscan can also be used on a smartphone, but being an ancient, I do not have one of those new fangled contraptions. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 If purchasing a code reader speak to these people very helpful on phone https://www.gendan.co.uk/mes_chooser.php#selection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-07-19 7:05 PM Are we talking about the generic failure warning light (amber, exclamation mark within a triangle), bottom left on the instrument panel surround?... My Ducato Owner Handbook lists 9 possibilities for that warning light to illuminate, including “Diesel filter sensor failure”. However, the warning light showing on Watty55’s dashboard is the amber injection/EOBD system failure warning as described on the file attached below. As Watty55 lives in Gloucester, I assume he will be visiting Motus Commercials that has a Fiat Professional agency and should be able to sort the fault out easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Thanks chaps, and apologies to watty55 for "gatecrashing" his string. I think I'll leave OBD readers aside, as I suspect the issue is probably fairly simple to resolve once the code has been extracted and the cost of an hours garage time won't be that far away from the cost of a reader. I'd also need to learn to read the reader, and would still have to know physically where the fault lay or, if due to a faulty part, buy it, or pay someone else to replace it if access requires a vehicle lift. Yes Derek, it does cover a string of possible faults (about which it gives, in most cases, no further information), but a number relate to options that are not present on our van, so I merely listed those I thought the most likely culprits, that I might be able to inspect - if I knew their whereabouts. As I understand the handbook, if the problem is water in the diesel filter I believe that a second warning light should also illuminate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 I invested a couple of years back in MultiECUscan software, and the two adapters that allow interrogation and configuration of all of the latest (Canbus-based) Ducato's control units. https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FESCAN.html (Other bundles and sellers are available). I already had a small laptop that invariably travels in the 'van, so under £100 gives me comprehensive diagnostic and configuration capability (near Fiat dealer level). As a one-off purchase, yes it may approach the cost of diagnostic/resetting at a dealer; the first time; subsequent uses simply add more value. It is invaluable for peace of mind if you get warnings on your travels (with big feet I find it easy to hit both the brake and accelerator together, which throws a transient error), and I've cleared a few minor glitches across two 'vans. It will also report on the status of non-warning parameters, such as DPF, etc. and test various circuits and control functions. It was bought mainly to support configuration of the service parameters, and the resetting of both service intervals, allowing for servicing the vehicle myself (though the ability to reset would also allow servicing by any small garage that didn't have the appropriate diagnostic software - AIUI, not much of the generic kit can reset bot service intervals). The savings against main-dealer servicing when out of warranty are significant. Being specifically built for Fiat group vehicles, the interface is relatively simple and informative. I can see why some might choose to avoid such use, but it really is incredibly useful if you master it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Good scanner is invaluable , Back to the fault . Have the damaged fuel filter body replaced and codes reset and away you go, Brian have a look at the connection to the sensor and make and brake same , you may actually find it is not fully connected . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 I use MES at home with the CanTieCar multiplex interface, but when travelling in the van I just carry a bluetooth OBD dongle and AlfaOBD on my phone. AlfaOBD can do pretty much everything that MES can, and in some instances more. It has better coverage for the VP2 radio units for instance, and can reprogram the body computer to enable options which MES doesn't cover at all. It also covers the other (Peugeot and Citroen) Sevel variants, which MES doesn't. The only downsides are that running on a phone, the interface is much smaller, although you could overcome that by installing it on an android netbook, and some of the reprogramming capabilities could potentially get you in trouble if you're not sure what you are doing. There is a windows version also, but you'd be back to carrying a laptop with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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