StuartO Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Given that both we and the EU are struggling with coronavirus and that there is no agreement for a non-turbulent end to the Transition Period, would it make sense to extend transition terms (i.e. preseve the status quo) for a period long enough for both sides to have got the virus under proper control? I was thinking of another twelve months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Nope :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 It would have made sense back in July Stuart when we had that option and knew just how bad Covid was going to be come the winter but we are truly through the looking glass now. Yes it would still make sense but since when was making sense something that this government or Brexiteers subscribed to. Its them that will suffer the most so lets rip that plaster right off and get it over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-12-20 9:48 AM It would have made sense back in July Stuart when we had that option and knew just how bad Covid was going to be come the winter but we are truly through the looking glass now. Yes it would still make sense but since when was making sense something that this government or Brexiteers subscribed to. Its them that will suffer the most so lets rip that plaster right off and get it over with. Sadly it's against EU law (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Oooh the delicious irony >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 It depends https://ukandeu.ac.uk/can-the-brexit-transition-period-still-be-extended/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 CurtainRaiser - 2020-12-20 10:07 AM It depends https://ukandeu.ac.uk/can-the-brexit-transition-period-still-be-extended/ You Losers have just 11 days to save your world (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Chop chop :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Growing fear ? At least for those with a few neurons left. It depended on me I would say: for too long you have been a pain in the ass for all of Europe. No gentlemen, too late, even if you wish you cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 mtravel - 2020-12-20 10:44 AM It depended on me I would say: for too long you have been a pain in the ass for all of Europe. No gentlemen, too late, even if you wish you cannot. Its been a pleasure :D ........ No dont thank me (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 I already had some doubt about the number of neutrons in some brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-12-20 9:53 AM Barryd999 - 2020-12-20 9:48 AM It would have made sense back in July Stuart when we had that option and knew just how bad Covid was going to be come the winter but we are truly through the looking glass now. Yes it would still make sense but since when was making sense something that this government or Brexiteers subscribed to. Its them that will suffer the most so lets rip that plaster right off and get it over with. Sadly it's against EU law (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Oooh the delicious irony >:-) ........ Treaties are merely glorified contracts between consenting legal entities. If both parties are in agreement, the terms can be varied at any time that the treaty is in force, including changing the contractual end-date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-12-20 12:11 PM pelmetman - 2020-12-20 9:53 AM Barryd999 - 2020-12-20 9:48 AM It would have made sense back in July Stuart when we had that option and knew just how bad Covid was going to be come the winter but we are truly through the looking glass now. Yes it would still make sense but since when was making sense something that this government or Brexiteers subscribed to. Its them that will suffer the most so lets rip that plaster right off and get it over with. Sadly it's against EU law (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Oooh the delicious irony >:-) ........ Treaties are merely glorified contracts between consenting legal entities. If both parties are in agreement, the terms can be varied at any time that the treaty is in force, including changing the contractual end-date. And presumably UK Government and the EU can agree to do something mutually beneficial anytime they like, even if it is something that might be otherwise have been somehow illegal. I was just wondering whether there would still be enough willingness on the EU side (because of the impending fishing rights losses for example and the gain in revenue from the UK) by extending rather than going off a cliff on January 1st. Anyway I hope Boris knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-12-20 9:48 AM It would have made sense back in July Stuart when we had that option and knew just how bad Covid was going to be come the winter but we are truly through the looking glass now. Yes it would still make sense but since when was making sense something that this government or Brexiteers subscribed to. Its them that will suffer the most so lets rip that plaster right off and get it over with. I'm inclined, much against my instincts, to agree. Let's go for the cold shower, leave with no agreement, and then see how long it takes before the penny drops and we begin to negotiate as a third country, instead of as a partial ex-member. It will take quite a time (five years?), and there will be considerable early backlash and recrimination both sides of the Channel, but a number of hard lessons will be learned on all sides. My expectations are that we'd end up negotiating as virtual supplicants, from a far weaker economic position than at present, but who knows? Maybe we'd end up negotiating to re-join instead, with no rebate on our budget contribution (as, based on our then economic strength, we wouldn't warrant one), but would have to accept Schengen, Economic and Monetary Union, the Area of Freedom, Security and Justice, and the Euro (which would by then, I think, prove a relief). At any rate, we should by then have seen how many of the Brexiter Jingoist's jam-tomorrow predictions had proved right, and we might even have learned to live without Jingoism, which would be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 StuartO - 2020-12-20 12:26 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-12-20 12:11 PM ............................................. Treaties are merely glorified contracts between consenting legal entities. If both parties are in agreement, the terms can be varied at any time that the treaty is in force, including changing the contractual end-date. And presumably UK Government and the EU can agree to do something mutually beneficial anytime they like, even if it is something that might be otherwise have been somehow illegal. I was just wondering whether there would still be enough willingness on the EU side (because of the impending fishing rights losses for example and the gain in revenue from the UK) by extending rather than going off a cliff on January 1st. Anyway I hope Boris knows what he's doing. I don't see how the bold above might arise. Breaking the terms unilaterally would be illegal in international law (just as it is in the case of a breach of a civil contract in national law). If both sides agree (providing in so doing no other international undertakings are breached) they can do pretty much whatever they choose. All they need do is jointly agree to vary the terms of the original agreement, and then sign on the dotted line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 StuartO - 2020-12-20 12:26 PM Anyway I hope Boris knows what he's doing. I think he does He knows the EU can't give us a better deal than its Members - they have said so often enough. He knows that he will own the bum deal we would get So he is going for no deal and blaming the EU Trying to rake up more jingoistic wartime nationalism, with his newspapers saying Merkel wants to make us crawl over glass for a deal etc The majority of voters won't fall for it but he doesn't need a majority He got an 80 seat majority with a minority of votes :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-12-20 12:53 PM StuartO - 2020-12-20 12:26 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-12-20 12:11 PM ............................................. Treaties are merely glorified contracts between consenting legal entities. If both parties are in agreement, the terms can be varied at any time that the treaty is in force, including changing the contractual end-date. And presumably UK Government and the EU can agree to do something mutually beneficial anytime they like, even if it is something that might be otherwise have been somehow illegal. I was just wondering whether there would still be enough willingness on the EU side (because of the impending fishing rights losses for example and the gain in revenue from the UK) by extending rather than going off a cliff on January 1st. Anyway I hope Boris knows what he's doing. I don't see how the bold above might arise. Breaking the terms unilaterally would be illegal in international law (just as it is in the case of a breach of a civil contract in national law). If both sides agree (providing in so doing no other international undertakings are breached) they can do pretty much whatever they choose. All they need do is jointly agree to vary the terms of the original agreement, and then sign on the dotted line. If I understand you correctly you are agreeing with me. Sovereign governments can make agreements about anything, overriding any pre-existing laws of their own or previous agreements between them, as long as they don't agree to conflict with fundamental international obligations, for example as they would if they decided to re-introduce slavery. If you agree with me why can't you just say so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 mtravel - 2020-12-20 11:07 AM I already had some doubt about the number of neutrons in some brain. So says mthead :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-12-20 12:11 PM pelmetman - 2020-12-20 9:53 AM Barryd999 - 2020-12-20 9:48 AM It would have made sense back in July Stuart when we had that option and knew just how bad Covid was going to be come the winter but we are truly through the looking glass now. Yes it would still make sense but since when was making sense something that this government or Brexiteers subscribed to. Its them that will suffer the most so lets rip that plaster right off and get it over with. Sadly it's against EU law (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Oooh the delicious irony >:-) ........ Treaties are merely glorified contracts between consenting legal entities. If both parties are in agreement, the terms can be varied at any time that the treaty is in force, including changing the contractual end-date. Do you really think the EU could renegotiate a contract in just 11 days? 8-) ....... They cant even approve a vaccine in weeks during a Pandemic *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Brussels have commented that they can extend the discussions even if illegal as by the time it came to court it will have been resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 mtravel - 2020-12-20 10:44 AM Growing fear ? At least for those with a few neurons left. It depended on me I would say: for too long you have been a pain in the ass for all of Europe. No gentlemen, too late, even if you wish you cannot. Europe’s ass needs a good kicking as many in it are not happy with how it is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 StuartO - 2020-12-20 9:33 AM Given that both we and the EU are struggling with coronavirus and that there is no agreement for a non-turbulent end to the Transition Period, would it make sense to extend transition terms (i.e. preseve the status quo) for a period long enough for both sides to have got the virus under proper control? I was thinking of another twelve months. Obviously it would make sense but neither this government or Brexit headbangers 'do' commonsense. Both are hell bent on pursuing the most massive self harm in history. Take a look at some of the links i've been posting on other threads.....Trucks backed up for 25km either side of the Channel as UK retailers begin stockpiling to prepare for the Armageddon of third country status requiring every truck to be checked and accompanied by a raft of documentation eight inches thick. Where are the staff to deal with that? Training a customs entry clerk takes 6 -18 months. Before joining the SM Dover Port alone had 130 Customs agents dealing with the truckers.....now there are just 17 as after joining the SM in '92 they didn't need so many but the volume of trucks coming in has more than doubled. Johnson and his government have completely ignored the logistics involved over freight and many European truckers will turn their backs on the UK in preference to running in EU countries where they can earn a living. When a truck isn't rolling, it's driver isn't earning. Listen to people actually on the front line instead of Johnsons clowns and Brexit headbangers. Listen to people like Steve Applebee, CEO of Harbour shipping at Dover, John Shirley, boss of a freight forwarding company in Dover or Cieran, a British courier delivery driver whose transported goods in every European country. These are the people Johnson (and Brexiteers) should be listening to instead of trotting out silly soundbites all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-12-20 1:54 PM mtravel - 2020-12-20 10:44 AM Growing fear ? At least for those with a few neurons left. It depended on me I would say: for too long you have been a pain in the ass for all of Europe. No gentlemen, too late, even if you wish you cannot. Europe’s ass needs a good kicking as many in it are not happy with how it is going. This is not true at all J/start and you've been completely misled possibly from reading views of some anti-EU (generally far right) opinions. Support has grown stronger. But why would you concern yourself over the EU after voting to leave it? You no longer have any say in what they do and you need to pay attention to sorting the mess Brexiteers have created in this country rather than mithering over what any other country/s is/are doing. You're accountable for the mess......not the EU, not Covid. Get a move on. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-eu-survey-italy-ireland-portugal-eurosceptic-poll-a8888126.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 StuartO - 2020-12-20 9:33 AM Given that both we and the EU are struggling with coronavirus and that there is no agreement for a non-turbulent end to the Transition Period, would it make sense to extend transition terms (i.e. preseve the status quo) for a period long enough for both sides to have got the virus under proper control? I was thinking of another twelve months. If another transition period is arranged, with Johnsons u-turn record - he may well apply to rejoin the EU by the end of it. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 malc d - 2020-12-20 3:28 PM StuartO - 2020-12-20 9:33 AM Given that both we and the EU are struggling with coronavirus and that there is no agreement for a non-turbulent end to the Transition Period, would it make sense to extend transition terms (i.e. preseve the status quo) for a period long enough for both sides to have got the virus under proper control? I was thinking of another twelve months. If another transition period is arranged, with Johnsons u-turn record - he may well apply to rejoin the EU by the end of it. ;-) LOL! That would be feckin funny! Imagine if that happened. Pelmet would simply explode. Mind you with a clear majority now in favour of remaining? (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-12-20 3:07 PM jumpstart - 2020-12-20 1:54 PM mtravel - 2020-12-20 10:44 AM Growing fear ? At least for those with a few neurons left. It depended on me I would say: for too long you have been a pain in the ass for all of Europe. No gentlemen, too late, even if you wish you cannot. Europe’s ass needs a good kicking as many in it are not happy with how it is going. This is not true at all J/start and you've been completely misled possibly from reading views of some anti-EU (generally far right) opinions. Support has grown stronger. But why would you concern yourself over the EU after voting to leave it? You no longer have any say in what they do and you need to pay attention to sorting the mess Brexiteers have created in this country rather than mithering over what any other country/s is/are doing. You're accountable for the mess......not the EU, not Covid. Get a move on. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-eu-survey-italy-ireland-portugal-eurosceptic-poll-a8888126.html Watch out Jumpstart ;-) ......... Looks like Bullet Liar is lining you up for his new hate figure after I've left :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-12-20 3:42 PM malc d - 2020-12-20 3:28 PM StuartO - 2020-12-20 9:33 AM Given that both we and the EU are struggling with coronavirus and that there is no agreement for a non-turbulent end to the Transition Period, would it make sense to extend transition terms (i.e. preseve the status quo) for a period long enough for both sides to have got the virus under proper control? I was thinking of another twelve months. If another transition period is arranged, with Johnsons u-turn record - he may well apply to rejoin the EU by the end of it. ;-) LOL! That would be feckin funny! Imagine if that happened. Pelmet would simply explode. Mind you with a clear majority now in favour of remaining? (lol) Seems to me when Malc got off the fence ;-) ......... He arrived in Narnia aka Barryland :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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