BruceM Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 The initial ‘high’ battery reading may have been influence by solar. So, after 26Hrs off the van 12.85v and after 36hrs 12.84v . I’ve no reason to doubt the accuracy of the meter as it concurred with the voltage displayed by the digital battery charger when I had used it. Re the transponder suggestion, that’s quite possible and had occurred to me. When the van didn’t start I attempted to start the engine several times but did not remove the key from the ignition. When the van did start twenty minutes later it was with the same key fob but of course the key had been moved away from the ignition column for a time. I would have expected the ‘key symbol’ light to stay illuminated on the dashboard if the fob had not been recognised but it wasn’t but then maybe the ECU was just having a bad day. The new battery arrives today so once I’ve charged it up I’ll get it fitted and monitor the cold start from thereon in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 BruceM - 2021-01-05 10:57 AM The initial ‘high’ battery reading may have been influenced by solar... Plainly, if there’s a solar-panel putting charge into a battery, that’s going to be reflected in any voltage read at the battery’s terminals. It’s akin to taking a voltage reading when the motorhome’s alternator is charging the battery (when the readout might show 14V to 15V) or when the motorhome’s on-board battery-charger is operating (readout 13.8V to 14.5V). For a useful reading, the battery should have received no charge for several hours, must not be receiving any charge, and no electrical load must be being placed on it when the readng is taken. https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_measure_state_of_charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 My van struggled to start the other day, 12 volt reading, switched the charger on and left it a few hours it started Ok after that but the battery does not seem to be holding a charge, sooo I bought a new battery two days ago , from EUROCARPARTS click and collect from a depot 2 miles from where I live,free delivery if wanted too,.My original Battery is at least 7 years old to my knowledge so it must be on the way out by now ? the new battery is LION cost me £89 reduced from £169 , Euro parts have frequent discounts it seems not fitted the new Battery yet, it was a bugger to remove the old one Fiat 2.8 JTD Chausson, so as it is so cold here at the moment that job can wait, Easy to obtain the new battery, just put your REG number in their search bar and it brings up the batteries for the vehicle. , they had Calcium plate batteries about the same cost but I plumped for lead acid because I know what that is, 3 year warranty on the new Battery too, So we will see how it goes later when the Sun comes out stronger again, it is Sunny here in Southampton but really cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 New battery arrived at midday today, Ordered through Tanya’s ebay facility yesterday afternoon. I’ve bought a Varta LFD 90, just shy of £100 delivered. It arrived with a reading of 12.7v so is now on charge prior to fitting. I’ve noticed that the casing of the old battery bulges a little around the +ve terminal, it may be how it was manufactured I guess so probably not worth reading anything in to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 12.7V equates to being fully charged - I think! Bulge doesn't sound good? I've been getting 404 error page not found lately. Anyone else experiencing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Hi, 12.7v indicates that the battery is fully charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 vindiboy - 2021-01-05 1:06 PM ...I bought a new battery two days ago , from EUROCARPARTS click and collect from a depot 2 miles from where I live,free delivery if wanted too,.My original Battery is at least 7 years old to my knowledge so it must be on the way out by now ? the new battery is LION cost me £89 reduced from £169 ... I’m guessing this is the battery you obtained from Euro Car Parts (ECP). https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/lion-019-car-battery-3-year-guarantee-444770191 It’s common knowledge that ECP’s sales philosophy is to state a very high RRP that can then be reduced by using a discount code. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/eurocar-parts-discounts.231130/ https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Replacement-Main-Engine-Battery/47380/?DisplayType=nested&setcookie=1&go=Go I believe “LION”-branded car batteries are made in Korea (and nothing wrong with that) and marketed in the UK exclusively through ECP. The late Allan Evans was scathing about Lion-branded leisure batteries https://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t28459-leisure-battery and you might be well advised to retain documentary evidence of the 3-year warranty. My 2015 Ducato-based Rapido's starter-battery has the same dimensions as the 019 Lion battery in the ECP advert. I replaced the Rapido’s battery last year as a precautionary measure and chose a Varta H3 Silver Dynamic as shown here https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/varta-silver-dynamic-h3-car-battery/ This has a higher Ah capacity and CCA than the Lion equivalent, came with a 5 years warranty and there was a small discount as I collected it myself from Tewkesbury. The battery is a “sealed calcium” type, which means that its electrolyte level cannot be topped up, and it is, of course, also a ‘wet acid’ battery. ECP advertises this Varta battery on-line priced at £254.99 (discounted from £294.17) and apparenty it is a ‘Best Seller’. https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/varta-silver-019-car-battery-5-year-guarantee-444770194 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 Wedged in behind the old battery I came across this. Does anyone know what it is? On the one hand it might be a covered connection but on the other hand it looks button like. I was just wondering whether to preserve access to it when the new battery is installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Bruce, That is your crash sensor and really should be mounted securely to the bodywork. If it gets bounced around it could trip and would shut your engine down immediately. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 So if it activated can it be deactivated by pressing the rubber ‘button’ ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 In theory yes but in practice I don't know! It MAY set a fault code in one or other of the ECU's which would require a code reader to clear. Unfortunately I don't have or work on Fiats so don't really know. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 As above. It is an inertia (crash) switch disabling the fuel pump. AFAIK, simply mechanical. Details from manual for 2.8JTD as per picture. (Edit: I think that, for petrol, you can also read diesel ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 Interesting. Do you have any idea how it works? Mine is wedged in place behind the battery but hanging down however the diagram above indicates it would normally be mounted attached to the bulkhead with the button facing up. I’m wondering if orientation makes a difference. Incidentally the engine starts fine as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 It’s just occurred to me, might it not be the sensor but in fact just the switch to reset the sensor if it’s activated? If so orientation will not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 BruceM - 2021-01-06 3:07 PM It’s just occurred to me, might it not be the sensor but in fact just the switch to reset the sensor if it’s activated? ..given the description for the rather similar looking item for the X250, I think not. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I agree 100% with RH, it IS the crash sensor itself. If you bang it quite hard into the palm of your hand the button should pop up and disable the motor. Press the button back down to reset. But caveat, do not blame me if you do require a scanner to reset the ECU's. I have zero knowledge of its operation on a Fiat! And it should be mounted to a bracket on the structure of the body to operate effectively. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 Many thanks both. It strikes me that correct orientation is definitely required. I think I’ve spotted where on the bulkhead it should be mounted – a job for tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 BruceM, To allay any doubts, I confirm that on the x244 Ducato, the primary function of the inertia device, or crash sensor, is to cut the supply to the fuel lift pump. There is no connection to the engine ECU. A secondary use of the device is to interrupt the supply to a fuel pump supplying an optional Webasto diesel fuelled heater. This second function is achieved via the normally close contacts of a relay, the coil of which is supplied via the normally open contact of the inertia device. I am including a link to an eLearn diagram of the 2.8JTD engine management diagram, E5050, here. The inertia device is item I050 just below the centre of the diagram, while the fuel lift punp and tank level sensor are denoted as the adjacent item N041. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 This ebay advert for the inertia fuel cut-off switch includes a number of photos of the part. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264279134797 The plastic body of the switch should carry two 'lugs’ (image attached below) to allow it to be mounted upright on the engine compartment’s rear bulkhead (ref Robinhood’s posting of 6 January 2021 1:22 PM above) but the photo BruceM provided in his posting of 6 January 2021 12:35 PM suggests that the lugs of his inertia switch have broken off. This switch has been fitted to a variety of Fiat models and on-line images indicate that it may be bolted (via the two lugs) directly to a metal panel or there may be bracket between the switch and the panel. Either way, there should be visible evidence in the engine compartment of Bruce's motorhome showing where the switch was originally mounted. This part is advertised ‘used’ fairly cheaply, but the cost if bought ‘new’ may be off-putting (example here) https://www.allcarpartsfast.co.uk/fiat-alfa-romeo/fiat-alfa-romeo-1314621080-switch/ Chinese copies (though the Part Number quoted is 1477226080) are advertised for less than £10 (example here) https://tinyurl.com/y435ozjr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted January 7, 2021 Author Share Posted January 7, 2021 Great information all – thank you. And yes, analysed to perfection Derek, the lugs have broken off. I could reattach with my own fixing or replace the part entirely. I think that if I was to replace it I’d prefer one with the red top. There seem to be plenty available on Ebay (even from the UK at twice the Chinese price https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUEL-CUT-OFF-SWITCH-1477226080-FOR-PEUGEOT-CITROEN-FIAT-FORD/254814930814?hash=item3b5427477e%3Ag%3AQmQAAOSwgRhf4eIh&LH_ItemCondition=3) however I’d be wary of doing so unless I was sure of part compatibility. Something I’ll have to dwell on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Bruce, This is a safety critical item which I would never trust to a cheap aftermarket part. My opinion, go original or go home! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 This switch appears to be widely fitted, not just to French/Italian vehicles and not just made in one country.. For example, this ebay advert https://tinyurl.com/y479locn shows one (apparently) used by Honda and made in the Dominican Republic, which is the country of origin also shown on some look-alike switches advertised for Ducatos. I’m not sure I’d want a switch with no country of origin shown on it, but - as the switch’s operation is very simple and it shouldn’t wear out - a good condition used example should be OK. Several alternative OE part numbers are quoted on-line and a Fiat agency shoiuld be able to say which would be compatible with Bruce’s Ducato. (Probably any of them...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 As a postscript: Everything now reinstalled correctly. We’ve had a couple of days of sub zero nights so I attempted an engine start. The pre-heater light came on for an extended time as before and then the van started up immediarely. My conclusion is that the issue was down to a failing battery. I suspect that having solar besides having the potential to extend starter battery life also masks a failing battery especially during the warmer weather. Thank you for all the input, it's been invaluable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 In days of old I had a Kenlow coolant heater on my Disco. Absolutely great warm toes from the off ! Sadly Kenlow no longer seem to sell but a similar product https://www.preheat.co.uk/product-type/coolant-heaters/ May offer a similar product. Cut and join into a coolant pipe and the unit has a small pump and heater that is connected to the mains. Or with a bit of ingenuity wired internally in the home to a 240v circuit. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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