Guest pelmetman Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 11:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 11:15 AM........................The ways things are going for the EU they're going to be doing a lot of that >:-) ..................... So, supposing it did all collapse, as you seem to hope, who would gain, and what would they gain? Something you Federalist cant comprehend ;-) ....... Sovereignty B-)............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 2:18 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-14 2:06 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 1:48 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-14 1:42 PM Barryd999 - 2021-02-14 1:04 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 11:06 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 11:02 AM Who's the EU Fool (now?) Guy :D ............ https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1397557/Brexit-news-Guy-Verhofstad-coronavirus-vaccine-Covid-19-EU-European-Union-Brussels (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... "Mr Verhofstadt tweeted a video of him addressing the controversy with the caption: “Pro-Europeans should be the first to be critical when things go wrong. On vaccines they certainly have." It is called leadership and accountability, it is what politicians in this country used to do until this bunch got in and moved any semblance of honesty from politics. If only we had someone of his calibre and honesty as our PM. A true statesman. Blimey, you set your standards low. A little challenge for you. Which of the current cabinet members displays such integrity? Oh Boris , absolutely, both peas in a pod. Thank you. That ends the case for the prosecution. Oh .so we agree both of the same low standard. Guy got ditched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-02-14 4:42 PM Oh .so we agree both of the same low standard. Guy got ditched. Ditched from what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 5:04 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-14 4:42 PM Oh .so we agree both of the same low standard. Guy got ditched. Ditched from what? Put forward to head EU but rejected........but you already know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-02-14 5:05 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 5:04 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-14 4:42 PM Oh .so we agree both of the same low standard. Guy got ditched. Ditched from what? Put forward to head EU but rejected........but you already know this. What in a vote? Like in some form of democracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 5:11 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-14 5:05 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 5:04 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-14 4:42 PM Oh .so we agree both of the same low standard. Guy got ditched. Ditched from what? Put forward to head EU but rejected........but you already know this. What in a vote? Like in some form of democracy? Yes fully transparent just like when they vote in the Pope. Unfortunately for him but fortunately for the rest of the eu public he was ditched. And they went for the person who wasn't even on the ballet......only in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-02-14 6:03 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 5:11 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-14 5:05 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 5:04 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-14 4:42 PM Oh .so we agree both of the same low standard. Guy got ditched. Ditched from what? Put forward to head EU but rejected........but you already know this. What in a vote? Like in some form of democracy? Yes fully transparent just like when they vote in the Pope. Unfortunately for him but fortunately for the rest of the eu public he was ditched. And they went for the person who wasn't even on the ballet......only in the EU. Poor old Yorkie prolly thinks giving MEP's a choice of ONE candidate is democratic (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-14 3:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 11:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 11:15 AM........................The ways things are going for the EU they're going to be doing a lot of that >:-) ..................... So, supposing it did all collapse, as you seem to hope, who would gain, and what would they gain? Something you Federalist cant comprehend ;-) ....... Sovereignty B-)............ Federalist? Not me. :-| Within a sovereign territory, its government, parliament, or ruler has sovereignty. Are you saying that the UK parliament did not exercise it's sovereignty when passed the European Communities Act in 1972, confirming Heath's signing of the Treaty of Rome in January that year? Both houses voted for it: the Queen signed it. In what way has the UK been unable to exercise it's sovereignty within its own territory since joining? Is the UK parliament "sovereign" in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Guernsey, Jersey, or the Isle of Man? Should it be? It becomes quite a convoluted legal argument. See here: https://tinyurl.com/y5zer92p The shorthand is that the British parliament is sovereign, and that it has agreed, sometimes changed, and sometimes rejected, as it sees fit, EU legislation that the government has placed before it. So there is no tangible overall gain in sovereignty from leaving, only a change in the location where a proportion of UK legislation is drafted. Parliament (and government ministers acting through the EU Council, see here: https://tinyurl.com/zndsndd) has always remained free to reject any EU legislation that is placed before it, just as it can reject any legislation the UK government places before it. The UK parliament is, and was, sovereign over which laws it passes. If it passes laws originating in Brussels, it is because it chooses to do so, not because it is/was forced by any external power to do so. So, as above, what have we gained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 6:36 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 3:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 11:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 11:15 AM........................The ways things are going for the EU they're going to be doing a lot of that >:-) ..................... So, supposing it did all collapse, as you seem to hope, who would gain, and what would they gain? Something you Federalist cant comprehend ;-) ....... Sovereignty B-)............ Federalist? Not me. :-| Within a sovereign territory, its government, parliament, or ruler has sovereignty. Are you saying that the UK parliament did not exercise it's sovereignty when passed the European Communities Act in 1972, confirming Heath's signing of the Treaty of Rome in January that year? Both houses voted for it: the Queen signed it. We were told we were joining a COMMON MARKET *-) ......... If it had stayed as a Common Market we would probably still be in it ;-) .......... So the EU only has its self to blame >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-14 6:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 6:36 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 3:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 11:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 11:15 AM........................The ways things are going for the EU they're going to be doing a lot of that >:-) ..................... So, supposing it did all collapse, as you seem to hope, who would gain, and what would they gain? Something you Federalist cant comprehend ;-) ....... Sovereignty B-)............ Federalist? Not me. :-| Within a sovereign territory, its government, parliament, or ruler has sovereignty. Are you saying that the UK parliament did not exercise it's sovereignty when passed the European Communities Act in 1972, confirming Heath's signing of the Treaty of Rome in January that year? Both houses voted for it: the Queen signed it. We were told we were joining a COMMON MARKET *-) ......... If it had stayed as a Common Market we would probably still be in it ;-) .......... So the EU only has its self to blame >:-) ......... In short you didn't understand the true definition of sovereignty and Brian has not only schooled you on it, he's skewered you yet again! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 >:-) ................ EU braced for pandemonium as insider warns 'German economy deteriorating quite fast’ THE European Union will break up once Germany runs out of money a German MEP has told Express. Euroscepticism is not something new. Ever since the efforts to achieve European integration started in the Fifties, political parties that made anti-integration their main platform started to mushroom throughout the continent. The current pandemic, lockdown measures, the economic crisis looming and the slow vaccine rollout seem to be exacerbating divisive trends in Europe, though. For example a survey by Tecnè during the fist wave of coronavirus in March showed 67 percent of Italians believed being a member of the bloc is a disadvantage for Italy which was up from 47 percent in November 2018. In France, President of the National Rally political party Marine Le Pen has come within reach for the first time of beating French President Emmanuel Macron in the 2022 election, according to an Ipsos poll las week. As many wonder whether the EU will be able to survive in the long run, German MEP Gunnar Beck has pinpointed the exact moment everything will start crumbling down. He told Express.co.uk: "EU leaders absolutely want European integration... why? "It's a mystery to me, because so far, they haven't been successful. "The European Community was relatively successful but things started going down the drain with the single currency and so on. "The economic performance of the last 25 years has been abysmal." Mr Beck noted: "But will the EU break up? "That depends on how much German money is left. "The EU will come under extreme strain when German money runs out. "The German economy performed well until two, three years ago but now it is not performing that well compared to other successful economies in the world. "Its fiscal situation is deteriorating quite fast." In a 2018 debate at the Oxford Union, former Greek Finance minister Yanis Varoufakis also claimed the bloc will break up because of Germany. He said: “The euro will break up, if it breaks up, I am not wishing that it does, I am simply describing the future as I see it. “The way it will happen is that Germany will leave the euro once the Berlin political class has had enough of the riff raff, asking the Greeks, the Italians, the French, the Portuguese and so on. “The moment they start sniffing in the wind that possibility they might have to bail out 2.7 trillion euros of Italian debt, believe you me, the Bundesbank already has a plan in the drawer for printing Deutsche Marks.” Mr Varoufakis then explained what will happen after is that all German accounts will be redenominated from euros to Deutsche Marks immediately, as Germany has a “gigantic account surplus”. He added: “The nearer we are getting to a fragmentation of the euro, the higher the value of the German euro. “Of course what will happen is euros will be shifted from Italian bank accounts to German bank accounts. “This is already happening. “There are about 200 billion in the last 18 months that have shifted from Italian to German bank accounts because of the risk of keeping your euros in a country that after the break-up of the eurozone will see its currency redenominated downwards not outwards.” (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Oh no you are cutting and pasting from the Express, I much preferred it when you used the New Statesman. Have the top investigate journalists at the Express found out who killed Lady Di yet? For the record Gunnar Beck is AFD - you know the Nazi party? Do you ask yourself why the Express and the Wail want to say how bad things are in Europe, do they know we've left. Shouldn't they be pointing out all the positives from Brexit here? Oh wait..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 9:55 PM Oh no you are cutting and pasting from the Express, I much preferred it when you used the New Statesman. Have the top investigate journalists at the Express found out who killed Lady Di yet? For the record Gunnar Beck is AFD - you know the Nazi party? Doesn't stop him from being German......and correct ;-) ......... BTW the Nazi party doesn't exist anymore, they banned it to stop Socialists voting for it :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-14 3:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 11:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 11:15 AM........................The ways things are going for the EU they're going to be doing a lot of that >:-) ..................... So, supposing it did all collapse, as you seem to hope, who would gain, and what would they gain? Something you Federalist cant comprehend ;-) ....... Sovereignty B-)............ Well perhaps you can explain it then If we didn't have sovereignty as an EU member, How could the Royal Tory Borough buy death trap cladding from a Tory donor when its banned by the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 :D ........... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9261409/Marine-le-Pen-WIN-French-election-senior-Macron-minister-admits.html (lol) (lol) (lol) ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 John52 - 2021-02-15 9:45 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 3:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 11:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 11:15 AM........................The ways things are going for the EU they're going to be doing a lot of that >:-) ..................... So, supposing it did all collapse, as you seem to hope, who would gain, and what would they gain? Something you Federalist cant comprehend ;-) ....... Sovereignty B-)............ Well perhaps you can explain it then If we didn't have sovereignty as an EU member, How could the Royal Tory Borough buy death trap cladding from a Tory donor when its banned by the EU? Nope can't see it mentioned there why are you changing the subject we need to learn about this sovereignty you are so keen on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 John52 - 2021-02-15 9:51 AM John52 - 2021-02-15 9:45 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 3:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 11:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 11:15 AM........................The ways things are going for the EU they're going to be doing a lot of that >:-) ..................... So, supposing it did all collapse, as you seem to hope, who would gain, and what would they gain? Something you Federalist cant comprehend ;-) ....... Sovereignty B-)............ Well perhaps you can explain it then If we didn't have sovereignty as an EU member, How could the Royal Tory Borough buy death trap cladding from a Tory donor when its banned by the EU? Nope can't see it mentioned there why are you changing the subject we need to learn about this sovereignty you are so keen on If you dont think we regained our soverignty by leaving the EU ;-) .......... Why do you want to leave the UK??? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-04 9:49 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-04 9:27 AM Looks like the EMA's attempt to save a few shekel's has backfired spectacularly >:-) ........... "The European Union is facing a cost of tens of billions of euros for the slow and chaotic rollout of coronavirus vaccinations compared to countries such as the U.K. and U.S." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-03/eu-faces-100-billion-euro-price-tag-for-bungled-vaccine-rollout (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... You realise that that's a projection? Whereas in the real world NOW the UK has the highest death rate and the lowest GDP. So much winning. Still spreading LOSER LIES *-) .......... The UK has the 4th worst death rate......Belgium the home of the EU has the 2nd worst death rate :-| ...... Tiny little San Moreno has top spot...........which just goes to show being a tiny country doesn't stop you from being overwhelmed 8-) ......... BTW.......Has the UK double dipped into recession like the EU??? >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-14 6:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 6:36 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 3:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 11:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 11:15 AM........................The ways things are going for the EU they're going to be doing a lot of that >:-) ..................... So, supposing it did all collapse, as you seem to hope, who would gain, and what would they gain? Something you Federalist cant comprehend ;-) ....... Sovereignty B-)............ Federalist? Not me. :-| Within a sovereign territory, its government, parliament, or ruler has sovereignty. Are you saying that the UK parliament did not exercise it's sovereignty when passed the European Communities Act in 1972, confirming Heath's signing of the Treaty of Rome in January that year? Both houses voted for it: the Queen signed it. We were told we were joining a COMMON MARKET *-) ......... If it had stayed as a Common Market we would probably still be in it ;-) .......... So the EU only has its self to blame >:-) ......... You forget Dave, or perhaps you never realised, that the fist step in changing the European Economic Community (which is what the EU was previously called), into the European Union, was the completion of the single market, which was promoted to the other EEC member states by Margaret Thatcher. The result, in the UK, was the Single European Act in 1993. That was a British initiative, and was passed into UK law by the (sovereign) UK parliament. That, in turn, led to "the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union" (originally the Treaty of Rome (but properly the "Treaty establishing the European Economic Community (1957)). This was amended to accommodate the Treaty of Maastricht (properly the Treaty on European Union (1992)) when it was re-named the "Treaty establishing the European Community". It was again amended to accommodate the Treaty of Lisbon (2007), when it was re-named the "Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union" (2009). At each step the UK government was fully involved in the negotiations, and at each step the (sovereign) UK parliament voted in the necessary changes to UK law. So, whether you were too young to follow that, or were too inattentive at the time, or just preferred to stay under your duvet while it all went on, that change from EEC to EU was initiated by a UK government, has been negotiated at each step by UK government ministers, and has been passed into UK law at each stage by the (sovereign) UK parliament. Whatever you may think you were "told" we were joining, we were actually joining the European Economic Community, which we did by signing the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community. Maybe you read the wrong newspapers even then? :-D So far from having "only itself to blame " the EU is largely what we made it, by exercising our sovereignty. From what you have said, it is clear you missed out on, or ignored, most of those changes, for which you really do have only yourself to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-14 10:01 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-14 9:55 PM Oh no you are cutting and pasting from the Express, I much preferred it when you used the New Statesman. Have the top investigate journalists at the Express found out who killed Lady Di yet? For the record Gunnar Beck is AFD - you know the Nazi party? Doesn't stop him from being German......and correct ;-) ......... BTW the Nazi party doesn't exist anymore, they banned it to stop Socialists voting for it :D ........ It is most unusual for you to say any German is "correct". Your usual reason for saying anyone is incorrect, is if they are German. Now you find a relatively fringe German politician, who says something you agree with, and he alone is suddenly correct. Given that he now has your stamp of approval, should we all worry? I don't think so! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-15 10:00 AM John52 - 2021-02-15 9:51 AM John52 - 2021-02-15 9:45 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 3:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-02-14 11:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-14 11:15 AM........................The ways things are going for the EU they're going to be doing a lot of that >:-) ..................... So, supposing it did all collapse, as you seem to hope, who would gain, and what would they gain? Something you Federalist cant comprehend ;-) ....... Sovereignty B-)............ Well perhaps you can explain it then If we didn't have sovereignty as an EU member, How could the Royal Tory Borough buy death trap cladding from a Tory donor when its banned by the EU? Nope can't see it mentioned there why are you changing the subject we need to learn about this sovereignty you are so keen on If you dont think we regained our soverignty by leaving the EU ;-) .......... Why do you want to leave the UK??? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Because the UK still had its sovereignty whilst it was an EU member. How else could the Royal Tory Borough buy death trap cladding from a Tory donor when its banned by Brussels? How could that happen if we were ruled from Brussels 'elf and safety like you claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-15 9:46 AM :D ........... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9261409/Marine-le-Pen-WIN-French-election-senior-Macron-minister-admits.html (lol) (lol) (lol) ................ Be very, very, careful what you wish for. Just do a little history, most of which you seem to have missed out on, before you get too glib over the break-up of the EU into 26 independent states all competing with each other for advantage. Just take a minute or two to look back at why the EEC/EU was formed, and why it came about. Are you really sure that was really a better world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-15 10:32 AM......................... The UK has the 4th worst death rate............... Yes, out of how many countries? And that is something to brag about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-02-15 12:41 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-15 10:32 AM......................... The UK has the 4th worst death rate............... Yes, out of how many countries? And that is something to brag about? And on several occasions we have been the worst with the highest death rate. Considering we are an island that also had more than two weeks warning of the approaching doom from Europe but wasted it doing nothing what does that say about our handling of the pandemic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-02-15 12:37 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-15 9:46 AM :D ........... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9261409/Marine-le-Pen-WIN-French-election-senior-Macron-minister-admits.html (lol) (lol) (lol) ................ Be very, very, careful what you wish for. Just do a little history, most of which you seem to have missed out on, before you get too glib over the break-up of the EU into 26 independent states all competing with each other for advantage. Just take a minute or two to look back at why the EEC/EU was formed, and why it came about. Are you really sure that was really a better world? Hard core radical Brexiteers like Dave are desperate for the EU to fall and for Europe to fail in our wake. They probably know only too well that Brexit will damage the UK so they desperately need other countries to follow us down the hole or for the EU to fall apart. It wont happen of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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