John52 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-27 11:55 PM John52 - 2021-02-27 11:12 PM What happens to the running costs of electric cars when the Government taxes them as much as petrol/diesel cars? They have got to get the tax from somewhere, There is less pollution coming out of the exhaust because its created elsewhere manufacturing the batteries and creating the electricity. Not that it will worry the politicians because they keep the polluting industries away from where they live What happens to ICE when the subsidy to the oil industries is removed? https://www.energyvoice.com/opinion/234139/uk-fossil-fuel-subsidies-exist-by-the-back-door/ Looks a bit one sided because I Can't see anything there about the tax revenue the Government has got from fossil fuels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 John52 - 2021-02-28 9:46 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... V8 gas guzzling polluter for Englands congested roads. Don't you care about kids who are dying with air pollution the cause of death on the death certificate? Couple of points ;-) .......... 1..........A classic car has already been built so will cost the planet nothing when compared to building a brand new electric Noddy mobile :D ......... 2..........A V8 petrol engine will produce far less damaging particulants than YOUR skanky builders van >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-02-28 7:36 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-27 9:58 PM A few facts. Depreciation is less than a ICE car. Tesla model 3 batteries good for 186,000 - 310,000, replacement cost £5k. Tesla give a 8 year 150,000 miles warranty on the battery. Tesla model 3 standard range 263 miles, long range 353 You fit a Tesla wall charger and charge overnight on a differential tariff (economy 7 for you dinosaurs) or solar, expect 25 miles range for each hour on charge. You can use a standard plug but only get about 8 miles range per hour charge. There are also Superchargers dotted around which when you use them will use the destination in your Gps to tell you when it's put in enough charge, it will also plan your route around Superchargers. Cost of electricity at a supercharger are half the fuel costs, it can put 80% range back in 30 minutes. So like it or not this is the future, more Superchargers will be installed just like more petrol stations were installed as cars took off. On street charging will become the norm - it's a purposeful emerging technology that is becoming mainstream. So at some point " down the road" when a vehicle has done the life of the battery and cant afford the £ 5k to replace the battery, presumably has to dump the whole car. Well because the depreciation is so low, there is more value in a ten year old EV than in a ICE. So spending £5k is a worthwhile investment and don't forget you've paid less than half the fuel costs to get to your 250,000 miles. When it finally does need to be scrapped 60% of a Tesla is recyclable. There is a big push to make the batteries recyclable with a new factory opening in Sweden, with EU funding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... That noddy mobile will piss all over your V8 with a 0-60 in 2.8seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-28 10:06 AM John52 - 2021-02-28 9:46 AM pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... V8 gas guzzling polluter for Englands congested roads. Don't you care about kids who are dying with air pollution the cause of death on the death certificate? Couple of points ;-) .......... 1..........A classic car has already been built so will cost the planet nothing when compared to building a brand new electric Noddy mobile :D ......... 2..........A V8 petrol engine will produce far less damaging particulants than YOUR skanky builders van >:-) ........ Is your new greenhouse second hand? Have you become a commie and no longer support the religion of capitalism? Or are you just trying to make a statement by driving a vehicle that is more damaging than it needs to be so that you can "own the libs"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-28 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... That noddy mobile will piss all over your V8 with a 0-60 in 2.8seconds. Think you're missing something....ever heard a V8 compared to a milk float? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-28 11:26 AM jumpstart - 2021-02-28 7:36 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-27 9:58 PM A few facts. Depreciation is less than a ICE car. Tesla model 3 batteries good for 186,000 - 310,000, replacement cost £5k. Tesla give a 8 year 150,000 miles warranty on the battery. Tesla model 3 standard range 263 miles, long range 353 You fit a Tesla wall charger and charge overnight on a differential tariff (economy 7 for you dinosaurs) or solar, expect 25 miles range for each hour on charge. You can use a standard plug but only get about 8 miles range per hour charge. There are also Superchargers dotted around which when you use them will use the destination in your Gps to tell you when it's put in enough charge, it will also plan your route around Superchargers. Cost of electricity at a supercharger are half the fuel costs, it can put 80% range back in 30 minutes. So like it or not this is the future, more Superchargers will be installed just like more petrol stations were installed as cars took off. On street charging will become the norm - it's a purposeful emerging technology that is becoming mainstream. So at some point " down the road" when a vehicle has done the life of the battery and cant afford the £ 5k to replace the battery, presumably has to dump the whole car. Well because the depreciation is so low, there is more value in a ten year old EV than in a ICE. So spending £5k is a worthwhile investment and don't forget you've paid less than half the fuel costs to get to your 250,000 miles. When it finally does need to be scrapped 60% of a Tesla is recyclable. There is a big push to make the batteries recyclable with a new factory opening in Sweden, with EU funding! So 40% of the Tesla is not recycled and someone has to pay to ship old batteries to Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-02-28 3:07 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-28 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... That noddy mobile will piss all over your V8 with a 0-60 in 2.8seconds. Think you're missing something....ever heard a V8 compared to a milk float? V8's are a bit 'agricultural' burbling American, Can't beat the sound of a twin turbo highly tuned V6 or V10 at full chat such as the Peugeot WRC rally driver Sebastien Loeb drove to gain a new Pikes Peak record. 875bhp pulling 875kg, 0 - 62mph in 1.8 seconds and 0 -150mph in 7 seconds; Loeb held the record for five years until 2018 when another French racing driver, Romain Dumas, smashed Loebs record driving an all electric Volkswagen. It might not sound quite as exciting as Loebs car........but it's most definitely no "milk float"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Bulletguy - 2021-02-28 3:47 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-28 3:07 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-28 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... That noddy mobile will piss all over your V8 with a 0-60 in 2.8seconds. Think you're missing something....ever heard a V8 compared to a milk float? V8's are a bit 'agricultural' burbling American, Can't beat the sound of a twin turbo highly tuned V6 or V10 at full chat such as the Peugeot WRC rally driver Sebastien Loeb drove to gain a new Pikes Peak record. 875bhp pulling 875kg, 0 - 62mph in 1.8 seconds and 0 -150mph in 7 seconds; Loeb held the record for five years until 2018 when another French racing driver, Romain Dumas, smashed Loebs record driving an all electric Volkswagen. It might not sound quite as exciting as Loebs car........but it's most definitely no "milk float"! I seem to remember Ernie had the fastest milk float. Listening to GT3's compared to Formula E....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Why do cars need to make any noise at all, Rolls Royce had it right 100 years ago when all you can hear at 60mph was the clock ticking! And then we had progress to what we have now stupidly low slung, pointlessly over powered, needlessly noisy, uncomfortably hard riding, overly complex cars pandering to a juvenille motoring press totally out of touch with the real purpose of a motor car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Tracker - 2021-02-28 4:15 PM Why do cars need to make any noise at all, For the safety of blind or partially sighted folks who want to cross the road. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-02-28 3:07 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-28 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... That noddy mobile will piss all over your V8 with a 0-60 in 2.8seconds. Think you're missing something....ever heard a V8 compared to a milk float? You should of heard my Fanny after I fitted it with a Essex V6 and twin exhausts B-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Tracker - 2021-02-28 4:15 PM Why do cars need to make any noise at all, Rolls Royce had it right 100 years ago when all you can hear at 60mph was the clock ticking! And then we had progress to what we have now stupidly low slung, pointlessly over powered, needlessly noisy, uncomfortably hard riding, overly complex cars pandering to a juvenille motoring press totally out of touch with the real purpose of a motor car. I did the Beaujolais run to Paris in a 1919 supercharged RR Silver Ghost.....my god was it noisy. It was a 7 litre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-02-28 4:01 PM Bulletguy - 2021-02-28 3:47 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-28 3:07 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-28 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... That noddy mobile will piss all over your V8 with a 0-60 in 2.8seconds. Think you're missing something....ever heard a V8 compared to a milk float? V8's are a bit 'agricultural' burbling American, Can't beat the sound of a twin turbo highly tuned V6 or V10 at full chat such as the Peugeot WRC rally driver Sebastien Loeb drove to gain a new Pikes Peak record. 875bhp pulling 875kg, 0 - 62mph in 1.8 seconds and 0 -150mph in 7 seconds; Loeb held the record for five years until 2018 when another French racing driver, Romain Dumas, smashed Loebs record driving an all electric Volkswagen. It might not sound quite as exciting as Loebs car........but it's most definitely no "milk float"! I seem to remember Ernie had the fastest milk float. Listening to GT3's compared to Formula E....... I don't watch Formula E and now rarely watch F1 preferring WRC. Electric cars for everyday use is going to take some time before they become commonplace but the existence of Formula E is proof that it's going to happen. The tax/VED situation will be interesting to watch what they come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 And why EV's matter https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/gulf-stream-lifeline-at-its-weakest-in-more-than-a-millennium-1.4495049 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-28 6:44 PM And why EV's matter https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/gulf-stream-lifeline-at-its-weakest-in-more-than-a-millennium-1.4495049 Yes possibly quite a worry. Hydrogen is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-02-28 7:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-28 6:44 PM And why EV's matter https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/gulf-stream-lifeline-at-its-weakest-in-more-than-a-millennium-1.4495049 Yes possibly quite a worry. Hydrogen is the way to go. How are you going to make the hydrogen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... My dream car a Bentley Continental . W16 . Could just about afford a 17 year old one but road tax and 16 miles to the gallon defeats me and I would worry someone might scratch it. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-28 7:20 PM jumpstart - 2021-02-28 7:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-02-28 6:44 PM And why EV's matter https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/gulf-stream-lifeline-at-its-weakest-in-more-than-a-millennium-1.4495049 Yes possibly quite a worry. Hydrogen is the way to go. How are you going to make the hydrogen? I don't make Hydrogen, just occasionally methane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Whole life environmental costs https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/01/fossil-fuel-cars-make-hundreds-of-times-more-waste-than-electric-cars?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-03-01 8:24 AM Whole life environmental costs https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/01/fossil-fuel-cars-make-hundreds-of-times-more-waste-than-electric-cars?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other Ah yes but blue gas can be used in domestic boilers as well as cars trucks busses motorhomes, without scrapping every single boiler in the country and all the radiators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 Hydrogen plant for Scotland... https://www.powerengineeringint.com/hydrogen/scotland-plans-world-first-continuous-green-hydrogen-project/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 teflon2 - 2021-02-28 7:27 PM pelmetman - 2021-02-28 8:53 AM I'd rather have a V8 classic car that a tree hugging Noddy mobile B-) ......... My dream car a Bentley Continental . W16 . Could just about afford a 17 year old one but road tax and 16 miles to the gallon defeats me and I would worry someone might scratch it. B-) A bit too flash for me ;-) .......... I'd quite like another Gangster special....The 3.8s Jag B-) ........ Or a Rover P6 V8 :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-03-01 8:24 AM Whole life environmental costs https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/01/fossil-fuel-cars-make-hundreds-of-times-more-waste-than-electric-cars?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other Now do the maths if you keep the same vehicle for 40 years :D ........ How many Noddy cars will the average Joe get through? *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-01 8:30 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-03-01 8:24 AM Whole life environmental costs https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/01/fossil-fuel-cars-make-hundreds-of-times-more-waste-than-electric-cars?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other Ah yes but blue gas can be used in domestic boilers as well as cars trucks busses motorhomes, without scrapping every single boiler in the country and all the radiators. Blue gas is hydrogen? No it can't be used dometic boilers, we would also need all the gas distribution networks replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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