Tracker Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Many people who are 'fortunate' as you put it didn't start off 'fortunate', they started with nowt and spotted the opportunities to make themselves more 'fortunate' when the opportunities fortuitously appeared. Many of us could have been even more 'fortunate' had we chosen to take more risk but 'fortunate' enough to recognise when one is content and comfortable is enough 'fortune' for some of us. I know, as I suspect we all do, people who had similar opportunities to be 'fortunate' and did not take the opportunities and as a result are less than 'fortunate' now. Like many, I am happy to pay tax to support those less fortunate, as there but for the grace of 'fortune' go I, but I resent paying tax to support the people that I find most irritating - freeloaders who make no effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 29, 2021 Author Share Posted September 29, 2021 Bulletguy - 2021-09-29 4:21 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-09-29 1:16 PM It was/is inevitable that people would exchange info on SM about any garage that had run out of the required fuel, even if only to ask if anyone knew whether other garages had it. If a number of people did likewise, and more others read the queries, an impression of at least a local shortage would be created. Like it or not sm is quickest method of exchanging news info and used by billions of people around the world due to the proliferation of the smartphone. I don't have a smartphone because I don't like using them and some would say it's a generational thing which to an extent it is though i've seen a few older folk using them. Any "breaking news" can easily be flashed around the globe via sm in nano seconds so any info regarding the current fuel situation such as garages closed/open was bound to spread quickly and people using vehicles for business purposes would find it extremely useful. Then, the government trying to draw a veil over the issue by announcing that there is plenty of fuel really - at the refineries - was hardly going to reassure those trying to get fuel from empty pumps that all was OK. You can't fill your car at a refinery! Shapps seems to think so. On Sundays Marr show he said he knew there was no shortages because he'd spoken with all our refineries. Being a cabinet minister his cars are always filled up with fuel by someone else - maybe he thinks they fill up government vehicles at a refinery ? (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Perhaps associating the words 'think' and 'minister' in the same sentence is asking a bit much - maybe they all have university trained but with no life experience minions to do the thinking which would explain why they keep getting it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Tracker - 2021-09-29 4:34 PM Many people who are 'fortunate' as you put it didn't start off 'fortunate', they started with nowt and spotted the opportunities to make themselves more 'fortunate' when the opportunities fortuitously appeared. Many of us could have been even more 'fortunate' had we chosen to take more risk but 'fortunate' enough to recognise when one is content and comfortable is enough 'fortune' for some of us. I know, as I suspect we all do, people who had similar opportunities to be 'fortunate' and did not take the opportunities and as a result are less than 'fortunate' now. Like many, I am happy to pay tax to support those less fortunate, as there but for the grace of 'fortune' go I, but I resent paying tax to support the people that I find most irritating - freeloaders who make no effort. I dont know what job you did as a young man, but simple question for you. If that job still exists would you be able to buy the house you bought at the time at four times the salary the job NOW pays? What is the multiple of the salary to house value now and then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-29 5:23 PM I dont know what job you did as a young man, but simple question for you. If that job still exists would you be able to buy the house you bought at the time at four times the salary the job NOW pays? What is the multiple of the salary to house value now and then? I had a job I did not enjoy and even with two wages we could not afford a house where we were. So we took the opportunity to move to a less expensive area, I found a better job, we started a family and we bought a wreck of a house which we did up and sold on. Several homes and several jobs later we found we had a good income and a nice home - how fortunate I was to marry a good wife and manage to be in the right places at the right times! House prices are crazy in the UK and I sympathise with the young trying to get started in life but as I was so fortunate I have been able to help my son buy his own home out of my lifetime's winnings. Good job then that I made the effort to be in the right places at the right times innit! It don't happen by itself - you have to make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Thanks that's interesting. I'm sure you will recognise that some people won't have access to the bank of mam and dad. So what was the multiple of your salary to the house price then and what is the same job and house price now, just roughly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-29 6:24 PM So what was the multiple of your salary to the house price then and what is the same job and house price now, just roughly? I have no idea and no imterest but if I did I would tell you to mind your own b##### business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Tracker - 2021-09-29 10:49 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-29 6:24 PM So what was the multiple of your salary to the house price then and what is the same job and house price now, just roughly? I have no idea and no imterest but if I did I would tell you to mind your own b##### business. Why? I'm asking for a multiple, not what your original salary and first house cost - it would be in the form of 1:4 or similar. All I'm trying to explore is how "fortunate" are today's youngsters. You know the ones you think should make their own luck. https://www.schroders.com/en/uk/private-investor/insights/markets/what-174-years-of-data-tell-us-about-house-price-affordability-in-the-uk/ I left university and went to London in the 80''s just at the time that MIRAS was stopped producing one of the early bouts of house price inflation, I didn't actually buy but I could have just about have afforded to at a 1:3 ratio. My nephew finished his degree about eight years ago and went to London that ratio has now moved to 1:11. He will never be able to afford to buy a property there, yet Johnson and co think he should pay more tax / national insurance so you and I don't have to make a significant contribution from the sale of our properties towards whatever care we might need in our old age - we're very fortunate aren't we? But that imbalance in wealth and opportunities will come to an end - the question is how peaceful will that reckoning be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Tracker - 2021-09-29 10:49 PM I have no idea Yes we know because you have made that pretty clear What we are trying to suggest is that you should find out -- before you go off on one deriding those who haven't been as lucky as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-30 12:20 AM Tracker - 2021-09-29 10:49 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-29 6:24 PM So what was the multiple of your salary to the house price then and what is the same job and house price now, just roughly? I have no idea and no imterest but if I did I would tell you to mind your own b##### business. Why? I'm asking for a multiple, not what your original salary and first house cost - it would be in the form of 1:4 or similar. All I'm trying to explore is how "fortunate" are today's youngsters. You know the ones you think should make their own luck. https://www.schroders.com/en/uk/private-investor/insights/markets/what-174-years-of-data-tell-us-about-house-price-affordability-in-the-uk/ I left university and went to London in the 80''s just at the time that MIRAS was stopped producing one of the early bouts of house price inflation, I didn't actually buy but I could have just about have afforded to at a 1:3 ratio. My nephew finished his degree about eight years ago and went to London that ratio has now moved to 1:11. He will never be able to afford to buy a property there, yet Johnson and co think he should pay more tax / national insurance so you and I don't have to make a significant contribution from the sale of our properties towards whatever care we might need in our old age - we're very fortunate aren't we? But that imbalance in wealth and opportunities will come to an end - the question is how peaceful will that reckoning be? Perhaps your nephew needs to ask the taxpayer for a 4.1 million bung ;-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 30, 2021 Author Share Posted September 30, 2021 Tracker - 2021-09-29 6:15 PM Good job then that I made the effort to be in the right places at the right times innit! It don't happen by itself - you have to make it happen. You were clearly unique in being able to organise your own date of birth. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-30 9:13 AM Tracker - 2021-09-29 6:15 PM Good job then that I made the effort to be in the right places at the right times innit! It don't happen by itself - you have to make it happen. You were clearly unique in being able to organise your own date of birth. :-| I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference.........When it appears some folk of our generation were born to be misrable moaners ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-30 9:40 AM I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference...... aren't you even able to see that we had opportunities that are not available now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 John52 - 2021-09-30 10:21 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-30 9:40 AM I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference...... aren't you even able to see that we had opportunities that are not available now? What more opportunities did I have with a sh1te comprehensive education, than todays clever university educated youngsters? ;-) ........ Just askin :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-30 10:36 AM John52 - 2021-09-30 10:21 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-30 9:40 AM I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference...... aren't you even able to see that we had opportunities that are not available now? What more opportunities did I have with a sh1te comprehensive education, than todays clever university educated youngsters? ;-) ........ Just askin :D ......... Well I too had a comprehensive school education, I then went on to do my first degree at university with no fees paid and a maintenance grant. My nephew went to the same comprehensive school and onto university to study law, he received a scholarship from Cambridge but still left university with 42,000 worth of student loans. I have already described the difference in house prices and salary have impacted. That's all quite a difference in a thirty year period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 30, 2021 Author Share Posted September 30, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-30 9:40 AM malc d - 2021-09-30 9:13 AM Tracker - 2021-09-29 6:15 PM Good job then that I made the effort to be in the right places at the right times innit! It don't happen by itself - you have to make it happen. You were clearly unique in being able to organise your own date of birth. :-| I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference................ If you were a boy born in 1936 would would be called up for National Service when you were 18. If you were born in 1940 you wouldn't. If cheap mortgages are made available, for a couple of years, to boost house sales, for anyone 21 years old or more, and you are only 18, you can't get one. Recent changes to the age in which you become entitled to a state pension have made a lot of difference to some peoples lives. There are plenty more examples, but I doubt if you could grasp any of them, so I can't be bothered to list any more. Clearly, it doesn't take a genius to realise that when people are born can make a significant difference to their lives. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-30 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-30 9:40 AM malc d - 2021-09-30 9:13 AM Tracker - 2021-09-29 6:15 PM Good job then that I made the effort to be in the right places at the right times innit! It don't happen by itself - you have to make it happen. You were clearly unique in being able to organise your own date of birth. :-| I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference................ If you were a boy born in 1936 would would be called up for National Service when you were 18. If you were born in 1940 you wouldn't. If cheap mortgages are made available, for a couple of years, to boost house sales, for anyone 21 years old or more, and you are only 18, you can't get one. Recent changes to the age in which you become entitled to a state pension have made a lot of difference to some peoples lives. There are plenty more examples, but I doubt if you could grasp any of them, so I can't be bothered to list any more. Clearly, it doesn't take a genius to realise that when people are born can make a significant difference to their lives. ;-) You have a point ;-) ........... Those born after 1963 did not get the automatic opportunity to grow a backbone :D ....... Some of us voluntered for it B-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-30 12:11 PM malc d - 2021-09-30 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-30 9:40 AM malc d - 2021-09-30 9:13 AM Tracker - 2021-09-29 6:15 PM Good job then that I made the effort to be in the right places at the right times innit! It don't happen by itself - you have to make it happen. You were clearly unique in being able to organise your own date of birth. :-| I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference................ If you were a boy born in 1936 would would be called up for National Service when you were 18. If you were born in 1940 you wouldn't. If cheap mortgages are made available, for a couple of years, to boost house sales, for anyone 21 years old or more, and you are only 18, you can't get one. Recent changes to the age in which you become entitled to a state pension have made a lot of difference to some peoples lives. There are plenty more examples, but I doubt if you could grasp any of them, so I can't be bothered to list any more. Clearly, it doesn't take a genius to realise that when people are born can make a significant difference to their lives. ;-) You have a point ;-) ........... Those born after 1963 did not get the automatic opportunity to grow a backbone :D ....... Some of us voluntered for it B-) ........... and look how you turned out *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 John52 - 2021-09-30 12:20 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-30 12:11 PM malc d - 2021-09-30 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-30 9:40 AM malc d - 2021-09-30 9:13 AM Tracker - 2021-09-29 6:15 PM Good job then that I made the effort to be in the right places at the right times innit! It don't happen by itself - you have to make it happen. You were clearly unique in being able to organise your own date of birth. :-| I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference................ If you were a boy born in 1936 would would be called up for National Service when you were 18. If you were born in 1940 you wouldn't. If cheap mortgages are made available, for a couple of years, to boost house sales, for anyone 21 years old or more, and you are only 18, you can't get one. Recent changes to the age in which you become entitled to a state pension have made a lot of difference to some peoples lives. There are plenty more examples, but I doubt if you could grasp any of them, so I can't be bothered to list any more. Clearly, it doesn't take a genius to realise that when people are born can make a significant difference to their lives. ;-) You have a point ;-) ........... Those born after 1963 did not get the automatic opportunity to grow a backbone :D ....... Some of us voluntered for it B-) ........... and look how you turned out *-) Yep :D ........... If I was really unlucky I could have ended up a whinging whining old git like you LOSERS 8-) ........ (lol) (lol) (lol) ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-30 12:11 PM malc d - 2021-09-30 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-30 9:40 AM malc d - 2021-09-30 9:13 AM Tracker - 2021-09-29 6:15 PM Good job then that I made the effort to be in the right places at the right times innit! It don't happen by itself - you have to make it happen. You were clearly unique in being able to organise your own date of birth. :-| I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference................ If you were a boy born in 1936 would would be called up for National Service when you were 18. If you were born in 1940 you wouldn't. If cheap mortgages are made available, for a couple of years, to boost house sales, for anyone 21 years old or more, and you are only 18, you can't get one. Recent changes to the age in which you become entitled to a state pension have made a lot of difference to some peoples lives. There are plenty more examples, but I doubt if you could grasp any of them, so I can't be bothered to list any more. Clearly, it doesn't take a genius to realise that when people are born can make a significant difference to their lives. ;-) You have a point ;-) ........... Those born after 1963 did not get the automatic opportunity to grow a backbone :D ....... Some of us voluntered for it B-) ........... Service in the merchant navy or university got you an exemption - guess that they thought that both provided the recipients with sufficient backbone, which presumably those born after 63 who took either route would have also benefited from. Of course those that took the university route would have realised that unless you expect people to do their national service in nappies, that you would have had to be born by 1946 to be 17 by 1963. So yet again your basic maths and English let you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-30 12:48 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-30 12:11 PM malc d - 2021-09-30 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-30 9:40 AM malc d - 2021-09-30 9:13 AM Tracker - 2021-09-29 6:15 PM Good job then that I made the effort to be in the right places at the right times innit! It don't happen by itself - you have to make it happen. You were clearly unique in being able to organise your own date of birth. :-| I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference................ If you were a boy born in 1936 would would be called up for National Service when you were 18. If you were born in 1940 you wouldn't. If cheap mortgages are made available, for a couple of years, to boost house sales, for anyone 21 years old or more, and you are only 18, you can't get one. Recent changes to the age in which you become entitled to a state pension have made a lot of difference to some peoples lives. There are plenty more examples, but I doubt if you could grasp any of them, so I can't be bothered to list any more. Clearly, it doesn't take a genius to realise that when people are born can make a significant difference to their lives. ;-) You have a point ;-) ........... Those born after 1963 did not get the automatic opportunity to grow a backbone :D ....... Some of us voluntered for it B-) ........... Service in the merchant navy or university got you an exemption - guess that they thought that both provided the recipients with sufficient backbone, which presumably those born after 63 who took either route would have also benefited from. Of course those that took the university route would have realised that unless you expect people to do their national service in nappies, that you would have had to be born by 1946 to be 17 by 1963. So yet again your basic maths and English let you down. My basic maths and english has trumped your degree :D ......... As I'm not the moaning whining whinging LOSER (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 I grew up on a council estate, made a pigs ear of secondary education, did not do national service, did not go to university and yet I managed to navigate the book of life OK all without moaning or whingeing or blaming anyone else when things didn't go exactly my way. Always look on the bright side of life and make the most of every opportunity - it works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 30, 2021 Author Share Posted September 30, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-30 12:48 PM Service in the merchant navy or university got you an exemption - Graduates were not exempt from National Service - theirs was just delayed for a couple of years. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 30, 2021 Author Share Posted September 30, 2021 Tracker - 2021-09-30 1:25 PM I grew up on a council estate, made a pigs ear of secondary education, did not do national service, did not go to university and yet I managed to navigate the book of life OK... .......... all without moaning or whingeing or blaming anyone else when things didn't go exactly my way. Not even Gordon Brown ? :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-30 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-30 9:40 AM malc d - 2021-09-30 9:13 AM Tracker - 2021-09-29 6:15 PM Good job then that I made the effort to be in the right places at the right times innit! It don't happen by itself - you have to make it happen. You were clearly unique in being able to organise your own date of birth. :-| I doubt when you were born makes a blind bit of difference................ If you were a boy born in 1936 would would be called up for National Service when you were 18. If you were born in 1940 you wouldn't. If cheap mortgages are made available, for a couple of years, to boost house sales, for anyone 21 years old or more, and you are only 18, you can't get one. Recent changes to the age in which you become entitled to a state pension have made a lot of difference to some peoples lives. There are plenty more examples, but I doubt if you could grasp any of them, so I can't be bothered to list any more. Clearly, it doesn't take a genius to realise that when people are born can make a significant difference to their lives. ;-) Not to mention riding the wifes coattails to benefit from her inherited property. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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