2019 MH not charging leisure batteries when driving, but I think it should

[Redrockers]

Hi all,

 

I'm a newbie here and I've read many very useful posts on this forum but unfortunately not found the answer to my issue.

 

My 2019 Chausson 640 Titanium on a Ford Transit diesel base doesn't charge the leisure batteries while driving and hasn't done since I bought it secondhand a few months ago.

 

It's fitted as standard with:

CBE PC180-TR management console display

CBE DS300-TR distribution box (B1 not connected to anything)

CBE CB-516 battery charger

2 driving batteries under the driver's seat

2 leisure batteries under the passenger's seat

SCR(?) under plastic panel between front seats:

- 2x 5A fuses

- 1x 50A fuse

- 2x HFV7-P 012-HST relays

- B1 = connects to driving batteries +

- B2 = connects to leisure batteries +

- OUT = connects to B2+ in DS300-TR

 

The driving batteries charge fine while driving.

The leisure batteries and driving batteries all charge fine when connected to mains 240v when the mgmt panel is turned on.

The leisure batteries charge fine from the solar panel when the mgmt panel is turned on.

I've checked all the fuses I can find and all are ok.

 

I'm guessing as my MH base is a 2018 Ford Transit fitted with stop/start it will have a Smart Alternator so I believe it would make sense for a SCR (Split Charge Relay) to be fitted instead of a VSR (Voltage Sensitive Relay).

And the relay should be somewhere very close to the driving batteries, so I'm guessing this is what I've found between the front seats under the floor.

If this theory is correct, then the alternator should start charging ALL batteries (2 driving & 2 leisure) as soon as the engine has started. Correct?

 

Extract from the Chausson User's Manual Chapter XI:

--------

A coupling relay is installed between the two batteries:

- when traveling, this relay couples the two batteries together so that they are recharged simultaneously.

- separate» the batteries when stopped. In this way, if your unit battery is completely flat, you can still start your vehicle engine.

--------

 

I've recently driven for 4hrs which fully charged the driving batteries (according to the mgmt panel) but nothing went into the leisure batteries (confirmed with multimeter). The mgmt panel was turned on, the Fridge and all other hab area elec turned off so nothing was draining the leisure batteries.

 

Am I right in thinking the fault is with the SCR?

Should I be able to hear one of the HFV7-P relays click within 1-2 seconds of me starting the vehicle engine?

Is it a little button in the corner of the HFV7-P? what does it do? reset? explode??

Is it a light in the middle of the HFV7-P? When should it illuminate?

Apparently this is an old product and has been replaced, what with?

 

Are my guesses correct?

If not, any suggestions?

If I have to take it to a dealer to fix which dealer? Ford or Chausson? I don't want to be bounced from one to another.

 

Apologies for the long message but I hope you find all the information helpful :)

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Richard

 

[arthur49]

I think the first thing you have to establish is do you have a smart alternator?

 

It wasn't clear when we bought our Master based van in 2019, but plugging one of these into the accessory socket on dash showed voltage varying, whilst driving, between 11.8v and 15.2v (I can't recall exact figures but the voltage fluctuated wildly)

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303956259377?hash=item46c5347231:g:vuQAAOSwObZgdAC7

 

If you have a smart alternator then you need a battery to battery charger which feeds a constant 14.4v to leisure batteries. Example here https://www.roadpro.co.uk/product/02d-battery-to-battery-dc-dc-battery-chargers/votronic-3324-battery-to-battery-charger-vcc-1212-30-c85065/C85065

 

I believe there are work arounds with voltage sensitive relays (VSR) but beyond my abilities.

 

I should probably add that if your fridge is fed off your leisure batteries whilst driving it can draw 15A plus, which does nothing to help the charge going to leisure batteries

 

 

 

[Alanb]

Hi Richard,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

You are correct in expecting the habitation batteries to be charged while driving.

I note that your vehicle has a stop start system fitted. I have no direct experience, but as arthur has effectively suggested, your the stop start system may be causing large fluctuation of the alternator output voltage.

Arthur had a problem with his smart alternator fluctuating output voltage, which was eventually fixed by the addition of a B2B. (Battery to battery charger.)

 

I have some experience of rented Transits. Generally they had a starter battery, and an auxilliary battery as well as the habitation battery. The auxilliary battery is a standard Ford fitment.

 

Some parts of your description of your Chausson installation have me puzzled.

 

You list a CBE DS300 distribution board.

 

The DS300 seems two come in two basic versions, with and without an integral split charge relay, having three and two M6 terminal studs respectively. I am not aware of a DS300 with a fourth "OUT" terminal.

 

The larger DS520 does have this fourth terminal, which is connected internally to the B2 terminal via an internal Hall effect current measuring device.

 

Please confirm that you do have a DS300, and not a DS520.

 

While I would expect a DS300 with 3 x M6 studs to have an integral split charge relay (approx. 1" black cube).Tthe arrangement is open to critisism. The fridge 12V element supply is routed via the split charge relay. The small voltage drop caused by the approx 15A passing through the split charge relay has an adverse effect on habitation battery charging. Possible fixes include an external split charge relay, or diverting the fridge supply. I am tempted to speculate that your vehicle has been modified in this fashion.

 

A more radical approach would be to fit a B2B, and these are sometimes connected directly between the starter and hab batteries. If this method is used, a DS520 would not show the battery charge current.

 

Chausson MHs may be fitted with 2 off "Boite de Secuite". These are relays used as split charge and EMC relays. Perhaps your HFV7-P..... relays could be performing these roles.

 

A split charge relay does not need to be close to the starter battery, however the connections should be fused close to both starter and hab batteries (50A?).

 

For information, the CBE DS300 & DS520 take an ignition controlled supply, and monitor it internally. At voltages above about 13.2V, this supply is used to operate the integral split charge and fridge relays. The monitored supply is made available about halfway down the RHS of the PCB. Marked FA4? This output may be used to control external split charge, fridge, and electric step relays. There is a fuse for this outout it is typically 3A (purple), with a coupled batteries icon.

 

I hope that the above jottings provide some clues.

 

Alan

[Derek Uzzell]

Redrockers - 2021-12-03 5:01 PM

 

...Extract from the Chausson User's Manual Chapter XI:

--------

A coupling relay is installed between the two batteries:

- when traveling, this relay couples the two batteries together so that they are recharged simultaneously.

- separate» the batteries when stopped. In this way, if your unit battery is completely flat, you can still start your vehicle engine.

--------

 

 

This statement appears (word for word) in Chausson User's Manual publications as early as 2014 - it's just a simple cut-and-paste chunk of text.

 

The Ford manual for a 2018/2019 Transit Mk 8 mentions that the vehicle may have one or two batteries housed beneath the driver's seat and, historically, the 2-battery set-up involved both batteries being used when starting the vehicle, with one of the batteries then being dedicated to powering 'accessories'. If your Transit has that arrangement and Ford's "Auto Start/Stop" system and a 'smart' alternator, how Chausson will have dealt with that combination is anybody's guess. Chausson's approach to motorhome electrics can be idiosyncratic.

 

Plainly the leisure batteries (particularly as there are two of them) should be getting adequately charged by the vehicle's alternator during driving and - as arthur49 has mentioned - when a motorhome is built using as a base a vehicle with a 'smart alternator', the usual ploy is for a B2B (battery-to-battery) device to be fitted to allow leisure batteries to be satisfactorily charged during travel.

 

All the CBE equipment and the two leisure batteries will be part of the Chausson conversion, so a Chausson dealership should be the first port of call. It's possible that the issue lies with the Ford installation, but the Chausson conversion has got to be the prime suspect and a Ford dealership will have little or no knowledge of that.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Alan, just for info, it seems there are several versions of the DS300, depending on the specifics of the CBE "kit" supplied to various van manufacturers, but also to suit whichever control panel they are paired with. For example, our van is all CBE, and has a PC110-KN control panel with the standard switching modified to substitute activation of the waste tank heater in lieu of activation of an "awning" light.

 

In addition, whereas CBE list the components of the standard PC110 kit as including a fresh water tank probe with five probe rods, for which the DS300 is illustrated with a single PCB mounted 4pin socked at position 14 (tank probe connection), our DS300-KN has two, apparently identical, PCB mounted 4 pin "sockets" at positions 14 (tank probe) and 15 (not used). In our case the tank probe supplied has 4 rods in lieu of 5, so the probe lead is connected to the socket at position 14 only. This has the effect of eliminating the minimum, reserve, level probe in the tank, so that the PC110 only records approx. 33 litres of water as the minimum water level. Below that, it merely indicates the tank as empty.

 

I don't want to divert this string from the Richard's question, but just to illustrate that CBE kits as supplied to various manufacturers can differ quite widely in detail/functionality from one to another, so there is quite wide scope for one to be quite different functionally to an, apparently similar, other. Hence, those -TR (presumably Trigano) suffixes just may conceal quite significant differences to what might be expected in an unmodified, aftermarket, equivalent.

 

I've also found that CBE's part numbers and descriptions, and those of their main UK wholesaler, don't necessarily correspond, and that CBE's "customer services" people have very sketchy knowledge of what bits are, actually, included with which "kit"! The actual components seem to me to work well enough, and to be of reasonable quality, but finding someone who can unravel what the differences actually are between this and that variation is, shall we say, "unrewarding"!

 

On the OP's query, two things struck me. First, whether the relay is actually "seeing" the simulated D+ signal, and second, whether, following a French wiring tradition, there may be an additional manual switch (a coupleur-séparateur) to isolate the habitation battery that no-one has told Richard is there. However, I would expect the latter to have been described in the owner's manual

[Alanb]

Richard,

 

On re-reading your informative post, I note that there is no connection to the B1 terminal of your DSxxx. In CBE nomenclature B1 is the starter battery (alternator) input. This is typically used for both hab battery charging and supplying the fridge 12V element.

 

The fact that the B1 connection is missing suggests that it may have been diverted, either to a B2B (which could have been removed), or to the HFV7-P 012-HST relays ?

 

Alan

[Brian Kirby]

Richard, have a look at this link to CBE website https://tinyurl.com/yc4cvzbf and see if either of the CSB40, or the CSB 96-P separators resemble your "SCR" between the front seats.

 

I think it should be one or other: which can be identified by the number top right, just below the words "Separatore Automatoco".

 

When you find which version is fitted, click on the picture of the relevant one to open the product details page, and download the pdf showing below left, which is the user manual for that version. The manual lists the terminals and their uses, and includes the appropriate schematic diagram for installation. My impression is that terminal B2 on the DS300-TR is/should be fed from this unit. However, the fusing you quote does not correspond with any on that web page, so I wonder if this is yet another item with a -TR suffix. You may, in that case, have to turn to a Chausson dealer, as they should have the appropriate manual. In view of your reference to two hab batteries being installed, do note the max Ah limitation on both starter, and habitation batteries.

 

Equally, until this item is positively identified, it seems equally possible that Alan's suggestion that a battery to battery was previously installed, and has been removed without reinstating the original wiring. Hope this helps.

[Derek Uzzell]

I can’t comment on the ‘SCR’ (?) between the front seats, but the two HFV7-P 012-HST items are evidently just Chinese-made ordinary ’normally-open' 70A relays as shown in the attached image below and described in this datasheet

 

http://www.hongfaamerica.com/hq/PDF/HFV7_en.pdf

 

The thing in the centre of the relay’s top is presumably an LED to indicate when the relay’s contacts have closed. I’ve no idea if the ‘button’ actually is a button that can be pressed to do something - I’d guess that it is not, but it should be easy to check this by pressing it.

 

A wiring diagram for the Chausson conversion would help, but I can’t find one online. A Chausson dealership should (might!) have one.

 

(Might be worth exploring the problem via the Chausson Owners Group on Facebook)

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/chaussonownersgroup/about/

[Derek Uzzell]

1: There's no reason to doubt the accuracy of Richard's description of the electrical equipment fitted to his Chausson 640 and listed in his original posting, but the "SCR ? under plastic panel between front seats" part may be critical and the simplest way to identify what it is would be for Richard to provide a photo of it or a reference number as he did with the two relays.

 

2: Based on FordTransitForum discussions, It seems likely that a 2018/2019 Transit Mk8 will have a 'smart alternator' as standard, but For'd "Auto Stop/Start" system appears to have been fitted to earlier Transit models (ie. some Transit Mk 7 vehicles) that had a 'normal' alternator. So because the Chausson has an operational Stop/Start system does not automatically mean that it must also have a 'smart' alternator too - just that it probably has that breed of alternator.

 

3: There is online advice on how to identify whether or not a vehicle has a 'smart' alternator (examples here)

 

 

 

 

4: However - as I understand Richard's problem - he is saying that the Chausson's two leisure-batteries are receiving ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE from the Transit's alternator when the vehicle's engine is running, rather than that the batteries are receiving an inadequate charge.

 

5: The Chausson is fitted with a CBE PC180 control-panel and there's a good explanation of the panel's functionality on this YouTube video

 

 

When the motorhome's engine is running, after a few seconds delay the starter and leisure batteries should be linked together and the vehicle's alternator should then charge those batteries as a single unit. The two leftmost buttons on the lower row of buttons on the PC180 allow a pictorial check to be made of the 'charge state' of the leisure and starter batteries (the more LEDs lit - the higher the voltage).

 

The PC180 image attached below shows a readout of a leisure-battery that's about half-charged. In normal circumstances when the motorhome's engine is running, a) a light should illuminate by the symbol I've arrowed in green, with the light indicating that the starter and leisure batteries have been linked together, and b) pressing each of the two leftmost buttons should give readouts with all the LEDs lit, indicating that the starter and leisure batteries are all receiving an alternator-produced charge of over 14V. If the light by the green-arrowed symbol does not illuminate and the leisure-battery button-check does not show an all-LEDs-lit readout, it would be assumed that the starter and leisure batteries have not been linked together and that the vehicle's alternator is not charging the leisure batteries.

 

6: However, the fact that the Chausson's DS300 Distribution Box has nothing on its B1 connection, indicates that the motorhome's wiring layout is unusual and this might well affect the PC180 readouts. If that were the case, one might think this would be highlighted in the Chausson Owner's Manual, but that might be wishful thinking...

 

(I've looked at some French motorhome forums to see if a similar issue to Richard's has been mentioned where recent Transit-based Chausson/Challenger vehicles are concerned, but I couldn't find anything relevant. I did come across a complaint suggesting that the ability to charge the starter-battery as well as the leisure batteries when the motorhome was on 230V hook-up was not possible (and that this was stated in the handbook). A bit odd, as a standard PC180 + DS300 system would have that capability.

[Redrockers]

Thanks everyone who replied.

 

Yes It says DS300TR on the cover.

Please note I did say the fridge is not turned on while driving so nothing is draining the leisure batteries while driving.

I contacted Chausson support a couple of weeks ago but no response, they truely are useless and as much as I love the MH layout I wouldn't buy another Chausson due to their lack of customer service.

 

I think I've found the cause though, I checked the voltage across all the fuses & connections in the, what I believe to be, the SCR and found one of the 50A fuses to be partially blown and not getting the power through.

I get 14.8V one side of the 50A fuse (obviously the alternator feed) & the other only shows the leisure battery current voltage (12.5V).

So come Monday when the shops open I'll buy a replacement, fingers crossed :)

Then I'll have the joys of finding out what caused it to blow (yes, I'm buying a couple of 50A fuses!! :)

 

Yes it's possible a B2B charger was removed by the previous owner but personally I don't think so. Firstly I can't find any "out of place" screw holes where something has been removed, or any DIY style wiring.

Alan, yes you're quite correct. What I'm calling the SCR is the diverted split of the B1/B2 connection :)

Derek, the PC180 does appear to show valid battery charge LEDs so currently I have no reason to think it's badly wired, but I'll keep that thought in mind.

Derek, I'm 99% certain the driving batteries DO charge on 240v hookup but the MH is nowhere near a power source currently for me to confirm.

 

I really big thank you to everyone, your responses have really helped me to understand the wonderful world of weird French MH electrics ;)

 

Richard

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Redrockers - 2021-12-05 11:47 AM

 

...Derek, the PC180 does appear to show valid battery charge LEDs so currently I have no reason to think it's badly wired, but I'll keep that thought in mind.

 

Derek, I'm 99% certain the driving batteries DO charge on 240v hookup but the MH is nowhere near a power source currently for me to confirm...

 

 

The PC180 control-panel is connected to the DS300 Distribution Box by a single cable with a multi-plug on each end. Plainly there is the possibility that there might be a fault with the cable or the plugs, and - if the control-panel were behaving oddly - it might be worth disconnecting and reconnecting each end of the cable just in case that worked magic. But otherwise the cable should not be a prime suspect.

 

As far as not charging the starter-battery via a 230V hook-up is concerned, this 09/2014 Chausson Ussr's Manual is the most recent I can find online.

 

https://www.chausson-camping-cars.fr/wp-content/uploads/MANUEL-Chausson-2015-Anglais.pdf

 

Page 24 has a drawing of a PC180 control-panel, and this seems to show the two rightmost symbols (connection to 230V power and charging of batteries via alternator) the opposite way round to the current (standard?) arrangement.

 

The functions of the PC180 TR panel are described on Page 25, and include the caveat "B1 engine battery charging: Function not available".

 

The normal behaviour for a PC180/DS300 combination is that, when the motorhome is on 230V hook-up and its onboard battery-charger is operating, (simplistically) the leisure-battery will receive the full voltage/full amperage that the charger is designed to provide, whereas the starter-battery will receive a reduced voltage/low amperage 'maintenance' charge (say 13.8V and 2A). Online comments on French and UK motorhome forums indicate that Chausson used to disable the latter function, but if that's still the case it should say so in the Chausson Manual (or, if the starter-battery nowadays does get charged from a 230V hook-up, one might perhaps expect the manual to confirm this). Anyway, it's something that's easily checked.

 

For information, there's advice here on modifying a DS300 when the vehicle has a 'smart alternator'

 

https://tinyurl.com/yckrfwfy

 

I'm not a fan of French motorhome manuals. Years ago I provided Pilote with a comprehensible English-language translation of their French-language manual and it soon became apparent that a fair bit of the information in the French original was out-of-date (the cut-and-paste effect) or wrong. My Rapido manual isn't too bad, but the manual's guidance on the CBE180/DS300 equipment is inaccurate and I spent a long time wondering why the Truma heater seemed to have a mind of its own until I referred to CBE's own documentation. I've not seen a recent Chausson manual, but the earlier ones don't inspire confidence.

 

As there wasn't any online yelling about recent Ford Transit-based Chausson/Challenger motorhomes not charging their leisure-batteries during travel, it seemed likely that the problem was specific to Richard's motorhome. Hopefully replacing the partially-blown fuse cures the problem and that the fuse failure was just a one-off that won't recur.

[Alanb]

Richard,

 

I am pleased that you have discovered a faulty fuse.

I am not sure what you mean by a partially blown fuse. However a fuse that has blown due to a reatively small overload may only have a small crack in the element, while a fuse that has blown due to a short circuit will often have the element vapourised into small blobs of metal. I appreciate that if the fuse is encapsulated as in a Midi fuse, the element will not be open to inspection.

 

Typical fuse elements used in main starter and habitation battery fuses are either strip (plain metal) fuses, or Midi fuses, where the element is enclosed in a plastic moulding, which is coloured red for the 50A rating. Both of these types of fuses are bolted onto a holder, or base, with M5 studs.

 

 

Brian,

 

Thank you for your information. However quite irrespective your posting, I am well aware that there are many variations in CBE DS300 units. The differences relative to this thread could have been centered around the presence or abscence of an integral split charge relay, (3 or 2 x M6 studs). However what Richard seems to be describing is a DS300 unit with 4 x M6 studs, similar to a DS520. Now that is a significant variant, of which I have no previous knowledge, hence my query.

 

 

Alan

[Keithl]

Redrockers - 2021-12-05 11:47 AM

 

...and found one of the 50A fuses to be partially blown and not getting the power through.

Richard,

 

There is no such thing as a 'partially' blown fuse, it is either good or it is blown!

 

What you are measuring is the starter battery voltage on one side and the leisure battery voltage on the other, as simple as that!

 

Keith.

[Hans]

Just last weekend of club member agility. Hans come to me nothing works. Battery flat Two pieces and a extra thrird installed. I asked what is your voltage reading on the Panel? she said i can not read that i see only light bars. flickering. Brand new motorhome.

[Redrockers]

no, what I mean is that the fuse shows NO resistance implying that it has a connection through the fuse.

BUT voltage cannot traverse the fuse thereby no volts are getting through, hence my comment.

From a basic fuse check it appears fine.

 

Thanks

[Alanb]

Richard,

 

As Keith has already stated, there is no such thing as a partially blown fuse.

 

Is it posible that in order to test the fuse, you are removing the fuse from a holder, and that disturbance is causing the ends of a broken element to make contact? Another possibility could be faulty connections to the fuse holder.

 

Do you know what type of fuse it is please? e.g. maxi blade, midi fuse, or strip fuse etc.

 

In order for forum members to understand what you are describing, and give further help, I think that you will have to describe your testing method in fine detail.

 

You are quoting 14.8V on one side of the fuse, and assuming that this is the alternator/ starter battery voltage. Please confirm that this was with the engine running. What voltages do you observe without the engine running?

 

Alan

[Derek Uzzell]

A couple of days ago I said

 

the "SCR ? under plastic panel between front seats" part may be critical and the simplest way to identify what it is would be for Richard to provide a photo of it or a reference number as he did with the two relays.

 

Richard has discovered a defective 50A fuse in what he believes to be a 'SCR' . I don't think arguing about fuses or discussing that particular fuse's specification has great value. Richard intends to replace the 50A fuse (and may now have already done so) and replacement may or may not cure the leisure-battery charging problem. But if replacing the 50A fuse (and the replacement fuse does not blow) does not result in leisure-battery charging taking place when the Chausson's engine is running, it's back to Square One.

 

In an earlier posting Brian Kirby suggested that the Chausson's mysterious 'SCR' might be a CBE coupler/separator, but these do not have 50A fuses. So what is the SCR and is it actually a SCR?

 

Although attaching a photo to a forum posting can be a mite tricky, there's guidance ("Uploading a file or image") in this Forums FAQ section.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Code-of-Conduct-and-User-Guidelines/Forum-User-Guide/Forums-FAQ/3930/

[Hans]

My former Motor Home Ford- Chausson Was delivered Whit A perfect Wiring diagram In A3.Where you can see all cables running. Only that i can understand.

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2018 Motorhome thread related to a then-new Chausson 627GA on a Ford Transit Mk 8 base.

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/pre-wired-connection-help-please.178680/

 

Attached to the original posting are 3 images, one of which (copied below) is part of a French-language wiring diagram that I assume related to the Chausson 627GA.

 

There's another Chausson wiring diagram (for a 2011 "Suite Relax" model) on this MHFun thread

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/wiring-diagram-suite-relax.242745/

 

I also assume that Richard has no similar wiring diagram for his Chausson 640 as - if he had - I’d have expected him to have said so.

 

But from what Hans has just said (and from what’s in the MHFun thread) it appears that Chausson do produce wiring diagrams and that these may (should?) be available to buyers of new Chausson motorhomes.

[Redrockers]

Just a quick update, we live very remote so I ordered some 50A fuses via Amazon (I hate Amazon but couldn't find them anywhere else). Unsurprisingly they still haven't arrived and the status on Amazon still shows "Delayed" after 3 weeks so I've no idea when they'll arrive.

 

Merry Xmas & wishes for a safe and trouble free New Year!

 

 

[mikefitz]

Mail order fuses,

 

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/fusing-circuit-protection.html

 

Can order online anytime but will not be processed until after 4th Jan.

 

Mike

[Alanb]

Redrockers - 2021-12-31 9:25 AM

 

Just a quick update, we live very remote so I ordered some 50A fuses via Amazon (I hate Amazon but couldn't find them anywhere else). Unsurprisingly they still haven't arrived and the status on Amazon still shows "Delayed" after 3 weeks so I've no idea when they'll arrive.

 

Merry Xmas & wishes for a safe and trouble free New Year!

 

 

In my opinion Ebay has a much better search engine than Amazon. Do not be discouraged by those who think that it is clever to use the derogatory names for Ebay. If I need something, Ebay is usually my first place of reference for many items. It is however wise to compare prices.

 

Here are the results of an Ebay search.

[Redrockers]

I totally agree and am also a big fan of Ebay. I've sold alot on there too.

But unfortunately we live in France and since Brexit & European Import Tax changes it's now very expensive buying outside of Europe.

My last purchase was a £6 item which cost an extra £14 in import tax!!

 

R