Payload query

[CattinJ]

Hi - I was hoping someone can assist with my query.

I am considering buying a Weinsberg Carabus 600 DQ. (3,500KG)

In the technical info, they state the unladen mass is 2,788Kg, but the running order mass is 2,898KG.

 

In the attached screenshot, I have understood that this is calculated with the unladen vehicle mass plus the weight of the driver at 75kg, 90% full fuel tank, 20 ltrs water, 23KG of gas, full boiler water and toilet - leaving a remainder of 602 KG payload to play with on top of the above.

 

Can I check that I have understood this correctly?

[Keithl]

Hi Catherine and welcome,

 

Well first off your figures do not add up!

 

2,988 kg less 2,788 kg leaves 110 kg

And then 75 + 20 + 23 equals 118 kg so that leaves nothing for the fuel allowance!

 

Is this a brand new MH or second hand? Either way the only way to verify the actual payload of this particular MH is to weigh it in a known condition.

 

Keith.

[Tracker]

I agree with Keith, but that said it should still have a decent enough payload when all the sums are done.

 

Don't forget to add in to the MIRO any extras like spare wheel (if not original), awning, solar panels, extra batteries, seat swivel bases, and anything else including modifications that would not have there when the van was ex factory.

 

Good luck!!

[Brian Kirby]

I would suggest you have a play around on the Weinsburg configurator, here: https://tinyurl.com/2p8e4kdv

 

They calculate the basic payload based on the most basic 2.2l 120ps engine on the light chassis with no extras/options added. The configurator will allow you to add various options that you may wish to have (for instance the 140ps engine), and will calculate your remaining payload as you do so.

 

From experience, I would be inclined to opt for the maxi chassis in lieu of the light chassis. This has more load capacity on both front and rear axles, and has tyres etc. to suit. Then, should you find it necessary to increase it's maximum allowable mass (MAM) in future you should have no problems apart, possibly, for the need for a C1 driving licence. It also generally rides and handles better than the light chassis, so even if you don't upgrade the MAM, you will still have advantage from the chassis upgrade.

 

While doodling around with the configurator I noticed that the electric entrance step appears to be extra - although that may be the extra cost to upgrade from a 500mm step to the 700mm version - which seemed to me a high cost for an extra 200mm!

 

As an aside, I was disappointed not to be able to find a separate technical catalogue listing the various engine, chassis, gearbox, and equipment options, their weights, and their costs. There is quite a range of options, and every one of them will add weight to their basic starting point. Also check their gas cylinder weights as it is quite common for German converters to quote the weights of aluminium cylinders, whereas the commonly available UK cylinders are steel, and weigh appreciably more.

 

Finally, see what they are doing with the fresh water load as the linked download seemed to me a bit weasel worded as to whether a full tank was included, or only 20l - which is a farce, unless you want to fill the tank whenever you arrive somewhere, and then dump the extra before leaving. Apart from the waste of perfectly good water, how do you know when you've only 20l left in the tank? Me? I start off with a full 100l on board, and refill when that drops to 40l - and ours is still (just! :-)) under 2,500kg when fully laden.

[Keithl]

Brian Kirby - 2021-12-17 7:04 PM

...and ours is still (just! :-)) under 2,500kg when fully laden.

 

2,500 kg Brian (?) (?) (?)

[Robinhood]

Brian Kirby - 2021-12-17 7:04 PM

 

As an aside, I was disappointed not to be able to find a separate technical catalogue listing the various engine, chassis, gearbox, and equipment options, their weights, and their costs.

 

..I think you'll need to use the following (in English)

 

https://weinsberg.com/fileadmin/media/mj2021-2022/cuv/carabus/pdf/kta-weinsberg-2021-2022-cuv-preisliste-carabus-en-int.pdf

 

possibly augmented by the more comprehensive German version:

 

https://weinsberg.com/fileadmin/media/mj2021-2022/global/service/fahrzeugkauf/kataloge-preislisten/preislisten/cuv/kta-weinsberg-2021-2022-preisliste-cuv-de-at.pdf

[John52]

My Van looks like an ordinary couriers van from the outside. I got pulled in for a weight check with the lorries going to Dover on the A2. As soon as I opened the side door the inspector said 'oh its a motorhome, we don't weigh those, you can go' So on I went, past the weighbridge without being inspected or weighed (new van so I guess they didn't think it worth looking for vehicle faults)

I have never heard a first hand account of anyone being weighed in a motorhome.

So I wouldn't worry about weight - within reason of course.

[Tracker]

John52 - 2021-12-18 8:25 AM

 

I have never heard a first hand account of anyone being weighed in a motorhome.

So I wouldn't worry about weight - within reason of course.

 

 

We were once weighed at a roadside check point mainly for HGVs way back in the 80's somewhere near Cambridge.

 

We had an early Auto Sleepers Talisman and it was fortunately within limits - more by good luck than by good judgement because in them days, pre forum, we knew little about weights and limits. I don't think it was a police instigated operation but police were present.

 

I too have never heard of anybody being 'done' for overweight but it does have handling, braking and safety implications when excessive.

 

There was an anecdotal tale some while ago about someone having to empty their water tanks to get legal and be allowed to continue but I don't know if it was true or just a tale?

 

It would be bad enough in the UK but having to discuss it abroad in a foreign language and seek a solution would not be something I would look forward to, so my inclination for peace of mind would be not to sail too close to the wind.

[Derek Uzzell]

This February 2021 French article relates to 'overweight' motorhomes

 

https://www.lemondeducampingcar.fr/pratique/reglementation/surcharge-du-camping-car-des-sanctions-damende-et-dimmobilisation/157850

 

Although (as the article says) such checks are infrequent in France, they do happen and the penalties can be significant.

[Hans]

Brian in our club motorhomes we drive whit BP light gas bottles. Polyethylene light weight. Caravans and vans , motorhomes. in two weight versions. Also used on the barbecue. You can see thru the bottle the level of liquid propane. By moving a little bit.

[Brian Kirby]

Keithl - 2021-12-17 7:11 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2021-12-17 7:04 PM

...and ours is still (just! :-)) under 2,500kg when fully laden.

 

2,500 kg Brian (?) (?) (?)

No, 3,500kg, Hawkeye! Specsavers again!! :-D

[Derek Uzzell]

Hans - 2021-12-18 12:46 PM

 

Brian in our club motorhomes we drive whit BP light gas bottles...

 

These gas bottles are also available in the UK, distributed by "Flogas".

 

https://www.flogas.co.uk/gaslight

 

The "Gaslight" bottles began to be marketed in the UK by BP in 2006 with Truma heavily backing the advertising campaign.

 

Because of the bottles' lightweight polyester construction the advertising targeted the caravanning community, but it was soon realised that the bottles' diameter was too large for many UK-built caravans' gas-lockers. Additionally - although BP Gaslight bottles were also marketed abroad - the outlet-valve fitted to the UK-sold versions and to the versions sold in (most) Continental European countries was not the same, thus preventing UK bottles being exchanged outside the UK.

 

The "Safefill" company originally used the same Hexagon Regasco cylinders in 10.0kg, 7.5kg and 5.0kg sizes, but designed for user-refilling

 

https://worldwidewalkies.blog/2018/03/10/safefill-refillable-gas-bottle-review/

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Robinhood - 2021-12-17 9:08 PM

Brian Kirby - 2021-12-17 7:04 PM

As an aside, I was disappointed not to be able to find a separate technical catalogue listing the various engine, chassis, gearbox, and equipment options, their weights, and their costs.

..I think you'll need to use the following (in English)

https://weinsberg.com/fileadmin/media/mj2021-2022/cuv/carabus/pdf/kta-weinsberg-2021-2022-cuv-preisliste-carabus-en-int.pdf

possibly augmented by the more comprehensive German version:

https://weinsberg.com/fileadmin/media/mj2021-2022/global/service/fahrzeugkauf/kataloge-preislisten/preislisten/cuv/kta-weinsberg-2021-2022-preisliste-cuv-de-at.pdf

Thanks Bob. That's much more informative, and the English edition seems to be what Catherine was quoting from, so I guess she already has it.

 

I still think the bit about that fresh water tank is less than explicit. What I think it means is that the MIRO is calculated with only 20 litres on board, but you can drive with the full 100 litres - providing you are happy to lose 80 kg of your payload.

 

Unfortunately, there are a number of instances of ambiguously poor translation, that being, I think one. Not really good enough when it is what one has to rely on to navigate to the actual payload that will result after choices from that impressively extensive list of options have been made. I hope Catherine is adept with spreadsheets! :-)

 

 

[John52]

Tracker - 2021-12-18 11:30 AM

We were once weighed at a roadside check point mainly for HGVs way back in the 80's

 

Apparently there were a lot more weight checks then because the HGV weight limit was 32 tons on 4 axles.

It was an easy nick - like speeding cameras today where they can clock up a lot of nicks without doing any work.

Now rhe weight limit is 44 tonnes on 6 axles - including an extra axle at the front where most of the overloads occurred (because they start loading a trailer at the front and its at the back where you get the empty space.)

So with far less overloading its not worth their while to operate the weighbriges.

[colin]

It must have been around 2000 when we where pulled in for weight and safety checks on the A30, they where pulling in all the vans, motorhomes, and caravans.

[Brian Kirby]

Hans - 2021-12-18 12:46 PM

Brian in our club motorhomes we drive whit BP light gas bottles. Polyethylene light weight. Caravans and vans , motorhomes. in two weight versions. Also used on the barbecue. You can see thru the bottle the level of liquid propane. By moving a little bit.

Hans, I have one reservation regarding these cylinders, and that is their construction. The Weinsburg CaraBus 600 DQ is a generally similar layout to our Boxstar 600 Street. (Weinsburg being a Knaus Tabbert brand.) The gas locker is located on the rear offside (LHD) corner of the van, behind the wheel arch, just inside the rear offside door.

 

I just don't trust a polyester "plastic" gas cylinder in that position. The rear corners are always vulnerable in a rear end shunt, and it seems to me that the resulting bodywork damage would be liable to pierce such a cylinder in a way that could not happen with a steel cylinder. There seems little point in fitting hose rupture valves if a piece of ruptured steel bodywork could rip the cylinder open - and I definitely wouldn't want to be in the van should that happen!

 

I doubt that anyone considered that possibility when developing these cylinders, so suspect that the risk will not have been assessed. That is me, but I wouldn't do it - even to save weight! :-)