Brian Kirby Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Hans - 2021-12-31 8:40 PM You are technical wrong. Hans, who is wrong about what, and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Derek Uzzell - 2022-01-01 8:48 AM Brian Regarding the rearwards-facing travel seat, the French video that I provided a link to earlier shows the conversion procedure from travel seats back to settee. The procedure was carried out very quickly and, even if I run the video full-screen and freeze-frame, it's still not obvious whether there's some sort of clever strengthening structure that comes into play when the rearwards-facing seatback is raised up. (I've attached another photo of the travel-seat arrangement, though this doesn't help with your seatback 'strength' concerns.) Presumably Paul knows how the settee-to-travel-seats conversion works and will have a view on how 'safe' the travel seats are likely to be. Paul's photos of the problematic screw-fixings actually relate to the hinged 'lid' of the seat base that's beneath the part of the left-hand-side settee that converts into a forwards-facing travel seat. I don't think the lid plays any real part in the settee-to-travel-seats conversion, it just allows access to whatever is in the seat base. Yes, I agree, and I also tried to get "inside" that video by running it full screen and stepping through it - but the great chump keeps standing in the way at the critical points! :-) I also tried a number of alternative presentations on the model, including Pilote's own, and could find nothing that shows the evolution from rear facing seat to side sofa in sufficient detail to be able to see how/whether that seat back is strengthened to resist the impact force of an adult passenger in a front end collision. Since this seat conversion seems to be an intrinsic part of the USP of what is, in other respects, a very clever layout, that surprised me. So, mea culpa, being the cynic that I am, I began wondering whether Pilote aren't all that convinced about it either! I also wondered about the seat belt fixings, and what they are anchored to (and whether they rely on similar "screws"!!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 The MOT check all fixing of safety belts.. And they are fixed to a real steel part of the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Hans The UK's MOT-test seat-belt requirements are stated on the image attached below. Before my Rapido motorhome was MOT-tested I always removed all the cushions from the settees from which the vehicle's two forwards-facing rear 'travel seats' could be made up. This left the motorhome with rear seat belts (attached to strong metal structures) that could be used when the travel seats had been created from the settees, but no actual seats corresponding to those belts. Consequently, because there were no seats relating to the belts when the Rapido was presented for MOT-testing, the MOT tester was not required to inspect the belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Hans - 2022-01-01 7:28 PM The MOT check all fixing of safety belts.. And they are fixed to a real steel part of the chassis. Agreed, Hans, but it was not the seat belt anchorages I was querying, but the adequacy of what appears to be merely a sheet of plywood (which might, actually, be photo veneered sheet steel or similar) forming the backrest of the seat. The seat is apparently a designated travel seat, which is why it has a seat belt. I don't know whether there is a weight restriction for the occupant of that seat that would limit its users to children, but if not, any adult of whatever weight could use it. With a passenger in a rear facing seat the majority of their protection against injury in a frontal collision has to be provided by the seat back, and the seat belt's role is only to prevent them being thrown from the seat. Were the backrest to fail on impact, the passenger would be liable to be thrown violently towards the front of the vehicle, taking the failed parts of the backrest with them, potentially into the back of the forward facing driver's/passenger's seat, with entirely avoidable and potentially catastrophic consequences for either or both seat occupants. There may well be some reinforcement of the backrest, but I can't see it in the available pictures/videos. Also, there is no visible evidence of a "cosmetic" enclosure that might conceal such reinforcement. So, as I commented, on the available evidence, that absence of reinforcement worries me. There is also no visible head restraint, although one is clearly visible for the forward facing seat in Derek's picture above.. To be blunt, the seatback looks flimsy and wholly inadequate for use as a travel seat. As a non-travel seat, fine, but not (until the presence of the, I think necessary, reinforcement is demonstrated), for use for travel. Are we sure that this is, actually, a designated travel seat (I can't see a seat belt, or anchorages, in the pictures) or are we perhaps at crossed purposes about which seat Paul was referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Regarding the loose screws, Paul said earlier In terms of the loose screws I mentioned previously, they have actually come totally out and cannot be reinserted. They don't grip. Dealership has told me to fill the holes with PVA glue and try again. One of them is the bracing for the travel seat which means we can't use the travel seat until its fixed or indeed the bench / seat that it converts into. There's no doubt that Paul's middle photo above relates to the forwards-facing travel seat as the motorhome's kitchen is visible behind the bulkhead that carries the headrest. There's also no doubt that the two seats that the settee can convert into are considered 'travel seats' nor that each seat has a 3-point seat-belt. The latter feature is highlighted in this review https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/reviews/motorhomes/details/motorhome-review-pilote-pacific-p626d-evidence/1029363 (and you'll note the comment in the last sentence). Another plus is the neat way the lounge backrests ping into position, secured by magnetic strips – no more arriving on site and finding a pile of cushions on the floor! And, if you plan on carrying passengers, the nearside bench can also convert into a pair of travel seats with three-point seatbelts – one forward-facing and one rearward-facing. The conversion is simple and requires no extra cushions (two settee cushions are left over) but we’d like to see more metalwork in the seat structure. I don't recall any passenger weight/size restriction for the 'convertible' travel seats of my Rapido motorhome, nor any instructions on how to carry out the conversion. The end of the longer settee lacked support for the seat cushion as a consequence of the conversion process and (as I never intended to carry passengers in the Rapido's lounge) I extended the top of the seat base to provide the necessary support. Before selling the Rapido I thought I should check what the conversion involved and discovered that the extra backrest needed for UK-offside travel-seat had the fittings for the headrest on the wrong sides, making height adjustment of the headrest extremely difficult. I never did work out how the UK-nearside travel-seat's headrest could be height-adjusted. Hidden behind a wooden panel was a metal framework with springs in it into which the headrest's uprights plugged, but I feared that if I pushed the uprights too far into the frame, there was every chance that I would not be able to get them out again. The 640F model began to be marketed in 2013 and I suspect that buyers must have complained about this headrest adjustment difficulty as 2016 model-year 640Fs had no metal frame or headrest height adjustment for the UK-nearside seat, just a simple padded headrest fixed high above the backrest cushion in case one carried a basketball player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Thanks for that, Derek. Clearly, having looked at Paul's picture of the forward facing passenger seat, and then tried to understand the importance of the screws, I've side-tracked my-self onto its rear facing counterpart - which was not the subject of Paul's complaint. I still can't properly see what the panel in Paul's photo is supposed to be screwed onto. I assume a hinge of some sort, as there seem to be six screws involved and it appears to be the hinged seat base access to the locker below. But, on the rear facing seat, Peter's "but we’d like to see more metalwork in the seat structure" is very Delphic, isn't it? I wonder what he really thought? Have you asked him - in confidence, of course! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Although there's plenty of online guidance about the type of seat-belts fitted to a motorhome's 'designated travel seats', with emphasis on the security/strength of the seat-belt mounting points, I can't find anything about controlling/testing the design and construction of the seats themselves. So an orange-box screwed to a motorhome's floor with a bit of foam on top for comfort and a bare plywood backrest would appear to be acceptable provided that this 'seat' has a sturdily mounted 3-point belt. (I interpret Peter's comment as "the structure of these seats lacks robustness and is unlikely to provide adequate accident-protection for people using them", but I doubt Pilote would be happy with a review that said that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Derek Uzzell - 2022-01-03 9:25 AM......................... (I interpret Peter's comment as "the structure of these seats lacks robustness and is unlikely to provide adequate accident-protection for people using them", but I doubt Pilote would be happy with a review that said that.) Quite!! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Paul may be interested in an "Our motorhome" article in the latest edition of MMM Magazine (February 2022). This article deals with a 2020-model Pilote P696D (rather than Paul's shorter P626D) and the final page (Page120) lists several fairly significant conversion-related faults. (bed, oven ignition, EHU battery charging, radio/sat/nav, radio aerial, etc.) The motorhome was purchased from a dealership at Newark (presumably SMC Motorhomes) who seem to have done their best to address the problems when the motorhome's owner was able to take the vehicle to Newark. The final paragraph reads "This has highlighted the issue of buying from a dealer a long way from home - 300 miles in our case. Our local Pilote dealer declined to do warranty work on a motorhome that it had not sold". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.S Posted January 5, 2022 Author Share Posted January 5, 2022 Thanks All, I will keep you updated with progress. The advice provided has been much appreciated and should help me in my negotiations with the dealership. kind regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Slow draining sinks. It could be a matter of construction crud down the tubes being caught in the corrugated tube. My first approach would be using a plumber’s plunger GENTLY on the plug hole and see if a bit of push and pull of water frees anything Drain cleaner left to soak before washing through might help to soften the crud , repeat with plunger WITH CARE. Most motor home Plumbing is plastic but joints vary between push fit, welded fit or screw fit (hose clip) Some mhome sinks have a waste trap which looks like a flat circular plastic tub, about 50 mm deep. The bottom unscrews, and with luck, a diamond will fall out lost by previous owners wedding ring. Reds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 tonyishuk - 2022-01-06 5:53 PM ...and with luck, a diamond will fall out lost by previous owners wedding ring. Very unlikely seem as it is a brand new MH! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 You never know... I remember reading a story (years ago) where the owner of a new Italian car reported massive vibration when the vehicle was being driven. A check showed that one of the front wheels was well out of balance and rebalancing was carried out. The next day the vehicle's owner came back to the car dealership complaining that the problem had recurred - the wheel's tyre was removed and the wallet of one of the Italian factory workers was found inside the tyre. One of my Golf GTi cars was forever going back to the VW dealership in Gloucester for under-warranty work. On one visit I asked the service manager "Have any of your mechanics said they had lost any tools?". He replied "No" and I replied "That's good as I'll be able to keep the brand-new spanner that fell out from under the dashboard when I drove home after my car was last worked on here." But as another owner of a new P626D complained 5 months ago of the 'sink' being slow to drain, it may be assumed that this is a characteristic of this Pilote model, rather than something unusual about Paul's motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 I suppose the revealing answer to a simple question might give a clue. The simple question? How far is it from the washbasin to the waste tank into which it drains. The important criterion is the length of horizontal travel once the washbasin drain gets to floor level. A second question is what type of waste drain pipe has been fitted? That is to say plumbing grade PVC (or equivalent) with solvent welded, compression, or push fit joints, ribbed flexible pipe (and whether smooth or ribbed internally), or "glorified hosepipe"? The point being that the former should be smooth and undistorted from end to end, while the latter will be the most prone to kinks and flattening. Ribbed flexible being, for obvious reasons, the most prone to accumulating "crud". After all, when the basin is filled and the plug removed, there should be an initial surge of water down the drain with an (approximately) initial 600mm head driving it, which should shift most of any loose material to the end of the pipe. So, knowing the horizontal distance and the pipe type will be instrumental in diagnosis of potential problem areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.S Posted June 2, 2022 Author Share Posted June 2, 2022 Hi All, Apologies for the very late update on my warranty work concerns.. To recap I was having trouble getting warranty work undertaken on my motorhome because of the distance involved between myself and the dealership where I purchased the vehicle and the poor quality of the work undertaken there. The warranty was successfully transferred to Davan in Somerset. Unfortunetly the good news ends there. They have had the vehcile in and repaired and / or attempted to repair some of the problems. They did not repair everything on that visit and I am now being told that I have to wait 3.5 months to get the remainder of the problems repaired together and the ones they said they had repaired on the first visit but actually either didn't or have only partially fixed the problem. I am being advised that because I didn't purcase the vehicle from them that I am not their priority which is frustrating given they agreed to take the warranty work on. One of the new problems is that the main habitation window does not close when opened, or its a fiddle to get it to close. Davan advised to keep it shut which means a lack of air flow during the summer months. I have tried to escalate within Davan and via Pilote but they are simply not interested. Obviously this is boom time for them and after sales service is a major inconvenience. My question - is 3.5 months a reasonable time to wait for warranty work and if not is there any regulating body I can contact for advice. I have tried Citizens Advice and they weren't a lot of help. I have searched the word warranty so much since I purchsed this motorhome that I can now actually spell it correctly. Apologies for the typo in my original post :) Be grateful for your thoughts. kind regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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